Conference kaosws::canada

    Brian
    
    What if you factor in the tax component on plan B against no tax
    on plan C.  Does this level the playing field?
    
    dh

    Don't know... but I would not be able to pay for my lease so it
    really wouldn't matter.
    
    
    Just on the surface though I run about 70 % business and about 20,000
    km/year business so I  am able to keep my taxable benifit to about 
    $1-3k/year. Even if I was taxed at a rate of 100 % on this amount it 
    might still just break out even with car plan C.
    
               Brian V
    
     

    I don't want to fight other peoples battles but it appears that this
    is just the latest in a series of expenses that Digital is trying to
    force onto its employees.
    
    Drug plan cut to 80 %
    Dental cut to one visit per year
    Ellimination of car plan A
    
    
    Situation : When Digital still had car plan A an employee that signed 
    up for it could not get out officially for one year and unofficially
    for 3 years or until the vehicle reached 96k whichever was sooner.
    
    Question : Does Digital have a commitment or contract with its car 
    plan B employees that they can break with only 2 months notice ?
    
    I know that my lease is with PHH but it is for 50 months and I'm only
    9 months into it. As long as I am employed by Digital in a job that 
    requires me to have a vehicle then I think that Digital should stand
    by its original commitment to me. (allowing for minor adjustments due
    to inflation up or down) 
    
    
    	What's your opinion
    
    Brian V
    

    
>    for 3 years or until the vehicle reached 96k whichever was sooner.
    
    I didn't know about the 96K limit, are you sure about that?
    
    I am still on Car Plan A, and I am approaching to 96K fast.
    
    Thanks
    
    Lale
    

I'm with Brian,

When Digital canned Plan A, they forced people who were on it to get
vehicles that conformed to the company car standards and put them on Plan
B.  People bought/leased vehicles based on those standards and on the
monthly allowances and are now making payments.  I dont think it's fair of
DEC to can the plan with two lousy months notice.  They owe these people
more than that.

There is another problem with this plan:  A co-worker and myself are
currently on long term assignment at a customer site.  We both drive
directly from  our homes to the site.  It just so happens that he lives 5
KM away and I live 50 KM.  There is no way he can make 4800 KM in a six
month period to stay on Plan B.

Dave.

    Lale,
    
    	Yes its 96,000 km as a rule. Digital used to use this so that they
    would be assured of getting something out of the vehicle by selling it,
    and also to avoid the big repair bill that come with high mileage.
    
    	There have been many acceptions made by individual manager but the
    96K was fleets policy (when we had a fleet admin).
    
    
    Brian V
    
    PS you can bet that if your still on car plan A they are going to try
       and force you off as soon as possible.

For those people who now drives less than 9.6k a year they probably would
be a bit more aggresive in putting more business miles on their plan B
car because $364/mo is a lot of money when you have to pay your car loan
or lease payment. This may mean unnecessary site visits or more "direct
form home to customer site" activities. Trips may be planned to claim
them max number of kms instead of saving money.

I don't know how they get the 32�/km for those who exceed 20k. I think
the increase should be progressive from 9�/km to 32�/km instead of a big
jump.

The fleet always say that our plan B is inline with other companies and
they do research on a continue basis to make sure that the reimbursment
is sufficient to cover our costs but they never publish how other
companies' plan looks like nor do they tell us what formule they use to
figure out the cost of running a motor vehicle nowadays. I personally am
making money from the plan because I have only 60% business (some techs
have 95%+) and I am using a 5 year old car(ie. my plan B benifit is more
than my business milage pro-rated auto expenses). I cannot see how the
car plan can justify a new car (said a Tarrus or an Accord) every 3 year
with 90% or more business portion. In the past people have the choice to
go for plan A or B but now we are stucked with plan B (or C if you wish).


David

    As it is always the case for excess in the past, the excess will be in
    the oposite direction.  How long did we have all kinds of people with
    company cars which were used EXCLUSIVELY for home--->work and back
    without a SINGLE customer or site visit.
    
    Jean
    

    If you don't qualify for car plan B but require a vehicle for work,
    
    1. will Digital provide me with a leased car/floater/specialist
       vehicle ?
    
