Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Edd,
    
    Ibanez just introduced a digital reverb which does exactly what
    you want.  Off the top of my head, I don't recall the model number.
    Anyone else know it?  I believe the cost is in the $1000 range.
    
    		Derek

    $1K! OUCH....!!!
    
    Seriously, it sounds like I'd have more functionality AND save $$$
    buying 2 units on the line of say, Alessis.
    
    Concur? No?
    
    What I'm trying to do is put together a low budget studio. Right
    now, vocals are the big hang. Dry. Way dry. I'm recording
    directly to cassette via 4-->2 and with no way to sync to tape.
    I'd like to add reverb to the vocal track, but if I understand
    correctly, that's probably not the same reverb I'd want to add
    to, say, a snare drum. 
    
    A multitrak is in the cards, but low down in the deck. I'd like
    to buy pieces that I can integrate and use now.
    
    Edd

    Except for Alesis (and perhaps the SPX-90), digital reverbs are
    above $1K.  You're probably better off with 2 midiverbs.  That way,
    you can buy one now, and pick another one up later when you have
    more cash.  Does anyone know if the midiverbs have dropped in price
    in the last 3 months?  I paid $325 mail order with lots of talking.
    
    Todd.
    

    
    re .3
    Midiverb $299 mail order from Profound Sound. Good investment! 
    I took it apart - looks well made.  I took my Roland TR-505
    apart - it's a piece of junk.
    
    David
    

    As an aside, where is Alesis based?  USA?
    
    Todd. (who_doesn't_even_know_what_country_its_subsidizing)
    

    
    The board says made in USA.  By the way, have you seen the latest
    adverts for the "MIDIFECT" (sp?).  Looks like they took a MIDIVERB,
    put in a new ROM, and slapped on a new label.
    
    David
    

    Havn't seen anything on the MIDIFECT.  What effects does it perform?
    
    Todd.
    

    
    The MIDIFEX has 63 effects, various parameterizations of echo,2tap,
    3tap,regen,slap,reverb, reverse,multitap, thickener, and stereogen.
    I suspect it is MIDIVERB with a different ROM.
    
    David
    

    Yeh, I saw the ad in KEYBOARD too... what in the FEP is '2tap',
    '3tap', 'multitap', and 'stereogen' ?????????????????????????????
    

	Can anyone comment on the sound quality of the MIDIverb?
	I am looking around for a good reverb, and some salesmen
	have been knocking its output levels, saying it can't
	drive their tape decks and is really noisy.

	Is there some truth in this, or are they just twits?
	
	Also, can anyone comment on the sound quality of 
	"pure reverb boxes" like the Yamaha Rev-7 or the
	Roland SRV-2000, vis-a-vis these multi-effects boxes
	such as the Yamaha SPX-90 or this MIDIFEX? 
	
	Thanks!
					Scot

    I'll take a shot at 2-tap, 3-tap and stereogen.
    
    2-tap and 3-tap are delay line effects - the n-tap refers to n "taps"
    on the delay line, typically at different delay values.  You get
    2 or three distinct delay times stacked up on top of one another,
    which makes for more interesting feedback effects (closer to a real
    chorus effect, for example).
    
    Stereogen is some kind of synthesized stereo effect.  You can
    control the apparent position of a "point source" in a stereo field
    by adjusting relative levels between the two channels, or by
    introducing a delay in one channel relatively to the other.  My
    guess is the MIDIFEX does something along these lines to a mono
    signal, creating a pseudo stereo image.
    
    Regarding sound quality.  I had an Alesis XT for about a year, before
    I traded up to the Roland SRV-2000.  The SRV-2000 is unquestionably
    a better sounding reverb, but it cost twice what the XT did.  The
    MIDIVERB costs half what an XT did, i.e., about a quarter of an
    SRV-2000.  You'd have to be crazy not to expect some difference
    in quality as well as functionality.  The differences are, however,
    NOT AUDIBLE to the casual listener.  The XT was a little noisier
    than the SRV, and the reverb "tail" had more "graininess" to it
    on the XT than the SRV.  But you could only hear this if you were
    looking for it and listening through headphones.
    
