Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    OK, when are people available next week for the rescheduled
    reverb-o-rama?  Todd Rhodes would also like a demo of the TR-707,
    so we can do that at the same time (perhaps by testing the reverbs
    on percussive sounds).
    
    I propose next Tuesday, 19 August.
    
    Rendezvous at Tom Foolery's beforehand for munchies and potables.
    
    Takers?  Bad date?  Speak!
    
    len.
     

    If you please, sir, I'd like to demo the cz101.
    on my limited budget I'm thinking of making this lofty purchase
    but I want to be sure that I'll be HAPPY with it. Which means, I
    don't want to buy a toy that sounds like a toy. I'd like to buy
    an inexpensive midi-able keyboard that sounds somewhat professional.
    
    Len, can you help?
    
    thanks
    rik
    

    No, because that'll just cause the same problem again: loosing notes.
    Thing to do is to keep a directory of interesting notes where everyone
    can find it.  A more general solution is to use the BOOK MARK feature
    of notes: see HELP MARK at the NOTES> prompt.  That lets you attach
    a meaningful name to a note, and recall the note by name, e.g.,
    REVERB_COMPARISON, TR505, etc.  If only I had been doing this all
    along...

    Len,        
    
    Tuesday the 19'th or any day that week is fine with me (with a few
    days notice).  
    
    Also, I think I'm going to hit up LaSalle's and see if they will
    let us borrow an SPX-90 to demo.  It's worth a try. 
    
    Alternately, does anyone else have a good rapport going with them 
    (I usually shop at Wurlizers so...) and thinks they have a better 
    shot at getting them to agree to lend us one? 
                                                
    Fredric     DVINCI::CERTO
    

    Count me in on Tuesday.
    
    Todd.
    

    We still on for Tuesday the 19th Reverb-o-rama (competeing with
    the Yamaha clinic at Kurlian's in Worcester)?  The following
    people expressed interest last time:
    
    	Edd JAWS::Cote
    	Todd BARNUM::Rhodes
    	John DSSDEV::Sauter
    	Scot HYDRA::Aurenz
    	Chris APOLLO::Dehahn
    	Dave JUNIOR::Dreher
    
    plus anybody else who chimed in this time (forgot to look before
    I started typing this).
    
    Again, the drill is meet for munchies and potables at the Tom Foolery's
    at the intersection of Rts. 9 and 30 in Westborough at 6:30ish, then retire
    to my place (7:30ish) for a faceoff of (at least) the Roland SRV-2000 and
    the Alesis MIDIverb.  Possible participation of Dave's ART 01, and
    did I hear noises about an SPX-90?  Also on the agenda a demo of
    the Roland TR707.
    
    I will send out directions later today.
    
    len.
    

    

    OK, I've been back over the notes and need to add
    
    	Rik CAR::(?)Sawyer (OPERATOR?)
    	Fred DVINCI::Certo
    
    Rik wants to see 'ze CZ-101 also.
    
    len.
    

    Sorry, I won't be able to attend.  Too much distance + no car =
    leave me out.  :-(
        John Sauter

    I'll be three with midiverb in hand.
    
    Todd.
    

    I'll be three with hand in midiverb.
    
    Edd.

    len, sorry about the different nodes and names. I've been moved
    to salem and the systems are locked up tight. Getting an account
    that has access to teh real world is difficult.
    
    Yes, I'll be there around 6:30.
    I know where it is.
    
    see ya tonight.
    
    thanks.
    rik
    

    
    Hi, yes I'll be there and yes, guess what I've got in my car!!
    
    I talked with LaSalle and told them the set up, but the best they
    could do was let me rent (for $26 bucks) the SPX-90 (formerly they
    wouldn't even rent them).
    
    But did you know, (Yes, you heard it here first folks!) that there
    is a NEW MidiVerb product!  It is the MIDI-FX (sp?).  I'm anxiously
    awaiting a chance to check it out!  I got them to agree to throw it
    in on the rental deal of the SPX-90!!  
    
    So we've got two brand spankin' new units in sealed cartons to drool
    over! 
    
    Fredric         DVINCI::CERTO
    I can't wait!
    
