Conference kaosws::canada

    Well, if you don't like Lucien's approach, then there must be something
    good about it. I'll have to take a closer look to find out what it is.

    Glenn

    Bouchard is in Ottawa, he says, to promote the interests of Quebec;
    really to try to discredit the federal system in every way he can and
    thus promote Quebec independence.  He doesn't care how the things he
    says sound elsewhere in the country.  The important question, and the
    only one he cares about, is:  how are his statements received in
    Quebec?
    
    -Stephen

    CTHU26::S_BURRIDGE
    
     Interesting point. I suppose it depends on how faithful the media is
    in representing the facts. If they only parrot what he says there is no
    doubt he will be well recieved, if they present the full picture, there
    is a chance that he will be exposed as the "spin doctor" that he is. I
    have about as much faith in the Quebec media as I do in Lucien himself.
    I expect the oppressed masses of Quebec will devour this serving of
    self pity with relish, regardless of the reality of the situation.
    
    							Derek.

Derek,

Please remember as you read on that I despise Lucien and I think he is a big 
joke.  I wish we had a more credible opposition leader and Manning is not one 
of them.  Hence:

-  If Lucien didn't defend the rights of the French, then who would?  As an
   opposition party, it's their jobs to question almost anything that the    
   government does.  I just wish he looked beyond the borders of Quebec when 
   he does his opposition thing.

-  If Preston Manning was the opposition party leader, would he defend the
   case of the only French military college around?  I guarantee you he
   wouldn't.

-  Now, if we had a more credible party in the opposition seat, such as
   the conservatives or the NDP, then I know that they would defend the
   French military college as they would defend the rights of all other
   Canadians beyond the borders of Quebec, after that last budget.

/Mario

    Maio:
    
     Why does the closure of the college in Quebec become a matter of
    "defending" ? The government decided to keep one (1) college. They
    closed the one in BC (English only I presume), and the one in Quebec
    (French only I presume) and keep one centrally located between Montreal
    and Toronto. Equally accessible to both linguistic groups. If they had
    kept the one in BC, and Kingston, and dropped the one in Quebec I could
    see a problem. As it is, the government took a reasonable action, and
    tried to accomodate as best they could, considering the fiscal
    situation. In this light, Lucien's complaining seems self serving, and
    only used to stir up the "paranoia" Quebecers seem to feel. I, as a
    non-Quebecer am saying that since he only has one side to every issue,
    his input is not valid. Even if he thought the closure was good, he
    would not say it. Basically, if you know what he is going to say,
    before he says it, and it always has the same point of view, he is a
    waste of space on the hill. I already know Quebec wants it's cake and
    eat it too, I don't need a seperatist to tell me that.
    
    							Derek.

    
    
        Derek, I couldn't agree with you more.  Bouchard began his 
    campaiging as a Separatist, and he will go down as a Separatist!
    These recent statements by him are just a futile attempt to stir
    up some separtist feelings in all Qu�becers.
        
        This threat of separation has been going on since the early days
    of R�n� Leveques.  We had a referendum then, and we just had one 
    a couple years ago.  I tired of the whining which is costing us
    taxpayers an exhuberant amount of money each year.  
    
        Qu�bec is going NOWHERE as far as separation is concerned!  
    Qu�bec knows it, and the rest of Canada knows it!  
    
        Slovakia separated from Czechoslovakia and now they want back 
    in with the Czech Republic.  Nobody wants to see a repeat of this!
    
    Blair

    No room for the likes of Bouchard in any Parliamentary System.
    Only in Canada would you see a disgraceful side show such as
    the one we have with the BLOC being second in command.  At least
    the reform party doesn't want to break the country up.  Maybe when
    Lucien goes down to speak in the States he will get the message
    that what he wants is not what the Americans want.  I suspect
    his reception will be cool, to say the least.
    

    One problem of the current situation is that there is no credible
    opposition on issues affecting Quebec.  People outside Quebec are not
    inclined to give any credence to Bouchard.  Chantal Hebert's column in
    the Citizen yesterday made an interesting case against the closing of
    the St. Jean military college.  There's nobody in Parliament from
    Quebec with the credibility to make such a case.
    
