Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
    Well, Dan, I have a basic home recording studio and it includes
    less than what you have listed.
    
    so my opinion is, if you got/get what you listed you'll be doing
    fine.
    
    of course, as you learn (and grow?) you grow right out of the basic
    stuff and into an 8 track with a 12 channel mixer and 3 reverbs
    and 3 drum machines.
    
    and floppies
    and editable sequencers
    
    then the 16 track with the 24 channel board....
    
    and then...

    One possible pitfall I can think of (and mind you, I set up my
    studio on the same type of criteria you are)....
    
    The spring reverb in my Peavey XR1200 powered mixer is TERRIBLE.
    Drums go boingy-boingy like there's no tomorrow. While a mega-bucks
    digital reverb is nice, they are relatively expensive. I have a
    Fostex true stereo spring reverb that puts the Peavey on-board to
    shame. Yes, it's still susceptible to the boingies, but it is much
    cleaner than the on-board unit. True stereo? The unit is basically
    2 reverbs sharing a common chassis and power supply. The amount
    of wet and dry can be independently varied for each chanell and
    the chanells can be combined for added versatility like dry on
    one side and reverb only on the other. I effectively have to
    separate units. One input can be soaked while the second can
    have a much more moderate amount.
    
    No reverb is bad, bad reverb isn't any better. 
    
    This may not be a valid test but my experience is that when dealing
    with springs, better quality can be determined by thumping them.
    The more susceptable to "thunder", the lower the quality. The Peavey
    "booms" with a much gentler thump than the fostex...
                                     
    Edd

    You're off to a great start, you've got a lot more than I had when
    I started (a Poly 800, a Tascam 244, a TR707 and an Alesis XT reverb).
    
    Take a look at some of the new "mini" digital reverbs like the Alesis
    MicroVerb.  These can be had for less than $250!  Talk somebody
    into a nice birthday present, maybe 10 months early?
    
    Consider picking up some used mics - music stores that rent them
    will often sell them for a fraction of their cost after they've
    amortized their purchase cost (wholesale to dealers, remember) by
    renting them, and if they're still good enough to rent, they're
    good enough to use.
    
    Do you have a chorus - I have found that chorus and reverb are
    the most useful effects for applying to synths, and reverb is
    absolutely necessary for voice.  It helps a lot on drum machines
    too, but springs just won't hack it for percussive sounds, even
    with tons of EQ (mostly treble cut) on the wet path.
      
    And I'll reiterate the warning - this is a habit forming avocation.
    Once you start doing neat things with what you've got, you'll want
    to be able to do more...
    
    len.
     

    
    As far as monitors go...just about the cheapest monitors you can
    get are a pair of Auratone 5c's...$75.00/pr brand new. They're very
    flat and fairly accurate, but can only be used for nearfield monitors,
    like on top of your board (or table as the case may be). If you
    get better monitors later you can sell them for $50 and only lose
    $25.
    
    The reverb/effects market seems to be changeing and evolving as
    fast as the synth market. There are a lot of used digital reverbs
    in the Want Ad every week. Sure, for $100 you can't expect 15KHz
    response, but you probably won't get that out of your used X15
    anyway.
    
    Used SM58's are gotten easily for $50-60 apiece. One of the best
    vocal mikes for the money, the Audio-Technica AT813 is around $85
    used.
    
    CdH
    
    
    

RE ALL

	Thanks to all for the advice and warnings, both here and in personal
phone calls, and VaxMail.  By the way Len, that warning should have ben given
to me two years ago when I first started looking into electronic music!  I'm
down a collision course now!

RE Note 697.4 by MPGS::DEHAHN 

	Where around here can those Auratone 5c's be had?  What do they consist
of?

	Speaking of monitors, is it true that you don't need very large speakers
to do effective home recording?  I was planning on getting something with at
least a woofer of 12", but someone recommended to me that was not necessary.  I
was under the impression one had to have that in order to get good bass response
and not blow them out.  What's the scoop?

	And bringing up digital reverbs vs. digital delays.  Can they be used
interchangably?  I was under the impression that delays were unsuitable for 
reverb since the algorythm was much more complex for reverb (i.e. not just
echo back the same signal).  Have any of you used effectively a delay unit for
reverb?  I say this because Chris mentioned $100 for a used digital reverb.
I watch the Wantads very closely and I've never seen digital reverbs for less 
than $300.  Digital delays, yes, reverbs, no.  Did you mean delay pedals?

