Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Gee, that's really neat.  But who's got software?  As far as I know
    (just from Len's notes), there isn't any decent sequencer software
    for the standard Amiga yet.  Or if there is, it's a recent development.
    And how long has the standard Amiga been around?
    
    It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that s/w ing.
    
    Rodney M.
    

    Yes, the Amiga has been pretty much overlooked by the Music software
    creators.  Judging by what was seen at last month's NAMM show, it
    would seem that the industry is standardizing on Mac, and to a lesser
    extent, Atari ST (sorta like VHS vs. Beta in VCRs).   The IBM PC
    has been getting some attention from some of the major software
    vendors so you can't quite count it out.
    
    The Amiga however is barely even mentioned, although Commodore claims
    that there are software packages being developed.
    
    I have a catalog of music software.  I've described the catalog
    in note #715.  Here's what's listed as available for the Amiga:
    
    Music for non-musicians:
    
    	Instant Music
    
    Music Notation systems:
    
    	Deluxe Music Construction Set
        
    Sequencers:
    
    	Music Studio
	Soundscape ProMIDI studio
    	Texture (sorta like a drum machine - deals with "patterns"

    The list of Mac software would be impossible type in.  The list
    of Atari software is only a fraction of what is available on the
    Mac but it is pretty complete (there's at least one or two of every
    general class of music program), and as I say, there seems to be
    significant interest in the Atari such that more stuff can be expected.
    
    	db

    I could list the music software availible for the amiga now..but it
    would take me all night..
     
    Im glad I got a Amiga 500
    

Yo, bro!

Waddyaknow, another Amigan musician with a Kawai! Small-world-isn't-it
department, what?

I had an Amiga 1000 since the dawn of time, and traded up to an Amiga 2000HD
last year. LOVE that hard drive.

BTW, did you know that Fish Disk 332 has a K1 Editor? I haven't used it much
yet, as I haven't verified that it won't muck up the stored data in a K1-II,
but it looks pretty nice for a freebie. I was going to go for the MidiQuest
universal editor/librarian, but after I recover from purchase of a 4-track...

My sequencer at the moment is Soundscape, the ancestor of Bars and Pipes. It's a
real sore point with me that the author chose to issue no updates to Soundscape,
but instead produced a new product to which I have no rights whatsoever. If and
when I upgrade, I plan on taking that into account.

Anyway, always nice to meet another Amigo.

Cheers,
	Bob

>                       <<< Note 753.3 by FASDER::AHERB >>>
>                                     -< . >-
>
>    I could list the music software availible for the amiga now..but it
>    would take me all night..
>     
>    Im glad I got a Amiga 500
 
