Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    How timely ! I played the ONLY Prophet 2000 in Arizona yesterday.
    
    The samples on floppy were very primitive - not nearly as polished
    as those for the Emulator, but the Emu's been around a long time.
    
    The sounds, poor volume balancing aside, were excellent. Perhaps
    too much top end, but at least it's there to EQ off if u want.
    
    I'm considering the 2002, the rackmount. I have here the glossy
    promo sheet for it. I saw the '5-octave response limit' thing in
    the KEYBOARD 2000 review, but the glossy here says 
    
    	keyboard range: 88 keys
    
    the 2000's keyboard is crap, and has NO aftertouch, so the way to
    go is the 2002 with a KX88 or functional equivalent.
    
    It looks like a REAL VIABLE product which due to short supply and
    backorders, will NOT be discounted appreciably in the foreseeable
    future. One nice thing is the adjustable sampling rate, and another
    is the variable MIDI serial transmit rate... MAC owners take note.
    
    I'm really considering one along with
    
    KX88 keyboard MIDI controller
    MKS-20 Roland Digital Piano (yes, back to THAT)
    Fat Mac w/good sequencer software
    
    K Moeller
    

    ... missed another pertinent quote off the promo glossy :
    
    "Up to 16 samples can be assigned anywhere in an 88-key range".
    
    Also ,there's 12 onboard patches which can be edited/combined with/
    crassfaded/velocity faded to along with whatever samples are in
    memory. 
    
    There is a memory expansion module for ~$300 which Doubles the sampling
    storage. Floppies are the 3 1/2" flops like the MAC, and can be
    initialized in the machine, meaning there's no 'single sourcing'
    high prices nonsense. The floppy library is still kind of a loss,
    there's only 22 factry flops @$20 each. However I hope to get a
    complete library including ALL the Emulator patches... that is,
    assuming the 
    
    -	new Korg DSS-1 12 bit
    -	new Yamaha
    -	new Roland
    
    which will be announced at NAMM aren't still MORE price performance
    competitive. Of course, we might have to wait a year before they're
    actually on the shelf...
    
    KM the Configurator

    I think that you should check out PROFOUND Sound in Wichita (address
    listed earlier).  Number is 1-800-63-SOUND.
    
    Quoted me $1695 on a 2002.  They have a HUGE library of samples (80
    disks currently), and if you buy the h/w from them, the disks can be
    had at the measley cost of a blank diskette ($2?).
    
    BTW - thanks for the info on the keyboard limitations - I was
    considering using the 2000 as a controller keyboard, since I'm trying
    to limit my budgetary outlay for equipment.  Obviously, this is not a
    viable solution.  Egad, can I justify a KX-88?  Now we're talking
    about ... let's see ... $3K????
    
    Crunch those numbers ...
    
8^)

    The guys at Wurlitzer told me the 2002 has a full 88 note range;
    this is a subset of the full MIDI note range (128 notes).
    
    There are a jillion samples available for the 2000/2002; the ones
    I have heard sound terrific, and more are coming all the time.
    
    There's a VERY brief comment on the Roland S10 and S50 samplers
    in (of all places!) the latest BYTE.  The main thing I recall is
    a big price difference between the two (the S10 was about $1300,
    the S50 about $2500), and the S50 had enough memory for 88 substantial
    samples at a time (i.e., one per key)!  I'll dig out the note and
    post it.
    
    len.
    

    Well, my failing memory wasn't TOO far off; the following is extracted
    from the "What's New" in the latest BYTE:
    
    Both S10 and S50 - 12 bits, 32kHz sampling rate.  17kHz bandwidth
    claimed (so much for the Nyquist theorem; I'll bet it's more like
    15 kHz).  Sampling rate is probably selectable (the blurb didn't
    say) to trade off bandwidth against sample duration.  No information
    on durations (it had better be reasonable - the 2002 with the memory
    expansion will handle up to 8 seconds).
    
    S10 - 4 samples, 49 key keyboard, $1250 list (Roland stuff is not
    heavily discounted until it's about to be replaced; Roland runs
    a tight ship with their dealers).
    
    S50 - 61 (!!!) samples, 61 key keyboard, $2695 list.  RGB/composite
    video outputs for spiffier user interface!
    