    2. Can Digital still try to enforce its car requirements on you ?
       model years/condition/size 
    
    3. If you make life difficult for Digital will you be here after the 
       next round of (insert PC terminology here) ?
    
    
    
    	re -1 yes it would be interesting to see everyones 1994 T2200
    	      and compare it to 1995's.
    
    	      This could end up costing Digital even more
    
    
    Brian V
    

re .10

>   1. will Digital provide me with a leased car/floater/specialist
>      vehicle ?

Don't think so but if you do need to go outside the office on occasional
basis then we should be able to claim cab fare or car rental or the
manager should have someone else to go for that trip.

>    2. Can Digital still try to enforce its car requirements on you ?
>       model years/condition/size 

I believe there is no such a restriction on plan C as long as your car
can take you to your destination.

David C

    What about on a regular basis that doesnt total more than
    4800km/6months ?
    
    
    How many software types or CSE's in Toronto or Montreal put on
    less than 4800 but use thier vehicle for work every day ?
    
    
    Brian V
    
    

    If you are greater than 80% billable and drive to the customer for all
    engagements you have good chance of making the 4800, but it's by no
    means guarenteed. 
    
    Given that DC corporate targets for billability are somewhat less than
    80% I think lots of DC folks will lose Plan B. I beginning to think
    that the catch phrase for FY95 wil be "get yourself another boy".  

Getting back to the concept of "industry standards"...

HP occupies the building across the parking lot from us.  Until they
moved in, the parking lot was relatively empty.  Now it is full of
Ford Tauruses and Taurus wagons, each equiped with a cell phone.

I would like to know what kind of "industry standards" their car plan 
complies with?

Dave.

    For more information on vechical cost any one with a CAA/AAA membership
    can ask their local office for a CAA/AAA sponsored survey regarding the
    annual cost of operating a vechical and I think they have survey
    results for average company reimbursements.
    
    I have let my membership slide. Can someone out there ask for this
    information?
    
    WKG 

    re .15
    
    It is $7031/yr according to CAA. It is based on a new Ford Tempo with
    24,000km/yr milage and it assumes that you sell your vehicle at the end
    of 4 years.
    
    The highest cost to running a car in Canada is in Quebec at $7229/yr.
    The lowest is in Alberter at $6502/yr. Ontario the 2nd most expensive.
    
    No sure if car plan is different for employees form different
    provinces.
    
    
    David Cheng

    The monthly reimbersment varies between areas.
    
    
    Perhaps someone in the know could answer this...
    The new program starts 1-jul...but is this when they are going to
    start collecting the 6 month data  OR are they going to look at 
    the last 6 months of FY94 at that time ?
    
    
    Brian V
    

    explain your question a little more clearly I'm confused on what you
    are asking!

    on 1-JUL-1994 will our managers receive a report containing our last 
    6 months mileage, or will their first report be received on 1-JAN-1995
    
    tay ?
    
    Brian V
    
     

	They will have to start to count from July 1st 1994
	because the Km count will be done differently.
	Right now, Km are counted from the DEC Office to
	customer's site. Starting July 1st, Km will be
	calculated from employe's place to customer site.

	PBL

    I used to work for Burrough's, and their reimbursement scheme was a bit
    different.  In those days (pre-inflation) they had the equivalent to a
    plan C (no company cars), we were reimbursed 16� for the first 100
    miles per week and 5� per mile for each mile after.  Needless to say it
    was quite common to report 100 miles per week, but not too many people
    reported the rest unless it was grossly exagerated.
    
    Jean
    

    re. .20
    I tend to differ with your point "form the office to customer"
    If I have a service call scheduled for 8:00 am I start my meter as I
    drive out of the driveway, and record the total km when I return home
    if it is directly from site.
    
    Bill

    Re: .20
    
    I don't see a change. Policy has been the milage between your home and
    the Digital office was not counted but home direct to/from customer was
    eligable.   