    Aegis Sonix
    AudioLink, Bar&Pipes, Deluxe MIDI INTERFACE for the Amiga,Deluxe 
    Music COnstruction Set,  Digital Studio, E-Z FM Syntheiszer, Hperchord, 
    Instant Music, Keyboard Controlled Sequencer V1.6 (3.0 now),
    and KCS 3.0 Level 2, M, MIDI Magic, MIDI Music Manager, MIDI
    Recording Studio, MIDI Sample Wrench V1.3, Master Tracks Pro, MIDIVU
    , Music Modules, Music Mouse, Music-X 1.1 Music-X Jr., Pixound,
    Pro-MIDI INTERFACE for the AMIGA 500/1000/2000, QuasarSound,
    Quest I: Texture, Quest II: Texture, SoundScape Pro MIDI Studio,
    Synthia II, Synthia Professional, The Hyperchord Music Expoloraton Kit,
    Tiger Cub, 4-OP deluxe, C-ZAR, CZ Rider, Caged Artist, DWEL,
    DX Heaven, ESQ-1 Caged Artist, ESQquapade, Kawai K-3 Caged Artist,
    Kawai K-5, Kawai-1 Caged Artist, oberheim Matrix 6/1000 Caged Artist,
    PCM-70 Caged Artist, Roland D-50 CagedArtist, Roland MT-52 Caged etc.,
    Sound Quest CZ Master Librarian,, Sound Quest D-10 Master Librarian,
    Sound Quest D-50 Master Librarian, Sound Quest DX Master Librarian,,
    Sound Quest Generic Master Librarian,, Sound Quest SQ-80 Master Librarian,
    Sound Quest TX802 Master Librarian, Sound Quest TX81Z Master Librarian,
    Yamaha MT-52 Caged Artist, A-Drum, Drum Studio, Aegis SoundTrax
    I and II, Four Disk Set, Game Play, Hot & Cool Jazz, It's Only Rock and
    Roll, Big Dollar Synth, Composer's SoundLib, Composer'sSoundLib
    IFF Portable Vol1,2,3,4,5,6,Composer'sSoundLib Mimetics' Exclusive
    (VOl. 1,2), DX Voices, Fat Sounds, Instruments Voice Didks,
    MT-32 Voices, Mellotron, Modern Percussives, Real Brass, Symphony SOngs,	
    The Digital Syntheiszer Disk, The Grab Bag Disk, The Orchestral Disk,
    , The Rock Disk, Aegis AudioMaster II, Audiotools for the Amiga,
    Aural Intervals (ear training), copyist apprentice, copyist DTP,
    Copyist Level I, Copyist Pro, Dr. Drums, Dr. Keys,
    Bach SOngbook, EnCopy, Guitar Chords, MIDI-Mice, Performance,
    Real-Time Sound Processor, Sound Efffects, Sound Lab Amiga, Utilities #1, 
    Audio Digitizer, DNA Music, Fractal Music, Interanl Sounds Kit, Mindlight 7,
    Multi-media kit, MusicBox A, B, Pattern Splatter, Protein Music,
    RXMix Rules for Tools, Waveform Easel.
    Only took 10 minutes (cf. AC's Guide to the Commodore Amiga Fall/Winter 
    90/91
Tom

Any opion on the best sequencer for the Amiga???

Is there one that ranks up there with Performer for the Mac???

I'm thinking of getting an Amiga but I want to know the quality of what's
available before I take the plunge!!

John

I've been considering upgrading from my current sequencer (Soundscape) for
various reasons, so I've been watching the available entries myself.

AmigaWorld ran a pretty good review of sequencers a few months back. If you
don't have access to the issue and want a rundown, let me know. The ones I
recall were MasterTracks Pro, Dr. T's KCS, Bars and Pipes, and (oh damn!)
some others I can't recall simply because you asked! There are also "cut-down"
versions of some of the "pro-quality" packages.

I should note that one "bad experience" I had with Soundscape is that no
upgrades were *ever* issued; the reason it's relevant is that the author also
wrote Bars and Pipes, which is essentially the upgrade to Soundscape which
never came. Since it's a "new" package, though, I get squat. I'm not
recommending that anyone *not* consider Bars and Pipes, but personally I now
explore the "future support" aspect of any package on which I intend to base a
lot of "work."

Naturally, I'll be watching responses to your note from folks who actually
*have* one of the sequencers I'm considering!

Cheers,
	Bob

     I recommend Bars & Pipes. A new version Bars & Pipes Professional
     is in the works and I have been informed I will have an upgrade
     opportunity.  According to Amiga World (but not the B & P flyer)
     the upgrade cost will be $100 and the original B & P will drop
     from list $299 to list $199, with pro coming in at $399.
     Currently B & P sells for about $180 mail order.
     
     The pro version will integrate notation, midi track mixer more
     sysex etc.
     
     RE: upgrades/soundscape etc:
     
     I understand being wary of developers who don't seem to treat there
     customers well, but I also recommend judging software and software
     companies on current abilities. FWIW, Blue Ribbon Soundworks, the
     company producing B & P, appears to be maturing into a professional
     software company that helped win the 1996 Olympics for Atlanta.  I
     don't always blame adults for the poor behavior of their teenage
     years.
     
     Dave
     
     

    DIR/KEY=SEQUENCER (or SOFTWARE) will turn up other notes of interest.
    
