Conference kaosws::canada

    
     I agree with your prophecy, Derek. I am convinced the BQ party
    is the absolute worst party to be sharing power with, since in my
    eyes they are simply a mouthpiece for Quebec Separatist forces.
    I can't beleive anybody in the ROC would vote for this party
    and therefore this would prove how separatist their intentions
    are.
     Let's not forget they are a fully supported party of the Parti
    Quebecois with its' hidden agenda of full separation, and any
    power brokering would include the PQ platform of nothing but
    full separation.
    
    Unfortunately, with democracy as it stands, we must swallow the bitter
    pill of the BQ party and hope they just disappear, but in reality
    they will no doubt be a festering sore on Canadian federalist policies.
    As is noted many times, Quebec receives a proportionately larger
    share of tax dollars than it provides to federal coffers, and
    Quebec has almost free reign on any federal programs, the choice to
    opt out and receive compensation in lieu of.
     One can only deduce that there is one item left that they so dearly
    want, and that is full separation within the federal trading block.
    
    When you ask if a vote for the BQ is a wasted vote, in my opinion
    since they don't seem to have any representation in the ROC
    this is a Quebec issue which can be very disruptive federally
    if the win a large block of seats. 
    Therefore , since I cannot speak for any Quebeckers, I do think
    it is in their best interest to not vote for this fringe party
    if their wish is to remain in a united Canada.
     If any Quebecker thinks that they might even receive more 
    goodies from the Federal Govnmt. with the BQ in power, I think they
    are sadly mistaken. This party will only expedite the ROC
    disgust with Quebec leaning federal policies.
    
    I have faith in the majority of Quebeckers, I think that they
    as voting day approaches, will see through this separatist
    facade of the BQ , and vote with their hearts.
    

    It is not BQ.
    It is BG (Barti Gu�becois).
    I have a bad gold.

    Every vote is a statement, even a spoiled ballot.  Either you truly 
    believe in a candidate and the platform or you were sucked in by the 
    crap and false promises flung at you during an election.  
    
    We deserve who we elect.  
    
    If it means anything, the BQ appears the most honest of all the parties
    since the Rhino's arn't running this year.
    
    

    >>BQ appears the most honest of all the parties
    
     you mean like when they say Quebec pays more into Canada than it gets
    out? When pressed they change it to "we don't get enough of the right
    kind of money ". Which translates into "if you don't count social
    spending", which Quebec is the largest recipiant of. These guys can't
    be trusted. Their agenda is the breakup of Canada, and they have no
    business going to Ottawa to blackmail the ROC.
    
    
    							Derek.

    Bouchard is addressing the Loyalist bunch in Toronto today to tell
    English Canada they had better get used to the idea of Quebec
    separation.
    
    I don't think they have any hidden agenda regarding the breakup of
    Canada.
    
    I agree Quebec gets the lion's share of social assistance, so if a
    breakup occurs, they should get the lion's share of the National debt.
    
    That debate would be interesting!
    
    The other interesting debate would be what part of Quebec is Quebec? 
    The Native people made it plain they don't want to leave Canada and
    they control a majority of the lands in Northern Quebec.
    
    There is one thing for sure, the BQ ain't going away cause English
    Canada don't like 'em!
    
    Bill

    O.K. a bit of comedy.  Remember: don't be offended, it's just a joke...
    
    Last year I saw a lot of bumper stickers that said "My Canada includes
    Quebec".  Well, at the Ottawa Home Show this weekend, was in the
    washroom, reading grafitti, and saw "My Canada CONTROLS Quebec".
    
    :-)  Otto.

    re -.1 That's NO joke!  
    
    Voting for the Bloc may have some benefits, Qu�bec will be further cut
    off from federal programs and this will have the net effect of
    advancing separation because it will be even more obvious that "ths
    rest of Canada" does indeed control Qu�bec.
    
    Jean (not offended)
    

    >>even more obvious that "ths rest of Canada" does indeed control Qu�bec.
    
    Yeah, like all those Prime Ministers that "the rest of Canada" has been
    sending to Ottawa over the last 30 years. If Quebec does get cut off from
    federal programs, it could also lead the the average Quebecer waking up to
    the fact that the rest of Canada has been contributing in a big way to the
    quality of life in Quebec. This in turn could lead to a more federalist
    stance.
    
