Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    From the ads I've seen, I'd tend to doubt that statement. (But everyone
    knows I'm a cynic by nature.)
    
    The user interface on the MIDI-DJ looks incredibly clean, which
    probably means hard to use. Pick a parameter, pick a value would
    be my guess.
    
    Is the MDJ software driven? The Roland unit will have a longer
    usable life expectancy because it's updated via software. Maybe
    the MDJ is also...
    
    Edd with_an_MC500_on_his_Tax_refund_wish_list

    Well, I don't know about software updates for the MDJ, but re-reading
    the article it sounds *exactly* like what I need (and that is a
    fast-access performance-oriented sequencer).  Some key points:
    
    	o The company stresses its ease of use
    	o Quantizing
    	o Un-mixing (lets you edit each channel independently)
    	o Save about 45,000 notes per disk (say, 3 or 4 songs?)
    	o "Entertain" mode, which provides a special fast-access for
    	   live performance.
    	o Accepts voicing dumps from voice programmable synths.
    
I'm going to talk to Jeff at Union Music tomorrow about it, and probably
    go play with it tomorrow night.  
    
    More input to came after first-hand experience.
    
    RB

    
    Howard Goldman Music Supply for mail order carries these.
    
    (check 'dealer' note or contact me!)

    I have specs somewhere that he sent....
    
    Price is good, vs. not as big a company as Roland.

    Bet Howie will beat your union price. UPS 3 days COD.
    
    Anything wrong, he replaces. He keeps computer records
    of serial numbers/purchases for warrenty info. nice touch.
    
    Ron, I am looking at this unit too....lets hear what your findings.
    
    rj
        

    I just talked with Jeff at Union Music -- I think this thing sounds
    fantastic for the price!
    
    I first asked him if the MDJ could store all info (drum mach. patterns,
    synth parts, patch changes, tempo changes, etc.) on one floppy,
    like the Mc500.  He said it could.
    
    He told me each disk (5 1/4" floppy) could hold 45,000 notes, or
    about 4-5 *not-really-complex* songs.  Access is direct from the
    disk; i.e., no loading of the entire disk to internal memory first.
    Each song takes 5 seconds to load, so that will be the longest
    time-between-tunes in a live situation.  The "Entertain" mode will
    automatically queue up the next song on the disk at the end of the
    previous song, or it will automatically start the next song 5 seconds
    after the previous one finishes!  Nice touch, again for live playing
    (when you're a musical protitute, you gotta keep the people dancin'!)
    
    This is definitely a performance oriented sequencer, so the above
    might not seem like much if you only use it for home studio use.
    
    For my use, it sounds fantastic;  and all this for a Union-quoted
    
    			$495!!

    I think I'm all set . . .
    
    Ron

    I have a friend who is a musician.  He would like to use some of his
    MIDI'ed equipment as backup on his gigs, but he is reluctant to take
    his computer on stage.  Therefore, he is looking for a portable,
    reliable, MIDI sequencer that can hold lots of notes but isn't too
    expensive.  I told him I'd keep my eyes open for such a beast, 
    and this topic caught my attention. 
    
    I went to Daddy's Junky Music last night to check out the MIDI DJ. 
    They didn't have one, but I did get a chance to try the Korg SQD-1 
    and the Roland MC500, the only portable sequencers they had 
    which include removable media. 
    
    Reading the Korg manual, dated 1985, I encountered a show-stopper:
    it does not record the MIDI channel!  I pointed this out to the
    salesman, who assured me that Korg had recognized the problem, 
    and claimed that the unit had been updated to correct this deficiency 
    as soon as it arrived in the store.  However, he did not have 
    a correction sheet for the manual, and had to call his technical
    backup to find out how the machine worked.  His backup person 
    described the new operation but also revealed that the Korg 
    only handles 16 simultaneous notes, and (if I remember correctly) 
    does not memorize System Exclusive.
    