    -Stephen
    

Re: .6 
 
 
>>        Qu�bec is going NOWHERE as far as separation is concerned!
>>    Qu�bec knows it, and the rest of Canada knows it!
 
	Of course you meant: Qu�bec *separatists* are going NOWHERE as far
	as seperation is concerned!  Qu�bec separatists know it and the rest
	of Canada knows it!

/Mario

    CTHU26::S_BURRIDGE
    
    >>Chantal Hebert's column in the Citizen yesterday made an interesting
    >>case against the closing of the St. Jean military college
    
    
     Care to elaborate ?
    
    							Derek.
    

    Basically, that it would be serious blow to bilingualism in the forces. 
    Apparently frncophone cadets were treated pretty roughly at RMC in the
    50s, before the St. Jean college was created.
    
    I also heard a commentary on the radio the other day that said the gov.
    was still being too generous to Quebec in defence spending --
    apparently the recruits who used to go to Cornwallis, now closed, will
    go to St. Jean instead, so that its population will actually increase. 
    Also, a coastal defence HQ is being built in Quebec City, a river
    port that is closed half the year by ice.  This comentator was the
    editor of "Esprit de Corps" magazine, who I believe supports Reform.
    
    A study was done under the Tories, completed last summer, that
    recommended that St. Jean and Royal Roads be kept open.  The Reform MP
    for the riding that includes Royal Roads tried to get it released
    before the budget, unsuccessfully.
    
    So there are arguments to be made against these closures, but no
    credible federalist opposition to make them, at least as regards
    Quebec.

    Well, I've just recently compared Lucien to a snooker player and you
    should all be glad to know that Lucien appears to be a virile athlete.
    Perhaps he should do a few laps on Meech Lake this summer to garner
    support in Quebec for separation. It could be a stroke of genius.


    Wooops! Wait a minute, I just realised I was comparing Lucien to my
    jockey photos.... Well, that explains it. Okay. Sorry folks, I have
    some more research to do. Once I find the right photos I'll let you
    know how Lucien does.

    Glenn

    CTHU26::S_BURRIDGE
    
     As I suspected, a case made from 30+ year old facts.
    
     A Reform party member trying to quash a spending cut ? Didn't take
    long to get into the NIMBY syndrome did it ? Reform is as big a joke as
    the Bloc, they just have to speak up more to prove it.
    
    							Derek.

    Don't dimiss Hebert's argument on the basis of my very brief summary of
    her main point.

    Re: .9
    
    >>     Of course you meant:  Qu�bec *separatists* are going NOWHERE as
    >>     far as separation is concerned!
    
    
           Mario....
    Qu�bec, the province and all the population it contains (separatists
    as well as non separatists) is going NOWHERE.  Qu�bec will NEVER leave
    Canada period.  
    
           If I'm wrong and it comes down to (heaven forbid) another
    referendum which ends up in Qu�bec separating, you can bet your bottom
    dollar Qu�bec will want back in again!
    
           That's the way I see it and that's the way the majority of
    all Canadians see it.  Plain and Simple.
    
    Blair

>>    Qu�bec, the province and all the population it contains (separatists
>>    as well as non separatists) is going NOWHERE.  Qu�bec will NEVER leave
>>    Canada period.

If you agree that Quebec will never seperate then you agree that Quebec 
separatists who happen to be the minority, are going NOWHERE and federalists
like me are going SOMEWHERE.  I don't think it's fair for you to say that all 
Quebeckers are going nowhere.

/Mario

    
    Of course, RMC has a valuing differences program now, so even
    if you are gay, french and of say, somalian extraction, you should
    not fear anything as you walk the streets of Kingston in your cadet
    uniform (otherwise known as the monkey suit).
    
    Suuure...
    
    Pat

    I think they should close ALL the military colleges and get rid of an
    expensive useless army, navy and air force.
    