    

    Everybody should have gotten mail with directions by now, unless
    I couldn't get to your node (JON::ROSS is giving me protection
    violations, and I don't know if I got to Rik at CAR::OPERATOR).
    WE will be in the lounge at TF's, which is to the right as you enter.
    You'll be able to tell us as we look and talk like music wierdos.
    Just listen for the secret password "Mitsubishi" AKA "Auntie Aliasing".
    
    len.
    

    You got me!
    and I have all the neccessarryy ddaattaa
    ssoooooo I'lll sseeeee yyoouuu ttoonniigghhtttttt
    
    attt Tom foolery's
    
    

    ... figured this would be the place to continue the low-end drum
    machine face-off discussion.
    
    Ok, Len, you win (loose?). We'll do it le Chateau d'Fehskens. But
    one caveat... my RX21 sounds best when I have a fresh 9V battery
    in my mixer. I trust your mixer will be similarly equipped?
    
    Edd

    My mixers are constantly supplied with fresh right-from-the-wall-
    spigot 117VAC.  But I'll tape a fresh 9V battery to it if it makes
    you feel better (don't even have to take it out of the bubble pack:
    how's that for *fresh*?).
    
    OK, now we need to play the "when-can-we-all-get-together" game.
    
    I assume the usual rules apply - meet at Tom Foolery's around 6:30,
    get fresh with Miss Mitsubishi and the button lady (why aren't there
    any female MIDIots?  Then we wouldn't have (be able?) to carry on
    so.  Maybe if it had been called FIDI?), then "retire" to the
    Chateau (Edd, has Cannes gone to your head?) (enough asides already)
    for yet another in our continuing series of whatever they are.

    So, we will have the following drum machinery in attendance:
    
    	TR505
    	TR707
    	TR909
    	RX21
    
    I assume the 505 uses the same note assignments as the 707 and 909.
    Edd, can you send me the note assignments for the RX21?  Then I
    can program up a sequence for the MC500 that will exercise each
    machine's snare, bass, etc. in turn.  I will put in velocity stuff
    so we can hear how each machine responds.  Are the 505 or RX21 limited
    in any was as to what channels than can receive on?
    
    Any other drum machines wish to participate?  (Dave D, has your
    LinnDrum been MIDIfied yet?  Here's your chance to dominate the
    proceedings with the best sounding piece of gear.)
    
    And who all is going to attend this extravaganza?  Last time we
    managed to squeeze 11 people in without too much falling all over
    one another.
    
    len.
    

    RX21 has no channel wierdisms....
    
    I just left a message on my answering machine reminding me to get
    the note info.... now I just have to remember to look at the machine.
    
    > Edd, has Cannes gone to your head?
    No, monsier. My head has gone to Cannes.
    
    Edd

I doubt that the TR505 has any MIDI weirdnesses, but as for the owner there
are no guarentees...

Now if I would only get the darn thing in the mail...

Todd.

    Here's the note data on the RX21...
                          
         Drum              Key        MIDI-note No.
    
         Bass Drum         A             45
         Tom 3 (low)       C             48
         Tom 2 (mid)       D             50
         Snare             E             52
         Tom 1 (hi)        F             53
         Clap              F#            54
         Hi-hat closed     A             57
         Hi-hat open       B             59
         Cymbal            C             60
                                           
    Does this compare diectly to TRXXXs? Or did Yamaha come up with
    some unique scheme?
    
    Edd

    
    	as to the face off.....I don't care when or where...
    	i'll be there.
    
    	i've got almost all the money saved up for....a 707?
    	but i'd like to hear all these units before i actually
    	purchase.
    		though i have a feeling the 707 is what i'll get.
    
    	rik s.
    

    Is the cymbal a ride or a crash?  If one, what about the other?
    Or is it both with some clever trick to make it sound like one or
    the other (e.g., velocity)?
    
    len.
    

    Crash. Real bad one. A disaster. ~1 second decay. Crash must have
    been an accident. Even Yamaha wouldn't do this on purpose.
    
    You might say I got taken on a ride. RX21 is rideless.
    
    Edd

Why can't someone come out with drum box with a crash cymbal sample 
that loops and decays gracely????  In my eyes, a muffled crash is 
useless.  If I really need a crash cymbal in a song, I'll have to 
break out one of my Zildjians and a mic...

Todd.

