Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Before you spend the money on a MAC and the Southworth software,
    take a look at the Hybrid Arts software for the 520ST. It won't
    be available until April, but from what I gather from talking to
    the people at Hybrid Arts it sounds very similar to the Southworth
    package. I have looked at the literature on the Southworth software
    and it does look very good. You'll have a better chance of comparing
    the two when next months issue of Keyboard comes out. Hybrid is
    suppose to have an ad in it for their 520 stuff. ( Capacity for
    the sequencer is something like 50,000 notes. 200,000 if you wait
    for the 1040ST. They say it will hold a 2 hour movie score. ) They
    also have a voicing/librarian program for the DX/TX synths available
    now. It's called DX-DROID and employs a form of AI that actually
    will program sounds for you based on other sounds in the library.
    Also available in the April time frame, a waveform editor for the
    Mirage called Oasis. Also in the works, a generic patch
    editor/librarian configurable for any synth. 
        I've heard good reports from people that have used the old Hybrid
    software on the 8-bit Atari's. If it is anything like the old stuff
    ( and I'm sure it will be much better ) it should be a great package.
    They say that they ARE taking full advantage of the 520s great
    graphics.
        If you're looking at full list prices on both machines ( MAC+
    + software vs 520 + software ) the 520 system will be about $1500-
    $2000 cheaper. The number for Hybrid Arts is (213)826-3777. Have
    fun deciding. I know what I'm buying.
    
    						Andre

    Brad,
    
    	I also have a Mac, have considered Total Music, but am leaning
    towards (haven't made the decision yet) Musicworks' MegaTracks+.
    
    	In most aspects, they are similar, but I think Musiciworks'
    stuff has the edge because it can transfer your piece to a Professional
    Composer file, which has the best notation software I have seen.

    	If you've considered Musicworks' and rejected them , I'd be
    interested in hearing your reasons.
    
    	Their phone number (in Boston) is (617) 266-2886.

    							- Karl

  I understand that there is a follow-on to "Professional Composer"
  called "Professional Performer" and that the combo has been chosen
  by some over "Total Music".  The line on "Total Music" is that
  is (was?) the standard of excellence for such packages.  All
  this is third-hand info.
  
  BTW: "Total Music" is written in FORTH and is not likely to be ported
  to any other devices.  Bill Southworth is focusing on the "high-end"
  of this market - motion picture studios and the like.  This is
  second-hand info.

  As for me, I'm trying to track down a dealer for the Hinton MIDIC
  to see if I can hook it up to my Rainbow.  I'll hack around on
  my own until I save up for an appropriate music computer.  Of
  course at 300 pounds the MIDIC ain't cheap.

    
    	Yes, Performer (by Mark of the Unicorn) is another option. 
    Musicworks poo-poos Performer because it does not have graphic
    representation.  And that concerns me.
    
    	What all of their brochures fail to make clear is the ease of
    moving between editing notation and hearing it.  Since Performer
    does not have a graphic display at all, I would have to 'convert'
    it to Professional Composer format (and then presumably boot PC
    and edit the file and then convert it back into Performer); this
    sounds incredibly tedious.
    
    	I *think* Total music allows you to edit music notation and
    hear it without any conversion, but, in all their ads, I have yet
    to see even a triplet, much less anything rhythmically complex.
    
    	MegaTracks+ offers a compromise.  It has a semi-musical graphic
    notation that can edited and immediately heard.  Then when you are
    happy with the result, you can dump it to Professional Composer
    (which they support) and edit it in musical notation.  The edited
    (and printable) score can then be converted back to megatracks for
    further input or editing.
    
    	Sure wish some store had these systems set up side-by-side so
    I could do a comparison.

