Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    How does it deal with MIDI clock?  Will it either "give" to "take"
    MIDI clock?  If it will "give" then it can be used as the master
    timer for the sequencer(s).  If it will "take" then it can be
    synchronized through an external SMPTE box, acting as the master
    timer.
        John Sauter

    re.-1  Will it "take" midi sync?
    
    Its hard to tell from the spec sheet whether it will, but
    it does say "the R100... has complete MIDI implementation..."
    
    Also, under "Sync Interface:" it says: "MIDI, DIN, Tape, 
    Click[24/48/96]."  Under "Clock Outputs:" it says: "3 Clock,
    Cassette, DIN," but there isn't a "Clock Input" section.
    
    Do the Roland units take external sync and/or Midi sync?
                                                        
    
    Fredric     DVINCI::CERTO
    

    On a WAG, I can't imagine it NOT taking MIDI sync. Even if it got
    it wrong because of PPQ, it seems it should still respond.
                       
    Edd

    
    	I'm surprised that Len hasn't answered these questions yet.
    I mean, SURELY he has one already ?     :-), and all that.

    re.-1
    
    EUW will have them "soon."  Where does a bear live; anywhere he
    wants!  {:-) couldn't help it!}

    From the Roland TR-505 user manual:
    
    "The TR-505 can transmit and receive the following MIDI messages...
    song position pointer... synchro sync siganl such as tempo clock,
    start/stop etc."
    
    I know for a fact it'll respond to MIDI clock.  In fact, it's
    got a 
    
    Pace that would stop a clock,
    David
    

    No, I don't have a Kawai, and with my Rolands I have no need for
    one, ever.
    
    The Rolands accept/generate the following sync/clock sources:
    
    	FSK (Roland device specific) tape sync
    	MIDI (syncs off clock messages in MIDI data stream, ignores
    		the rest)
    	Roland DIN sync (Roland device specific) - a 24 ppqn clock with
    		start/stop controls

    Anything they take as input they can create as output.  I.e., they
    can serve as useful sync adaptors.  E.g., you can write a sync track
    to tape with a 707/727/909 (don't know about the 505), then sync
    the 707/... to tape and use its MIDI out to sync another sequencer
    to the tape track as well.  I think you can do the inverse too;
    i.e., sync the 707/... to another sequencer via MIDI and write a
    sync track from the 707/... in sync with the sequencer, if the
    sequencer doesn't have sync to tape capability.
    
    I'd assume from the description of the Kawai is that it *does* take
    a MIDI clock, again, from the MIDI input by reading only the clock
    messages.

    len (really, I don't own *everything* MIDI, just a lot of Roland)

    

    Hey Len -
    
    Believe me the Kawaii machine is really a few cuts above a 707.
    Kawaii bought all the Lynn sounds, so they say, and the machine
    really sounds much better than a 707 - and as I think the 707 is
    a great machine, for me that is really saying something.
    
    Dennis

    My only unhappiness (as an acoustic drummer with a really good
    sounding Ludwig/Zildjian kit) with the 707 is its cymbals.  I have
    heard LinnDrums and I don't find their snare, bass and toms worth the
    extra cost (a factor of 4!) over a 707.  The Kawai would have to
    be a really incredible unit with impeccable cymbals to justify my
    buying another drum machine or throwing over the 707 for one.
    People keep telling me about these incredible drum machines and
    I go listen to them and they don't sound like real drums at all!
    So far there are only three that I've heard that pass that test
    (in all cases, ignoring cymbals and handclaps) - the Roland 707 (and
    the DDR-30), the LinnDrum, and the Yamaha RX-11 (the latter just
    barely).
    
    len the drum snob.
    

    Not to beat this to death, but don't you feel that the 505 qualifies?
    
    Todd.
    

    Oops - yes of course, given its 707 heritage.  How could I have
    so egregiously erred?  (Oh, shut up...)
    
    len the chagrined.
    

    Have you listened to the RX15?  I've been told that it is similar
    to the RX11, but I've never done a side-by-side comparison.  I got
    it instead of the 505 because my daughter didn't like the 505's
    limitations on simultaneous toms.
        John Sauter

    limitations on simultaneous toms?
    

    It seems that you can't sound two of the toms on the same beat.
    My daughter felt that was too restrictive.  The RX15 does have
    limitations on simultaneous instruments, but the toms are all
    independent.
        John Sauter

    You're right about all of this, Len. Especially the 707 cymbal sounds.
    I still feel the Kawai is markedly better but in so far as dumping
    a 707 for one... in my case absolutely, in your's maybe not. Anyway
    I have a feeling the Korg DDD-1 is going to be the leader of the
    pack for awhile, excepting the SP-12 machine. 
    
    Dennis

    Well, I go give one a listen, but my expectations are suitably
    tempered.  Right now my probable future is a Roland DDR-30, for
    both studio and live use.  But if I can do better for less, I'm
    interested.  And nothing can touch live cymbals.  Yet.
    
    len.
    