    I own MasterTracks Pro (keyword MTP?) and run it on (gasp!) an Atari
    1040ST.  If it did notation, I would rave.  As it stands, I'm simply a
    very satisfied customer.  Excellent software, and a very consistent
    U/I.
    
+b

Re .8:

As I'd indicated, although I intend to be appropriately careful with purchase
of my next sequencer, I haven't excluded Bars and Pipes *automatically,* nor did
I recommend that anyone else do so. In fact, I imagine that I would find it
very attractive, given that it apparently continues and builds on the
"interconnecting tools" approach which is what I liked about Soundscape. I
simply believe that caution this time around is not a bad idea.

Re B&P "Pro:"

There are a couple of things I'd be interested in knowing:

- Has the interface library used to build the tools been published, as it was
with Soundscape?

- How decent is the notation aspect of the new "Pro" version? IOW, is it
slapdash and "good enough" for casual use, or is it suitable for heavy-duty use?


I'm thinking about MasterTracks Pro and KCS II as top candidates, as well as
B&P. One thing I'm thinking about as well is eventual use of a SMPTE synch box;
the fact that Dr. T's markets one in tandem with its software may be a
consideration.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
	Bob

> Has the interface library used to build the tools been published, as it was
>with Soundscape?

Yes. Rules for Tools - list around $50 includes "lots of" example code.
I don't have it so I can't really verify/comment.

> How decent is the notation aspect of the new "Pro" version? IOW, is it
>slapdash and "good enough" for casual use, or is it suitable for heavy-duty use?

I don't know, it isn't out yet. The original version has a hybrid
staff/piano role display (in addition to a regular piano role display)
that is well integrated. I don't think the new version will feel like
an afterthought at least.  

I think that B & P works with the KCS interface (don't quote 
me though ;-) ). 

I have seen a few comparison charts in the last few months in various
magazines. I don't remember which magazine said what anymore but I believe
KCS gets good marks for power and bad marks for interface and docs.
MTP gets good marks for interface & bad marks for being Amiga unfriendly.
That is, I think MTP does not multitask and does not do screen updates
as well as it should.  I really should check my facts first... but that
would be breaking the notes tradition, no?  ;-)


BTW there is no need to apologize or clarify your position on 
being cautious re: B & P.  It is *very* good advice to check out a
company as well as the actual software. DEC counts on this sort
of thing and wins customers because of it. 

Dave

I believe the article referred to in .11 which gives KCS superior "power" and
MT Pro "interface," is the Feb. AmigaWorld sequencer review. Unfortunately,
though the review is excellent in many respects, the author does use *some*
somewhat vague and subjective terms in his recommendations. For instance, the
same reviewer prefers to use B&P for "fun" projects, since he finds its
approach "distracting." Also, no specific explanation is given for what he means
by "power" in this context.

I think the author has some preferred approach to sequencing, which is fine; I
also *believe* that what he calls "power" refers to KCS II's more ambitious
efforts in the area of "controlled randomizing" of musical parameters. That may
be far less important to some than the ability to perform graphic editing, which
the author considers separately from "power." I think readers have to take such
judgements with a bucket or so of salt, and concentrate on the more quantifiable
aspects of the review, such as the feature list, which is excellent.

If the B&P public interface is *anything* like that of Soundscape (which I find
more than likely), B&P should qualify as the *most* powerful of sequencers,
since it is virtually infinitely expandable. I consider Todor Fay's approach
to sequencing comparable in many ways to Unix's approach to operating systems:
the combination of "tools" and "pipes" leads to a truly rich and open
environment. The only reason I can think of that his approach has not become a
standard is the *lack* of windowing, icons, and multitasking on the I-word's
machine! (I wonder if B&P is slated for any ports?)

Reviews can only offer so much "feel" for a sequencer's strengths and
weaknesses. If anyone has experience on Amiga sequencers which they'd like to
share, it would be most welcome. (Comparisons by users of more than one package
are *most* welcome!)

Cheers,
	Bob

    
    
    Time once again for my standard recommendation for MUSIC-X. After
    nearly two years I am still thrilled with it's abilities. 
    