	Anyway, keep dem cards and letters rollin' in.  I'm sure I have a lot
to learn.  It'd be nice to keep the amount I have to unlearn at a minimum.

	Dan

    I seem to remember this being mentioned elsewhere in this notesfile,
    but the purpose of the monitors is to give you a reference for what
    your mix will sound like on a variety of equipment.  Large commercial
    studios usually have at least a set of very expensive monitors
    optimized for flat frequency response and high power handling
    capability and a set of small monitors like the Auratones or Yamaha
    NS-10s as a reference for what the mix will sound like in Joe Average
    Consumer's car, boombox, Walkman, etc.  Thus, if you can afford
    it, have a couple of sources of reference, maybe a good set of home
    stereo speakers and a set of nearfield monitors.  A mix which sounds
    good on both should sound good on most any equipment.  If you optimize
    your mix on a set of $79 speakers, it will probably sound bad on
    a good pair; conversely, if it sounds good on an expensive pair,
    it might not sound good on a boom box.
    
    I personally use a pair of JBL L100 Centuries as my main reference,
    and then play the mix in my car to make adjustments since I don't
    yet have a set of nearfield monitors.

    Also, don't forget that volume has a major impact on how things
    sound, so don't always mix at high volume or low volume, but try
    to listen at a variety of levels.
    
    		Derek
        

    .. and, for a bit of help on what to do once it's together, check
    out an oooollld note in the music conference, 'Low-Tech Stereo Home
    Productions'.. yes, I wrote it !

RE Note 697.7 by 16514::MOELLER 

>    .. and, for a bit of help on what to do once it's together, check
>    out an oooollld note in the music conference, 'Low-Tech Stereo Home
>    Productions'.. yes, I wrote it !

	Where is it, Karl? I tried looking for it under that title.

	Dan

    re -1.. I cahn't find it either. archived, perhaps. I'll VAXmail
    ya.
    
    kkm

    
    re .5 .6
    
    How do you get all your mixing and tape gear down into your car to
    do the final mixdown?  :-).
    
    Re nearfield montitors. I have been using a pair of JBL Control
    1's . These are about 100 pounds over here. About 10*6*6 inches
    and have about the flattest response I have heard in a small speaker.
    (I think they are made out of some heavy density plastic).     
                                       
    
    I auditioned them with my supplier against the Yamaha's and a couple
    of the more traditional small nearfield monitor's and the JBL's
    were the best* and the cheapest. Since using them I have found that
    I no longer have the problem of producing a great sound in the studio
    only to find it sounds like flatulence when I play it for the first
    person who I want to impress, on *their* Hi-Fi.
                                      
    Apart from these I think you have all your priorities just about
    sorted out. However I really think (speaking from experience) that
    after getting used to the x-15, that the next mega-leap in terms
    of sound and capability will come from the purchase of a reverb.
    The new and older allesis unit's come dirt cheap these days. I payed
    399 pounds for mine less than a year ago. And whilst it's annoying
    to think of the loss of value of the kit now. Just think of all
    that time I/you would have wasted waiting for the price to drop.
    
    At 250 dollars these days they are a steal.
    
                                 Paul.          
    

    
    Derek in .6 hit the nail on the head....It is very important to
    have several reference monitors when doing serious recording, so
    that you can get a good feel for what the mix will sound like in
    varying situations.
    
    Since the base note had an overwhelming emphasis on minimum bucks,
    and since this whole affair is being produced on a used X-15, not
    a <put your favorite brand of multitrack recorder here> I think
    the 5C's are a great place to start. If you can manage to dig up
    a few more bucks I think the best low budget monitor has got to
    be the JBL 4406 at $299. They have a really full sound for their
    size (about the size of your VT240) since they've managed to port
    the cabinet. Don't know if they're related to the Control 1's.
    
    You can hear both the 5c's and the 4406 at LaSalle's.
    