    My guess is that the multieffects boxes differ from dedicated boxes
    in about the same way, if at all.  After all, these multieffects
    boxes are really basically the same hardware running different
    algorithms.  The basic issues are A/D/A wordlength, clock rate and
    internal precision for computational purposes.  Algorithm quality
    will have some effect too.
    
    Note that Roland has announced a multieffects box too.
    
    See my detailed review of the SRV-2000 elsewhere in this conference.
    
    len.
    

    The MIDIVERB is a wee bit noisy, but not the least bit grainy, like
    the XT somtimes is.  Unless you're prepared to pay over $1000 for
    a reverb unit (I was definitely NOT), then get a MIDIVERB.  I'm
    sure that someone in this conference would be willing to set up
    a demo of their reverb units if you're interested.  I'd be willing
    to sport my MIDIVERB if you're interested in hearing it in action.
    
    Hey Len, want to get together sometime and do some X,Y comparisons
    with the MIDIVERB and the SRV to determine how noisy the MIDIVERB
    is in relative terms?
    
    Todd.
    

    Sounds like a good excuse to get together again.  This isn't how
    Underwriters' Lab got started, is it?

    len.
    

    Hey, since this is my note, do I get to be an impartial judge?
    
    Edd

    First you have to show us the standards calibration report for your
    ears.
    
    Oh, no, this isn't going to be the same crew again, is it?  Where's
    Dave...  If you don't watch out, I'll make you look at my Mandelbrot
    pictures while Rosette drones on in the background and Racter rambles
    on incoherently.  Or an 18 second, 18 KHz, 8 bit sample of my cats
    purring?  You gals (don't want to be sexist) don't *really*
    like Grolsch, do you?  If we start scheduling this now, we might
    be able to get together before the first snowfall.

    len the whimsical.
    

    Oh good.  Looks like another technology exchange session.  Who's gonna bring
    the Mitsubishi?
    
    Seriously though, the more I think about it, the more I would like
    to do a side-by-side comparison of the MIDIVERB and a first quality
    reverb unit like the SRV.  I think that it would yield very valuable
    info to post in this file.  There's no question that it is difficult 
    to compare digital reverbs in a music store environment.  I volunteer
    to take the "minutes" of the "meeting" and post them under the 
    MIDIVERB topic.
    
    When's it gonna be and where guys? (My place is under renovation.
    				        Any other volunteers?)
    
    Todd the comparist.
    

    I offer my place, if you guys would like to trek up to New Hampshire.
    I've got an SRV-2000, a mixer, an old amplifier and speakers, and a DX7
    to provide input to the reverbs.  The room this lives in doesn't have
    much space for people, though, so if a bunch of people want to listen it
    would be more comfortable to use a larger place. 
        John Sauter

    Although my "studio" is decidedly less than SOTA, you're welcome
    to demo in Millbury. It's closer, and I do have the room and various
    input synths....
    
    Edd

    My grumbling was, of course, an offer to use my place again.  I
    have (gulp, blush) *2* SRV-2000s and the rest of the stuff to go
    along with it (i.e., all kinds of sources - guitars, samples, digital
    synths, analog synths, drums, drum machines, etc.)  Also, it's
    conveniently near to Miss Mitsubishi.  And the 8 track is available
    to document it all.  It would be interesting to set up the SRV to
    mimic the MIDIVERB's parameters and see what they sound like in
    direct comparison for a variety of inputs (bassy, percussive/transient,
    continuous, shrill, guitar, voice, etc.).
    
    Are we all trying to get out of driving any distance?
    
    len.
    

    No, Len, we were just waiting for you to make the offer....
    
    Edd

    Ok Len.  If you insist.  Actually, it wouldn't have been very appropriate
    if we just invited ourselves over.  What if you weren't there?  Don't
    know what time to feed the Cats.  Wouldn't know what to feed the
    studio either.  How many bytes of MIDICHOW do you go through in
    a week?  God, its probably enough to feed a small family of Kurzweils
    for months...
    
    
    How about next week?  We can set it up via EMAIL when we know who
    is going.  Who's attending besides Edd and Myself?  Oh yea, Monday's
    out for me.
    
    Todd.
    