	There is a difference between what was done in the "real"
	life and what the rules are.  Many times it also depends
	of your manager.  I can tell you that in DC in Ottawa
	the rules have been stricly applied for the last year.
	Here is an extract of the rule:

For eligibility for reimbursement from Digital as business mileage, allowable 
distances (kilometers) are only kilometers to and from the Digital office at 2 
Constellation Crescent and client sites, and between client sites.  Distances 
to and from the office and not allowable.  In the event that a consultant 
drives directly to a client site from home, the allowable business charge is 
the lesser of the distance from home to the client's site, and the distance 
from the Constellation Crescent office and the client's site.  For instance, 
if a consultant lives 50 kilometers from his home and an assignment at Mitel 
in Kanata and drives directly to that Kanata site, and the distance between 
the Digital Constellation office and Mitel is 30 kilometers, then the 
allowable business charge is 30 kilometers.  Conversely, if another consultant 
drives from his home in Kanata to the Mitel site and that distance is 5 
kilometers, then the allowable business mileage is 5 kilometers.


	Now the new rule says:


3.    BUSINESS KILOMETERS DEFINED

      In line with market practices, Digital will use the Revenue Canada 
      definition for business kilometres. Between home and customer site 
      is considered business mileage, between home and office is personal 
      mileage. 


	Whatever was the rule applied by your manager doesn't change the
	fact that (and that was the purpose of my reply) as the
	car plan folks wont calculate the business millage the same way,
	they will have to start to do their calculations in July so will
	all have another 3 or 6 months to legally/officially move to our
	cousins' house 200km from the office. 

	PBL

   Re: .23
    
�    I don't see a change. Policy has been the milage between your home and
�    the Digital office was not counted but home direct to/from customer was
�    eligable.   

	So Toronto does it differently ?
	I wonder if we'll have a different rule in every DEC office
	(if it's not betwwen different organization in the same office)

	So any other rules ?

    re .24
    
    
    So if you live 50 km from the office but you do a call in your
    town 2 km from your house what do you charge for mileage ?
    
    I put this question to management years ago and was told that I 
    should charge distance from my house.  My response was no way...
    you cant have it both ways and that from then on I would charge
    mileage from the office only. As most of my sites where closer
    to my house then the office it wasn't long before management told
    me to use the revenue Canada guildlines.
    
    
    Works for me.
    
    ; )
    
    Brian V
    

	I've been working at NTE for 6 months.
	NTE is 9 km from the office and I live 20 km from the office.

	To go from my place to NTE you almost passed in front of the
	office.  Anyhow, I could only charge 18km a day instead of
	the real 58.

	For 6 months that means a difference of 
		100 * 18 * 0.09 = $ 162.00
	        100 * 58 * 0.09 = $ 522.00
                                  --------
                                    360.00

	I wish I had it.

    It's worse than that. Since the numbers you report to Digital get
    filled in on the T2200 form you also lose your rightful tax deduction
    for those kilometers.
    

 

�    It's worse than that. Since the numbers you report to Digital get
�    filled in on the T2200 form you also lose your rightful tax deduction
�    for those kilometers.
    
	Not true...  as the directive also says:


"It appears that Revenue Canada's definition of business mileage may be 
different from the Digital policy definition above.  Distances directly from 
home to a client site may be entirely considered as business mileage.  You may 
want to consider this in working out car allowances for income tax purposes."

	Which means that what Revenue Canada considers business millage
	is not what DEC considers business millage.  So I always add
	200 days * 30 km = 6,000 km  to the km shown on my T2200 form.

PBL

    Rae Strathdee stated today in a meeting that the car plan B change is
    being rethought...at least as far as how it will be implemented. It
    appears that there were a number of people that did not like the way
    the change was going to be implemented. Two months notice isn't alot.
    Management does listen.
    Regards,
    Ron
    He who will get to keep his new Renegade a little longer 8-)

    truely good news for a friday !
    
    
    have a good weekend
    
    Brian V
    

    Just recieved a memo from Rae. 
    
    No real change to what was originally posted but he did say that the
    data collection would not start until 1-jul so this at least gives
    every one another 6 months notice.
    
    
    Brian V
    

    An interesting side note here is that in the U.S. people are being
    forced onto car plan A because car plan B is too expensive for Digital.
    
