Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    See my report in 468.53 or so.  I'll repost it here if that makes
    sense.
    
    len.
    

    Preference, first to nth:

    707 } really a 
    909 } toss up
    505 with reverb.
    505 without reverb.
    Fried Mozzerella.
    Giving Len a hard time.
    The Tall One. Waitress, that is.
    Garlicy mushy stuff (That's homus, Rik).
    The controversy over the 3rd glass of wine.
    The other 2 glasses of expensive white swill.
    Trying to talk after the 3rd glass of wine.
    Listening to Len count.
    Listening to Len count without reverb.
    Len's cat.
    RX21
            
    end of list. Where's the tape?
        

    What's wrong with my cat?
    
    len.
    

    Revised Preference, first to nth:

    707 } really a 
    909 } toss up
    505 with reverb.
    505 without reverb.
    Fried Mozzerella.
    Giving Len a hard time.
    The Tall One. Waitress, that is.
    Garlicy mushy stuff (That's homus, Rik).
    The controversy over the 3rd glass of wine.
    The other 2 glasses of expensive white swill.
    Trying to talk after the 3rd glass of wine.
    Listening to Len count.
    Listening to Len count without reverb.
    RX21
    Len's cat.
            
    there. It wouldnt purr and it left hair all 
    over my nice clean pants. Nice door stop, tho.        

    Ron_who_has_3
    

    Well, ya know guys, I *know* for a fact the John "Bonzo" Bonham
    actually *preferred* HEAVILY damped toms... He KNEW good sound!
    The ONLY reason he didn't record them like that was because he
    had to compete against Page's ego_rubbing_wall_of_sound. Seriously.
    He used to put QUILTS over the heads! Sometimes he even took the
    heads off and just hit the quilts! 
    
    ...AND ANOTHER THING! There is no disputing the fact that none
    other than JOE WALSH *prefers* nasal sounds. Check out "Rocky
    Mountain Way". The James Gang fell apart because the drummer
    couldn't emulate Joe's voice...
    
    OOOOOOOOOOhhhhh!!!! OooooHH!  MAD DOG!!!!  Anyone who is even
    marginally versed in rock n' roll history is aware that...
    
                        *RINGO STARR*
    
    HATED, DETESTED, DISPISED, and otherwise had no respect for
    *ride* cymbals. To this day, he blames George Whats_his_name_
    the_producer for CORRUPTING his pure, clean as the driven snow
    sound.
    
    And none of the professionals *I* ever met played the drums while
    the sound man was checking levels!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Now, put that in your over_sampled, over_reverberating, too_good
    to_be_real drum machines and beat it!!!!!!
    
    Thank You Fer Yer Suppert
    
    Edd  who_digs_Lens_cat_even_though_it_has_no_ride
    
    
    P.S. Ya wanna ride cymbal??
    
    RIDE:==     There!!
    
     
    

Drums.

Different.

Subjectivity.


Meow for now...

Todd_the_tapeless (Mailstop MR01-2/G6).

    Don't forget there are lots of other things (besides sound) to consider
    when buying a drum machine; e.g.:
    
    	price
    	MIDI implementation (send/receive channels, channel per voice?,
    		system exclusive, etc.)
    	price
    	capacity (pattern length, # patterns, #songs, length of songs)
    	price
    	ease of programming
    	price
    	size, weight, shape, rack mountability, ruggedness (if going
    		on the road is an issue)
    	price
    	reliability
    	price
    	vendor support and reliability (so far, only Linn's folded)
    	price
    	separate outputs, separate volume controls, tunable pitches,
    		other such things
    	price
    	rememberable or programmable tempo
    	price
    	etc.
    
    We just looked at sound (listened to appearance?) in the faceoff.
    
    Sorry about saying all those "snotty" (get it - "nasal" - hahhahhahhah)
    things about the RX21, Edd, but it's not alone.  I listened to about
    6 drum machines before I decided on the 707 and I've never regretted
    it.  Some people actually *like* that kind of drum and cymbal sound.
    A lot of other machines sound like that.  But my Ludwigs and Zildjians
    *don't* sound like that.  I could make them sound like that, but it would
    be wrong.
    
    And I can *almost* make my 909's toms sound like that, I just don't
    usually want to.  The RX's toms sound like like some real toms I've heard
    that had sponges taped to the heads.  Again, some drummers *prefer*
    that kind of sound.  If you like it, tell the rest of us to just
    go f**k off.

    The tape is on the way to Todd, who should forward it to Dan Eaton
    who posted his address in the other note, who should forward it
    to Ron Ross, who I think asked for it (or maybe he just wants to
    know where it is).
    
    len.
    

    
    Sure. Why not. If there's no cat fur on it. MLO 21-4 E10
    
    Agree on aspect of some subjectivity in the 'verdicts'.
    Price/Performance is to me a heavily weighted term.
    
    Ron
            

Re: cats
    
    I like cats.  So they shed.  So do you (unless you're bald).  I own
    several cats and would rather tolerate them than many musicians I know.
    Len - I will apologize to you cat for all of us; hope it understands
    that we humans just aren't purrfect yet.  Thus ends my cat-tale. 

