Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Hi, Jeff, Karl from AZ here.
    
    I have a sync box and 8track Fostex setup. However, it sounds as
    if your problem is that the 8track is poorly adjusted; the level
    being recorded doesn't match the displayed input level. You might
    try just a single sinewave-type note, comparing the VU level off
    tape compared to the input signal. 
    
    best. karl moeller

    I had a similar problem with speed up/slow down when trying to sync
    from a TR707 to a tape deck.  Signal was not the problem - but digital
    feedback was. 

    When the tape sync lines were connected and the 707 was NOT syncing to
    tape, the problem appeared.  Also happened when the 707 was set to
    external clock and was still connected to tape sync lines.  Real weird. 

    Good luck - I've not tried syncing my ESQ to tape.  Let us know
    what happens.

8^)

    
    
    Hello Chaps Remember Me ?
    
    I guess these things are sent to try some of us. I have been syncing
    to a Fostex M80 recently without any trouble. I have just coupled
    the synch out of MY Qx5 straight to track 8 (no Mixing but with
    Dolby C on) of the deck and it all worked no problem. The only minor
    glitch which I guess was inexperience was when playing back I started
    the sequence and then the Deck. When the sequencer picked up the
    first taped tone it blobbed a beat and then stopped again, waiting
    for the clock signals. I have cured this by starting the Deck first
    and then pressing "GO" on the sequencer. 
                    
    				Paul.
    

    I also have encountered a problem using the FSK on the Ensoniq
    SQ-80.
    
    I have the SQ-80 audio output going directly into a channel on the
    4-track.   When I plug the tape sync out of the 4-track into 
    the tape in of the SQ-80, I get an annoying buzz.  Unplug it,
    and the noise goes away.
    
    The SQ-80 has a 3-prong type power cord. I've lifted the ground
    by putting a 3-prong-to-2-prong adapter on the SQ-80's plug.
    The 4-track (Yamaha MT1X) has a two-pronged wall bug type thing).
    
    Both electrical plugs are plugged into the same power strip.
    
    Any ideas on the cause or the cure?
    
    	db
    
    p.s.  It's been my experience that getting noise out of a system
          is a constant and royal pain and a tremendous consumer of my
    	  time.  It almost seems like a standard step in my "setup 
    	  procedure".
    
    	  Does anyone else have regular noise problems like this.  What
    	  things can I do to avoid noise?  I use good cords, all my
    	  stuff is plugged into the same power strip, I use ground lifts
    	  on most of the 3-prong stuff.
    
    	  And yet I still ALWAYS have problems.

    Well, not too much interest about this problem, but I found a solution
    and I'll describe it just in case someone else ends up with the
    same problem.  
    
    I tend to think that anyone using the tape sync feature will have 
    this problem (noise).  Even if you think you don't, you might
    want to try comparing the noise level when the tape sync connection
    is made with when it is not (i.e. hook it up for tape sync and
    then just plug and unplug the tape sync cord and compare the
    noise level).
    
    Anyway the solution is a trick I hadn't thought to try even though
    it has often worked for me in other noise situations in the past.
    
    When I pull the tape sync cord slightly out of the sync out port
    of my recorder (it's an RCA plug), the noise goes away and yet
    tape sync still works.
    
    	db

    Sounds like some strange problem relating to grounding. I've been doing
    this sort of thing between my MMT-8 and TEAC #144 for quite some time
    (I plug the tape out of the MMT-8 to track 4 on the Teac, and connect
    the tape in on the MMT-8 to the CUE out on the Teac). When I record, I
    usually put in an instrument playing to another track so I can hear
    about where I am within a song. I record the MIDI sync at about 0 db,
    and when I play back, I set the cue mixers for 1, 2 and 3 to 'no
    output', and set the 4 cue level to half (50%) level. I've had no
    trouble with this. I like to record the drums on my MT-32 seperately
    from the rest of the song (it sounds nice with a touch of Exciter
    added), then seperate the Bass instrument and everything else onto
    a seperate track. I've also used it where I turn the 4 track into a 3
    track (for vocals, guitar, etc.) and only supplied the MIDI sync to
    the sequencer to play back (It's interesting when you select the wrong
    song during playback). Seems to work well & the DOLBY B seems to have
    no effect (I can't turn it off on the #144).

								Jens

>    < Note 863.5 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "So What? BEEG Deal!" >
>    I tend to think that anyone using the tape sync feature will have 
>    this problem (noise).
 
    I use a Yamaha YMC-10 unit into track 8 of a Fostex A8LR.. I have
    NEVER noticed ANY side effects from using tape sync.. it's its own
    little circuit, and does not affect the other tape outs going to
    the patchbay and thence to the mixer(s).  The MIDI feed to the YMC10
    comes from a SONUS MIDIswitcher.  The MIDI feed FROM the YMC10 goes
    directly into the KX88 MIDI in port.
       