    What I want is an S50 without the keyboard.

    The NAMM show be over, and I called my favorite tech, Riley, at
    E-Mu Systems yesterday. Here's what he say (paraphrased)
    
    E-Mu has a new sampler, the E-MAX. It comes with a keyboard ($2600)
    or as a ***********RACKMOUNT************ at $2200 list.
    
    Memory: still .5meg memory. Variable sampling rate. 14bit/8bit Delta.
    Uses 3 1/2" floppy drive. U can buy your own (not proprietary).
    One flop has the O.S., load to boot. The sound sample flops need
    not have the O.S. to work.
    
    Tape Sync: no SMPTE, but has a MIDI clock sync built in.
    
    Sequencer: Still fights samples for memory. 8 trax. No autocorrect.
    Internal metronome/click avail.
    
    MIDI implementation: will xmit/receive on 16 MIDI chans/presets.
    In 'double' or stack mode, still has 8 voices per, for 16 voices(!)
    max. The E-Mu II would 'rob' you when stacking voices, had 8 max.

    Misc: allows 15 velocity curves, has zero-slope loop help, allows
    something called 'crossfade looping'.
    
    Has a RS422 port for you MAC types. The Digidesign software works
    with this unit. The famed Emulator sound library is being ported
    over to 3 1/2" flops (at their extortive prices, I'm SURE [$22 each])
        
    Outputs: like the E-Mu II, has 8 voice outputs. Programmable levels.
    Variable LFO per voice (real nice for string/choral sounds). Also
    has STEREO outputs with **programmable panning**.
    
    Availability: first ships in September.
    
    Conclusion: Price competitive with the Prophet 2002, has additional
    functionality with the internal sequencer and sync-to-tape. Deserves
    a look !
    
    kool moiler
    

    I think I'll wait for the Fairlight CMI series III on a chip for
    $19.95 from K-tel.  Geez, is this stuff moving fast!!!!
    
    		Derek

    Well, I got an 'advance information' sheet on the new Emax from
    E-Mu Systems. And I called the hapless tech guy again. I am faced
    with a dilemma.. been planning to purchase a used Fat Mac with Opcode
    sequencer software and MIDI serial interface. (NO sync-to-tape).
    However, the unexpected (future) availability of the Emax with 8track 
    sequencer built in gave me pause. So this call centered around
    sequencer functions. Here is my list of questions for them:

    a	) does the sequencer use the same memory as the samples ? i.e.
    	  the same bank ? .. a local store salesman who attended NAMM
    	  SWORE that the Emax' internal sequencer had its own, separate
    	  memory.
    b	) Max note capacity of sequencer ?
    c	) imbed patch changes/controller info in sequences?
    d	) quick editing function overview ?
    e	) delivery schedule still on track ?
    
                           RESPONSES :
    a	) does the sequencer use the same memory as the samples ? i.e.
    	  the same bank ? 
    ........ YES
    b	) max note capacity ?
    ........ 85,000 notes with NO samples in memory. (Whatever good that
    would do.)
    c	) imbed patch changes/controller info in sequences ?
    ........YES&NO. Here he digressed to explain that the sequencer had two
    modes, realtime, record everything INCLUDING patches/controller
    info. However, you can't go back and EDIT them in. Another mode,
    'steptime', allows data entry like a drum unit.
        When pressed, he admitted that the Emax' internal sequencer
    was designed to accept data dumps from other, more fully-figured
    sequencers via MIDI. Then using the MIDI clock tape sync, begin
    audio recording. 
    d	) editing functions
    ...... see above
    e	) delivery
    ....... September
    
    karl moeller
                

    West L.A. Music, one of the U.S.'s largest dealers, hasn't received
    any Prophet 2000's or 2002's in SIXTY DAYS. They've stopped taking
    orders until Sequential resumes delivery or goes under. Apparently
    the Prophet samplers that they sold prior to May have a very bad
    hardware failure rate, and quite a few have come in for repair.
    Industry scuttlebutt has it that Sequential overcommitted on ships
    and is in a major payables bind, can't get material in to complete
    the current run..essentially, quite shaky.
    