    I rejected the Korg and studied the Roland MC500.  It holds only 27,000
    notes in memory (in 8 songs) but its 3 1/2 inch "floppy" holds 100,000
    notes.  Time to load a full memory is 30 seconds. The unit seems to
    have only two deficiencies: it only handles System Exclusive messages
    up to 300 bytes long, and it doesn't record release velocity.  I don't
    use release velocity, so I can live with not recording it, but my
    friend's TX7 does use long System Exclusive messages when dumping and
    loading patch banks.  The manual suggests methods to work around this,
    but the procedures are cumbersome. 
    
    I have rejected the MC500 also, because of its problem with System
    Exclusive and because of its high price.  I haven't been able to
    find much about the MIDI DJ: the only reference in Keyboard seems
    to be a classified ad from someone in Germany, apparently selling
    DX7 voices on MIDI DJ disks.  If that guy is for real then the MIDI
    DJ must be able to handle long System Exclusive messages.  I would
    rather have a 3 1/2 inch disk than a 5 1/4 inch disk, because of
    the greater ruggedness and higher capacity, but I'm willing to
    compromise to get a lower price than the MC500.
    
    Therefore, I, too, am interested in this unit.  If you get one,
    please share your experiences with us.
        John Sauter

    Re: .5
                                                     
    I own an MC-500 and a TX7.  While it is true that the MC-500 doen't
    accept system exclusive bulk dumps of all 32 TX7 patch data, you
    can store 1 patch at a time.  I've stored TX7 patch data in songs
    and during song execution, the MC-500 transmits the patch data to
    the TX7 current patch buffer (not permanent).  I can do this multiple
    times and it doesn't affect the timing of the song. I also have
    'songs' that are nothing but TX7 patch data.  Since the MC-500 software
    is disk based, in order to do bulk dumps would only require an
    enhancement to the MRC-500 software.  The MC-500 does store bulk
    dumps for Roland gear including Alpa Junos, Super Jupiter, JX10,
    TR707, so I don't think there is a 300 byte limit on system exclusive
    messages.

    Dave (who is very happy with the MC-500)
    
    PS:  I have a friend who purchased a Korg SQD sequencer and returned
         after 3 days, saying it was hard to use, raft with bugs, lacking
         in functionality and summed it up as 'junk'.

    Well, after studying and talking to people yesterday about the MIDI
    DJ, I was pretty much set.  I mean, you can't beat it for the price.
    
    So then, the real test.  I went to Union and saw it.  There it was,
    this little black box with a disk drive, four buttons, and a small
    four digit LED display.  How archaic, I thought.  Well, cosmetics
    aside, I started learning about what the machine could do.  Jeff,
    the salesperson, showed me the extensive menu chart.  Basically,
    the machine works by calling horizontally and vertically through
    this menu system, where the four front panel buttons perform the
    tasks of:  advance in the menu, change a parameter.  Jeff said that
    after working with it for an afternoon he had just about all of
    the menu functions down, and could record without the use of the
    chart.  All my questions concerning the unit were answered in an
    affirmative way; e.g., I asked if a "swing" pattern could be
    programmed, and at first he wasn't sure, so he called the rep. and
    said that it could swing.
    
    So then I went to Wurlitzers and the salesman said comparing the
    DJ to an MC500 was like V.W.s to Porches.  Oh well.  And looking
    at the Mc500 again, it did look much nicer than the MDJ.
    	_Enough of the story; 
    
    One drawback I see from the Mc500 is that in a live situation you
    must preload each song for the next setfrom disk to internal memory,
    one at a time (each one could take 15 seconds).  Thus, if in the
    middle of the set you want to add a song that
   's not already in the internal, you must find it on the disk (amongst
    the other 20 songs or so), and wait 15 seconds to load it.
    
    The MDJ loads one song at a time, which takes about 5 seconds.
    
