Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Ron,
    
    I have a Casio CZ-101 synth that I use with a Passport designs midi
    interface and software (in conjunction with my Commodore 64).
    
    The keyboard I believe has 8 voices. If you want to play mono parts
    (one note at a time) then you can use four different patches for
    four different parts. If however you want to use a poly part (playing
    chords) then you can only have one part. The software I have is
    capable of controlling 16 different midi parts, so with the price
    of a CZ-101 ( I got mine on sale for $225) you could buy a couple
    of them with a midi through box for relativly cheap.
    
    The only problem that I have is the metronome on the software. The
    thing slightly glitches sometimes (hits an occasional beat a little
    off). I presume this is either fluctuations in the the voltage or
    more likely I think is an inferior clock chip on the Commodore.
    
    If you have not bought a computer for your midi set up then I would
    say find a place that sells the instrument, software and has a computer
    set up and listen to the thing for precise clock timing. I think
    my next choice of computer will be an IBM pc (God forbid) because
    their is so much music software for that system.
    
    Anyway, maybe this will help. Maybe not.
    
    
    Michael Thompson

another problem with the low-end casios - they don't voice an entire 
88-keys, only one octave lower/higher than the keys provided, past 
those boundaries, they either repeat or cut out.  (The YAmaha 
YPR-series has the same problem - they only voice 76 keys)

In answer to the original question:

Yes Ron, the CZ series is "multi-timbral".  You can get 4 different mono
patches out of it at one time using a sequencer.

The FB01 is 8 voice multi-timbral.  I believe you can divide those 8 voices
up in a number of ways so as to retain polyophony of some of the voices
(IE: 1 voice mono bass + 2 voice poly violin + 4 voice poly piano + 
1 voice mono horn).

Todd.

    One thing to remember when using a synth with multi-timbral capability
    is that you need some way to control the mix (volume, EQ, etc.)
    of the different sounds.  If everything is playing at the same volume,
    it can sound like a real mess.  I have heard some things played
    entirely by sequencer where people forgot about this and sounded
    very unnatural and had no subtlty to it.
    
    I believe that most multi-timbral synths use panning to achieve
    separation, usually full L, full R, or center.  Some multi-timbral
    synths have separate outputs, (for example, the TX816 which I guess
    in the strictest sense isn't really a multi-timbral synths but a
    collection of single timbral synths) but I think that they are the
    exception, not the rule.
    
    		Derek

    The Ensoniq ESQ-1 is multi-timbral, and you can balance the volume
    of each sound by either setting the overall volume level of the
    patch or by sending MIDI program change commands.
    
    If you use the ESQ1's builtin 8-track sequencer you can balance
    the volume between tracks without touching the patches (the sequencer
    has a page for adjusting the level of each track).
    
    	db

    Ensoniq has just released the ESQ-M which is the tone generators
    of the ESQ-1 in a rack-mount (no sequencer I believe).
    
    	- Rick
    

    
                                  $?
    
    Edd

    $995.
    
    -jim who's_probably_going_to_buy_one_RSN

    
    
                                    $!

    
    	And, of course, the Yamaha Tx81z is multi-timbral, and
    	also higher fidelity than the Fb01.
    
    						Scot

    Re: .10
    
    I've been trying to decide between an FB01 and a TX81Z.  I'll only
    be using it for casual home recording so the fidelity isn't *that*
    important.  I know the FB requires external programming s/w, while
    the TX doesn't, and that the TX does some stuff with non-standard
    tunings/scales, which I don't need. 
    
    Are there any other significant differences?  I figure that with
    some legwork, I can find two used FB01's for a little more than
    the price of a TX81Z, and double my timbres.  Comments?
    
    Also, someone mentioned in this note to beware of patch level problems,
    i.e., all of the voices being the same volume.  Are these programmable
    on either/both the FB and TX?  Also, I'm looking at getting Dr.
    T's KCS sequencing software for my Atari 1040ST.  Will that support 
    independent voice (channel) volumes?
    
    Rodney M.

    
    Answered under the assumption that both the Fb01 and the TX81Z use
    the same basic architecture as my DX21....
    
    There is no 'patch-wide' level control, that is one that controls
    the absolute level of a given patch. If you want any voice to be
    quieter at the same output level slider position, each of the 4
    operator level settings must be individually tweaked. This is not
    as easy as it sounds, as a small level change for an individual
    operator can have a DRASTIC effect on timbre.
    