;-}

    
    
    I'd say I'll have to pick the 707 as my first choice.  Besides,
    it has really nice orange colors on it.  I wish roland would make
    a machine with the drums of the 707 and the cymbals of the 909.
    Unfortunately, the 909 drums are too "Simmonsy" for my taste.
    
    The 505 is a decent bang for the buck but the way it gates alot
    of its sounds bugged me.
    
    My next favorite of the night was the redhead at the next table
    that Rik pointed out.  I wish Roland made a machine with the
    707's drums and the 909's cymbals that looked that good.
    
    Last and least, the RX21 (sorry Edd).  How anyone could make a
    drum machine without a ride cymbal is beyond me.  The sounds in
    it are fine if you like listening to drums from another room.
    
    All in all, it was very interesting to say the least.  Nice to
    finally put some faces to some of the names in this conference.
    
    One thing I have to ask Len, do you ever have dreams of giant killer
    books attacking you?
    
    Ralph
    

    No worries about giant killer books, but a long time ago when I
    used to sleep on a mattress on the floor right in front of the bookcase
    I used to dream about it (the bookcase) falling over on me...
    
    Besides, my cat will protect me.

I recieved the tape yesterday.  Thanks Len.  Sorry I had to leave early guys.
I hate to leave before the job is done...

Thanks to Len and Merlin for doing the 6+ hours of MC500 programming.  This
must have been sheer torture on poor old Merlin who obviously would have 
rather been playing with the mouse on the Amiga...

Todd.

    	It's been a while, and there's been no word on the movement
    of the drum comparison tape.  Is it still in existance?  circulation?
    Was I by-passed?  Would the present holder please post an update?
    
    	Dan

That is *MY* fault.  I have been sitting on it because I wanted to make a copy,
but I never found the time to gather up another cassette deck.  Dumb reason as
I should have passed it on, and got it back to tape when everyone was done 
listening to it.

It's on the way to Dan Eaton today...

Todd.

	Tape off to Jim Ravan today.

	Dan Eaton

    
    	does anyone have any information concerning
    
    	tr606
    
    and/or
    
    	syntronics
    
    	drum machines.....
    
    	i know nothing of them but need the info to help in
    making the decision as to which drum machine i should buy.
    specifically, i'd like a comparison between these and the
    tr505 or tr707 which i know something about.
    
    thanks
    

    
    and the simmons sds1.
    any info on this would also be appreciated.
    thanks
    

    
   tr 606 is old. analog. no midi.
    worthless.
    

Synsonics drums are analog in sound.  Has a primative built-in sequencer,
and has 4 built in pads on the top that can be hit with drum sticks.
It has 4 sounds (snare, hihat, fixed tom, and adjustable pitch tom).
It also has a series of 3 buttons per sound.  One button plays quarter
notes along with the built-in metronome (if held down continously), one 
button plays eigth notes, and one button plays sixteenth notes.

I have one that I no longer use since I have a TR505.  I will sell it for
$40 or so.  I paid $150 when it first came out at Wurlitzer's...

Todd.

Oh, the Synsonics are pre-MIDI.

Also, the simmons SDS-1 is not a drum machine.  It is a single pad with
a single PROM containing a single sampled drum sound.

    
    re:19, 20
    thanks for the info.
    
    1. how primitive is the sequencer?
    2. how primitive are the sounds (hi-hat, snare, fixed tom)?
    
    is it possible to program a sequence and then play then pads along
    with the sequence?
    
    

    The Synsonics will allow you to program *1* measure and run it
    endlessly. But I bleeve you can 'embellish' it in real time.
    
    Given the trend in drum machine prices, I'd advise you to save your
    money, invest it in no-loads and wait.
    
    Of course, I bought an RX21. What do I know about drum machines?
    
    Edd

    I have had all three of these devices.  I still have and use my SDS-1.
    The Synsonics died, and I gave the 606 as a birthday present to
    someone who could use it.
    
    The TR606 is a useful "toy".  Its sequencer has some quite sophisticated
    editing features, if you can figure out how to use them.  The sounds
    are merely OK at best.  It is not MIDI compatible, but you can sync
    it to any Roland product that provides Roland "DIN sync", as either
    master or slave.  I used to use a TR606 to provide my "click track"
    when playing live with MIDI sequencers.
    
    The Synsonics is a *real* toy.  The sounds are not even OK.  The
    "sequencer" doesn't deserve the name.  Mine broke (one pad went
    dead) real quick.  It used to be made by Mattel.  Somebody else
    bought the rights and sells it now.
    
    Todd's right about the SDS-1.  I'll just add that the PROM is
    replaceable and there's a large library of sounds available for
    it.  The sounds are excellent.  It will accept an external trigger
    so if you have a MIDI-to-trigger converter you can drive it from
    MIDI.
    
    Of the three of these, only the 606 is a true drum machine, but the
    quality of the sounds is in the same league as drums sounds produced
    by an analog synth.
    
    I would only recommend the SDS-1, but I don't think it's what you're
    looking for.
    
    len.