    
    I'd like to attend if theres enough room to squeeze one more person
    in.  I'm in the market for a drum machine (preferably Roland seeing
    thats what all my other stuff is).  I've used a 707 (my first choice)
    but my contact with a 505 was at Daddy's with about 10 other people
    in the store playing keyboards and cranking guitars, so I didn't
    get a fair listen to it.  Maybe it'll suit my needs and I can save
    some money.
    
    Has anyone decided when this will be?
    
    Ralph
    

   re. 23...
   >...crash cymbal sample that loops and decays gracefully????
    
    ... 'cuz there aren't any good loop points. Cymbals are all
    attack and decay. If you try to loop the decay part of the
    envelope, you'll get changes in level during the loop.
    Looping is used for sustain. Do cymbals sustain? Nope. They
    take forever to decay, though.
    
    Whucha need is a 10 minute sample time, 44 khz rate, and 
    memory up the wazoo. Or a Turk and a mike...
    
    Edd

    Hey, guys (and gals) we ain't supposed to be talking about drum
    machines here.  This is for demo planning.
    
    So, how about next Wednesday, the 17th?  Rendezvous at Tom Foolery's
    in Westborough around 6:30?  Earlier?  Later?  Another day?  Let's
    get this show on the road...
    
    len.
    

    
    
    Wednesday sounds good to me.  
    
    By the way, where is Tom Foolery's.  I know... Westborough, but
    where in Westborough?
    
    Ralph_looking_forward_to_being_there
    

    OK. Wednesday sounds good.
    
    Tom Foolery's is at the corner of rt9 and 30, westbound. Across
    from McDonalds. Go in and look for a blonde waitress and a dozen
    drooling midiots....
    
    Excuse us Leonard, we erred....
    
    Edd the_ashamed
    
    
    
    
    
    
    LOOP LOOP LOOP LOOP SAMPLE SAMPLE SAMPLE NYAH NYAH!!!!

    Edd, you planning on getting LOOPed and SAMPLEing that blonde?

    [now if i can just think of some clever way to work in NYAH NYAH...]
    

Wait a minute, you MIDIots!  I havn't gotten my TR505 yet!!!!
I'm still waiting.....  They said that they sent it out early last week,
so I will hopefully get it by Wednesday of next week, but you never
know.  It may really be out of stock, and they don't have guts to tell
me....

Todd (Orders_taken_while_you_wait...)

    Oh yeah, right. I suppose we *should* have a 505 if we wanna demo
    it. I'm so glad your sweatin' the small stuff Todd. How about we
    put Wednesday on as tentative and hope the Postal Gods smile on
    you?
    
    Tom F's , *B*T*W* , (oh, that was fun!) is about a mile west of
    495, on route 9.
    
    I'm gonna go there tonight and just wait...
    
    Edd

    
    If Todd's 505 doesn't arrive in time, and if anybody from the
    Mill area is going to the demo, I can lend my 505 overnight.
    I (blush) use it more often as a metronome than a drum machine.
    
    David
    

Geez David, I have a nice metronome at home if you wanna trade ;^)

Todd. (or_do_you_mean_MIDI_metronome?)

    It's starting to look like I may be out of town next Wednesday,
    and given the uncertainty about Todd's 505, I think we'd better
    plan on postponing this latest face off by a week.
    
    So - we're talkin' the 24th of September now.  Spread the word.
    
    len.
    

That's better for me.  I'm still waitin' for my TR505 - it looks like it
may have gotten lost...no telling when I'll see it...

Todd.

My TR505 is "lost".  More likely, "Stolen".  Profound is running a trace
on it thru UPS.  If it can't be found by tomorrow, they will ship out 
another one.

I guess that's what you get if you don't ship stuff in unmarked packages.
They shipped it in the original box with the words ROLAND TR-505 painted
all over it.  Might as well had labeled it "Use Caution - This Is A
Valuable Musical Instrument".

If they only had enough sense to put it in an unmarked box with the label
"Please Do Not Steal" :^)

Drum-o-rama is probably postponed until the week of the 29th unless we
get another 505.  I would rather wait and live with the thing for a few
days before the face-off so that I understand more about drum machines
though, but whatever is best for the group...

Todd (the_stealee).

