| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 736.1 | But wait! There's more! | JAWS::COTE | Fight for your right to pate'.. | Fri Mar 27 1987 16:58 | 10 |
| I believe in addition to a $400 hi-fi VCR, you'll also need an outboard
PCM unit. I've no idea of the cost. Certainly under $1000.
Keyboard had a short blurb about using this type of setup. After
24 generations of copies there was *no* discernable degradation
of sound quality...
Edd
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| 736.2 | | SSDEVO::MCCOLLUM | | Fri Mar 27 1987 17:30 | 12 |
| re: .1
Using PCM does give you the ultimate, but I think it's not necessary
for many (most) applications. WITHOUT using PCM, my Sony has audio
specs that are WELL BEYOND anything short of a studio mastering
deck.
I think the real advantages of PCM comes out when you want to make
copies of a master (to another VCR), and the multi-track capabilities
that I've heard about with dedicated PCM gadgets.
Peter
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| 736.3 | Great for mixdowns! | COROT::CERTO | | Fri Mar 27 1987 18:01 | 25 |
| I do it, works great! with Sony Super Beta Hi-Fi, no PCM.
I highly recommend it, in vhs or beta, not 8mm. Get a vcr
that was rated well for audio performance in the mags.
some caveats, keep in mind, I'm being very picky:
you need two machines to edit, but no razor blades necessary,
and there's less of a problem with generational loss than reel
to reels.
/////////////
scan noise (due to the glitch between slices of the tape
by the tape heads may occasionally be detected with certain
sustained instrument notes, but I never hear it. Using DBX on
my reels is a hundred times worse (like poping and breathing
on drums or dynamic sections).
If you get an editing deck like the SLHF-1000, you can
edit at 1/30'th of a second accuracy, but you may want more
available only with reel to reel.
You said "PRO," well a lot of studios use a PCM converter to
master in digital stereo: and you still can use the 2 hi-fi,
and the linear tracks (within limits) at the same time, too.
Fredric DALI::CERTO
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| 736.4 | But wait, there's even more! | LDP::WEAVER | Laboratory Data Products | Fri Mar 27 1987 18:38 | 8 |
| And for a possibly limited time only, if you buy a PCM adapter
for your VCR, you can listen to broadcast digital PCM on channel
44 at night!
-Dave
p.s. I'd love to hear how broadcast PCM sounds, it may be the wave
of the future!
|
| 736.5 | PCM unnecessary | SKYLRK::MESSENGER | Things fall apart-it's scientific | Fri Mar 27 1987 19:01 | 9 |
|
Re: .0
The specs I've seen for Hi-Fi VCR audio tracks indicate 80+ dB dynamic
range and 25-20000 Hz frequency response... this should be more
than adequate -- far superior to reel-to-reel.
Try it -- tell us how it does...
- HBM
|
| 736.6 | | EMERLD::DUBE | | Mon Mar 30 1987 10:09 | 8 |
| I have heard nothing but rave reviews regarding the use of HiFi
VCRs for mixdown. In fact, I'm planning on buying one for my recording
studio in the very near future.
It may be a good idea to rent one for a weekend and give it a try
to see if you like it. Rent-A-Center or other such places can usually
rent them out for a reasonable price.
|
| 736.7 | Beta or VHS? | NIMBUS::DAVIS | | Wed Apr 01 1987 12:15 | 10 |
| RE: .6
Rent-a-VCR sounds like a good way to try it. Thanks for the tip.
Second part of the question is what about Beta vs. VHS. I saw a
closeout on a hifi Beta deck at Radio Shack for $299, and I've heard
that the quality is even better than VHS. Any problems getting Beta
tape or repairs in the near future?
Rob
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| 736.8 | Beta is better, but VHS is more available | EMERLD::DUBE | | Wed Apr 01 1987 12:53 | 17 |
| RE: .7
From what I've heard, Beta is superior in quality to VHS, even though
VHS is by far the most popular choice. As a result, Beta is getting
more and more scarce, and you probably have good reason to be concerned
about it.
If you live in the Nashua area, I know that P.E. Fletcher's on Main
Street still sells a lot of Beta machines, rents the biggest selection
in the area of Beta tapes, and (I believe) repairs Beta machines.
You can call them at (603)-889-4146. Ask for Jim Hinkle. He's a
salesperson who specializes in the stereo/video merchandise in the
store. He also happens to be the other guitar player in my band
and the co-owner of my recording studio.
-Dan
|
| 736.9 | From a videophile | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | Dave | Wed Apr 01 1987 14:31 | 42 |
| re: Rob Davis
I'm a sort of videophile. I have both Beta and VHS.
Beta is better video quality than VHS, and SuperBeta (a Beta
enhancement that is both forwards and backwards compatable with
regular Beta) is significantly better than VHS for video.
The audio quality of both are pretty much the same.
My advice on which format to get is simple: if you're planning to
rent tapes or trade tapes with friends, buy VHS. If not, buy Beta.
It is getting increasingly harder to find Beta tapes to RENT, but
I think you'll be able to find blank Beta tapes at good prices for
many years without any problem. Getting them repaired isn't a problem
either.
Now I hate to seem to take business away from Dan Dube's bandmate,
but if you live in the Nashua area, I highly recommend you check
out Deluxe Radio and Television on E. Pearl Street: (603) 883-5722.