    Brian V
    

    Thats fine I'll take one "ONLY IF IT IS CHEAP"

    re. .33
    
    Could you please elaborate differences between US plan A and B and why
    is plan A cheapere to Digital.
    
    Dave Cheng

	Here you go
    
    
    
    Brian V
    
    
    
         <<< HUMANE::DISK$CONFERENCES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                        -< The Digital way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 2888.22                      Car Plan B???                         22 of 56
USHS01::HARDMAN "Massive action = Massive Results"  289 lines  18-AUG-1994 10:12
                             -< Car Plan Changes >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hot off the presses:
    
From:	NAME: U.S. TEAM                     
	FUNC: U.S. Communications             
	TEL:                                  <U.S. TEAM AT A1 at SALES at MRO>
Date:	18-Aug-1994
Posted-date: 18-Aug-1994
Precedence: 0
Subject: Fleet Plan Announcement                                                2
To:     See Below

 The U.S. Management Team recently initiated a review of our Business 
 Transportation Plan to ensure that our practices are competitive with those 
 of similar companies.  This review was conducted by a cross-organizational 
 team of individual contributors and managers from Sales, Services, Logistics, 
 Sales Operations, Finance, and Business Transportation.  The process included 
 external and internal benchmarks, sample surveys of our driver population, 
 vehicle life-cycle modeling, and a detailed assessment of business 
 transportation economics.
 
 Following are the major conclusions from this review:
 
   o   Digital's Plan A (company provided vehicle) is generally quite 
       competitive and approaching "best-in-class" with the exception of the 
       Personal Use Charge (PUC).

   o   Plan A PUC is benchmarked higher than the competition.

   o   Digital's costs for Plan B (employee-provided vehicle reimbursed by 
       the company) are higher than costs for similar plans at benchmarked 
       companies and higher than Digital's costs for Plan A.

   o   Employees prefer a more extensive selection of vehicles and are 
       willing to pay the premium for more expensive choices.

 As a result of these findings, the U.S. Management Team has reviewed and 
 endorsed the recommendation of the review team. Accordingly, the following 
 changes are hereby announced and will become effective October 3, 1994.
 
                         U.S. BUSINESS TRANSPORTATION
                             FLEET PLAN REVISIONS
 
   o   Plan A Personal Use Charge (PUC) is revised from $0.225 per personal 
       mile to a flat rate of $30 per week for a base vehicle, e.g., Ford 
       Taurus.  Benchmark studies indicate that most other companies 
       providing similar plans charge a flat rate that averages $30 per week. 
       The employee continues to be responsible for the cost of incidentals 
       (gas, oil, parking, tolls, etc.) associated with extraordinary 
       personal travel, e.g., vacation.

   o   A broader selection of vehicles will be made available to participants 
       under Plan A during the replacement process.  The preliminary list of 
       Plan A vehicles is expected to be available in October. 
       
   o   The flat personal use charge will vary according to the vehicle on the 
       selector list.  The base charge will be $30 per week, with more 
       expensive cars having a proportionately higher personal use charge.

   o   Vehicles placed on the selector list will vary from time to time, 
       based on basic equipment offerings and manufacturers' discounts to 
       Digital.


   o   Plan B in its current form is costing the company significantly more 
       than Plan A and equivalent plans of similar companies. Digital's drive 
       to profitability requires that we move swiftly to bring our Plan B 
       rate into line. Therefore, the Plan B rates will be revised for new 
       participants, to achieve cost parity with Plan A.  Current Plan B 
       participants will be "grandfathered" for a period of time to ease the 
       transition to either the new Plan B rates or Plan A.

       The new Plan B rate will be $210/month + $.08/Business mile.  This 
       flat rate will apply to all geographies across the U.S., because the 
       cost of setting and administering a geosensitive rate structure is 
       high and the validity of such rates is questionable. 

   o   Plan B "Grandfather" Policy:

       Plan B participants who enrolled in Plan B after January 1, 1994 will 
       be reimbursed at the new rate ($210/month + $.08/business mile) as 
       notified by Business Transportation at the time of enrollment.