    AKAI has a new sampler, the S900, with 12bit linear sampling and
    ONE MEGABYTE of memory out of the box. West L.A. says AKAI has eight
    employees busily transferring all the available samples (read:
    Emulator) into S900 format. $2995 list, WITH a HUGE sound library.
    Or, they (West L.A.) will discount if the library is not desired.
    
    Think I'll wait for the Emax... has a sequencer, and apparently
    will list for ~$2300. A little more palatable.
    
    More soon from Sampling Central.
    
    karl moeller

    
    
    
    Does anybody have, or know where I can get my hands on a decent
    sized disk library for the Prophet 2000 to make copies?  Last
    I heard Sequential Circuits went bankrupt, so that seems to leave
    out finding anything through a local music store.
    
    Ralph
    
    

    Ralph, I believe your only hope is to find someone with an E-II,
    Emax, S900 or Mirage library that also owns a Mac with Digidesign
    software.. perhaps TWO Macs, one running DD for the other sampler
    and one mac running DD for the 2000.
    
    Best of luck !
    
    karl, happier than ever with E-Mu Systems

    Did SCI (Prophet manufacturer) really go under?  The 2000 seems
    rather recent to me.  Maybe a last gasp?
    
    	Eirikur
    

	I don't believe there's been any official word on SCI.  They've been
treading water for a while, though.

	Dan

RE: SCI

    Indeed, it is true.  SCI has filed chapter 11 (or was it 13?).
    Supposedly, a Japanese firm is considering a buy out, but I'm not
    certain of that. 

    Gee, and I can remember when the Prophet 5/10 was a real hip machine,
    much like the DX7 is today. 

brad_the_reminiscent

    
    
    The rumor I heard was that SCI had filed and that Yamaha was going
    to buy them out.  Guess we'll have to wait to see if anything
    happens.....in the meantime, I'm left with a small collection of
    samples. :^(
    
    

RE: .15

    Don't bum out yet.  (I heard the Yama-rumor too, BTW.)  I don't know
    where you got your sampler, but I think that ProFound has (or has
    access to) a pretty extensive sample library for the 2000 - something
    like 85 disks, if I remember correctly. 

    Give 'em a call, they may be able to help you out.

brad_who_sounds_like_a_ProFound_salesman

    The Oberheim ??? (three letters, I think the last one is ``X'')
    digital sample player reads Prophet-2000 disks (as well as Mirage
    and Emulator disks).
    
    I don't know if you can write disks from one format to another, but
    stores which sell this unit, MIGHT have 2000 samples.
    
    Steph
    

    Steph, you mean the Oberheim DPX-1, with 2 flop drives for E-II
    (5 1/4") and Mirage/Akai S900/Prophet 2000 samples (3.xx")
    
    .. this MAY be a possible strategy to obtain 2000 samples, except
    that the DPX can't write into any other format than its own... so
    unless the store carrying the DPX-1 already HAS 2000 samples, the
    DPX-1 won't help you create them.
    
    karl

    I have a possible "great deal" on a rather used Prophet 2000...
    
    ...Six hundred bucks...
    
    A few questions to Enetland:
    
    	1) does the 2000 have an aftertouch keyboard?
    
    	2) Do they still have the "I break a lot" reputation?
    
    	3) What are the limits of the sampling part for transpose upward/
    	   transpose downward?
    
    	4) Does it multisample?
    
    	5) Anything else?
    
    -Bill (who_doesn't_consider_a_2000_cheating_because_it_CAN_synthesize)
    	:-)

    
    I checked out the "great deal" on the Prophet 2000....
    
    Bad news.  It has a broken floppy drive.  Completely dead.  Can't even
    format a known-good floppy.  It was kind of sleazy for the store to try
    and sell it with no disks (the 2000 has all it's software in ROM along
    with some basic wavetables, so it still _can_ make sounds without the
    floppy.  Unless somebody brought in a floppy with them to test the
    drive, they would happily walk out with a broken machine.) 
                                                              
    The store in question is the Daddy's Junky Music in Norwood MA, by
    the way.
                          
    	-Bill

    
    I thought you could pick up drives like that for around $200. Maybe
    I'm wrong. Might be worth checking out. If you could pick one up
    fairly inexpensively, and get them to come down about $100, you'd
    still have a decent deal IMO.
    
    Mike D