    I don't know . . . the MDJ is probably exactly what I need for half
    the price, so I'll probably go with it.  More to come -
    
    Ron

    re: .6--I have no doubt that the limitation on the length of system
    exclusive messages could be overcome with updated software, but
    I see no evidence that the software will ever be updated, and the
    manuals don't tell you how to modify the software, or write your
    own.
    
    My information on the 300-byte limit came from the manual.  It stated
    explicitly that the MC500 could not handle a full dump from a DX7
    or TX7, and in a footnote in the back stated that the limit on the
    size of a System Exclusive message was 300 bytes.  I assume therefore
    that the other equipment you mentioned uses less than 300 bytes
    per message in its bulk dumps.
    
    Yes, it is possible to store voices one at a time, but that is tedious
    when you have lots of voices and want a convenient way to archive
    them.  I'm looking forward to learning about the MIDI DJ.
        John Sauter

    
    The Fb01 has a coupla very long SysEx dumps  of
    its internal voice and configuration data.

    way over 300 bytes. And it also will take that
    format back to change voice data and config.
    
    Of course there are several shorter messages you can use...
    
    rr
    

    So far I haven't heard anything about the MDJ's editing facilities,
    which are for me one of the MC500's most valuable features.
    
    Also, there *will* be new MC500 software, as Roland is working on
    it now, and I just sent them a lengthy set of proposed enhancements
    for the MC500.
    
    len.
    

    It's been a couple of months since the last reply about the Midi
    DJ. Has anyone learned any more about it? Do you still think it's
    a good unit for the money? After a couple of months of additional
    scrutiny, has anyone determined how well it stacks up against the
    MC500?
    
    Mike_D_who_can't_afford_an_MC500
    

    re: -.1  Better throw in the QX5 for comparison too since it can
    be had for around $450.  It has only about 15K note storage, but the use
    of macros really expands its capabilities.  No dump to internal
    disk, but other storage via MIDI can be had.
    
    Steve

    I think the QX5's got the lowcost sequencer market sewn up just
    now.  Roland's about to bring out a cost reduced defanged MC500
    (probably no disk drive) that will compete head to head with
    the QX5, but I don't know when it'll be available.  The QX5 will do almost
    everything an MC500 will, plus a few other cute things.  The only
    real advantage to the MC500 is the possibility of new software,
    and the builtin disk (I hear the QX5/external disk drive doesn't
    quite provide the same disk functionality that the MC500's builtin
    drive does).  Note however that Roland has yet to release a new
    version of the MC500 that does more than fix a few really obscure
    bugs.  Maybe they'll release the MC500 internal programming specs,
    so we can tweak it ourselves (uh oh, I think my network partner
    is getting excited...)
    
    len.
    

	Since there's not been a 'user's review' done in this topic, I thought
I'd put in my two cents worth.  I've owned my MIDI DJ for a number of months
now and have some useful info to pass on to would-be buyers (if you can still 
find one of these).

	I picked mine up on the used market for a very good price and when I 
opened the box up to look at it, it had never been used (no I didn't meet the
guy in a dark alley...).  Apparently the guy who owned it bought it along with
an S-50 and never even got around to trying it.  He let it sit in his studio
for two years before he decided to turn the cash around.

	First of all, let me state up front that the single most frustrating
aspect of this sequencer is that it HAS NO MERGE FACILITY!  You cannot play
along with it on the same SGU.  If it weren't for the lack of this one feature,
I think this product would have become MUCH more popular.  I'm amazed that
anyone would manufacture a sequencer without it!  There IS a merge facility
built in to it, to be fair, but it only works when the unit is not in play
or record mode.  I actually called National Logic to verify this.

	Frustrations aside, I have to say that it's a very pleasant beast to
work with, when you consider that it only has four buttons to access a good
number of useful features.  It is a two track sequencer and both tracks are
FULLY independent, not a track and a subtrack (like the QX7/QX21).  Because
of this, it uses both tracks to do some things that I hadn't found in other
sequencers.  One very nice feature is channel isolating.  You can set channels
mute so as to copy one channel over to the other track for editting, or even
for removal.  I like this.  It is also smart enough to erase the previous
channel of material when you merge them back (saves a step or two).