    							- Karl

Re: -1  Comparison
    
    AMEN!  I've been driving all over the place just to find places that
    know anything at all about these packages, much less have them in stock
    for demo.  8^( 
    
Re: .3  (I hope) 520 Based Stuff
    
    I just got off the phone with Hybrid Arts.  Man, that new stuff sounds
    incredible!  I think my mind may have been changed.  Here's the deal:
    
    The software is essentially MIDI TRACK III with some enhancements.
    Unfortunately, I talked to a techno-dweebe, so I couldn't really get
    everything I wanted.  Don't know about notation or any of that jazz.
    Note capacity is 80-100K notes for 520.  It will "sync to anything".
    That means SMPTE, Roland, external clock, etc. 

    Price (including 520ST, monitor, kybd, external disk drive, and
    sequencer s/w) is $1390.  Not bad, considering the MAC/Southworth is
    currently $1899 (my best price, anyway). 
    
    Probably the most remarkable thing is the "trade up" deal they're
    offering.  If you buy the current system (130XE & MT III) for $697,
    they'll give you that amount in credit toward the 520 based system if
    you buy it this calendar year, and you get to keep, sell, or burn the
    130 system!  That's kind of incredible, if you ask me. That means that
    you can get used to the 130 based s/w now, and upgrade to the 520
    system when it's released for $694.  Since I've not used MIDI Track,
    I'll have to find someplace/one that has.  More footwork  >8^(
    
    520 system is available in May (.NOT. holding_breath)  As for DX-Droid,
    no time frame was given, but the price is $244.  Not bad for a system
    employing some AI.  Wonder how slow it is ... 

    BTW - I think the Atari uses 5.25 inch floppies.  That means I can
    finally do something useful with my old distributions of P/OS  ;^)

    
Brad

    RE: Hybrid Arts
    
    If anyone knows of anyplace where I can check out the 130XL package,
    I'd like to know.  I've been itching to get something, and it looks
    like we may need to get a new keyboard player.  Maybe if the software
    is good, we'll be able to do it ourselves!  (If anyone knows of
    a good keyboard player in Southern NH/Northern Mass - let me know)
             
    The trade-up deal sounds like the best thing since sliced bread.
    
    -Dave
    

    Unbelievable.
    
    I just called Hybrid Arts myself - wanted to verify that the upgrade
    deal was for real, and was told exactly the same thing.  If I can
    talk them into giving me a trial period with the 130XE, I may send
    for it.
    
    The XE advertisement itself is pretty much unreal, and the head
    of the sales department was extremely enthusiastic about the product.
    
    The following is right out of the advertisment:
    
    	Note capacity of 10,500 notes, or 21,000 MIDI events.
    	16 plyphonic, multifunction tracks.
    	Overdub capability on any track.
    	Real time or step edit recording.
    	Velocity encoding.  Allows velocity to be set, or to raise or
    	lower relative velocity.  Even reassignment of velocity for
    	automated mixing.
        Built-in digital delay.  Allows any track to be copied, prelayed
    	or delayed by any increment, velocity adjusted, and recombined.
    	Records the full MIDI spec including all program changes, pitch
    	wheel, plus all 128 MIDI controllers (mod wheel, breath controller,
    	sustain pedal, volume for automated mix, etc.) With the ability
    	to enable and disable on both record and playback.
    
    	(Other features were listed, but those seemed the most interesting)
    
    	Synchronization Features:
    
    	Sync to tape with or without a drum machine.
    	Master or slave, internal/external sync.
    	MIDI clock sync.
    	Lock up (Without locate) to SYMPTE.
    	Locks to all drum machines, even the low cost (one clock per
    	beat) machines.
    	Simultaneously outputs:MIDI, clock, beat, and Roland sync.
    
    	Other features:
    
    	Remotely starts and stops both MIDI and non-MIDI drum machines
    	and keyboards.
    	Patch selection from computer or master synth.
    	Tempo adjustment during recording/playback.
    
    They also have a BBS with DX/CZ patches, songs, and MIDI information.
    