       Plan B participants who enrolled in Plan B before January 1, 1994 will 
       be "grandfathered" (reimbursed at the rate in effect prior to this 
       announcement) as follows:

       	   Purchased vehicle:  purchase date + 24 months
       	   Leased vehicles:  lease date + 36 months
       
       Plan B participants who purchase, lease or renew a lease for a vehicle 
       after the date of this announcement (August 17, 1994) will be 
       reimbursed at the new Plan B rate ($210/month + $.08/business mile).

       To avail themselves of the "grandfather" period, eligible employees 
       must send a photocopy of either the Bill of Sale or Lease Agreement 
       (No Substitutes) to Business Transportation via internal mail (Paul 
       Coute @ MSO2-3/G20), external mail (Digital Equipment Corp, 111 
       Powdermill Road, Maynard, MA 01754, Attn: Business Transportation, or 
       FAX (DTN 223-9818 or 508-493-9818) by October 3, 1994.

   o   The minimum monthly business mileage criterion for eligibility will be 
       increased from 500 miles to 600 miles, consistent with the practices 
       of benchmarked companies. Exceptions must be approved by a Vice 
       President.

 The overall objective of our Business Transportation Plan is to provide 
 company-sponsored transportation to support the business travel requirements 
 of eligible U.S. Field employees that is safe, cost-effective, and presents 
 a positive and professional image to our customers and the community.  We, 
 the U.S. Management Team, feel that these changes are consistent with that 
 objective and with the best practices of similar companies.
 

 See the following Question and Answer section for further clarification.  
 Any additional questions regarding this policy should be directed to 
 Business Transportation, DTN 223-9500, OR Fleet Administration @MSO.
 
 
 
                            Questions and Answers
 
 
   Q1  Why is the Plan B "grandfather" period different for purchased vs 
       leased vehicles?

   A1  The economics between purchased and leased vehicles are different.  
       Typically, the point at which the residual value of the vehicle 
       exceeds the remaining debt is earlier in the case of a loan than a 
       lease.


   Q2  Why is the Plan B "grandfather" period 24 months from the purchase 
       date for a purchased vehicle, 36 months from the lease date for a 
       leased vehicle?

   A2  In the case of a typical consumer loan (48 month term), the point at 
       which the residual value of the vehicle exceeds the remaining debt is 
       between 20 and 24 months from the original purchase date.  

       The typical consumer lease has a term of 36 months and is closed end 
       (term, rate, and buy-out price are fixed).  This typical lease carries 
       substantial penalties for premature termination and, as a result, we 
       decided to protect the entire 36 month term.


   Q3  If I signed up for a loan with a longer term than 48 months, what is 
       the Plan B "grandfather" period?

   A3  You are still "grandfathered" for 24 months from the purchase date.  
       Loans with longer terms obviously carry lower payments.  If you signed 
       up for a 60 month loan, for example, your payments have been lower 
       than those of a 48 month loan, affording you a more advantageous cash 
       flow over the period that you were/will be reimbursed at the original 
       Plan B rate.

   Q4  If I signed up for a lease with a term of greater than 36 months, what 
       is the "grandfather" period?

   A4  You are still "grandfathered" for 36 months from the lease date.  
       Leases with longer terms obviously carry lower payments.  If you 
       signed up for a 60 month lease, for example, your payments have been 
       lower than those of a 36 month lease, affording you an advantageous 
       cash flow over the period that you were/will be reimbursed at the 
       original Plan B rate.


   Q5  If I purchased a vehicle but did not take out a loan, am I 
       "grandfathered" under Plan B?

   A5  If you enrolled in Plan B prior to January 1, 1994 and you do not 
       purchase, lease, or renew a lease after the date of this announcement 
       (August 17, 1994), you will be "grandfathered" for 24 months from the 
       purchase date.  It is not necessary to show proof of a loan.  You need 
       only provide a copy of the Bill of Sale for your vehicle in order to 
       be "grandfathered".

Distribution:
This message was delivered to you utilizing the Readers Choice delivery 
services.  You received this message because you are part of the U.S. 
organization.  If you have questions regarding this message, please contact 
the author of the memo.






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