Conference napalm::commusic_v1

	A month ago I went to a demonstration at Lasell's in boston
	featuring Sequential-Circuits stuff. They had the ever popular
	prophet-600 and T-8, a Six-trak and two Maxes and two Drumtraks.

	My opinions:

	  The two prophets sounded versatile, but personaly most
	  of the prophet sounds that I've ever heard where a little
	  to coarse, that is they're jarring, impressive but disquieting. 

	  The Six-trak had the same sonic quality as do all SC keyboards,
	  but the multi-tracking (6 tracks of course) functions were
	  definitly a plus.

	  The Max, as I understand it, is the same as a Six-trak but
	  the voicings all preprogramed. There are drum voices in it.

	  The Drumtracks I found had some really nice features, like
	  individual MIDI volume control (8 volumes) for all voices.
	  Plus 8 cymbal "tones"; it sounded as if the digital data 
	  recording of the cymbal was successively slowed down for each
	  tone. This could be used for a striking effect by rapidly
	  triggering the cymbal, each time transposing the tone down.
	  It was reminicent of a electronic-cymbal-flange. Knock that
	  against similer attributes for all voices.
	  Contrast this against the Linndrum machine, which has pretty
	  limited (by comparison) front panel adjustments for changing
	  the voices, none of which are available to the MIDI bus. However
	  each Linn voice has a seperate output jack (we all know what 
	  to do with those). 
	  My friend went with me. He wasn't impressed with the SC sounds,
	  He prefers the Linn and OB-8 sounds (of course thats what he
	  owns), remarking that "the Linn has a more REAL sound, and the
	  Oberheim sounds fuller". I can't argue with that, but I did like
	  the Drumtraks MIDI features plus the tone controls.

	All in all there is room in the world for both machines, and
	the Drumtraks definitly cost less money. I personally think
	the Linn is about "played out" considering almost any commercial
	your hear has got the thing chugging away in the background.
	I HATE COMMERCIALS!

	Anyway the guy running the show had the whole kitten-kaboddle
	hooked into a Commadore-64 MIDI controller. And while the
	machines wailed away, in a most complex and multi-layered way,
	he was doing some passable lead riffs on the T-8.


	John (I want this keyboard and that drum machine and that delay
	      and that expander and this controller and that...etc) Walton

	Say how much is that TR-707 roland machine??
	And does anyone know how much for the Drumtrak??

	John

I bought mine for $560.00. It still is not in though. 4-6 weeks lead time.
And only 1-3 to go.
					Dave of the chanpagne taste *db*

	DID YOU GET IT YET!!?????
	If so, how is it??
	I bought a Korg DDM-110 super drums just for hell of it.
	It's fun, but I wouldn't call it super.
	All the voices sound PCM 8-bit so the sound isn't that great.
	But, it programs nice. And you can do Song chains.

	John

	Oh yes, some digital doubling and reverb improved the
	sound 100%, so you could call it Good drums.

	John

The 707 has more (if not all) digital sounds. 909 only the crash and ride
are digital (same recording on both machines).
909 has twice the memory capacity of the 707.
I'm not sure, but I think the 707 has no cartridge slot. 909 does.
909 sounds are tunable. 707 are not but you get a few to choose between.
707 has LCD display showing one measure of score so you can see what's playing.
909 has goofy and complicated method of selectively displaying parts of 
programs.
909 can do insert, delete, merge, and copy of measures, ranges of measures,
whole songs, and whole banks. 707 can't. That's what happens when you get
user friendly.

My experience has been that if you don't know how to make complicated and
interesting riffs and rhythm changes then you'll find the extra features of
the 909 superfluous and in fact in the way. Most people in fact program the
smae measure over and over, perhaps with one roll tossed in every 8 measures.
I don't. The last time I took a tape to E. U. Wurlitzer and played it for them,
they didn't believe that the drums were done on the 909. That's because they
never saw anybody PROGRAM it right. Roland made the 707 becuase most people
just can't use the 909's features. They thought that the rest of us 
perfectionists would still buy the 909 at 1000 bucks. Well, there just aren't
that many, so they dropped the price. By the way, computers aren't friendly
when you think about it. They have over 100 buttons on them and these buttons
always mean different things depending on what buttons you hit previously.
Hmmm, sounds like the 909 to me. You might equate 707-users with people
who like the Macintosh. "I'll settle for 3 functions if all I have to do is
push this one little button."

