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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

321.0. "?REAL Men don't...? - Legitimacy of Sequencing" by MAX::MCPHERSON (Marlboro Telecommunications) Tue Apr 22 1986 22:50

You asked for it, Karl (Moeller).

I avoided the temptation to bang out a reply to your earlier comment 
about sequencers.   (It didn't really seem germane to the main topic.)

I take exception (to a degree) to your rather open-ended and provoking 
statement : 

  "Sequencers are the refuge of those with crappy technique."


I'm reminded of similar statements related to programming...

"REAL PROGRAMMERS don't have to code in wimpy languages like Pascal or 
C.  They program in straight hex and don't document... documentation is 
for wienies"

...or something like that.



If your intent was humor, then I get it.

If not, then I wonder how some of the others in this conference view 
sequencers: crutch or tool?  A crutch is always a tool, but need a tool 
always be a crutch?  I think not.

Are there any other musicians like me, whose ideas often outstrip their 
keyboard ability/agility/facility/whatever?

I'm a little offended, but mostly curious...
    
    /doug
    
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321.1I'll bet this is a can of worms...MENTOR::COTESue me if I play too long...Wed Apr 23 1986 09:0018
    My goal is to make MUSIC, not to play the piano/flugelhorn/drums/whatever.
    To that end, the sequencer is not a tool, but a veritable door from
    which the tunes in my head can come out through.
    
    Yes, it does take up the slack where my technique (or lack of) leaves
    off. I'd just as soon hire a studio full of musicians to play my
    music, but $$ being what it is....
    
    Writing/composing and performing are 2 closely related but SEPARATE
    entities, let's not confuse them. I'd love to be a virtuoso on every
    instrument, but the fact that I'm not shouldn't prevent me from
    being creative.
    
    Real men take advantage of what's available...
    
    No offense taken...
    
    Edd
321.2OK, We'll argue about it HERE.ERLANG::FEHSKENSWed Apr 23 1986 13:2124
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    Obviously, nobody should compose music for instruments they can't
    play...
    
    I have always looked at sequencers as a saviour for those of us with
    no "technique" beyond the ability to imagine what we want to hear.

    Music is more than a chops contest - what you've said is analogous
    to "scores and performers are the refuge of composers with crappy
    technique."
    
    I guess since I'm a competent drummer I can trash my drum machines...
    
    etc.
    
    len.
    
321.3How I will use my new MSQ-100ADVAX::SPEEDDerek SpeedFri Apr 25 1986 14:2042
    My $0.02:
    
    I consider myself a keyboard player of medium talent: I have the
    chops for your basic cover rock 'n' roll band (no insult intended
    to keyboard players with hot chops in cover bands) but not for any type
    of sincere classical or jazz playing.
    
    To me, sequencers offer the following nice features:
    
    	1.) If I'm using MIDI, I can change my mind about what synth
    patches I use on a song after I have recorded the "note information"
    piece of the music.  For example, I recently recorded a tune by
    overdubbing on a 4 track machine.  I now realize that I hate 2 of
    the sounds I used for two of the four parts.  If I want to change
    those sounds, I now have to re-record the parts.  With a MIDI
    sequencer, I could simply change the patches being used and maintain
    all the notes I initially recorded.  I think that's neat.
    
    	2.) By using a MIDI sequencer, I can build a song at home using
    my cheap keyboards and effects and then be able to bring my sequencer
    into a multi-$100K studio and use their synths, outboard effects,
    console, etc. to build a master quality recording.  Double neat!
    
    	3.) On those occassions where my writing ideas exceed my keyboard
    dexterity, I can use the sequencer to overcome my stumbling fingers.
    
    	4.) Although I'm not yet convinced about my using MIDI sequencing
    in live performance, I could potentially use my sequenced parts
    live and avoid having another keyboard player there to play the
    parts I can't because I have only 2 hands. 

    My feeling about the technology is this: I, as a keyboard player,
    am probably not going to make the drum parts on my TR707 sound as
    good as a good drummer would; by the same token, a drummer might
    not be able to produce keyboard parts as good as a hot keyboard
    player.  Who cares?  If the music sounds good, I'll listen to it.
    If it doesn't, I won't.  But I love the opportunity to play with
    my drum machine and get a basic groove going in a few minutes, much the
    same as I'm sure people without great keyboard skills love to be
    able to get a basic keyboard part with a little effort.

    		Derek
321.4You use a what?MOSAIC::SAVAGEFri Apr 25 1986 15:0315
    RE: the comment that started all this....
    
    FLAME-ON
    
    If you don't like sequencers - fine. As far as telling the rest
    of the world not to use them - go f*** yourself. Techniques
    tend to progress weather you can handle it or not. The ONLY thing
    that matters is how it sounds in the end. The means is totally irrelevant.
                              
    FLAME-OFF
          
    Anyway everyone knows only a wimpy-bleeding heart-pinko-commie-pin-head 
    would use a sequencer. :=)
    
    Dennis Savage
321.5STAR::MALIKKarl MalikFri Apr 25 1986 16:565
    Re; -1
    
    	I resent being called a pin-head.
    
    					- Karl
321.6CHUMP RECANTSCANYON::MOELLERCode Decomposition StinksMon Apr 28 1986 15:5616
    HI, guys!!!  Back from some nontraining in sunny California. I
    see I now have to eat some MAJOR CROW.
    
    I was uninformed, IGNORANT and opinionated....
    
    My previous exposure to sequencers was a P.O.S. step-time unit from
    godknowshere. 
    
    I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT ! And I apologize. There's nothing inherently
    noble in analog synths, multitracking, and ignoring MIDI. 
    
    What I HAVE seen will be replied into Karl Malik's topic on 'If
    ya could do it over again'.
    
    Karl Moeller
    
321.7Karl's a REAL MAN!ERLANG::FEHSKENSMon Apr 28 1986 16:247
    Real men recant with grace and humility.  You've shown us your stuff,
    Karl, and we're proud of you.
    
    You can sell your crystal radio and trade in your 78s now...  ;^)
    
    len.