Deluxe is almost legendary in the VIDEO notesfile (DSSDEV::VIDEO).
I can safely tell you that they are widely regarded to be the best
place anyone has ever bought video equipment. If you don't believe
me, just check out the VIDEO notesfile.
The consistent experience we've seen with Deluxe is that they have
the best prices, and the best customer service (often RAVED about
in VIDEO). They are very nice people to deal with.
Deluxe also specializes in Beta. With most stores that claim to
"specialize in Beta" it only means they carry some Beta decks.
Beta is MOST of Deluxe's business. Their Beta tape library is
2 to 4 times as big as their VHS library.
I must have hidden motives for recommending them so emphatically
right? you are right. My motives are that I like to support stores
that will bend over backwards for their customers. Deluxe is the
finest example of such a store I've encountered. Read VIDEO, you'll
see.
db
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| 736.10 | PCM-R>R-cassette-then VCR's | NEXUS::DICKERSON | | Wed Apr 01 1987 16:31 | 50 |
| As the owner and user of a synth (ESQ1), numerous other musical
instruments and as a long-time recording enthusiast, I've tried
r-r, casette, hi-fi vcr's, and pcm digital recording (using an
adapter and a vcr.) Nothing comes close to pcm for low noise
wide dynamic range recording. This has only ever been an issue
doing "live" (read.. on-site) recording. For "home" or studio
recording where you (presumably) have control over the recording
environment, pcm is overkill.
As far as using a hi-fi vcr for stereo mix-down is concerned, I
have a few reservations. The first is a matter of poor editing
facilities ( with the possible exception of the high end Sony
but I've never used it and thus am not entitled to an opinion.)
My second concern is sound quality. NOT A SINGLE HI-FI VCR THAT
I HAVE TESTED OR THAT I HAVE SEEN TEST REPORTS ON HAS COME CLOSE
TO MEETING ITS PUBLISHED SPECS! On a more subjective level, the
very pumping and breathing phenomenon mentioned in a reply above
about dbx exists and can be heard when recording wide dynamic
range material. This, I am sure, is due to the noise reduction
circuits that are used but not advertised on all VHS hi-fi units.
I have had better luck with Beta hi-fi than VHS hi-fi in this regard
but the problem exists on both.
Technical note... Beta hi-fi and VHS hi-fi while both using an FM
recording technique go about it in quite different ways. Beta
simply "steals" some unused "space" in the wide frequency spectrum
used by video and stores the audio there. VHS hi-fi uses something
they call "depth multiplexing" which takes advantage of the fact
that different freqencies exist at different depths in a magnetic
storage medium. The azimuth angle of the video and audio heads
are very different and thus head alignment becomes much more
critical.
In short, hi-fi vcrs are a good enough choice for most mix down
chores. But, there are cassette decks on the market that are
sonically superior ( and competitively priced.) My Nakamichi
BX300 is audibly superior to my h-fi vcr. List price on the
vcr was higher than the cassette deck. The best choice is
either a good reel-to-reel or a pcm box but these options are
in the 2k$$ range. Second best is a good cassette deck. This
is a $700-1000 option. Third choice would be a good hi-fi vcr
( Beta first, VHS second ). Mail order this can run from $350
to >$1000.
Contrary opinions ( based on experience and data, not theology )
are invited.
Doug Dickerson
|
| 736.11 | Deluxe is excellent! | COROT::CERTO | | Mon Apr 06 1987 18:46 | 27 |
| Concerning Dave Blickstein's reply .9; I agree with everything
he said.
Deluxe is excellent; I personally have spent a few thou' there
and intend to continue! He'll give us Digital types a discount;
talk to Paul, feel free to mention my name and notes! Great
place for repairs too, I'm told.
re .10 I'm a bit spoiled, cause I've been using the top of
the line Sony Super Beta Hi-Fi VCR's. My recording quality
is excellent, and in my opinion, they meet their exellent specs.
PCM and R/R may beat or equal it though; I have an excellent R/R
with frequency response less than 3 db down at 28,000 hz, so...
You are right about editing, much easier on a R/R, imposible on
cassette, easy on SLHF-1000's, but a bit inaccurate, probably
hard on others.
A great advantage is the video tape length: I can tape ~six CD's
on an L-750 (there's also a longer tape: L-850). The best audio
specs are, surprisingly, at the slowest speeds (all excellent
though).
Fredric Certo
|
| 736.12 | | SSDEVO::MCCOLLUM | | Tue Apr 07 1987 18:06 | 3 |
| re:.11 "The best audio specs are at the slower speeds"
Why is that? Any idea?
|
| 736.13 | | COROT::CERTO | | Wed Apr 08 1987 00:33 | 17 |
| re: .12
I'm recalling a review of the Sony SLHF-1000 in Video or Video Review
which said that the slower speed has the best audio specs, but the
difference was really minuscule.
I forget why; but I do know that on a reel to reel, like an Ampex
�" 2 track, the frequency response for 15 ips is better in the
bass region than the 30 ips speed. But then high frequency at 30 ips
is extended. Something like 20 hz goes to 38 hz ? Drop-outs
are reduced at higher speeds.
The SLHF-900 probably has the same quality at both speeds, I
haven't noticed a difference when taping CD's.
Fredric
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