    
    I have received stuff from Profound Sound, and it is true: they
    don't believe in wrapping paper.
    
    David
    

    I can use time anyway to program the MC500 with suitable drum riffs;
    then when we get together all we have to do is hook everything up and
    push START.  After an hour with you guys at Tom Foolery's, I'm not
    sure I want to try programming anything...
    
    len.
    

1.  Profound has agreed to send another TR505 to me.

2.  Problem: They are now out of stock until early next week.

3.  AM I GETTING SHAFTED?  Were they out of stock all along, and just made
	up this UPS ploy so that they could charge my Mastercard right
	away for an item that they knew would be out of stock for some time?

I'm pissed!  Anyone else run into a similar situation with Profound Sound?

I guess the Face-off waits...

Todd.

    In the future, get stuff sent COD!
    
    10 years in banking taught me *NEVER* give your MC/VISA, AmEx,
    or whatever card number to anyone.
    
    What's to keep them from putting through a DX7 on your number?
    Sure it gets "fixed" later, but *you* get to do all the leg
    work, while the dealer sits on your money. *You* are also out
    the available credit until the mistake gets fixed.
    
    I'm really surprised MC/Visa allows this.
    
    Edd
    

Here's the gush.  They sent out another TR505 yesterday (Monday), so I should
have it on Thursday or thereabouts.  Therefore we should reschedule the 
Face-off for sometime next week under the assumption that it will arrive
(dumb assumption?).

Any nite but Tuesday is fine for me...

Len?

Todd.

    How's about Wednesday or Thursday next week (that's 24 or 25
    September).  There's somebody who wants to come who can't make
    Wednesdays, I think (just to much MIDI junk to remember).
    
    Speak up, interested parties...
    
    len.
    

    Whoops, lost a week somewhere - that's 1 or 2 October!
    
    len.
    

Wednesday's better for me for no real important reason other than I usually
have lots of stuff to do on Thursdays.  Unless someone can't make it on
Wednesday, that's my vote....

Todd. (who_had_better_get_his_toy_very_soon_or_else...)

    What night does the button-lady work?
    
    Edd (who_can_afford_to_miss_Dynasty_on_Wednesdays)

    I can do either night...weeds. is fine
    

    
    Hoping that something happens to change it from
    wednesday.
    
    I would really like to participate.
    
    Weds. is bad, but I understand that it's hard to
    get folks together...
    
    Ron (with_drum_machine_on_the_Xmas_list)
    

    
    Wednesday is better for me.  I have school on Thursdays so that
    would pose a problem for me.
    
    Ralph_who_has_finally_saved_the_cash_to_buy_a_drum_machine!
    
    

    Looks like Wednesday, troops;  we'll make another hilarious tape
    for the benefit of those who can't make it.
    
    Same rules as usual - rendezvous at Tom Foolery's around 6 to 6:30,
    do irresponsible things for a while, then go do real work, slaving
    over those hot drum machines...
    
    TF's is at the intersection of Routes 30 and 9, on the westbound
    side of Route 9, in Westborough, about 3 miles west of 495.
    
    len.
    

I gut it!  One TR505 recieved on Friday.  This means that we're *ON* 
for Wednesday...

Todd.

    OK, we're on.  Anybody need directions or anything?  See you at
    TF's Wednesday 6ish.
    
    len.
    

    
    Gotta mention that ya gotta get there before
    6 to get free munchies...
    
    Cant wait...
    
    Ron_who_will_be_there_early_hopefully
    

    Ok, I'm all set.  Spent 6 hours last night (a fool and his time
    are easily parted) programming the MIDI drum track to drive four
    drum machines on 4 different channels with 46 representative examples
    in 52 patterns scattered over 500 bars.  The examples each repeat
    4 times on MIDI channels 1 through 4, and use snare, bass, three
    toms, opene and closed hihat, ride and crash cymbals.  It occurred
    to me as I finished up that all 4 machines (Roland TR-909 (a
    discontinued, but at the time, state of the art analog drum machine),
    TR-707 and TR-505, and Yamaha RX-21) have handclaps and a handclap
    example might be useful; maybe I can slap something together tonight
    in "real time".
    