    							Derek.

    re .7
    
    What federal programs has Quebec been cut off from?  Statement sounds
    good, where's the meat?
    
    Quebec over the years has been a drain on Federal funding with a
    disproportionate amount of federal business being awarded to pacify the
    province or through patronage.
    
    Bill

    

    	Well, for starters,  they haven't sent in any FEDERAL troops
    since that FLQ thingy happened way back then. Also Quebec has been
    cut off from all those federal construction workers from working within
    the boarders. To top it off, the Hibernia project has never gotten a
    foothold  in Hull Quebec,  our nations capital.

    re:.10
    
    Naw, we sent the federalles to OKA didn't we.  Boosted tourism in
    Quebec that year.  An, why would we want Hybernia oil in the nations' 
    capital when we have an abundance of natural gas and heated air?  An,
    don't use Ontario bricks for a Quebec sidewalk!
    
    

    
    
    	T'eestee, aren't we!

    Look trough old notes, I have put in many examples.  Perhaps the best
    one is the way unemployment insurance is spent not only in Qu�bec, but
    in the maritimes and out west too.  Most provinces get federal funding
    for social programs which does nothing to boost the local economy or to
    raise the expertise levels of the unemployed workers, at the same time
    federal monies are spent on research and development in Ontario.
    
    Jean
    

    >>spent on research and development in Ontario
    
    Yeah, like all those Canadian Space Agency jobes they moved from Ottawa
    to Montreal. Get real Jean, Quebec is in no way finacially
    disadvantaged by it's association with Canada. The problem for people
    like you, (ie. seperatists) is that the emotional arguments are not
    enough, so you have to try to make an economic argument where none
    exists. I have heard many a Quebecer say "Quebec will never seperate,
    it would be bad for the economy". If this is true, and Quebecers will
    vote with their wallets, the only hope the seperatists have is to try
    to confuse the issue enough to make it appear there would be an
    economic benifit to seperation. Since there is none, maybe Quebec will
    not seperate. 
    
    							Derek.

    Look at all the research centers in Ottawa, do you see the same number
    in Hull?  Money sent here from the feds is used mainly for UI and
    medical care, same in the maritimes, not what you would call real help
    in development.
    
    Jean

    Hull would be even more of a two bit town if it had to rely on Quebec
    City for money. I suppose the federal government figures the thousands
    of civil service jobs, and the tax base that goes with them is enough
    for Hull. But like a true seperatist, it is never enough for you. I
    believe Mr. Trudeau had it correct when he called it never ending
    blackmail.
    
     Also, have you heard the PQ/BQ are promising everyone in the Hull area
    that they will still have jobs if Quebec seperates ? This is true, if
    they choose to move to Ontario. The economics of seperation are
    prohibitive. Must be tough to swallow for the seperatists that their
    Quebec brothers and sisters are more concerned with paying for food
    and shelter rather than the alleged threat to their culture.
    
     Reality stikes home !!!

    You seem to think Ottawa's size is directly related to the taxes paid
    by it's citizens, not true, we ALL contribute and even if you don't
    like it, I own a part of it, as I own a part of ALL federal
    institutions (even the gold reserves if we still have any).  Troughout
    the years of confederation, Qu�bec has paid it's share.
    
    Jean
    

	RE. -1

	Yup, Quebec has paid it's share and it has also received it's share.
	So if it decides to leave confederation it can take it's share of
	the gold reserves (if there is a reserve left) as well as it's share
	of the deficit. Sometimes I think Quebec's motto should be "The 
	squeaky wheel get's the grease."

	Ben

    
    
    	Ben,
    
    	I think you are being *almost* politically correct with the
    fair share attitude. Quebec has been a haveNOT province for a while
    now.
    	And the motto is "FiretrUCK the rest, we are the best!" 

    Of course the people in Hull would have jobs in 'Canada'.  This area
    knows what side it's bread is buttered on.  My predication is that it
    will still be part of 'Canada'.  
    