    Hybrid Arts Inc.
    11920 W. Olympic Blvd.
    Los Angeles, Ca. 90064
    
    Main office: (213) 826-3777  Computer: (213) 826-4288
    

    Well, I got the head of the sales department to OK the deal for
    me to get a 14-day trial period with the software.  If I don't
    like it (Which the guy seriously doubts, as I do too) or if I
    find any bugs in the software, I can return it for my money back.
    
    I'm having it shipped COD since I don't have a major credit card
    to charge it on.  It should be here by the end of next week.  When
    it comes in and I've had a chance to mess with it, I'll post a
    review in a separate note.
    
    Taking the plunge,
    -Dave

    There's a new magazine out called "Keyboards, Computers and Software"
    (I think that's what the S was for) that features an extensive
    enumeration of software available for Macs, Apple IIs, C64s, IBM
    PCs and Amigas in its first issue.  There's not much else to recommend
    the first issue (the only other article of note is an unexceptional
    review of the CZ-5000), but this enumeration is helpful.
    
    MIDI guitarists should also check out the latest Electronic Musician
    which features an extensive discussion of MIDI guitar technology.
    
    len.
    

    I called Hybrid Arts this week.  The latest word on the ST software
    is that timeframe is now June.  I asked what the status is, and
    was told that they have it working with 60 tracks now, and they're
    pushing for 200 before release!  They apparently weren't kidding
    when they said you would be able to record a movie score on it.
    
    Still haven't had time to write a good review of the 130XE package,
    but I was happy enough with it that I didn't send it back :^)
    
    Patience...
    
    -Dave

    So is there any news of the Hybrid Arts midi software, when can
    I dust off my ST and get it going. Maybe I should look into the
    Steiberg Research "Twenty Four" first. By the way, does anybody
    know if the DX-Droid will work with DX21/27/100 also, or just
    DX/TX7.
    
    Svein.
    

    Consider a Fat Mac with 2 floppy drives, Opcode MIDI interface and
    Opcode MidiMac software. For $1600. Is this any kind of deal? No
    printer, plenty of floppies.
    
    Sync-to-tape: are there addons which allow a (FSK?) sync tone to
    be recorded on a tape track, and, then when playing back, the sequencer
    will sync to it? "to which the sequencer will sync?". The Opcode
    interface has 'sync-to-MIDI', but this isn't the same issue, is
    it?
    
    Sequencer Track Editing: assume a certain person records a free-form
    sequencer track WITHOUT listening to the sequencer's metronome.
    Now assume this techno-dweebe wishes to PUNCH IN a part. Since the
    sequencer uses BAR/BEAT to keep track of things, and (second-order
    assumption) since the metronome and the invisible bar lines are
    inextricably linked, would this metronome-ignoring pud be hosed
    on punchin/editing issues?
    
    Track Editing II: this maladroit goes on to attempting to segment
    and classify the sections of his sequencer (single track)
    improvisation. "That's the first theme... that part only occurs
    once... second theme...nice improv,like to include this again at
    the end as a fade...now I want to hear the first theme again..."
    Can this kind of massive compositional reorganization be made if
    the original piece was all in one sequence? Especially if the metronome
    had been ignored? Can one do this kind of editing inside one sequence, 
    or would it be better to fragment the piece into multiple sequences, 
    then link the sequences? Can one record into one sequence, THEN
    create multiple sequences out of it? I know this is all software-
    dependent, but this kind of functionality is what I WILL be 
    looking for...
    
    Has anyone done this kinda stuff? After the sequences are linked,
    remember this is a single-track 'piano' improv, would the fragmentation
    frustrate further orchestration? "this violin line has a legato
    phrase which spans the weld between Seq A and Seq C." On another
    track, of course, but would all the linked sequences make it a bitch
    to do MIDI overdubs?
    