    Jean
    
    PS the comments from the press say that french proportion in the armed
    forces went UP (from less than 6% to more than 20%) after Saint-Jean
    was opened.

    I lived in kingston for some time during the 80's and yes the RMC
    Cadets do walk around in their monkey suits always in a group.
    They never have problems on the street, but they have gotten
    into trouble in some bars.  The abuse builds character.  It's
    a test to see whether they take their career seriously or not.
    Overall the armed forces and the civilian population of Kingston
    co-habitate rather well although I understand they will be
    closing CFB Kingston.  Am I correct about that one?
    

    The answer from one of the ministers after the closing was announced;
    "We will spend $50,000,000 to promote the use of french in Kingston to
    make the french speaking students more confortable".  And I tought we
    were going to SAVE money by closing those schools, how silly of me.
    
    Jean

    KAOFS::J_DESROSIERS
    
    "We will spend $50,000,000 to promote the use of french in Kingston to
        make the french speaking students more confortable"
    
     So you are saying leave Kingston alone ? Let the Francophone students
    learn a little English ? Wanna bet on the inter-governmental language
    used by NATO ? The UN ? Is it going to kill them to learn a little of a
    language that just might save their life in a combat zone ?
    
    
    							Derek.

    
    
    	The ROC welcomes the fact that we spending tax dollars on our
    Brother in H'arms.

    Re Derek,
    
    No I am saying if we are going to close a military college in Qu�bec to
    SAVE money, we should not spend $50 millions to pretend it never
    happened.  My solution would be to get rid of ALL military spending in
    Canada (abolish ALL armed forces).  To those people saying we NEED an
    army, just look at Costa-Rica, they have NO army (and have not had one
    for close to 100 years), armies are unconstitutional since 1948 and
    Costa-Rica is wedged in between Panama and Nicaragua, so far they have
    not been invaded by their belliquous neighbors.
    
    Jean
    
    PS Even the United Staters don't need an army to invade us, all their
    citicens have guns, fortunately, they can't stand the cold.
    

	re .23

>    PS Even the United Staters don't need an army to invade us, all their
>    citicens have guns, fortunately, they can't stand the cold.

	Ahem, Jean. One of the lessons of the war of 1812 was that militias
	were inadequate for prosecuting a war. The logical consequence of
	the U.S. having a standing army should have been the repeal of the
	second amendment to their constitution (the one that talks about
	militias being important). :-)

	Tony

    Well, Lucy has been up to his tricks again. He has gone to an "off the
    record" meeting, said what he felt, and when it got leaked, called it
    all lies. Saying BC would be annexed by the states, Bloc MP's would all
    resign if the referendum was lost,  obstruction in parliment if Canada
    tried to stop seperation...
    
      In his own words "Am I crazy, Am I crazy ? Do I look Crazy ?"
    
     In my own words "YES"
    
    							Derek.

    "canadians" all say they would not let Qu�bec break up Canada, yet for
    a few dollars, they would join the US without batting an eyelash, true
    patriots if you ask me.  Now just think how the US would laugh if they
    could pick up all these territorries for peanuts.
    
    Jean
    

    I disagree, in fact I remember a poll taken not long ago in each
    province concerning joining the United States, and Quebecers were the
    ones most for it. Seems they like the U.S. a lot. I would like to see
    such a poll taken again to see if things have changed.

    Also in the early 1970's, the U.S. Government did a study on Canada to
    determine what parts of it would be worth annexing, and the only
    province they would be interested in was British Columbia because of
    the link to Alaska and the pipelines.

    Glenn

    KAOFS::J_DESROSIERS
    
    1. The word is Canadians, not quotes, with a capital letter at the front.
    2. As usuall you attribute Quebec charactoristics (love affair with the
       US) to the rest of Canada.
    3. Maybe you should not listen to your seperatist propoganda masters,
       it makes you look as deceitful as they are (or badly misinformed
       your choice)
    4. Most people respect the right of self determination, what most
       people don't respect is periodic blackmail based on that right.
    