    
	Put me down as very interested in hearing the MIDIVERB
	next to the SRV-2000, and for that matter any other
	reverb people happen to have!

	Alas, I am out-of-town on vacation next week, but am 
	available thurs/fri of this week, and any time after 
	I return on the 4th of August.

						Scot    

    I am also interested, no matter where it's held (within driving
    distance, of course).  Determining a time that everybody can make
    it will take too long, and possibly not converge at all.  I suggest
    that Len establish a time that is convenient for him, and those
    of us who can make it, will.
        John Sauter

    Well, any weeknight's fine by me, except Friday, which is usually
    reserved for other foolishness.  I live in Westborough, about 5
    miles west of the intersection of Rts. 9 and 495, for those who
    need to gauge distances.
    
    I have a proposal so we can get this experiment out to the largest
    possible community without trying to squeeze everybody into my studio.
    I.e., we make a TAPE with all our A/B comparisons on it.  Some
    sequentially (e.g., the stereo experiments), some "side by side"
    (two mono reverbs recorded in parallel in stereo) so you could
    A/B just by switching channels.  The only problem with this is
    the inherent audio quality limitations of the cassette medium
    (specifically hiss, which might mask the noise difference of the
    two reverbs), and the availability of quality tape in short loads
    (don't really want to dedicate a C60 to 10 minutes of comparisons).

    Other formats?  E.g., Tascam 234/244/246 format 4 track?  Tascam
    38 8 track (duping might be a problem; where could we find two 38s
    side by side, and how many interested parties out there have access
    to one just to listen to the tape?)?
    
    Other ideas/suggestions?  I can probably handle a total of 6 people
    without us really getting in each others' way.
    
    len.
    

    First week of August.  Fine by me.
    
    Todd.
    

    How about Wednesday, 6 August for the battle of the reverbs?
    
    Any other contenders besides the MIDIVERB (who's bringing one?)
    and the SRV-2000 (studio resident)?
    
    Rendezvous at Tom Foolery's beforehand for Munchies with Miss
    Mitsubishi?
    
    What say ye all?
    
    len.
    

    
    If you can squeeze me in, fine. Otherwise let the others before
    me go. I'd really like to hear the SRV-2000's in real stereo.
    
    Chris
    
    

    Wednesday the 6th it is.  How about 6:15-6:30 at Foolery's.  I'll
    supply the MIDIVERB.
    

    Todd, I trust you mean assemble at TF's between 6:15 and 6:30, not EAT
    between 6:15 and 6:30!
    
    And Chris, it's first come first served, and you're early enough
    for me, so come on down.

    len (whose definition of "6" is flexible)
    

    Much as I'd like to attend this little soiree, as you might guess
    I'd have trouble making it during a weekday (timezones being what
    they are). I hope that someone will post a brief note of the results
    in this conference?
    
    			Paul.

    me!
    
    Edd

    My cursory review of this discussion discloses the following interested
    parties:
    
    	Edd JAWS:: Cote
    	Todd BARNUM:: Rhodes
    	John DSSDEV:: Sauter
    	Scot HYDRA:: Aurenz
    	Chris APOLLO:: Dehahn
    
    I will send you all directions to TF's and Len's Studio.
    
    I (or some other sucker) will write up the results of our experiments
    and this distinguished panel's considered opinions on the subject.
    Are there any other reverbs to be compared beyond the MIDIVERB
    and SRV-2000?
    
    len.
    

    I have Golf League on Wednesday but I'm willing to show up around
    9:00 at Len's with my ART 01a digital reverb if anyone is interested.
    
    DD

    Do it Dave.
    
    Todd.
    

    Yes, if you can.  We could start a little later (or linger a little
    longer at TF's) if that would help.  Would anybody have a problem
    of we switched to Tuesday or Thursday?  Anyone of those three days
    (Tuesday - Thursday) is OK by me with a weeks advance warning.
    
    len.
    

    ... my schedule is pretty slippery, I can arrange for any day that's
    all-around convenient.
    
    Edd

    Any of those days are fine, as long as we can firm one up relatively
    soon.
    
    Todd.
    