    And, sequencer overdubs complete, THEN the Sync tone on multitrack
    becomes important, as this person has many more parts in the sequencer
    than MIDI synthesizers available, so would have to repeatedly dub
    the next sequencer track thru the next synth patch on to tape, until
    death do you part...
    
    Whew.... this isn't easy. Karl Moeller
  

    re -1.... was it something I said? Or didn't say? There are some
    very valid sequencer questions back there... is it that there aren't
    any Mac owners out there? The questions are more generic and conceptual
    than specific to the Opcode sequencer software.
    
    So come on, you sequencer owners! Check out 253.12 and tell me what
    it's like !
    
    karl moeller

    OK, I'll give it a shot...
    
    Your gonna be in deep wazoo if you ignore the metronome on your
    sequencer. Sequencers don't dig randomness anymore than any other
    computers do. STAY AWAY FROM *QUANTIZATION*!. This little feature
    will take your free-form composition and force it to fit into the
    sequencer's own idea of what's "right". You CAN use a sequencer
    to record your composition, free-form or not. But since the sequencer
    will see everything as recorded in measures of 3, 4, 5, 12 or whatever
    beats per measure, you're gonna have a hard time "cutting and 
    pasteing". The best analogy I can think of is trying to use the
    keypad editor on a vt1XX when you have placed spaces randomly about
    your text. Where does one word start? Where does this word end?
    I hope you get the picture. 
    
    Assuming you get by that and have cut and pasted your way into
    compostional heaven, adding new MIDI sequencer tracks shouldn't
    be a problem. These too, will have to be played just as freely
    as your piano track though with respect to the sequencer metronome.
    They will however have to be EXACTLY in time with your piano track.
    
    With respect to C&P'ing. With your freeform comps, you can still
    cut and paste, but you're gonna have to pay a LOT of attention to
    the end of the sequence you intend to append to in order to have
    it segue nice and clean into the pasted part. It is possible to
    have 2 or more piano tracks running, with the subsequent parts
    adding passing tones for a smooth transition.
    
    Finding a sequencer/software that will quantize to minute parts
    (128th, 256th? 512th?!?!) of a measure will help. If you want to
    work with a sequencer you gotta talk it's language.
    
    Edd
    
    

    Re. -2 the only thing I would add to -1 is the ability to edit MIDI
    events. I have seen a guy using some software from a company called
    C-LAB? that allowed you to peek and poke every event in the sequence
    this allowed you to edit in patch changes and velocity info etc.
    He seemed to be making good use of this feature. 
                                PAUL.
    				
    I was thinking of having my whole life quantised 
    so I would start and leave work on time (good family feature).
    
    

    I thought a bit more. I don't know if this is inherent to all
    sequencers, but here's how it works on my QX7...
    
    Consider the following scenario...Suppose you start a measure with
    a "note on" message (this could come anywhere in the measure) and
    hold it until beat 2 of the following measure. On b3m2 you hit 
    another note and hold that until the end of m3. If you now try to
    insert a phrase between m1 & m2, the first note you hit will sound
    right through the inserted phrase because no "note off" was recieved.  
    It will continue to sound until b2m3 where the note off message
    lives. You can easily see how this is gonna raise havoc. Some
    sequencers may have the facility to insert "note on" or "note off"s
    at will. Mine don't. The QX7 does not allow you to start a measure
    with anything but a note or a rest. You can't start it with a
    "continue". (Continue what?) You also can't cut a measure that begins
    with a tie and paste it somewhere else. Just doesn't work. 
    
    Edd
    
    

What Kapitan Karl is asking for is damn near impossible, what Major Tom is
asking for is merely difficult. (My opinion, open for discussion.)

What Karl wants is something like a natural language analyzer coupled with a
voice recognition system. He wants to be able to recite a poem and have the
system not only remember the sounds, but break it down into the primitive
language units so that it can be easily massaged in interesting ways later.

