Conference kaosws::canada

    Did you know that senators get an "extra" $100 when they ARE present,
    just to entice them to attend sessions.  As far as I know, they don't
    have to "be there" to get their salary.
    
    Jean
    

    It always make me ill to see when people have to be given "incentive"
    to do their job. I also doubt that the money spent on the Senate is
    your reason for being a s�paratiste, because so much govenment money is
    spent in Quebec.
    
    
    							Derek

Let's me get dragged into this one yet again.  Garry, stay out of this.

Re:  Govt' money being spent in Quebec.

What government money?  Federal?  Provincial?  Anymore than any other province?

/Mario

    For example, the Federal government gives in transfer payments alone
    30$ per man/woman/child, more than Quebec contributes to the Canadian 
    government. Why do you think it is considered a "have not" province ?
    
    You don't want to get into individual examples of "pork" do you ?
    (CF18, Space Agency....)
    
    							Derek

    Mario, this ones all yours!
    
    Garry

According to last weekend's Ottawa Citizen (I have a source for MY information)
the amount is $23.07 average per $100.00 taxes paid out.  Broken down by
province, the maritime provinces are all up there, headed by Nfld ($40.00)
Quebec is only slightly above average at about $24.00.

Re: $30.00 per man/woman/child more that is paid out.  Is Quebec the top 
province in that area?  If not which one is?

/Mario

    The point (remember that) I was trying to make is that if Federal spending
    were to be a factor in the decision to be a seperatist, it would be in
    FAVOUR of being a Canadian, because Quebec gets more money out than they
    put in.
    
    As for who is the worst ? 
    Who cares, that is not the issue.
    
    							Derek.

>   The point (remember that) I was trying to make is that if Federal spending
>   were to be a factor in the decision to be a seperatist, it would be in
>   FAVOUR of being a Canadian, because Quebec gets more money out than they
>   put in.
    
    If Federal spending were to be a factor in the decision to be a
    separatist, I would expect there to be alot of separatists in the 
    Rest of Canada, anxious to move a "have not" province out of the
    federation.
    
    Separation is a complex issue, with many arguments for and against.
    Federal spending is but one of many facets to be considered.
    
    Normand                                                    

    >>federal spending is just one variable...
    
     I never said it wasn't.
    
    						Derek

    Last update is; they are being recalled to vote again on this issue.
    
    Did all of you know, that they do not pay for their travel arrangements
    on planes or trains.  They do not pay for postal services or use of
    telephone.  
    
    The net result of sending them back to Ottawa to vote on the issue may
    end up costing US ALL more than $6000.  No wonder we are in the hole.
    
    Jean
    
    PS As to spending in Qu�bec, why do I pay for a wheat board? why do I
    subsidize western farmers to ship their grain across Canada? why do I
    pay for fisheries and ocean Canada?  and Hibernia and the tar sands and
    to create Nunavut....  why is Ottawa so much bigger than Hull? (I think
    on this last one it MUST be because you get more from your money in
    Ontario ;-).
    
    

    Oh, I forgot to mention that when the senators travel, they can take
    their spouses along, as well as their children, their parents (who must
    be at least 250 years old) their grand-children, in-laws...
    
    Jean
    

    BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!!!!!!!
    
     Sorry Jean, Quebec gets more money from the Federal Gov, than it puts
    in. So all of your examples still don't add up to the amount of money
    "transfered" to Quebec.
    
    							Derek.

Yet another Quebec-bashing note...

/Mario

    Well Mario, if SOME people would leave their seperatist views out of a
    non-Quebec note, maybe I wouldn't have to point out the error in their
    logic. I started this string, without any reference to Quebec, and
    would have been just as happy if it never came up. I get sick of
    hearing about it too, but that does not mean I'll just sit and let
    people say whatever their seperatist agenda dictates without rebuttal.
    
    								Derek

    re. -1 (Derek's note)
    Why does hearing about Quebec make you get sick ?
    Is not that a bit extreme, letting negative feelings impact you
    physical well being. Have you tried Tai-chi, or maybe some form of
    Hata-Yoga ?
    
    Peace & Love! (Paix et Amour !)

Derek,

You actually brought up the Quebec issue first in .2

/Mario

    Mario,
    
    To be fair (to Derek), I think Quebec was brought up first by Jean D.
    in .1, even if it was indirect (separatist->Quebec).
    
    But then, I'm not participating in this conversation...
    
    Lockyer

    Thank you Gary. I'm glad someone reads the titles. Some of my best
    lines are in them.
    
    							Derek

    >>Why does hearing about Quebec make you get sick ?
    
    	I'd reply, but I wouldn't want to turn this Senate bashing note
    into a Quebec bashing note. ;*)
    
    							Derek.

	Everyone out in the sun too long today? Sheesh

	Jean made a quick joke about why he is a separatist and
	the note goes to hell, pretty funny stuff if you ask me.

	Back to the pigpen...someone mentioned about abolishing the
	senate, I say "yes" to that! Downsize the government...get
	rid of the pork rind...okay fat - there I said it.

	Charlie

>>    >>Why does hearing about Quebec make you get sick ?
>>    
>>    	I'd reply, but I wouldn't want to turn this Senate bashing note
>>    into a Quebec bashing note. ;*)
    
>>    							Derek.
    
    Why would you bash Quebec ? 

    Why would I want to Bash Quebec ?
    
    
    
    
     Because it is so easy of course. :*) ;*) 8*)
    
    
    							Derek.
    
    
    

    So you want me to say something nice about Quebec ?  No problem.
    
