Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I've got the article here on my desk.
    
    It makes no mention of whether it can deal with non-Yamaha sys-ex.
    I can't think of why it shouldn't, but then who knows? It does
    say it's used for Yamaha "X" products. (RX-n, DX-n, QX-n)
    
    A couple things don't impress me. It can't hold the full contents
    of a QX-5 dump on one side of a disk. Maximum on a QD is 59.9K and
    the QX-5 will hold 128K. It will also only hold 1 QX-7(21) dump
    per side. This tells me I'm changing discs between every song. No
    problem in the studio, hell on the road. A unit like the MC-500,
    may not have more memory, but the architecture allows you to store
    more songs on a disk and have them available for fast access. A
    QX7(21) can hold three songs (up to the RAM limit of 48K, natch),
    then it's reload time. The MC-500 can do better. An MC-500 owner
    can tell you how much better.
    
    What's your problem with tape? I spent $20 bucks on a radio-shack
    data cassette player and it ended *all* my tape storage problems.
    I found my audio cassette decks to be too much hassle....
    
    Edd

    Is that REAL!  60K on one side?  By god, it sounds like it has less
    area density than an RX01!  Who was the crazy nut that designed
    that thing?
    
    Seriously, my experience substantiates that claim (you have to read
    both sides of the disk for most S-10 sounds) but I find that hard
    to believe.  3.5"s give you 20 times the capacity.  That is the
    same factor as stepping up from a 3.5" to a 20 meg hard disk.
    
    On the constructive and appropriate side I think I have seen a 3.5"
    peripheral like this from some (obscure?) company.  I would say ``look
    really hard before you buy.'' It sounds like the storage technology you
    are getting with the Yamaha is vintage 1975. You should be able
    to get something orders of magnitude better...  Heck, you could
    probably even buy an el-cheapo computer for not much more and have
    factors more storage capability and piles of others functions as
    well.
    
    Steph

	RE .1 (Edd)

	The article *does* say it can be used with other manufacturers.  They
tried out a CZ-1 and commented that Casio doesn't always use standard formats
(then again, who does?).

	The storage quantity issue is one I hadn't thought of.  To be honest,
I really don't know just how much I'd need for the type of stuff I do.  My
MSQ holds less data than a QX, but I've not stored more than one song on it at a
time to find out just how much my simple arrangements would use.  Still, I guess
one should not consider the present, so much, as to how much one will need in
the long run.

	I'm certainly not in the market for the unit right now, as I've spent 
all I planned on spending for this year on MIDI (I know, we've heard that 
before... ).  It appears, in the light of Edd's and Steph's comments, I'd do
better to watch for either a good computer or a dedicated sequencer with
disk-storage.

	What's my problem with tape?  I have tried two or three different 
machines over the past two years and have never had consistent success.
Admittedly, I have never spent more than an hour adjusting and tinkering to
*really* try to get it to work, but then again, my time is too short to
have to do that every time I want something move from tape to unit or 
vise-versa.

	Is  a data cassette player *that* much better, in your experience?
I know they're made for that kind of thing, but what makes them different from
an average audio recorder?

	Thanks for the comments, guys.

	Dan

    
    
    Je suis looking at this problem aussie. One of the many things that
    really impressed me at Dave Drehers was the way he could wip a disck
    out of the box and select a song and play it back in seconds. You
    ever tried doing that with a C90? So I had a look at the MDF1, also
    uses the same disks as my Akai S700 but is not really flexible enough
    to do it like "Dave".
    
    So I looked at the MC900 but it wasn't as easy peasy to use as the
    good old QX5. So I spoke to the guy who takes all my money of me
    and he reckons the Qx3 will be the answer to mine and every maidens
    prayer. I will tell all when I get one to try. But the MDF was a
    deninite No-No

    Oops, my issue is from January. not June. I'll pass on the
    compatability issue. You should know best...
    
    Anyhow, here's what your faced with size wise....
    
    Edd
    *****************************************************************

    Product		Bulk		Bytes/bulk	Bulk/side
    
    DX7, TX7 TF1	1 voice		 163		app 370
    		       32 voice		4104		     14
    
    TX7, TF1		1 performance	102		    570
    			64    "		4K	             14
    
    DX27(s), 100	1 voice		101		    570
    DX21		24  "           4K		     14
        
    DX7-II		64 Voice &	9K		      3
			32 perf.    

    FB01		1 voice		 139		    425
			48  "		6K		      7
			1 config	 171		    350
			16 "		2632		     22

    RX11		Pat/Song	8K		      7
      21		   "            4K		     14
	
    QX7,21		Sequence	48K max		      1

    QX5			  "	        128K max       won't fit
                                                       on one QD	

                                                              

I can't believe a QD doesn't even hold 64K of memory.  This can't be the
case.  Anyone confirmed this?

Todd.

I have  used an MDF1  successfully with:

	-YAMAHA TX8IZ, QX7, RX-17
	-ROLAND alpha JUNO
	-ENSONIQ ESQ-1 both internal voices and sequences 
	 (although I prefer to use the mirage for this
	  as 3.5 disks are much cheaper).
	