    Quebec will end up being a corridor from East Montreal to the Labrador
    border to the Lac St Jean district.  The rest is controlled by the
    native population who have stated they want no part of seperatism.
    
    The province of Quebec is a geographic entity not an ethnic entity.  
    
    B/PQ land may be the size of PEI!  
    
    With 200M English speaking south and 20 M English speaking west (and a
    few 100K east) my cerial box won't be bilingulal for long.
    
    Intersting times!

    A question kind of came up about the BQ.
    
    If Lucien Bouchard et all get elected don't they have to swear
    allegance to Canada (and the Queen) prior to being MP's in the 
    House of Commons.
    
    How can they do that if their platform is the break-up of Canada?
    
    Of course, who is a credible politician these days anyways.  
                                                                     

    >>If Lucien Bouchard et all get elected don't they have to swear
    >>allegance to Canada (and the Queen) prior to being MP's in the
    >>House of Commons.
    
     They will lie. Not the first/last time either.
    
    							Derek.

    One man's opionion on "wasted votes" -
    
    The only two parties that have even a hope of forming a government are
    the Conservatives or the Liberals.  While voting for the other parties
    might "feel good" or "send a message", you still have to live with
    whoever gets elected for 5 (perhaps less...) years and I don't think
    anyone really wants to see 5 nearly equally strength parties.
    
    The absolute best condition (again, IMHO) would be a Liberal lead
    minority government, backup up by the Reform (my preference) or the NDP. 
    I can't believe any CANADIAN would want to see the BQ (and they are
    traitors!) hold the balance of power.  Unfortunately, I don't know to
    orchestrate or gaurantee a minority government.  So...
                                             
    I really believe, in the end, it comes down to voting Conservative or
    Liberal - anything else is just wishful thinking or a wasted vote.
    
    Lockyer, who is enjoying Kim's campaign more and more.
                                                                        

    My fifty cents worth on our party leaders.
    
    Kim Campbell has shown a total disrespect for the Canadian voter -
    we're not smart enough to understand politics - yeah right, Can you
    spell unemployed Kim ?
    
    Chretian is still trying to ride the Trudeaumania wave of years ago.
    Wake up Jean, you missed about twenty years somewhere. 
    
    McLaughlin - Ontario has a lot of votes, and guess what - Bob Rae is
    still Premier of Ontario - and he's NDP. Audrey might get a message
    that is really intended for Bob - we don't like you.
     
    Bouchard only represents the interests of Quebec and is totally honest 
    about that. May hold the balance of power in Parliament
    while representing only 1/4 of the Canandian population and only one 
    province. I'm sure he'll collect his pay from the ROC while trying to 
    disolve the country. 
    
    Manning, is still essentially a regional party leader for the west.
    Reform may pass the NDP as Canada's third party.
    Cannot possibly obtain enough votes from the rest of Canada to become
    P.M. However, like the BQ, the Reform may also gain enough votes from
    disgruntled Canadians to hold the balance of power in a minority
    government.
     
    Hurtig - he's too interested in getting on the TV debate.
    
    I agree with - .1    we're headed for a minority government with either 
    the Reform of the BQ holding the balance of power. This will make
    governing this country very difficult.
    
    My vote goes to
    
    
    Terry

>>Re:  Thinking that anything but a Liberal or PC vote is a wasted vote.

I don't think that's true.  In some ridings the NDP may be ahead in the polls 
and may end up winning at least some seats.  The vote of the people voting 
NDP in those ridings is certainly not wasted because they end up getting who 
they want in parliement.  Same holds true for BQ and Reform.

To say that anything but a Liberal or PC vote is a wasted vote is far from 
the truth.  It's like saying, only vote for the party you think is going to 
win.

/Mario

    If Qu�bec is such a burden on the ROC, and we want to separate, it
    seems we have a common accord, why then are we being bombarded by the
    liberals and the conservatives to put THEM in power?
    
    Voting BQ makes perfect sense, it is the equivalent of electing your
    local representative whom you know and trust instead of voting for the
    leader of the party while your local rep. picks his nose at your
    expense.  If the bloc holds the balance of power, it will be an
    interesting 4 years to come, we may even get the Grand Canal under way
    (Canada's version of the information superhighway).
    