What Tom wants (although maybe he wants more than he's asking for) is
something like DECtalk combined with something like WPS-PLUS. He wants
a system in which one can notate everything that's syntactically legal, and
a semantic translator that can accurately realize what that notation is
supposed to represent.

Don.

    
    	It's still too early to give a review of Performer (Mark of
    the Unicorn's sequencer package for the Mac), but one big drawback
    is that "at the current time" you cannot have more than one meter
    in a piece.
    
    	That's, of course, terrible. I had this limitation with my Chroma
    setup and got around it by setting the meter to the lowest common
    denominator (1/16, 1/32, etc.).  This may work with Performer too.
    After you get the piece to sound like you want, you can dump it
    to the notation editor and add meter-changes to your heart's content.
    
    	If the granularity is small enough, 'recording' freeform rhythms
    is no problem at all.  Performer deals in terms of ticks (480th
    of a beat).  At fast tempos, this is sufficient.
    
    	The real problem comes when trying to print out your piece in
    music notation.  You MUST quantitize or even the simplest rhythms
    will come out looking like Elliot Carter (if they come out at all).
    
    	Performer seems to be quite flexible in this area, offering
    a range of note values to quantitize to (including dotted notes
    and all manner of 'tuplets') and sensitivity setting (which I haven't
    tried yet).
    
    	I think the problem with a lot of the sequencer/notation software
    is with the programmers.  They are usually pretty simple minded
    about music.  I think this will change as 'desk-top music publishing'
    comes of age, and the demand for packages capable of handling the
    full range of traditional notation grows.  Music typesetting/engraving
    is *expensive* (especially for complex pieces) - the market is there.
    
    	Right now, it's a trade-off.  I can't do meter or tempo changes.
    But, I can cut and paste sections, transpose, invert, retrograde,
    etc. Lotsa power.  And, if I do get the piece to sound great, and
    get a rough approximation in notation, I can always do the final
    copy in pen and ink and make it perfect.
    
    						,Karl Malik (not Moeller)
    
    p.s. Had fun last night.  Played random pitches/rhythms all over
    the keyboard, 6 tracks deep.  Quantitized to 32nd notes, printed
    it out in 4/4.  The result looked like some very serious, intellectual
    score you might see in Perspectives of New Music.  And even more
    impressive is that I can play it - I mean, I've got the recording
    to prove it! :-)

    Well ! thank you all. I recently heard (at L.A. success train) the
    term 'granularity' used in reference to a specific network device.
    At the time I dismissed it as a Young Yuppieism (like, totally
    granular!). 
    
    The reason for all the questions in .12 is that it would be nice
    to be able to just improvise a digital piano track into the sequencer,
    WITHOUT METRONOME, in varying tempos/time signatures, and then 'Word
    Process' the musical ideas into a finished composition. And then,
    of course, layer additional MIDI tracks into the sequencer.

    Okay. I see the deal. How about this scenario: unnamed pianist tapes
    a perfect 1/2 hour improvisation in stereo on a multitrack. After
    listening, this pianist decides to orchestrate said piece. He stripes
    an unused tapetrack with FSK or SMPTE or SMPL or some damn thing.
    He wires up his Mac-based Generic Sequencer to slave to the sync
    tone. Now, no segment editing to do (because the original taped
    piano tracks are PERFECT), actually only punchin/out to do. Multiple
    tracks of sample patches... which are transferred to the multitrack
    one sequencer track at a time, because there's only ONE sample synth
    available for audio.
    
    Any hitches to this scenario ?
    
    thanks. karl moeller (not malik)
    
        

    
    Yeah, that's the ticket!
    
    Edd

    I've stayed out of this so far because my dedicated sequencers (MSQ-100
    and MSQ-700) seemed to not be what Karl was talking about, and there's
    no Amiga sequencing software worth talking about yet (I'm waiting
    for the Mimetics SoundScape stuff which is promised "real soon now").
    