Does any one know where I can pick up some 2.8" disks for cheap?  
The cheapest I can find them for is $4 a disk for Yamaha disks (PROSOUND
Col. Springs,Co). They want like $6 for KORG 2.8"!!!!!!!
I have been keeping an eye out in KEYBOARD for some mail order company
to start selling them but have seen nothing yet.  

Mark


	

    
    
   The Chapest quick disks I have seen have been the Akai labelled ones
    which retail in the U.K. at 20 Pounds for 10. Also Sharp apparantly
    used these disks on one of their office micro's . You could check
    them out for a price.
    
    
    						PAUL.

	Just a few comments;

	I FINALLY DID A SUCCESSFUL TAPE SAVE AND VERIFY!!!!!!!!!!!  I hooked up
the MSQ (and later, my TR707) to a Y-cord into both channels of a TEAC home-type
cassette deck, carefully monitored the meters, and voila!  And there was much
rejoicing (yay.).  It was so simple, I can't figure out why I've always had
such problems, except that I was either using defective equipment (an $18
cassette recorder) or inappropriate levels.

	Regarding a request for cheaper quick disks, there is now a company
advertising quick disks for as low as $28/box (if you buy 10) and as high as
$35 a box.  That's a 30% savings over Roland's price.  Check out the
classified section of KEYBOARD magazine.  I no longer have the need for that
kind of thing, but I thought you might appreciate the info.

	Dan

    But can you do a successfull LOAD?????
    
    Edd

	Hey, let me revel in one miracle at a time!

	Dan

    Just curious, as a successfull VERIFY does not guarantee data
    integrity. Well, kinda. They use a check-sum scheme....
    
    Chances are you're OK,
    
    Save important data in 26 different places.
    
    Edd
    

    My MDF-1 bit the big one last weekend. It still loads, but it won't
    save anything. To load it, I had to disassemble the drive & add an
    extra pad under the arm that presses on the drive head. This is the
    kicker, I feel that the read/write head is bad, so I call Yamaha, they
    say, replace the drive, the repacement part is $216.00!!!!. So I called
    around (Thanks DECMS, you came thru for me) & I put an Indian Valley
    MIDI disk drive on plastic (Brad at Thourobred music in Florida
    $385.00) and he says it'll be here by Friday.

    I noticed that the MDF-1 (It is ripped apart on top of my rack at the
    moment) has no concept of track positions on the disk, it reads the
    data as a single spiral from the outside moving in (no steps at all).
    This leads me to believe that the disk is nothing more than a disk
    based cassette deck with a digital interface. This might be why it can
    only handle 59.9 K bytes. This also leads me to believe that I might
    be able to substitue a regular cassette read/write head in place of
    the existing one. I'll try this as soon as I get all of my data off
    of the old disks (I have 23 of the 2.8 inch disks). It was quite a
    conversation piece up at the ski resort, and I was thankful that it
    failed during our last 2 sets, versus at the beginning of the week.
    It currently can read the outer edges of the disk, but if there is too
    much data (ie. data is at the inner tracks of the disk) it can't read
    them and proudly displays an 'E'. After 10 or 12 tries, I can get them
    to read, but this is not a good thing to have to go thru when playing
    live. (Note: 'E' stands for error). The drive won't be used again until
    I get my replacement (I do have songs backed up to tape, but a 3 to 4
    minute sequencer load to either the MMT-8 or ESQ-1 is not my idea of
    a good time). I'll let everyone know how the repairs turn out.

    I'd guess that my MDF-1 is 2 1/2 years old (I bought it used). It
    actually has never given me any trouble, I only wish Yamaha would sell
    me the parts instead of an entire assembly (the R/W head shouldn't be
    more that $10.00 to $20.00!!!!!)

							    Jens

    
    Re: .13
    
    Yamaha probably OEMs the drive and as far as they are concerned
    it's a replacable assembly.  If you think that's funny, wait till
    the lasers in CD players start wearing out 10 years from now....

    I'd guess that you are right, but, to me, it's like having to swap
    car engines when all you need are new spark plugs (I wouldn't be
    surprized if this happened one day also).

    What I should do is photograph the whole session, & if the fix works,
    see if I can get it published. I'll bet I'm not the first to have the
    head wear out.

    The MDF-1 is actually a quite simple and nice unit, I really like it,
    but at the moment I'm unhappy with Yamaha.

							Jens

    
    Actually, why not take a good look at the drive, find out who actually
    made it, then contact them about head replacement?  
    
    BTW the quick disk thing was set up specifically to dump the entire
    disk into a 64K RAM in one fell swoop.  Some 8 bit microprocessors
    can't address more than 64K of memory.  With quick disks, you get
    quick access (one dump and then you run out of RAM) at the price
    of low storage density.  The price thing is due to the fact that
    the format never took off; I've yet to see anything *except* musical
    gear that use the things.  Supply and demand, doncha know....