    CdH
    
    

           
    
    as you can see the smallest basic system you need to do home
    recording will result in your purchasing a larger home with
    proper wiring, 2 connect rooms for recording/playing and a full
    complement of engineers. :-)
    
    one person's idea of basic and another persons idea of basic
    don't neccesarily match.
    
    i have a 4 track
    a spring reverb
    an old inferior delay
    1 sm58
    1 some other kind of recording! mic
    my guitar
    my marshall
    a technics $%^&&?? tape deck
    3 pairs of head phones....1 for 19$, 1 for 35$ 1 for 15$...all bought
    new.
    
    THE ONLY WAY I CAN HEAR ANYTHING AT ALL/DO ANY MIXING IS VIA
    HEADPHONES!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    
  start  	amp->mic->4 track->  headphones/2 track.    finish
    
    	in order to hear a resultant mix down i must take
    the tape over to my stereo and listen to it.
    
    now, THAT"S BASIC!
    
    and it works....
    some times it takes 2 or 3 shots to get it right but, hey, it
    takes THEM 2 or 3 shots to get it right, too.
    
    and after awhile you KNOW the difference between what you are
    hearing over phones and what's gonna come out of the stereo.
    and you adjust for it....
    
    for example, leads over the headphones sound fine.
    take the mixed down tape to the stereo and they drop...quite a bit...
    
    my technics records SLOW so when i play the mixdown it comes out
    TOO fast....
    
    i know these 2 problems so I adjust during the mix down by
    a. turning up the lead a tad
    b. slowing down the speed of the 4 track.
    
    so, a basic system can be far less than what some people think
    is a basic system.
    
    would you like to hear a tape with a bunch of soon-to-be-hit tunes
    that i wrote/recorded in this manner?
    
    I forget but Dan Eaton did start this, right?
    I met you the other day, Dan...right?
                                                                  
    
    if the above 2 statements are true....i can lend you a tape
    so you can make a judgment....
    
    lastly, I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT YOU RECORD IN MY FASHION!
    I agree with all of them that, for best quality and less
    hassles you should go with MORE than a basic system...
    
    get those speakers!
    when you can.
    
    get all the best stuff!!!!
    when you can.
    
    but if you're limited on money, basic doesn't have to be unattainably
    expensive.
    
    you're welcome
    rik
                 

RE Note 697.13 by SKYLIT::SAWYER 
    
	I very much appreciate what all of you have advised.  Please continue
as I'm like a sponge with all this new stuff.

>    one person's idea of basic and another persons idea of basic
>    don't neccesarily match.
    
	Rik, you hit the nail on the head.  Believe me, if I had to pay more
than $250 on the 4-track I got, I wouldn't have bought it!  Now I only have a
couple of hundred left, so frugality is essential.  I mentioned possibly making
the monitors.  I've determined it will cost me about $70 - $90 in materials, so
the Auratones would definately be a savings, though the speakers themselves
will be smaller.  I can borrow SM58's, so I may just do that.  The only things I
think are absolutely essential that I don't have right now are a mix-down deck
and a stereo reverb.  I'll settle for spring reverb if I can find it.  I find
that tape decks can generally be found for $50 - $75 in the WantAds.  Drum 
machine would be a nice luxury.  Maybe I have to go nonMIDI for now.
 
	Part of the reason I bring all this up is that some of you may have, 
but no longer need some of the things I am looking for.  More than once I've
seen incidental sales come up through notes like these.


>    I forget but Dan Eaton did start this, right?
>    I met you the other day, Dan...right?
                                      
                            
	Sorry, but I don't think so.  But then again I may have been 
elsewhere when we met.

	Dan

    Basic, eh?
    
    A) Do you have a home stereo system, ? Use it as your playback/monitor
       system. New speakers are probably not needed.. many big bux studios
       use incredibly cheesy home speakers to reference their mixes.
    
    B) Do you have any guitar 'stomp box' effects ? Use them during
       mixdown to stereo.
    
    C) Mixing to Stereo from 4-track : Use your old reliable cassette
       deck.
    
    karl
    

    D) Don't be afraid of a Y cord. It can beat bouncing tracks when
       you need just one more part on tape.
    