    However, much of this discussion reads like the "requirements spec"
    I am working up for the Amiga based sequencer I'm going to implement
    one of these days.  Is it worth typing up my ideas and starting
    a new note on "Requirements for Computer Based Sequencers"?  We've
    got a lot of computer and musical knowledge hanging around the net
    here, I'll bet we could spec a really keen system; then we could
    start thinking about multiple implementations for all our different
    PCs, and the file formats would all be compatible so we could swap
    data etc...
    
    len.
    

    Remember this note? When last we met here, I was asking plaintively
    whether I would be able to record 'solo piano' pieces into a sequencer
    (specifically Opcode MIDIMac) without using the metronome.
    
    Well, I've got it and it works. I can even EDIT chunks of data since
    the edit block goes to the BAR / BEAT / SUB level. 'SUB' is a portion 
    of a beat! So if I need to punch in at a particular spot, for either
    part replacement or trimming dead space off the end of a sequence,
    I just let it play to the spot I want, punch STOP or PAUSE. The
    display shows where we are down to BAR/BEAT. However, if I SET the
    punchin spot, it AUTOMATICALLY copies the current location into
    the punchin address. I let it play and again STOP or PAUSE at the
    punchout point, then SET automatically copies the current location,
    down to the SUB level, into the punchout address. At the end of
    a sequence there's always dead space since I can't reach the mouse
    fast enough. There, I just specify punchIN one beat after the last
    note, and specify NO punchout address. It works, and I NEVER HEAR
    THE METRONOME.
    
    One thing that bothers me, though. I recorded 2 sequences totalling
    no more than 7 minutes of music, and it took over 60K to save it
    on floppy! I'm moving into longer pieces, and was hoping to use
    the Mac and sequencer to help me assemble them. 
    
    When I recorded these, I left the SPEED on the 120bpm default setting.
    Tonight I will experiment with the SPEED setting. My experiment:
    using a separate metronome, I will record the same progression with
    the internal speed set at various points. And then compare the size
    of the saved sequences. I HOPE that storage requirements will go down 
    as the speed decreases, as there are fewer BAR / BEAT divisions... are 
    these part of the sequence ? Is this a valid approach to condensing
    the sequence sizes ? 
    
    If I can't do this, then there's a 2meg memory and hard disk in
    my immediate future... unplanned expenses. 
    
    karl moeller

    The internal representation of a sequence should be independent
    of tempo - otherwise you (sorry, the sequencer)'d have to do too
    real time processing to map from the recorded tempo to the performed
    tempo.  I believe time within the internal representation is
    represented relative to the MIDI clock or some subdivision thereof
    (i.e., it's beat based).  The bar lines, beat counts, whatever they
    are, get stored regardless of the tempo.  The storage requirements
    are less a function of elapsed time than of number of events (NOTE
    ONs, NOTE OFFs, program changes, bends, aftertouch, etc.).  So,
    I'd not expect you to see any storage savings.  Consider - an MC500
    gets about 40000 notes on an 880K DSDD 3.5" disk; that's 22 bytes
    per note effectively, a lot more than the 4 bytes that actually
    get sent.  That's the sort of overhead that seems inevitable.
    
    For reasonably complicated stuff, notes get used up fast; my "cover"
    of the 6th Brandenburg's first movement (6 parts, mostly 16ths in
    4 of them, mostly 1/8ths in 2 of them) wiped out the 6000 note capacity
    of my MSQ-100 in 51 bars.  Unfortunately the 1st movement is quite
    a bit longer.
    
    len.
     

    Len, your MC-500 is still not in yet?  Who'd you order it from?
    
    DD

    Roland of course!  ;^)
    
    E U Wurlitzer in Framingham.  They had them but they went to
    people who were in line ahead of me.  Now they're backordered.
    I already have a deposit on one so I can't go elsewhere.  Mine was
    promised to me two weeks ago but Roland hasn't come through with
    the followup shipment yet.  I gather a fair number of them were
    taken by the Boston store.  Internal store politics.  I had to pay
    the rent last week anyway.
    
    len.
    