	Ted

re: .6--The fact that you were upset when the RX-15 and TR-707 came out after
you had purchased the TR-909 makes be suspect that you broke my strongest
rule: buy a product only if you will be satisfied with it.  If there is no
product on the market that satisfies your needs, wait a few months, one will
appear.  If the product does do what you want then you will not be unhappy
when a better product is announced, because your needs are satisfied.

Of course, your needs may change with time.  When they do, redefine your
needs and return to the marketplace, looking for a product to satisfy them.

If you fall into the trap of constantly wanting the latest and greatest you
had better have a lot of money, because the manufacturers will drain you
at a high rate.  This is a fast-moving industry!
    John Sauter

I wasn't comparing the 909 against the RX-11 (was that the number?). I've
never seen the Yamaha machine. I was comparing the 909 and the 707. I admit
the 909 is a bxxxx to program but I don't mind and I get more from it than
a 707. Perhaps if I tried the Yamaha, I'd like it even more.

	Ted

   Re: 51.7

   I've had a TR-707 for about six months now and I love it.  I am a 
   drummer and with the right kind of programming the 707 can do 
   some amazing stuff.  Despite what's said in item 51.7, the 707 DOES 
   have a slot for an M64C cartridge (about $70), that triples its 
   capacity.  This means a 707 tape load plus M64C will allow you to store
   12 tracks' worth of drums (i.e., 12 songs) and all the necessary 
   patterns (a total of 192 different measures, but accessable only 64 at 
   a time).  This is essentially a set's worth of material.

   Furthermore, the 707 DOES support insert, delete and copy operations, 
   from anyplace to anyplace for any number of bars.  This is an extremely
   useful feature; I wish my MSQ-100 and MSQ-700 could do the same.

   As a drummer, I find the 707's sounds far superior to the 909's.  I 
   picked up a 909 at half price (they appear to be being "remaindered"), 
   and I often double the 707's tomtoms with the 909's to fatten up the 
   sound.  And yes, as someone else noted somewhere, a little reverb goes 
   a long way in making the 707 sound even better.  While the cymbals on
   both machines are their weakest points, having two different crashes 
   and two different rides comes in handy every now and then.

   I used to think that drum machines sounded "mechanical" because of the 
   rock steady tempo (no accelerando, no ritardando, no subtlety);  my 
   experience has taught me that dynamics make far more of a difference 
   in producing a "live" sound.  My (three piece) band uses sequenced 
   keyboards to accompany our basic guitar/bass/drums configuration, and 
   to keep in sync with the sequencers/synthesizers I listen (through 
   headphones) to a "click" track supplied by a TR-606 repeating one bar 
   of basic time.  Nobody has ever complained about the band sounding 
   mechanical, even though for a given song the tempo is invariant.
   So, when programming the 707, use the accent facility liberally, it 
   makes a BIG difference.  The loss of the per-voice accents that the 909 
   offers turns out to be not much of a loss; not many non-stellar 
   drummers can handle different dynamics for each limb anyway.

   When recording with the 707, I often modulate the tempo manually if 
   necessary; we record the synthesizers at the same time so they stay in 
   sync, and then do live overdubs for the guitars and vocals.
   If necessary, I also "gain ride" the 707's master volume for large 
   scale (i.e., crescendo, decrescendo) dynamics.  Since the 707 (and the
   909 I think) is velocity sensitive through the MIDI interface, you 
   could do this sort of stuff (with a much wider range of accents) with
   a suitably capable sequencer or composition system. 

   Len (SIVA::) Fehskens

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Note 2795.0                  need Roland TR707 info!                  No replies
ONEDGE::CICCARELLI "Michaeldavid | 297-9935 | Techn" 11 lines  19-DEC-1991 09:16
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    Can anyone out there offer some Roland TR707 assistance?  I've recently
    acquired a used one at a great price (thanks Jon), but I do not have
    any documentation for it.  I have a few basic operational questions I'd
    like to ask someone with some experience (mostly centered around
    setting up the TR707 for an external clock and midi msg channel
    reciept).
    
    If you're willing to help, I'd greatly appreciate a VAXmail at
    INSURE::CICCARELLI
    
    Thanks...Michaeldavid