    Obviously, unless these 2 units incorporate a different parameter,
    (Patch Level?) you'd be unable to change the Fb01 without the 
    appropriate software and you *would* be able to change the TX.
                                        
    Edd
    

    
    Both FB and 81Z are multi-timbral, 8 'instruments' (at once).
    TX7 is 16 notes of one instrument.
    If you have the extra $$, the 81Z has more features. 
    Personal opinion: Tx7 is less functional (mainly for non-multitimbral)
    than FB, and you get 2 Fb's for the same $$ . 16 DIFFERENT instruments
    sounding at once!
    
    FB and 81Z:
    The output volume for each instrument is settable by a "configuration"
    parameter, so you can adjust the relative levels quite easily.
    
    Problem is that the 'instruments' all come with max volume defaults, 
    so there is a wide variation on volumes as you scroll thru the 
    sounds (using *one* configuration)...no big deal.
    
    ron
    

re -.1

	The FB01 has 'configuration' memories that contain a parameter for
output level.  So you can set up a single voice patch with 8-note polyphonic
and set the output level at 127 (highest) and control it at the board; or
you can set up any number of patches with assignable polyphony (up to 8 mono 
patches) and set each patch's volume individually.  Unfortunately, there are 
only two outputs (stereo) and only three ways to send the signal out (Left, 
Left-right, or Right).  Clear things up a bit?

	Dan

	You beat me to it, Ron.

    Okay, I think I got it.  The FB01 can split it's eight voices as
    determined by an assignable configuration, with each "split", or
    patch, having it's own output level. Right?  Sounds like just what
    I want.  A
    
    Next question: Can one pan each patch independently, i.e., for a
    three voice configuration, can one voice be panned left, one right,
    and one both (middle)? 

    And while I'm at it, what are new FB01's going for?  And the rackmount
    kit?
    
    Rodney M.

    re .16	Yup, you got it now.  And yes, you can put any/all of
    'em anywhere, and some of 'em will even move across according to
    the pitch of the note being played, but its a bitch to try mucking
    with their relative volumes at the end of a verse or chorus,...
    and KM II was dead right about their voices being dismal compared
    to the MKS 20,...  and I'm gonna stick with mine 'til I can play
    better and/or afford something better,...  and ~$300 to your last
    question (cut, split, delivered and stacked, but green...(oops,
    wrong conference))
    
    	Reg
    
    	( FREEZE !   MIAMI VICE;  move away from that keyboard !)
    

    
    Pan is only L, R, or middle (3 choices) on Fb01. But for each
    of the 8 instruments....looks like full range L to R on 81z, but
    not verified....
    
    The 81z has lotsa other features! I can send you a blurbe from
    AFTERTOUCH mag. Keyboard did a review too.
    
    Best price quoted me last week for Tx81z was $405 (includes shipping).
    
   
    not bad.
    

    Re: .18
    
    I remember someone asking you this question before, but I don't
    remember if you answered:  where'd you get the $405 quote?  I've
    only seen prices in the close-to-$500 range.
    
    RM
    

    re .18	Well, I coulda swore (and do) that FB-01 puts low piano
    notes out on the left speaker and high ones out on the right when
    its set to LR, (is that called "scaling" ?) and I'm pretty sure
    that's one of the per voice params, so its likely to be different
    for other voices, but I'll check tonight coz its snowin', so I won't
    be splitting wood or going for a bicycle ride.
    
    	Reg
    
    	(L, R, or LR is *ONE* choice between three alternatives.)

    2 points of difference - 
    
    81Z has waveforms other than sine waves in it's operators (and I
    believe also better digital resolution) so it's sounds are in some
    ways superior.
    
    The multi-timbral capabilities of the FB-01 are limited to mono
    mode, each voice is monophonic. 81Z can split the voice combinations
    in any polyphonic combination based on voice number and channel
    assign. (Not as good as the dynamic assign on an ESQ-1 but much
    better than mono mode).
    
    Rob
    

< Note 695.21 by NIMBUS::DAVIS >

>    The multi-timbral capabilities of the FB-01 are limited to mono
>    mode, each voice is monophonic. 81Z can split the voice combinations
>    in any polyphonic combination based on voice number and channel
>    assign. (Not as good as the dynamic assign on an ESQ-1 but much
>    better than mono mode).
    
	Nope.  The FB and the 81Z are the same in this respect.  They can
assign any number of notes polyphonic to any MIDI channel, zone of the
keyboard, or layer with any other voice in such a way that is uses any or all
of the eight available voices.