    Last night I did some experiments with the Mac.
    
    I didn't like the results. The Mac is gone.
    
    Experiment A: Recorded the same 8-bar piece four times, at the same
    playing tempo. Used the INTERNAL METRONOME for these.. no
    rule-breaking.
    
    a1 : 120 bpm  8 bars ............ 7064 bytes on disk
    a2 :  60 bpm  4 bars ............ 7724 bytes
    a3 : 240 bpm 16 bars ............ 7712 bytes 
    a4 : 360 bpm 24 bars ............ 7184 bytes

    What could be happening ? 7-8Kbytes for 8 measures of slow chords ?????
    
    Experiment B: continued the previous night's sequence building,
    but used the internal metronome. Added two more short sequences.
    Saved them to disk, and saw that this named file was up to 96K.
    Got back in, played them end-to-end and timed them. They added up
    to 2Min 45Sec... solo piano playing.
    
    Let's see... 96Kbytes = 2.75 minutes. 96K to 468K is approx. a factor
    of 5... so 5 X 2.75 minutes = approx. 13 minutes of solo piano
    recording before I'm out of memory and disk. This is with NO additional
    tracks or 'overdubs'. Totally unacceptable.
    
    Perhaps the KX88 is flooding the sequences with (useless for the
    Roland MKS-20 Digital Piano) aftertouch information. I DO use the
    pedal a lot, but that shouldn't be it. I hear that the DX-7 sends
    some kind of 'here I am' MIDI signal ever 25 uSec... wonder if the
    KX88 has the same emissions level. There's certainly no pitchbend
    or LFO controller info going on. There might be a MIDIweeder program
    writable or purchasable, but it implies that I know precisely what
    to remove.. and what to leave..meaning I'd have to learn the internals
    of these sequencer tracks as well as the original authors.
    
    So my error was thinking that a 1-hour recording session 3 months
    ago was a good demo... in fact I played quite differently, used
    'looping' on two tracks, etc... wrong from the get-go..
    
    CONCLUSION: I broke every evaluation/configuration rule that I know
    for corporate computer purchases. And, indeed, given that the pieces
    I am working on are longer than they used to be (my requirements
    are themselves a moving target), I conclude that the Mac in its
    current memory/disk configuration is not useful to me. It is indeed
    possible to get more memory and either hard disk or double-sided
    floppy drives, but any money put into the Mac is money not available
    for the still completely-necessary (because I'll only have two MIDI
    modules, the 'piano' and sampler) 8 track recorder.
    
    karl moeller
        

    re: .28--I'm not sure why the music is taking so much space, but I can
    guess.  I optimized my sequencer's internal representation for space
    rather than speed.  As a result a note normally takes only 4 bytes, if
    you are using just one instrument and no modulation wheel, pitch
    bending or release velocity.  Unfortunately that makes all processing
    except record and playback very also if you have a lot of notes in
    memory, because you have to do a lot of sequential searches.  I put in
    a pointer cache to make displaying faster, but it still isn't fast
    enough for me.  I speculate that the MAC uses an internal format that
    lets it perform operations quickly, and that they therefore need more
    than 4 bytes per note. 
    
    My solution to this problem (I have it too, even with only 4 bytes per
    note, since I am running from an Apple IIe) is to divide the music into
    sections, and have a sequencer file for each.  When you have all the
    sections perfected, lay them onto tape, using SMPTE to get the timing
    right.  You will only be able to do this if your MIDI sequencer can
    accept the MIDI Start and Clock messages from the MIDI In port while
    playing on MIDI OUT. 
        John Sauter 

    re -1: shorter sequences/SMPTE lock... I know that it's possible
    to do this, but I don't want to partition my pieces in this manner.
    The bytes per note issue is intriguing.. obviously TONS of disk
    overhead going on.
    
    karl

    Karl, 
    
    	I've noticed that my kx88/Performer setup does (as you wondered)
    put out a ton of after-touch info.  I haven't figured out how to
    filter this out, yet.
    
