Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    There is a volume control in the MIDI specifications.  The only
    synths that I know about which use it are the Yamaha DX7 and TX7.
    On the DX7, at least, it appears to function by binary shifting
    of the digital output, before the D/A.  This loses, since it decreases
    the effective number of bits entering the D/A.  As a result I always
    keep the MIDI volume up to full (7) and use the on-board slider
    to control volume.
    
    The TX7 has a mode whereby it can take the data slider of the DX7,
    over MIDI, as its volume control.  This feature of the TX7 doesn't
    seem to suffer the same problem as the DX7's MIDI Volume
    implementation.
    
    What's wrong with reaching for a mixer knob during a live performance?
        John Sauter

    John, what's the hex-code for that message? 
    I'd like to see if I'm sending it from the 21...
    
    Thanks
    
    Edd  (who was reading the 1.0 specs over morning coffee and didn't
          see a thing about volume. Foiled again...)
    
          

    
    	My KX88 can broadcast on two MIDI channels simultaneously. 
    Also, it has 2 foot-pedal jacks.  I haven't looked it up but
    ASSUME that they can be set to affect separate MIDI channels.
    
    	Why would anyone want to play live?  :-)
    
    							- Karl

    The channel volume message is number 7 of the controllers.  Roland's
    MKS-80 SuperJupiter and JX-10 SuperJX both respond to MIDI volume,
    and as far as I can tell they do it right (none of this shift bits
    off the end stuff).  The Juno-106 DOES NOT support MIDI volume.
    As it is a controller message, most synths that I'm aware of DO
    NOT send it as a consequence of moving the synth's volume control.
    You have to assign a controller to this function.  Most synths only
    receive and interpret the message.  The JX-10 will send it on two
    additional channels independent from its send/receive channels,
    but only when you select a patch, and you cannot change it
    continuously.  I have an MC500 sequence (hand coded) which transmits
    channel volume messages as a crescendo for test/checkout purposes.
    (I'm building up quite a library of such test sequences.)
    
    You can get stereo (two channel) volume pedals routinely (Roland makes
    a nice one, with a minimum volume setting), and I think Morley now
    makes a 4 channel volume pedal. 

    len.
    

Yeah, one of the standard MIDI messages is volume. Of course, it depends on
the manufacturer whether to implement it on a given synth. It can also be
enabled/disabled on a per-patch basis.  

I think there's really 2 problems in one here. 1) How do you set the levels,
given that some patches are louder than others, and you might be using lots
of different patch combinations in quick succession and 2) How do you
expressively control the dynamics while you're playing. Problem 1) might be
solved by having a sound engineer who is REALLY on top of the arrangements,
so as you change patches s/he changes levels on the board. Then problem 2)
can be solved with just enough aftertouch/foot/breath/wheel controllers to
put real-time expression in what you're playing. If you DON'T have such a
great sound engineer you're essentially going to have to "reach over" to the
mixer during performance yourself. If you pick the right synths/patches, or
if you get a MIDI controller mixer (is there such a thing yet?) you can do
this through MIDI and have a much easier time.

I don't know if the synth you have (Juni-106)has enough programmable
controllers to make this feasible.

The Yamaha KX series (the only one I can speak of authoritatively) is good
about having lots of controllers that can be assigned to whatever MIDI
channel/message you want. E.g. with four sliders, 2 wheels, 2 footpedals,
breath control and aftertouch available I could potentially control 4 synths
simultaneously pretty well. I'd probably use the sliders to set the levels
and the other controllers for dynamics/articulation.

Don.

    The Juno has no assignable controllers.  You could conceivably get
    a "remapping" box that would convert one kind of message to some
    other kind of message, but the Juno only emits system exclusive
    messages in response to front panel parameter changes, and I don't
    the remappers can remap system exclusive.
    
    These problems are being addressed in more modern synths.  The JX-10
    for example (sorry to keep bringing it up, but Roland got an awful
    lot of it right) has five separate ways of controlling volume -
    within a tone, via level parameters (one for each oscillator) on the
    oscillator mixer and a VCA level parameter, and, within a patch, via a
    total volume parameter.  Then there's the front panel volume control,
    and the MIDI volume.  And I'm not including the three position slide
    switch on the back (L/M/H level output).  Still, the factory presets
    vary all over the map with respect to total volume, so "normalizing"
    all your patches' volume levels with respect to one another is
    something you have to do yourself.
    
    The Juno only has a VCA level parameter, and that's the only way
    you can normalize patch volume.  Likewise the Super Jupiter (there's
    a tone mix balance control (there's an analogous control on the
    JX-10), but it's not adequate for patch total volume).

    So, I'd recommend:
    
    	1) Normalize patch volumes within the synth using whatever
    	   means it provides (at worst, VCA level; at best, patch volume).
    
    	2) Balance the synths with respect to one another using their
    	   master volume controls.  You may be able to do this at the
   	   mixing board too.
    
    	3) Control performance levels with pedal volume controls
    	   (single multichannel or multiple single channel depending
    	   on your expressive needs).
    
    len.
    

    
    As you would expect after the recent expense I've got to vote for
    the Master keyboard approach here. Whilst I can see that volume
    control is gonna be the biggest need whilst playing live I can't
    help but think that there are lots of other things you're going
    to want to do via midi that you will possibly only get with a master. ]
    Not to mention the keyboard itself.  The KX and one or two others
    I've seen allow almost infinite and varied control of the various
    controllers via pedals and all sorts of devices. The biggest problem
    is deciding which one to use. Does any body out there really use
    a breath controller?
    
    			Paul.
    

    
    The AXESS MAPPER allows translation of any incoming midi
    message (even a certain note on/off) into other midi
    messages...including sys. exclusives. 
    
    You dont need a master kbd. necessarily, just Some midi
    kbd(s) and a unit like this....(big bucks tho, $995 list)
    
    ron

    

    Thanks for all the responses to date.
    
    Regarding the reason playing with sliders on a mixer during a
    preformance is not acceptable, it's physically impossible to play a
    keyboard with two hands and diddle sliders at the same time.  Most of
    the time, I play with both hands, and expect to do that even more if I
    get a master controller like a KX88.  Plus, ever try doing patch
    changes AND playing AND twiddling knobs AND singing harmony vocals AND
    putting on a show at the same time?  Not easy.  No wonder most pop
    keyboard players either have a boring stage presence or an excellent
    roadie who does the button pushing, etc. for them!!  For example,
    read the article in this month's _Keyboard_ magazine about Jonathan
    Cain from Journey.
    
    		Derek who_is_lusting_after_a_KX88
    

    
    Same issue KBD mag (oct 86) p 117 

    "Synths in Live Performance: Controlling volumes..."

    rr
    

    "CAIN" is in the NOV '86 issue starting on page 99 - FYI.

    ok, different issue,
     Oct correct...