>        When I pull the tape sync cord slightly out of the sync out port
>    of my recorder (it's an RCA plug), the noise goes away and yet
>    tape sync still works.
    
    Well, the outer rim of an RCA plug is the ground, the center is
    hot.. possible for you to set up a 'floating' ground ?  Like a long
    Lo-Z mic cord, two grounds.. one end-to-end, the other grounded
    only at one end ?
    
    re .4 (Brad I think) .. grounding probs.  I have only one problem,
    that's a 'pop' in my system when my refrigerator cycles on and off.
    That's it.  I use several AC power strips, all going to the SAME
    wall outlet.  I use no ground lifts on my gear, which is mostly
    rackmounted (in a steel rack), yet I have no ground buzz/hum.. and
    that rack is FULL.  Just lucky ?
    
    karl

    	It sounds to me that what you are experiencing is the dreaded
    ***GROUND LOOP***. The best way to cure this is with single point
    ground for the whole system and only one path from each piece to
    that ground point. To accomplish this you may have to modify some
    of your patch cords so that the ground (shield) is only connected
    at one end, the shield will still do its job
    						
                                                FE
    

    Naw, Karl, it wasn't me, but I'll throw in 2� anyway.

    A friend of mine who has an ESQ-1 stopped over yesterday, and was
    having the same problem.  We went thru the same procedure as outlined
    in this topic, and he *still* had the trouble.

    Makes me think that there's something fishy about the (E)SQ.  This
    silly thing wouldn't be expecting a *stereo* pin (3 leads), would it? 

    I've used sync with my 144 and a 707 with no noise at all.  I've never
    tried using my HR.  And the only thing in my system that's got a
    ground is my OB-Xa.

-b

    > We went thru the same procedure as outlined in this topic and he
    > *still* had the trouble.
    
    If you're friend is experiencing the exact same symptoms (I.E. removing
    the tape sync connection removes the noise), it's hard to imagine
    that he doesn't have the same problem.  Thus it's hard to imagine
    why my fix doesn't work.
    
    Are you quite sure that you removed the ground connection?
    
    I'm not an expert at this stuff, but I'm pretty sure that you could
    only duplicate my procedure if one end of the plug was an RCA type
    pin.  My MT1x (4-track) has RCA plugs, but that's pretty unusual.
    Most stuff is, obviously, phone plugs.  I don't think that 
    pulling a phone plug halfway out won't lift the ground.
    
    If you knew all this, don't consider it an insult of YOUR intelligence,
    but rather a "reflection" of mine as I am incredibly illiterate when
    it comes to electronics (this despite the fact that my father is
    in "Who's who" for his accomplishments as an electrical design
    engineer).
    
    	db
    
    p.s. At the risk of contradicting myself, there is one experience I've
         had where pulling a phone plug halfway out had an effect on
    	something (an effect different than pulling the plug ALL the way
    	out that is).
    
    	I had this ancient (like 1940's) Revere 7" reel-to-reel MONO
    	tape player/recorder.  It had a PA mode where the microphone input was
    	amplified and output to the builtin 7" elliptical speaker.
    
        This thing was effectively  my first guitar amp, but it couldn't
    	go very loud and the sound was way too thin for a guitar amp
    	(no harmonics).
    
    	One day I plugged in and all of a sudden it became this loud
        incredible sounding Marshall-like amp.  I eventually discovered
    	that the guitar cord was only plugged in halfway which I discovered
    	(through an obvious experiment) was what made the difference.
    
    	Lots of guitar players with Fenders and Marshalls admired my
    	Revere and wanted to buy it.  It really had incredibly smooth
    	distortion and unlike the Fenders and Marshalls, you didn't have
    	to go quite as loud to get it.

   re: .7
    
>>    < Note 863.5 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "So What? BEEG Deal!" >
>>    I tend to think that anyone using the tape sync feature will have 
>>    this problem (noise).
 
>    I use a Yamaha YMC-10 unit into track 8 of a Fostex A8LR.. I have
>    NEVER noticed ANY side effects from using tape sync..
    
    Karl,
    
    I was speaking of the "tape sync feature" with respect to the
    ESQ-1.
    
    	db
    
    
    

   It's not an ESQ-1 problem.  ESQ -> Tascam 244 @ -5db has worked fine
   for several months.

   It makes an *ugly* buzz if the track volume isn't turned off.  Duh.

   Happy Monday,
   Dave

    I think we've clearly established that it's a ground loop problem
    which means that it's not so much an "ESQ problem" as a problem
    that you can have WITH an ESQ depending on what else you've got
    it plugged into and how it's grounded.
    
    	db