    I see that no SBX-90 owners have expressed interest.  If you own
    one, but can't make it, could you mention it here and see if
    someone who's attending will offer to borrow it and include it
    in the comparison?  I'd really like to know, because there may
    be one in my future.  If I figure out what's going on with this
    comparison, I may show up also.  Meet you at Tom's probably.
    
    GW

    
    Hi, I would really like to attend, since I am contemplating a 
    reverb purchase in the near future.  Going to a play on wednesday
    though, so if you have it Tuesday or Thursday and can handle one
    more, I'd be a happy dude.
    
    Sure would be nice to have an SPX-90 on board to compare...
                            
    Gee, didn't know Westborough was the music capital that it is;
    I work in MR03.  Where is Tom Foolery's?  Pardon my naivet�, but
    who is Miss Mitsubishi?
                                          
    
    Fredric    DVINCI::CERTO

    
    Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday looks ok by me so far.
    
    I'd really like to check out an SPX-90.
    
    CdH_with_no_effects_to_offer
    
    

    Well, let's pick one.  Dave said go ahead on Wednesday if it's too
    much of a hassle to change, but I'm still game for Tuesday or Thursday
    if that's okay with everyone else.  But we do need to make up our
    minds fairly quicklike.
    
    len.
    

    Band pratice has been moved up to tonight so Tuesday would be ok...
    
    DD

    I second the motion.
    
    Edd

    Tuesday the 5th; fine by me.
    
    Ambiently yours,
    
    Todd.

    No NO - I just talked to Dave, and he thought we meant THIS week!
    He's got a conflict next Tuesday, so....
    
    You got it, we're back to WEDNESDAY THE 6th!
    
    It's WEDNESDAY THE 6th!
    
    Once more with feeling - Wednesday, 6 August.
    
    The earlier note to the contrary will be suitably modified.
    
    len.
    

             <<< NOVA::$222$DUA16:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;1 >>>
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Note 437.43                   DDL/Reverb question                       43 of 46
ERLANG::FEHSKENS                                     13 lines  28-JUL-1986 10:55
            -< Let's Go 'verbin' Now, Everybody's Learnin' How... >-
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    Ok, in the absence of any other daring moves, I propose...
    
    Wednesday, 6 August, rendezvous at the Tom Foolery's in Westborough,
    intersection of Routes 9 and 30, for munchies with Miss Mitsubishi,
    around 6:15 to 6:30.  Reassemble at Len's Studio, 7:30ish, for
    the Great Reverb Debate.  Details to follow if this proves acceptable
    to all (or a significant fraction thereof).
    
    Or, you could all just UPS me your reverbs and I'll play with them
    for a while and tell you what I learn...

    len.
    

    
    re: -1,-2  
    
    August 6'th (Wednesday) is out for me (see .39).  Any other day
    
    is fine; how about August 7'th (Thursday)?
    
    

    Argh - somebody else work it out and tell me you're all going to
    show up.  But Friday is OUT.
    
    len.
    

    I say let's do it Wednesday. Those who can't be there will get the
    review.
    
    I can't imagine there is any day convenient to all.
    
    Edd

    I will echo Edd.  Can't keep changing it.  I still say Wednesday.
    (Sorry Fredrick, but we will post the results in this conference)
    Seems like we will have an awful lot of work to do in a short amount
    of time if we compare more than 2 reverb units.  I say stick with
    only the MIDIVERB and the SRV.
    
    Todd.
    

    
    re .51 etc.
    
    You all have a good time; I look forward to reading the review!
    
    
    Fredric	DVINCI::CERTO
    
    

    Well, you may all have noticed how humid it was this weekend.  When
    it's humid, air conditioners squeeze a lot of water out of the air.
    That water has to go somewhere.  Normally, it drains out of the
    base of the upstairs apartment's airconditioning unit and is whisked
    magically away by a pipe.  Sometimes this pipe clogs up.  When it
    does, the water goes someplace else.  Like into my studio.  This
    is being fixed, but my studio will have wet wall to wall carpeting
    (i.e,. can't just hang them out to dry) for a bit.
    
    So, sorry folks, but I've got to postpone the reverb-o-rama for
    a week.
    
    Now taking bids on a day next week when we can all get together.
    
    len.