	As mentioned earlier, all functions are in menu configurations on both
vertical and horizontal planes.  It does not take long to get used to these,
and I only have to refer to the map (a VERY useful piece of the doc set) for the
more esoteric features.  A foot switch can also be used to step downward in the
menus.

	Another shortcoming of the unit is that (as far as I can tell) it can't
start playing a sequence from anywhere but the beginning.

	A feature I haven't used yet (and may never, since I use software 
sequencers for most of my development work) is gated step-time entry.  This
is a feature wherein you can specify (note-by-note if you want to, I believe)
the duration of the notes you enter.

	I use the DJ for quick access to songs that were already prepared on my
software-based sequencers.  This is where the DJ shines out the most.  As 
mentioned in earlier notes in this topic, the disk access is VERY fast.  You
can set it up to play song after song with only five seconds between or there is
a more useful 'pause mode' which awaits for your command to start the next song.
It will automatically cue up the next song sequentially on the disk and wait.  
You have a choice of either hitting the start button (or the footswitch), or you
can direct it to any other file on the disk for load.  Then it will await the 
start command for THAT song.

	On the whole, the MIDI DJ is a mixed blessing for me.  I'd love to be 
able to play my multi-timbral SGU's along with the DJ without having to buy,
lug around, and hook up another box (MIDI merge).  But it is an ideal tool for
the performance oriented MIDIot with it's instant access to songs.  I wish the
company would consider a software rewrite to allow merge.

	Dan

    Thanks, Dan.. though it doesn't merge itself, it should work in
    the following config, live MIDI channels merged with the DJ ?
    Also, you stated it is a 'two track' unit.. could I create multi-
    MIDI-channel tracks on my MAC and load the DJ with ALL recorded
    MIDI channel info at once ? - karl
    
    +---------+
    |MIDI DJ  |
    +---- ----+      +-----------------------
         :............MIDI IN
                     |          KX88
                 .....MIDI Thru
                 :   +-------------------------
             +--------------+
             | splitter box |
             +-- ----- --- -+
                :     :   :
         +------+ +----+ +------+
         | SGU  | |SGU | | SGU  |
         +------+ +----+ +------+

RE < Note 690.15 by SALSA::MOELLER "Veni, Veni, Veni... <whew!>" >

	Yes, your scenario would work jus' fine so long as the KX does the 
merge.

	What you're suggesting is exactly what I do - create multi-channel
sequences on the 'puter and play them onto a track of the DJ.  I then store the
track onto disk and voila (or is it cello?).

	Ther are some other nice features about the machine that might be of 
interest (things I didn't think of until I was done with the previous review).
For one thing, it supports all time signatures from 1/96 to 99/1.  It will hold 
in internal memory up to 12,000 notes.  It records system exclusives with no 
problem (I've used it for my TX81Z).  Tempo from 1 - 255 beats/minute.  It 
stores tempo in the sequence (but cannot be altered while song is playing [i.e.
no real-time access]).  Quatization supported (up to 96 units/measure).  Uses 5�
inch disks.  Has a 'click'-type sync in/out (not FSK).  You can transpose keys
via a configuration menu option...

	Dan

    Dan - you mentioned in 1850 that these units can still be had. Where,
    and at roughly what price? 

    Since I have about 1500 5�" floppies in a drawer, this just might
    be a useful thing to have around ...

-b (with $$$ to spend)

    
    Union Music in Worcester, MA has one new one left for $250.
    Call Jeff at 617-753-3702.  They might be willing to ship it or
    maybe you could find a sympathetic MA noter to do it for you.
    
    

RE < Note 690.18 by BERING::ROST "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" >

	I think that one might be gone.  I saw one in the -ADS for $300.  I have
a catalog of a (mostly) software distributor that wants in the excess of $400
for them.  Personally, I wouldn't pay that much for them.

	Dan