	Dan    

    Thanks Dan, I stand corrected. Next time I'll know better than
    to report second hand info here. 8^)
    
    That certainly makes the FB-01 more attractive in my book.
    
    Rob

    Anybody recall mention of a Yamaha rackmount SGU that has piano,
    strings, and bass(es).  I think it's called the P1 or something
    like that?  I remember it being cheap, i.e., about $300?
    
    I'm desperate for strings that sound even vaguely realistic.  My
    DX11 has great bass, elec. piano, and bell stuff, but 4 op FM strings
    are the pits!
    
    Unless, of course, someone out there has a great TX81Z/DX11 string
    patch they'd be willing to share.  I did get the Valhalla set (256
    patches for $56).  Some very good patches, but no strings that I
    really liked.
    
    Rodney M.

    
    
    I have seen and heard one of these but can't remember the number.
    It was very much in the FB01 mould I.E. half rackmount and 8 voice
    poly with a good option for stacking 2 to achieve 16 note poly.
    The sounds were very good sampled piano's strings and also choir
    I think.
    
    249 UK pounds.
                                            	
    					Paul K
    					

RE .24

>    I did get the Valhalla set (256 patches for $56).  
    
	You only got 256?  I got 757 in my package (with the librarian)!

	Dan

I've seen a Yamaha Piano module TX1P or some such thing, 500-700?

Korg has P3, cheaper piano module.  Can also take cards that allow strings etc.
Korg Symphony.  Like P3 except has strings built in, piano on card.  Card
interchangable.  All from memory here so add appropriate disclaimers.

Chad

    re .28
    
    You could be right; it might be the TX1P that I was thinking of, and 
    if so obviously my recollection of a $300 price was wishful thinking.
    
    But isn't the TX1P 'just' a piano module?  The unit I'm thinking
    of had strings(choir?) and sampled bass sounds also.
    
    re UK price of a few replies back.
    	What's that in $US?  I'm not up on my currency exchange rates.

    Rodney M.
    

    UK<->US price on this gear is generall pound for dollar. 
    
    (But PK does some idiosyncratic deals Up North, so prices he quotes may
    be artificially cheap).      
    
    Richard.
    

I did find some info on the Korg units mentioned in .29.

From Music Technology, AUG 88:

"Symphony features seven selectable onboard sampled sounds, including 
strings, brass, choral, organ, bass and guitar, and promises high-capacity
ROM cards to fill in with acoustic instruments and synthesized sounds.  Up to
eight different sounds amay be played simultaneously, and layer and split
functions provide flexibility in piling up the sounds.

The P3 Piano Module produces sounds of two different acoustic pianos as well
as of several different electric versions. Features include 16-voice
polyphony, a slot for additional ROM cards, and several operating modes -
normal, split, and multimbral."

No prices were mentioned; apparently Korg doesn't "do" suggested retail
prices these days, but "these units are both being touted as extremely
affordable".  Whatever that means.

The Symphony unit sounds like what I'm looking for, if "extremely affordable"
means in the $300 range (sure, Rodney).  Anybody know for sure what these
go for? Anybody heard one?

I'll see if I can dig up some info on the Yamaha unit this weekend.

Rodney M.

    

  re the Yamaha box ..

  This is called something like the EWM-10. It is a product of Yamaha's
  home organ division (does this make it the Yamaha equivalent of the 
  MT-32 ??). Here in the UK it costs about 300 pounds, which is about
  300 dollars (or 64 million lira :-)

  I believe that it contains 3 piano sounds, 2 electric piano sounds,
  2 bass sounds, 2 or 3 strings and 2 or 3 brass sounds. I haven't 
  heard one yet, but it's had fairly rave reviews. 

  I imagine it won't be long before one finds it's way into the
  Paul Kent attic  :-)

  Cheers,

      Derek.

    re .31
    	Rodney, I took a look at the Symphony module a couple months
    back, when they first came out.  I was (and am) looking for a module
    to add to my KAWAI K5 - R50 setup which would give me additional
    voices, more variety, and more flexibility.  I was not impressed
    with the Symphony at all.  Other than some of the chorus "voices",
    the sounds were not original or very realistic, for being samples.
    My dealer steered me towards the KAWAI K1, which I am not sure is
    in the same category but does give me more of what I mentioned above.
    Based on the price he shot me, I did not even think twice about
    it (unfortunately I forgot what it was!).
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen
    
    PS Because of the name I was looking for this KORG module to provide
       a bunch of great symphonic sounds............not quite.