    Anyway, for those who care, I programmed the basic patterns into
    my 707, then shipped the full 500 bar sequence over to the MC500.
    I couldn't use the MC500's rhythm track mainly because it doesn't
    allow multiple MIDI channels, and there's no convenient way of
    copying the rhythm track to one of the synth tracks (where the sequence
    ultimately had to reside to allow for multiple note assignments
    (the RX-21's note assignments don't resemble the Roland note
    assignments at all) and multiple channels).  Once I had the sequence
    in the MC500, I had to extensively edit it to get the velocity data
    in (several of the examples are crescendos to demonstrate each
    machine's velocity responsiveness); this took about 100 MC500
    editing operations (not including fixups after I discovered a bug
    in the MC500's documentation!).  Next, edit the channels; this
    took another 140 editing operations.  Finally, edit the RX-21 note
    numbers, one for each note of each example; another 450 edits.
    A few more edits to set the tempos (some examples required different
    tempos), a listening pass (with my SuperJupiter and Juno-106 filling
    in for the TR-505 and RX-21) to confirm that I got it all right
    (well, mostly all right, I only had to fix about a dozen mistakes),
    and we're all set for tonight.
    
    In retrospect, I don't know what came over me.  It seemed like a
    good idea at the time...   700 edits?  6 hours?  121 parts?  8 tracks?
    3 generations?  2 turtle doves?  
    
    The sequence runs about 17 minutes, and includes space for voice
    overs to identify the examples.  I will publish a listing of the
    examples in this note as part of the report on our findings.  The
    tape will be available for circulation (maybe I will make an 8 track
    copy at the same time as the cassette so I can easily make other
    cassette copies if anybody's interested).
    
    See ya all tonight at TF's, 6ish or earlier.  Participants forgoing
    the pre-demo "loosening up" session can meet us at my place 7:30ish,
    depending on how loose we get.
    

    len.
    

    IT'S TONIGHT???????  Uh-oh....           ;^)
    
    
    
    Seriously.. Len, it sounds like you outdid yourself (again, as usual).
    
    Your first beer is on me.....
    
    Edd
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
                  

We'll teach Len all the features of the MC500 one way or another   ;^)

Todd finally_the_MIDI_drummer.

    		Edd....will yu buy me a beer, too?
    	after all, I "hung in there" in actually reading all
    of Len's messages about what he was doing to prepare.
    Of course, I didn't understand any of it but I did read it.
    
    rik
    

    re .55 - yeah, there are flams in the examples.
    
    And yes, I am learning everything there is to know about the MC500,
    whether I want to or not!
    
    I wonder how much Roland would pay for an intelligible user's manual?
    
    Have we run out of things to compare?  Can I go back to sleep now?
    
    len.
    

    I'd like to do a comparison of picks.
    fenders/gibson/ernie ball...etc
    
    light/medium/heavy
    shaved/unshaved
    notched vs unnotched
    
    orange vs green vs brown....etc
    
    Len, could you set this up...?
    
    rik
    

    > Have we run out of things to compare?
    
    Gee, Len, I just bought this 12 channel board, see, and I was
    wondering...
    
    
    Edd

    
    and there's some buttons i'd like to compare.....
    
    how about marshalls vs boogies vs seymour duncan vs twins
    vs galen krueger vs.....
    
    or strats vs pauls ?
    
    all the different whammy bars?
    
    all the different pickups.....no Edd, not the ones with buttons.
     
    the list seems endless.
    
    rik
    

    Aaaa a a a
                a  a
                      a  a
                            a
                              a
                               a
                                r
                                 r
                                 r
                                 r
                                  g
                                  g
                                  g
                                   h
                                 splat.

    
    How about comparing comparisons?  We can compare tonights drum machine
    face-off with the MIDI-verb-orama held a while back.  Uh, never
    mind, I'll shut my mouth and go back to sleep.
    
    Ralphzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    
    

    Well, we done it again.  We ran the drum machine face off last 
    night, and here's the results.  Our select panel of judges included
    anybody who showed up, specifically Ron Ross, Todd Rhodes, Edd
    Cote, Ralph Crowley, Rik Sawyer and yours truly, Len Fehskens.
    The famous Stevie Klosterman joined us for the predemo elbow 
    bending exercises, but had to pass up the hard work to go rehearse
    with Jamaican Vacation's latest incarnation.
    