    Edd

    
    Well, I've been reading this note with interest.  I've had a FOSTEX
    X-15 for about a year now and I've enjoyed it tremendously.  My
    eqipment is VERY basic:
    
    	o  X-15
    	o  Nakamichi BX-1 Stereo Cassette Deck
    	o  Boston Acoustic B-100 Floor Speakers (I mix in our den)
       	o  A microphone
    	o  A mike stand
    	o  A borrowed no-name bass guitar
    	o  An acoustic guitar
    
    I've been working without a reverb with pretty good results.  The
    only time I really miss it is when I do vocal harmonies.  To handle
    this, I repeat my harmonies on another track.  Then I pan the two
    identical harmonies on opposite stereo tracks during the mix down.
    The result?  A full background harmony that sounds like it's going
    through a reverb or delay.
    
    Sure, it takes up another track, but do I have a spare 250 bucks
    lying around the house?  More importantly, I feel I need a keyboard
    next and I've been shopping for a while now.  The choices a little
    overwhelming right now, but I think the keyboard will help my
    songwriting tremendously.  I first began composing on the keyboards
    and now that I've been using a guitar, I'm looking forward to using
    a keyboard again. 

    A friend let me borrow his Yamaha DX-7 for a week in return for
    borrowing my 4-track.  Unfortunately, I'm getting spoiled by the
    DX-7 and there's no way I can afford it!
    
    Such is this obsessive and expensive hobby we've immersed ourselves
    and our families into!
    
    Peter
    Nashua, NH

RE Note 697.15 by 16514::MOELLER 


>    A) Do you have a home stereo system, ? 

	No, that's one of the things I need to purchase.
    
>    B) Do you have any guitar 'stomp box' effects ? 

	Yes, but they are not stereo.
    
>    C) Mixing to Stereo from 4-track : Use your old reliable cassette
>       deck.

	see A).
    
    Dan
    

    re -1.. Dan, the 'stomp boxes' certainly do not need to be stereo
    to allow you to 'stereoize' signals during mixdown. As Edd saidd,
    use of a 'Y' cord allows you to split a recorded track and have
    it 'dry', unchanged, in the left channel and 'stomped' (wet) in
    the right. So mono effects are just fine in this environment..
    
    Check out that article I VAXmailed you for lowbux production tricks.

    re: .-1
    
    Karl,
    
    Why don't you post that list of tricks here? I know I'd like to
    see it, and probably several other people would, also.
    
    -Dan (the other one)
    

    There's one thing you didn't say in your base note, Dan. Are you
    willing to 'fly in the face of convention' for the sake of getting
    the tune on tape?
    
    Y cords may be snikkered at by pros. "So what?" is my attitude.
    My contribution to Tape 1 had Y cords *ganged 3 deep* and I got
    compliments on the 'low budget' sound.
    
    Recording is as much a creative art as composing. You've got to
    take your chances and sometimes take your lumps.
    
    Try simulating reverb by recording you guitar in the largest room
    you have. Take a dry signal and feed it to the deck. Take a mic
    and put it at the other end of the room and mix the 2 signals
    down to one track. What's it sound like? Like it? Save it. Does
    it sound like dog-doo? Erase it and don't tell anyone! No loss
    except for time.
    
    By the time you inevitably work up to a big board and deck, you'll
    have a great library of tricks at your command. 
    
    Edd

    Re: 20
    
    Karls note on low budget productions is note 282.
    
    Dave

	Remember this note?  Its been less than two months since I opened it up
and I'm now well on my way toward the goal I set.  I had my first REAL session
last night and got so caught up in it that I didn't get to bed until two
in the morning (yawn).  The results?  Nothing spectacular.  But it's my own work
and it will get better.  I learned a headful last night - mostly in what NOT
to do.  (Can you say 'tape saturation'?)

	Here's the result of my equipment searches and purchases:

	Multi-track tape deck:		Fostex X15
	Drum Machine:			Korg Super Drums
	Mixer/Reverb:			Peavy PA400 6 channel mixer
	Microphone:			Shure SM58
	Monitor				Kept what I had (better amp helps)

	On top of it all, I picked up the Yamaha FB01, which will mainly serve
as my piano source until I can afford something better.

	As you can see, none of what I got was top of the line, and, except for
the Yamaha unit, it was ALL used.  The only problem I've had with any of them 
was a sticking pause button on the Fostex.  But for all the things I listed 
above (including the FB01), I paid less than $800.

	Dan