    Jean
    

>    If Qu�bec is such a burden on the ROC, and we want to separate, it
>    seems we have a common accord, why then are we being bombarded by the
>    liberals and the conservatives to put THEM in power?

Because there is more to Canada than simply finances ...
    
>    Voting BQ makes perfect sense, it is the equivalent of electing your
>    local representative whom you know and trust instead of voting for the
>    leader of the party while your local rep. picks his nose at your
>    expense.  If the bloc holds the balance of power, it will be an
>    interesting 4 years to come, we may even get the Grand Canal under way
>    (Canada's version of the information superhighway).

But it is not the same ... because the Bloc will vote as a block ... it
is just another party.  There is no such thing as free representation in
our parliamentary democracy.  You elect a representative, but that MP
(or MPP or MLA or whatever you want to call them) is not your representative
in government, but rather their party's representative to you.

More and more I am coming to the conclusion that the concepts of
parliamentary democracy and party political system are incompatible.

Stuart

    >>If Qu�bec is such a burden on the ROC, and we want to separate, it
    >>seems we have a common accord.
    
     Small problem, only 40% of Quebecers say they want to seperate. If put to
    a real vote, it would even be smaller. Don't let the desires of your
    fellow Quebecers get in your way though, that would be democracy. When
    your trying to destroy a country the rest of the world look at in envy
    (most of the rest anyway) you can't let a little thing like the will of
    the people get in your way. After all, you have a culture to protect.
    
    Or was that last week, and this week your defending the economy ?
    
    							Derek.

    re:26
    
    What Grand Canal?
    
    The parts of Quebec that want to seperate only have water on one side! 
    Plan on digging ditches?
    
    As far as an information highway, being surrounded by 300M English
    speaking people....
    
    Instead of the Bloc holding power, imagine the Reform holding power. 
    That would be a turn of events.
    
    If the Bloc holds power, it will be ignored by the leading minority
    party because the Bloc can't afford to pay for another election so soon.
    If they do force it, then the gloves would really be off! 
    
    Interesting Times!

    What do you mean "What Grand Canal" ?
    
    Are you a Canadian?
    
    Glenn

    re. 30
    
    Have you tested the quality of the liquid in the Love Canal?
    
    Am I a Canadian?  How do you define Canadian, resident, reformist,
    seperatist .......or the complacent majority?

    As R�al Caouette said "vous avez essay� les rouges, vous avez essay�
    les bleus, dehors les chiens pas de m�dailles" or to put it another
    way, we have nothing to lose by voting BQ!
    
    Go ahead, vote the liberals in, THEY gave you the deficit.
    Go ahead, vote the conservatives in, THEY did nothing to stop it.
    
    Consider an insurance company, the premiums cover the claims +
    administration.  The head office is in Ontario.  They say to us "what
    are you complaining about?  we pay all your claims! you get as much as
    you put in!"  Who gets the building belonging to the company? who gets
    the big salaries?  That's the way it is with the federal governement,
    that's why Hull is such a dump versus Ottawa.
    
    And what do you mean "water on one side only"?????  most of the
    province de Qu�bec is technicaly an island.
    
    
    
    Jean
    

    >>They say to us "what are you complaining about? you get as much as
    >>you put in!
    
     No, we say to you "You get MORE than you put in".
    
     Oh yeah, The Block have a clear plan to reduce the deficit, right.
    Take Quebec out of Canada, and leave Canadians paying Quebec's share of
    the debt. Typical.
    
    
    							Derek.

    What I mean Jean is Quebec is a geographic entity not an ethnic entity.
    And, it may be presumptuous of Quebec to anticipate that if separation
    does occur that they would be entitled to the geographic entity of what
    is known as the 'Province of Quebec'.
    
    The ethnic area of Quebec is not an island and has no liquid
    boundaries.
    
    

    
    
    	A vote for the Bloc, is a vote for the PSAC !

    C'est quoi �a le PSAC??????
    
    Jean
    

Public Service Alliance Commision.

    Public Service Alliance of Canada (I was a member from '75 to '79)
    
    the largest union for Federal Government civil servants...

    One of the ways to say headache in french:
    
    Mal de bloc!
    
    Jean