    Re. Bars and Pipes. Being a former Soundscape owner it bothered
    me a little to finally learn why Soundscape never progressed, but
    thats a personal problem.. The only drawbacks I found with B&P
    were                            
    
     1. - The screens were a little to busy for my taste
    
     2. Does not appear to accept sysex messages. Music-x can record
    sysex into a sequence - or use the integrated patch librarian.
           
                                              
     Music-X excels in keyboard mapping. It is amazing how much can
    be triggered from the keyboard.
    
    The various tools for B&P seem impressive.
    
    Both Music-X and Bars & Pipes have Demo's available on the Network.
    Try them out.....
              
     brien
    
    
    PS..  Oh yeah - I have a K1r too. Doesn't get much use since
          I got the VFX-SD.
    
    

    This one guy I know Steve O'leary programmed a K1 editor a couple
    months ago.. I wonder if its the same one.. Describe it to me
    

Re .14:

If this is a response to my note about a K1 editor on a Fish disk, the answer
is "naaaah." Disk 332 is kinda old by now, definitely more than a couple of
months. Since I have no way (apart from reading and approving the code) of
guaranteeing that downloading a dump to my K1-II won't trash all my voicings,
I haven't done so yet. It looks, on the face of it, like a not-too-bad
package, though definitely not competitive with a "pro" package.

Cheers,
	Bob

	re  Bars & Pipes...

	I didn't know that it won't respond to sysex, I'll check.  If 
this is true then maybe my first  "REAL"  project with  "Rules for 
Tools"  will be to add it.   Interchange with KCS ? - I think you need 
the multi-media kit, then you can use SMUS format - of course SMUS
also gets you interchange with DMCS.  The standard accessories 
includes Muffy for reading/writing std midi files - enuf ?

	R

As for "Rules of Tools" projects, I'll put in a request for tap tempo
which if I understand it correctly lets you set the tempo by just 
pressing one key over an over to create a tempo map. If someone wants to
expound upon its use or variations in implementation I'm listening.
Or is there a note somewhere?

Dave

Well, that was then, this is now. as they say.

As the author of a previous reply casting doubts on Bars and Pipes' future, I
feel compelled to correct myself in light of new info. I've been looking into
B&P despite earlier misgivings, since its concept and abilities still appealed
to me. In so doing, I got the literature on B&P Pro, and called for additional
information, accidentally squeaking by Blue Ribbon's automated voicemail
answering system.

The human who answered couldn't really answer many questions, but kept on having
to refer to a third party, who eventually got on the line- Todor Fay, the author
of Soundscape and Bars and Pipes (and, it happens, PowerWindows and InovaTools,
etcetera- sorta prolific). It was quite reassuring to hear his side of the
Soundscape fiasco.

Seems Mimetics wanted all bugfixes *and* enhancements for free- including the
upgrade project Todor proposed to them which eventually became Bars and Pipes!
This story is both easier to believe and easier to take than the one I got from
Mimetics, and reassures me greatly as to Bars and Pipes' future. I expect to be
buying Bars and Pipes Pro in the near future, barring any extraordinary
developments by its competitors (I'm not holding my breath).

Cheers,
	Bob

For those interested, Fred Fish disk #481 (yes, this means something to
Amigans!) has a patch editor/librarian for the Kawai K1-II. If you're not
familiar with the Amiga conference's file area, you'll find the disk archive
either in TAPE::AMIGA:[UPLOAD] or the fish subdirectory tree under
TAPE::AMIGA:[AMIGA], depending on whether it's been moved yet, as FF481.LZH.

I've downloaded it and tried it out; it's not without flaws, but it's useful.
Whatever, you do, *don't* try to iconize the window on an NTSC (that is, US)
display unless you're using an interlaced Workbench- instant GURU! I also had
some problems with selecting effect #1 actually changing to a new patch, and
in loading the sound called "Rejoice!" resulting in a load of the sound
"Spiraletti."

As I said, though, it's in general a useful program- and the price is right!

Cheers,
	Bob