    My advance programming mostly worked out - we only found two 
    places where I had to go in and edit; and one squeaked by that we
    left in 'cause it wasn't that serious.  The only hitch was getting
    Edd's RX21 to listen to MIDI note data, which was made all the 
    more difficult by my switching the RX's MIDI feed to the Juno-106 
    rather than the MC500.  After a few minutes of button pushing and
    cable tracking and muttered imprecations, we got everything working.
    
    There are 46 examples on the tape.  Each example is preceeded by its
    number, so you can find things on the tape.  Each example consists 
    of the 4 drum machines doing their thing successively, always in 
    the order:
    
    	TR909
    
    	TR707
    
    	TR505
    
    	RX21

    The entire sequence of examples is recorded twice, the first time 
    without reverb, the second time with reverb.
    
    The comments made in the following are mine, and are somewhat 
    representative of the whole group's impressions.  I assume if they
    differ they'll let you know.
    
    Examples 1 through 6 were on the snare drum.  On the TR707, snare1
    was used.

         Ex. 1 - single hits
         
         Ex. 2 - single flams
         
         Ex. 3 - two beat 16th note fill
         
         Ex. 4 - two beat 16th note triplet fill
         
         Ex. 5 - 8th note crescendo; velocity values for successive 
         	 notes are 15, 31, 47, 63, 79, 95, 111, 127.
         
         Ex. 6 - 16th note crescendo over two bars; velocity values for
         	 successive notes are 3, 7, 11, 15, 19, 23, 27, 31, 35, 
         	 39, 43, 47, 51, 55, 59, 63, 67, 71, 75, 79, 83, 87, 91,
         	 95, 99, 103, 107, 111, 115, 119, 123, 127.
         
         General impressions:  the 909's snare was the most obviously
         synthetic.  The 909 snare was tuned toward the lower end of its
         range, but it was the highest pitched snare in the group.
         The 707, 505, and RX21 followed, with successively lower 
         pitches.  The 707, 505 and RX21 snares were all within the
         realm of "real" snare sounds.  The 707 and 505 were similar but
         distinguishable, and the RX21 has a kind of "nasal" quality. 
         much like the 707's snare2.  If my acoustic snare drum sounded
         like that, I would retune it.  The 707 and 909 exhibit the most
         linear sounding velocity response; the 505 seemed to have a 
         "step" at the low end, and the RX21 seemed to flatten out at 
         the high end.  These characterstics were true of all voices,
         not just the snare.
         
          
    Examples 7 - 13 were on the toms.
         
         Ex. 7 - single hits on high, medium and low toms.
         
         Ex. 8 - single flams on high medium and low toms.
         
         Ex. 9 - 4 beat fill with 16th notes, using all three toms
         
         Ex.10 - 4 beat fill with 16th note triplets, using all three 
         	 toms       
    
         Ex.11 - 8th note crescnedo on high tom.  Same velocity values
         	 as snare crescendo.
         
         Ex.12 - 8th note crescendo on medium tom.  Same velocity values
         	 as snare crescendo.
         
         Ex.13 - 8th note crescendo on low tom.  Same velocity values as
         	 snare crescendo.

         
         General impressions:  the 909 had the "fattest" but most 
         obviously synthetic toms.  The 707 and 505 were similar,
         both being very "pure" and almost too perfect to be true,
         but the 505's toms were lower pitched and had more room 
         ambience.  The 505's toms cutoff earlier than the 707's.
         The RX21 had the most heavily damped toms of the group.
         The 505's toms sounded the most realistic to me, except for
         their premature cutoff.
         
         
    Examples 14 - 18 were on the bass drum.  The 707's bass2 was used.
         
         Ex.14 - single hits.
         
         Ex.15 - 4 quarter notes.
         
         Ex.16 - 8th note crescendo.  Same velocity values as snare
         	 crescendo.
         
         Ex.17 - 8th notes, constant velocity.
         
         Ex.18 - 16th note pattern.
         
         
         General impressions:  all the bass drums had more "slap" than
         I am used to hearing, even from the drummer's position, as if
         a wooden beater were being used on a bare mylar head.  The 
         505's bass was like the 707's bass1, i.e., even more slap.  The
         RX21 had the highest pitched bass.  As usual, the 909's was 
         the most obviously synthetic, but still usable, especially 
         when not exposed by itself.
         