     Today I saw in the paper that Quebec is willing to abolish the Senate.
    This is a change of heart because previously they had demanded that all
    their constitutional requirements be met first. I suppose the outrage
    over the Senate is as big an issue there as elsewhere. I say "Right on
    Quebec"!!
    
    Now let's get those other provinces to see the light.
    
    
    							Derek.

    
    
    You know, them skin heads still haven't got a prime target on their
    agenda...
    
    	And they don't care which province they have violence in.
    
    I say, let the skinheads at the senators, and then they'll be
    abolished, and there won't be anything nice left to say about 
    any provinces, and the bashing can continue without interuption !!
    
    	See, NO PROBLEMs !!!  
    
    

>>    So you want me to say something nice about Quebec ?  No problem.
>>  ...I say "Right on Quebec"!!
>>    
>>    Now let's get those other provinces to see the light.
    
    
>>    							Derek.
    
    Well, now I am confused: first you claim that you will "say something
    nice about Quebec", and in a contrived way, with a lot of reserves, 
    you do so, but the result sounds very demeaning to Quebec. Finally your
    parting sentence leaves me with the understanding that any province other
    than Quebec can provide light.
    Derek, I am concerned that the contradictions you so inadvertently
    express may hide a tortured soul, crying for help. Like if you deeply
    loved Quebec,its fun and bright people and its melodious language, the
    general wisdom of its politicians, but were afraid this admission would 
    make you appear vulnerable. Well Derek, it's OK to love Quebec and
    admit to it, so stop worrying about it and just say to yourself " I
    love everything about Quebec, and I'm OK, tabernouche !" 

    >>Well, now I am confused:
    
     Well now, I am not surprised.
    
    >>your parting sentence leaves me with the understanding that any province
    >>other than Quebec can provide light
    
     Any province can provide light. In fact, with James Bay, it is not
    surprising that the rest of us are illuminated from a source in Quebec.
    
    >>afraid this admission would make you appear vulnerable
    
     Hey I'm a guy of the 90's, I cry, I show my vulnerable side to those I
    feel will not stick a knife into it.
    
    >>may hide a tortured soul
    
     My soul is fine thank you, but if I translate YOUR last word
    correctly, I think you need to do a few "Hail Mary's" to ensure the
    well being of your soul.
    
    
    							Derek

    My remark on the state of your soul did not refer to any spiritual
    belief, and I apologize if my (humorous) use of a Quebecois curse has
    shocked you. I did not mean to comment on your, or anyone else's, religious
    beliefs or spiritual heritage. Please replacee the offending expression
    by "hot-dog!". 

    The translation of "Tabernouche" is "Nostril Hair".
    
    May not be swearing but it seems rather gross don't you think?
    
    Glenn

    Nostril Hair? Really? I've been in Montreal for the past few days and
    based on observation I thought it meant "this parking
    meter/payphone/vending machine just stole my quarter".  

	It has that meaning to...two...too...um...as well.

	Charlie

	ps My father used it once, I actually took it to mean "Please
	phone an ambulance, I've crushed my finger with a framing hammer"

    Unlike `taberwit', which is a very clever cat...
    
    Karf Barjunk

I thought "tabarouette" meant "your buggy".

Confused...

/Mario

    No "tabarouette" means "You have a wet bottom".
    
    Glenn

    I am sorry my using of a colloquial French Canadian expression started
    this slew of semiologic contributions. All this, however interesting it
    is, has resulted in straying far away from my original intent: helping
    Derek deal with his uncontrolled animosity toward the Province of Qu�bec 
    and its inhabitants, their customs and languages. 

    Nah! Let talk some more about wet bottoms.

	Aye! Wet bottoms it is!

    re .32
    
    >>>Unlike `taberwit', which is a very clever cat...
    
    Unlike `tabersnatch', which is kidnapping a cat...
    
    Dog

    Just to be serious for a moment (not too long), tabarnouche,
    tabarouette are all variations of tabarnac (tabernacle).  If you notice
    swear words in the provice of Qu�bec are all tied in some ways to
    religion which was taboo in the early days of the colony.  These swear
    words have endured and are now part of (some) people's vocabulary.  Les
    cyniques (a comedy foursome of the '70s) had a sketch with all the text
    composed entirely of "sacres".
    
    It is also very interesting to note that all english (well most of
    them) swear words are directed towards SEX, which was their taboo of
    the time.
    
    Forbidden Use of Carnal Knowlege
    
    Jean
    

    Holy Cow!

    Jumpin' gee hosaphat!!

    
    
 :   Forbidden Use of Carnal Knowlege
    
 :   Jean


    	I believe Jean meant:

    	Forbidden Use of Canal Knowledge


    	Very Grand of you!

    Re -.1   Your are right (was worth a laugh!)
    
    Now, the former prime minister just had a garage sale, he left some of
    his old furniture at 24 Sussex and took off with $150,000!  this pales
    the senators paltry $6k/year by a long shot.  Among the stuff he and
    his glorious wife (I think she must be related to Imelda Marcos) sold
    us is a 50 cover dinner set for $23,000.
    
    That's REALLY pigging out.
    
    Jean (that must have gotten your blood to boil eh Derek)
    

    

    Derek is on vacation he is not able to answer. Since I am also
    from Ontario, and well, Ontario'ans understand each other (if you're not
    from this province, you couldn't really understand us) I will try to
    answer how I feel Derek would of answered.


    	Ahem,


    	"You have to learn to make a bad situation better. I find that if
    I take the little porkers, wrap it with dough blanket and bake it @450 for 
    15min, you have something that you are not embarrassed to feed your
    friends."