    
    	Come on Jean, please tell us more about how the ROC thinks, feels,
    and will act in the future. I am always amazed at how clearly the
    seperatists see things (like the cake walk to sovereignty) and how the
    federalists are always confused (like international law requires Quebec
    to get permission to seperate). 
    
    							Derek.

    

    [Start whining music here!]
    Jean is not ONE OF US! He can't understand us. You got to be one of US
    to understand what we've been going through. 

    [End Whining music here, begin Oh Canada, English Version as sung by
    the WWII vets, quickly move on to God Save the King including the
    "We kicked some butt on DE Plains didn't we?" chant in the background.]

    Why is Bouchard even mentioned in this notesfile.  He is a traitor
    to Canada and himself.  I foresee a civil war not too far away if 
    the likes of Bouchard and Parizeau are allowed to stand on their
    feet with any following much longer.  

    Pulleeease...Civil war....
    
    This is Canada !! If Q decides to separate there will be a couple
    of years worth of negotiating to determine their share of the debt,
    and the actual land boundaries, but no one is willing to lose their
    life over it. If there was Lucy would have had a bullet thru his head.
    National unity Texas style.
    
    
    Brian V
    
    
    

    Predicting civil war may be going a little too far given the fact
    we are talking about Canadians here.
    However, the part about Lucy in the sky getting a lead lobotomy
    doesn't sound so bad.
    People of Quebec...please get rid of this clown and Papa Parizeau
    as quick as you can.  We can then take care of Presto " The Magician "
    Manning.
     Sean
    

    Since all those politicians are in Ottawa (closer for you than me), you
    should go buy an uzi and do a number on them and save the country from
    both those $%?&* french kebeckers and those right wing westerners.
    
    John
    

	
	John, ya got a bee in your bonnet? Or have you been taking
	lessons from Glen(n).

    Jean,
    
     If you read carefully, you will notice YOU are the only one useing the
    term "$%?&* french kebeckers". It would serve the seperatists purpose if
    we did hate french Quebecers.
    
     The sad truth (for seperatists) is that we only hate self serving
    seperatists.
    
     As a matter of interest, what part of the political spectrum does the
    BQ represent ? Left ? Right ? Center ? Interesting "political party"
    that only has one plank in it's platform.
    
     "French Quebecers above all else"
    
    							Derek.

    not to make too much fun of that incident, but didn't Coporal Lortie
    used a made in Canada gun. you are suggesting the use of a
    foreign made weapon to do a strickly Canadian deed.
    
    Come on, we want to talk about economics and jobs. :-) :-)
    That will save the country. Buy Canadian, or American with an assemble
    in Canada (CSA approved) sticker.
    
    richard

    No, I'm not sick, I have seen the light....english forever, god save
    the Queen (and her duly appointed representative and all the court
    jesters).  I mean it, talk to anyone in the universe and the language
    of choice IS english (ref: star trek, battlestar galactica, star
    wars...) from now on I will never enter another note in a language
    other than the one understood by the whole universe.
    
    John (see I have even translated my name just to prove how sincere I
    am)
    
    Re Richard, I am sorry I even mentionned a foreign weapon, but
    machine-gun was too long to spell.  I am sure a true patriot and a
    proud Canadian would never THINK of using a non-union non-Canadian
    rifle or bullets, it just wouldn't be right.
    
    I have even started a campaign to stop any further digging of the grand
    canal on Quebec (see no accent on the "e") soil since we are not deserving
    of such a grand scheme.
    

    Dear Jean,

    	I am grievously vexed to learn of the prevailing attitudes to the
    Grand Canal. I thought by now people would begin to understand the
    great benefit of the Grand Canal and how it has been the glue that has
    held us all together.

    I think I'm going to cry...

    <snif>

    Glenn

Jean,

Names are not, never, no way translated if at all possible.  And it is still
not pronounced like the blue denim trousers either.  Your name is or should
be sacrosanct.  No one, should ever translate your name.

Your parents called you Jean. They did not call you John, nor Gene.

Stuart (not Stu or Stew or Stewart)

    Aw come on Stu, stop pulling Johnny Baby's leg!
    
    ;-)