         
    Examples 19 - 24 were on the hihat.
         
         Ex.19 - single hits on closed hihat.
         
         Ex.20 - 4 quarter notes on closed hihat.
         
         Ex.21 - 8th note crescendo on closed hihat.  Same velocity
         	 values as snare crescendo.
         
         Ex.22 - 8th notes on closed hihat, constant velocity.
         
         Ex.23 - 8th notes, with open hihat closing on backbeat.
         
         Ex.24 - 16th notes on closed hihat.
         
         
         General impressions:  all the hihats were easily within the
         realm of "real" hihat sounds.  The RX21's was the "fattest",
         again showing a somewhat nasal quality.  Its open hihat was
         the brightest of the group.
         
         
    Examples 25 - 29 were on the ride cymbal.  The RX21 has no ride 
         	 cymbal, so these patterns were played on its closed
         	 hihat.
         
         Ex.25 - single hits.
         
         Ex.26 - 4 quarter notes.
         
         Ex.27 - 8th note crescendo.  Same velocity values as snare
         	 crescendo.
         
         Ex.28 - 8th notes, constant velocity.
         
         Ex.29 - Shuffle ride.
         
         
         General impressions:  the 909 had the best ride cymbal.  It 
         was tuned the bottom of its range, and there it had a lot of 
         sustain and a broad spectrum.  The 505 had an excellent ping
         to its ride, but like its toms, the ride was noticeably 
         truncated compared to the 909 and 707, and higher pitched.
         Both the 909 and 707 decays were much faster than a real ride 
         cymbal, but not obviously so excpet by direct comparison.
         The 505's truncation was only obvious on isolated ride hits;
         with a little reverb, it is quite usable for ride rhythms.
         
         
     Examples 30 - 32 were on the crash cymbal.
         
         Ex.30 - Single hits.
         
         Ex.31 - Three hit crescendo.  Velocity values were 42, 84, and 
         	 127.
         
         Ex.32 - Single crash with bass drum.
         
         
         General impressions:  again, the 909's analog crash was the 
         best to my ears, and again, it was tuned to the lower limit 
         of its range.  The 707's crash seemed to have the longest 
         decay, but at high velocities the impact transient was 
         objectionable.  The 909 had a more realistically subtle
         impact transient.  In terms of timbre, the 505 and 707 were
	 virtually indistinguishable.  All the crashes were within the
	 realm of "real" crash cymbals (excepting of course their duration),
         but the RX21 had that nasal or brassy quality associated with
         cheap cymbals or small splashes.  Drummers sometimes refer to 
         this quality as "trashy", and it has its uses (it's not meant
         to be derogatory).
         
         
    Examples 33 - 46 were various combinations.
         
         Ex.33 - basic rock beat with hihat.
         
         Ex.34 - basic rock beat with ride cymbal.
         
         Ex.35 - Crash into basic rock beat with hihat.
         
         Ex.36 - Crash into basic rock beat with ride cymbal.
         
         Ex.37 - 4 to the bar with hihat.
         
         Ex.38 - Mitch Mitchell pattern with snare and crash together.
         
         Ex.39 - Ornamented backbeat with ride cymbal.
         
         Ex.40 - syncopated bass with quarter note hihat.
         
         Ex.41 - Shuffle pattern with ride cymbal.
         
         Ex.42 - Slow blues pattern (12/8) with ride cymbal.
         
         Ex.43 - 16th note fill "around the drums".
         
         Ex.44 - 16th note triplet fill "around the drums".
         
         Ex.45 - 16th note and 16th note triplet fill "around the 
         	 drums".
         
         Ex.46 - Crash and snare closer.
         
         
         General impressions:  in combination the drum voices on all 
         these machines sound better than in isolation.  The 909 is
         clearly "Simmons-like", when an SDS-8 is set up to sound as 
         much like "real" drums as possible.  Its cymbals are shockingly
         good, given its analog technology.  The 707, 505 and RX21 are
         all within the realm of a "real" drumkit's sound, but the RX21
         has a consistently nasal or "honky" tone that I don't care for.
         The 505's most obvious limitation in the combination examples
         is that the ride and crash cymbals compete; a ride following a
         crash truncates the crash dramatically and painfully obviously.
              