    	Why dump the Mac without trying different software?
    
    	I'll try an 8-bar series of chords and let you know how much
    memory/disk space Performer uses.
    
    	Suggestion:  Call OpCode directly and speak with one of their
    technicians.
    
    						- Karl
    

    Karl,
    
    	You're right, I was hasty. And hot. The more I worked with it
    the less right it felt. And, possibly fallacious assumption, it's
    unlikely that competitive Mac-resident sequencer software would
    be 3 to 4 times more memory/disk efficient than Opcode MIDIMac.
    
    	And a factor of 3 or 4 is what I would need. My next recording
    project looks like a 20 - 30 (!) minute piano solo (carefully planned)
    which is then overdubbed with 4 - 7 separate tracks meant for the
    as-yet-unpurchased sampler. More money (and time) spent trying to
    force the Mac into my needs sounds (sounded) like spitting into
    the ocean (pissing into the wind?). Money & time better spent on
    sampler and 8track purchase and research.
    
    	Anyway, it's academic now, the Mac's well on its way back where
    it came from. 

                                                   Karl

    RE: .28
    
    The Passport software I had for my C64 allowed you to set it so
    that aftertouch and "active sensing" (what you refer to as the 
    'here I am' MIDI signal) could be filtered out and ignored by the
    recorder. They claimed in the manual that this would save mucho
    memory when recording. Sounds like you may want to check for this
    kind of feature in a sequencer if you plan to be recording long
    pieces that don't require the extra MIDI data.
    
    Rob
    

    
    	I tried a couple of experiments on my Performer software last
    night.
    
    	1) Not having a good intuitive sense of just how much of a limit
    66,000 notes is (that's the limit of my sequencer), I just started
    recording and playing (and watching a stopwatch and the memory).
    
    	Played lotsa notes, big chords, trills, etc.  Got just about
    12 minutes before memory filled up.  (also, get this - instead of
    announcing that memory was full, the system just crashed!)

    	Later I got out the manual and found out that I *can* filter
    out certain info during recording.  I set the filter to eliminate
    aftertouch info and retried the experiment.
    
    	Results - Got up to 18 minutes of lotsa notes, with lotsa
    memory still free, when the doorbell rang.  Will retry this tonight.
    
    						,km1

    When last we met, there was a deep moan regarding the capacity of
    the Fat Mac as sequencer.
    
    Well, the results are in, and once again I'm the fool. I was hotheaded,
    hasty, and sloppy in my problem evaluation. I keep thinking of the
    KX88 as a KEYBOARD instead of the computer it is. As a realtime
    programmer, 'C' and Assembler, I have no excuse for not diving into
    the MIDI implementation chart. After all, it's only ASCII with control
    bytes!
    
    My West Coast Tech Resource took my sequences, 2.75 minutes/96Kbytes,
    and 'rerecorded' them (played them THRU his) with a DX7, and found
    that my 96K sequence shrunk to.... 16K.      muy embarrasso...
    
    My East Coast Tech Resource took a 41K sequence, and, after merely
    shutting off the KX88 Aftertouch, shrunk it to..... 14K.
    
    Well, it ain't the first time, and it won't be the last. Glad I
    didn't sell the Mac in haste. It seems the KX88 is designed to send
    all kinds of MIDI data to all kinds of MIDI devices simultaneously.
    If not set up properly for the recording, the illfated sequencer
    is faced with recording every last bit sent, regardless of relevance.
    
    This DOES imply some preplanning. A sampled violin sequence would
    definitely require aftertouch, while a sequence track destined to
    play thru the MKS-20 Digital Piano definitely does NOT require after-
    touch. 
    
    karl moeller the unwise
    
    karl moeller