    
    Dennis,
    
    You've seen and listened to one?  How much did
    they want?  Sounds like you really liked it.
    
    Has the Korg DDD-1 been discussed in notes? 
    Is it available yet?  Price?
    
    Fredric          DVINCI::CERTO
    
                           

    There was no real price available when I saw the Kawai. It's probably
    going to be about $800 - $1000. There was a note on the DDD-1 but
    little more so far than speculation, anticipation. Sounds good so
    far, though.
    
    Len - I also think the DDR-30 set is just wonderful. A friend of
    mine has them and they are just great. They record beautifully with
    no EQ or signal shaping of any kind. In my estimation they are well
    worth the money. You can use an Octapad with them also, if you just
    want to buy the brain and wait to buy the pads later. A 707 and
    a DDR-30 tracking together via the DDR-30 MIDI send is really fat
    and the two souds complement each other very well. The high end
    is super on the DDR-30 Toms, an area which I feel needs much
    improvement on the 707, and the 505 for that matter. Have to admit
    I like the sharper snare and snappy kick on the 707 as well as anything
    I have heard yet.              
    
    Dennis

    The Kawai is in!  Wurlitzer's (Boston) has one for demonstration,
    more coming in "soon."  Last time they said that was July though
    (see base note) :-).  Price: $750
    
    The Cymbals sound great, better, in my opinion, than the 707 and
    505.  The toms are better on the 707 though.  There are 24 sounds
    in 3 banks of eight, the first bank is the most useful.  It has
    a nice kick and an ok snare.  I'd like to hear a drummer's analysis,
    cause I'm not sure how useful the extra sounds, like kicks 2 and 3, are.
    
    The buttons are velocity sensitive, boy does that make a difference!
    The sensitivity for each sound is variable via up/down buttons and
    the lcd display.  These also allow you to vary volume, pan the sound,
    and tune it as well (turn 3 toms into 10); nice user interface!
                          
    The unit is physically bigger than the Roland 707, which surprised
    me, as I expected a midi-verb sized unit.  Lots of quarter inch
    outputs on the back, midi and sync of course, and a headphone jack.
    The master volume and (metronome) tempo are continuously variable
    pots.  A cartridge adds more memory for storing programs.
      
    Sounds are permanently wired; its all on one big chip, the salesman
    said, showing me a 6 inch by 1 inch shape with his fingers.        
    "Sounds, system software, and map of their storage, one right after
    another, all crammed into memory.
    
    We have yet to reach perfection, but its probably the best price
    /performance value so far.  I hope to have more time next time to
    learn how to program it.
                            
    Check it out, and then talk me out of it, cause I'm on the verge
    of spending money again!!!  :-)
    
    Fredric        DVINCI::CERTO

I listened to both the Kawai R100 and the Korg DDD1 at Wurlitzer in Boston 
last night.  The Korg blows the Kawai out of the water!  Not only are the 
sounds much more realistic (although there are fewer of them), but the Korg is 
more programmable and more expandable (right now, it accepts Oberheim 
cartridges, and special Korg cartridges will be available starting in 
January).  You can program decay time, touch sentitivity, pitch, among other 
things.  These can be adjusted with data sliders during play time, as on the 
Yamaha RX11, which is much easier to deal with than Kawai's rather confusing 
programmer interface.  The buttons on the Korg also feel better as they 
actually move (the Kawai uses the standard thin buttons that are flush against 
the board).

Only problem is I heard the Korg through a Korg speaker and the Kawai through 
an ETA (?) speaker.  Don't know how this affected things, but the ETA looked 
like a 12" woofer while the Korg had four 6" cones in a square.  Anyway, the 
Kawai sounded very tinny AT ANY PITCH and had very little depth.  I tried to 
make sure there was no signal processing in the chain on EITHER machine, but 
that's hard to do in a store.  At any rate, I looked at both manuals and the 
Korg seemed vastly superior.  Of course, it's $250 more since the Kawai is 
$750 (or is that $850?).  I'm not sure it's worth $1K by itself, but it 
definitely has the potential to be a system piece that bears expansion but 
never needs to be replaced.

The Korg's human interface is more complex than Yamaha's (and possibly even 
Roland's), but that's the price one pays for added flexibility and 
functionality.

No Kawai's available yet, but the Korg is available.  Wonder if the "for sale" 
version of the Kawai will sound any different?

Yamaha is supposed to release an entirely revamped line of all equipment at 
the January trade show, and Roland is supposed to make a fairly major 
reorganisation of their line as well, so I imagine the Big Two may have 
something up their sleeves yet to compete with these beasts, in both price and 
performance.

The Kawai has some latin percussion and such, but I've decided that stuff's 
cheap enough to not warrant using a synth to get the sounds.

				Mark