                            

    The tape is available to anybody interested.  Apart from the hiss
    that seems inherent in the cassette medium, it sounds quite clean.
    
    len.
    

    HEY LEN!!!!
    	HOW"D YOU SNEAK IN THERE AND BEAT ME...??!?!?!
    
    	dam, runner up, again.
    	          
    	how will my ego take this?
    
    	disgraced

I'd like a copy of the tape, Len.  And thanks for spending the time writing
up the "minutes" of what went on in reply .64...Mind if I use if for my
PhD dissertation? ;^)

Oh yea, I must add that the crash/ride cymbol mutex problem exists between 
tom1, tom2, tom3, and the timbale as well.  That is why the toms get
cut off during a fast triplet pattern...

I will find out exactly what voices are mutually exclusive from the manual
and post it here tomorrow...

Todd.

    	Well, guess I'm first to request again.
    
    		I'd like to hear the demo:
    
    
    			Dan Eaton
    			PKO3-1/F38       
    			29 Parker St.
    			Maynard, MA 01749
    
    				or
    
    
    			36 Park St. Apt 1
    			Clinton, MA 01510
                                         
    
    	Thanks
    
    	Dan

>    	Well, guess I'm first to request again.
    
    
    	Wrong, Todd snuck in there.

   Tape on the way to Todd, soon as I get his mailstop/address.
    
   len.
    

    
    Looks like this (finally) gets transfered to note 530, guys.
    
    I cant count much past 70 today anyway.

    Ron
    

How come the RX11 wasn't included, and is it the same as the RX21 in terms
of sound?  I'd be happy to lend mine for a future demonstration.

I thought the 505 was just a repackaging/combination of the 707/727.


				Mark

    Would have liked to include the RX11, but nobody had one handy.
    I knew you (Mark) had one, but since we've been talking about this
    for about a month and you didn't say anything, I figured you weren't
    interested.  I don't, as a rule, go saying, "Hey, can we borrow
    your ...".
    
    The 505 is not just a repackaging of the 707/727 sounds.  It sounds
    noticeably different from its predecessors.
    
    It would be nice to get some other machines into this.  The sequence
    is saved on one of my MC500 disks, and so can be reused any time,
    as long as the machines in question can be set up to listen to one
    of MIDI channels 1 through 4.  (Actually, now that I've got the
    channels separated, I can do a bulk edit on the MC500 to map any
    one of channels 1 through 4 to any other channel.)
    
    I auditioned an RX11 once, and my recollection is that it sounded
    quite good.  I think it has different sounds than the RX21.  I actually
    considered buying one, and didn't only because I could spend the
    $900 on other things I "needed" more.  Namely, I got a 727 instead,
    which gave me 15 more/different sounds.
    
    Anybody have access to a MIDIed Linn?  An Oberheim DMX?  A Sequential
    DrumTracks or Tom?  The new Casio?  The new Korg?  A DDR-30?  A
    MIDI (input) compatible Simmons?  What other machines am I overlooking?
    
    How about real low end machines like the ones made by Roland/BOSS
    and Korg?  Are these little guys able to take MIDI ins?
    
    len. 

    I'd also like to here the tape.  Send it to DEC mailstop ZKO2-2/N59.
    
    -jim

    This being one of many "official" drum machine notes, I thought
    I'd update the ancient TR909/TR707/TR505/RX21 drum machine faceoff
    with a startling thing I learned about the TR707 (and presumably
    TR727) last night.  I don't know if the TR505 and TR626 behave this
    way, but maybe somebody else could check.
    
    I read, some time ago, in Usenet, that the 707 treated all notes
    played at the same time with the same velocity.  This struck me as
    so much hoohaw (what velocity did it use, I asked?) so I decided
    to check it out.  I finally did last night, and, guess what, it
    does!
    
    The -707 determines the velocity level for *all* voices it is sounding
    based on the *last* velocity value it saw.  Since multiple
    "simultaneous" voices must actually be transmitted to the -707
    serially, the last note on in the sequence determines the velocity
    for all the "simultaneous" voices.  This stinks out loud.
    
    len.