Conference kaosws::canada

    There is SOME discussion if this in other notes, but to set the
    record straight ...  Canada has two major league baseball teams ...
    
    the Jays in the Americam League
    and the Montreal Expos in the National League
    
    Both of whom have done quite respectably.
    
    The Jays however are the first Canadian team to enter the World series
    (a playoff between the top team in each league.)
    
    While the teams are both based in Canada, I don't think that there is
    an actual Canadian in either team ... the teams are comprised of both
    Americans and Carribeans.
    
    But the pride that comes from having a Canadian based team in the World
    Series even spreads over to non-baseball enthusiasts like me who could
    not tell you who won last year's World Series.
    
    The Canadian baseball dream is a World Series with the Jays and the
    Expos.  From all accounts it could have happened this year, but the
    Expos didn't quite make it.
    
    Stuart (who is proud to display how little he knows about baseball!)
    

So, I hear that for the opening ceremony, the Americans hung the the 
Canadian flag upside down!!!

I guess we have to assume it was pure incompetence, rather than anything 
else.

    re .-2
    
    Stuart, the Expos currently enjoy the services of Larry Walker, a
    native of Maple Ridge, B.C.  
    
    I don't consider the Toronto Blue Jays to be Canada's team.  I
    travelled from Toronto to Montreal during the ALCS, and read in the
    paper that the Montreal papers scoped down the coverage of the series
    because, in the words of an editor "people in Montreal aren't as
    interested".  
    
    Anyway, I remain an Expos fan, despite the fact that the media have
    forsaken them in recent years.  I presume that many other Canadians
    feel as I do, overwhelmed by the Toronto media effect.
    
    Pieter
    
    
    

    The Montr�al Expos use to be "Canada's Team" but now that there is a 
    team in "(The Rest of) Canada", the Jay's probably are.
    
    I suspect that "Canada's Team" is really the team that makes it the
    farthest in the playoffs...
    
    Lockyer
    

    
    After the upside down flag and inside-out national anthem (courtesy of
    our own Tom Cochrane), I vote to have Rosanne reprise her own special
    version of the other national anthem!
    
    -doug_who_thinks_fair_is_fair
    

    
    re:-.1
    
    Variety is the spice of life, it goes with turbans and swords
    in the RCMP uniforms.
    
    8*(
    Pat

    Speaking of the Canadianism of baseball, I recently read an article by
    some baseball historian who claims that the first game of what we know
    as baseball was played somewhere in southern Ontario several years
    before Abner Doubleday was supposed to have "invented" the game (which
    was essentially a rip off of an English game of the times called rounders)
    
    Babe Ruth hit his first home run in Toronto (this was also his last
    minor league run)
    
    The Jays are being called the best team money can buy and considering
    that this is beer money were talking about what could be more Canadian?
    

    I would suspect that in the US interest in the World Series has
    diminished somewhat with the presence of a Canadian team - and given
    that Atlanta doesn't have the 'pulling power' of LA or NY, it's
    probably meant indifference to some extent south of the border.
    
    I wonder if any possible 'indifference' masks thoughts that a non-US
    team could actually win America's prized trophy!
    
    There may not be any Canadians on the Team, but I suspect there
    probably aren't as many Americans as there might once have been either 
    (Puerto Ricans, Jamaicans, etc).  
    
    Perhaps baseball is more global than Americans might think, heck, we'll
    have to start brushing up on our 'rounders' over here!!
    
    "The English are coming, the English are coming...."
    
    CJ

�    "The English are coming, the English are coming...."
    
    But not for a while yet ........
    
    Wayne

    Over 6000 US flags were sold in Toronto yesterday. Expect to 
    see a few upside down flags at tonight's contest. If there's
    one thing the Yanks are proud of it's that star-spangled banner.
    Nice to know we can get'em back, as childish as it may seem.
    
    Andy

    I would hope that we would act a bit more classier than them and stick
    it to 'em where it counts --- on the field.
    
    /susan

       
       In a surprise move early this morning, Canadian and US negotiators
       arranged the Mother of all Baseball bets.
       
       If Toronto wins the series, Bush gets sent to Canada; if the
       Bravos win, the States get to keep Mulroney.
       
       --Mr Topaz

    RE: .12
    
    Well we don't want Bush or Mulroney!!! So, we'll win, let you keep
    Bush, and send Mulroney too!!!  Maybe he can destroy 2 countries in one
    lifetime! :-) :-)
    
    And on the "THIS SIDE UP" topic, maybe that Honor Guard that goofed in
    Atlanta are the same people who ship fragile packages with the same
    note on it!  I agree with Mr. Watters (hi Andy!), if we fly the Stars
    and Stripes upside down tonight (the fans, not the official one) then
    it is petty.  But, it will happen.  The only ones who benefit are all
    those folks selling flags and t-shirts.
    
    Otto.

    
    I think a better response to the flag incident is for every man, woman
    and child present to have our flag in their hands and to wave it at
    every opportunity!
    
    -doug

As a more polite gesture, we should have a 10-year old cadet raise both flags
right-side-up, just to show that it doesn't take adult intelligence to do
it right.

Mario

    When you talk of flag, I assume it's the Maple Leaf and not the
    Provincial flag.....
    
    Sounds to me like 'Canada's Team'!!
    
    Hey, if it's tit for tat - you could always sing the Star Spangled
    Banner incorrectly!!
    
    CJ_who's_working_on_his_rouunders_game

    
    re: the flag incident
    
    President Bush apologized and more or less chastised the Marines,
    saying that if it happened the other way around (and the U.S. flag was
    upside down), the Americans would be very upset.
    
    CBS was careful not to show too many crowd shots....in case they caught
    some signs or T-shirts displaying the Stars and Stripes inverted. 
    There was one sign above the scoreboard that said, 
    "The U.S. Marines...the few...the proud....the dyslexic"
    
    
    re: the opening bit of the telecast
    
    I don't know how the Americans viewed it, but myself and a few other
    Canadians were a bit offended with the opening segment before the game.
    That was where one of the CBS reporters showed a bunch of kids playing
    catch and he says that it looks like baseball is finally catching on in
    Canada.  Then they show a closeup of the kids playing catch with a
    hockey puck.  Then he is in the airport going through customs, and the
    customs officer first speaks French (in Toronto....c'mon).  There was
    more chance of the customs officer wearing a turban than there was of
    him speaking French initially.
    Then this `reporter' mentions how cold it is in Canada to be playing
    baseball......wasn't there snow on the ground in Pittsburgh? 
    Minneapolis is north of Toronto, you know.
    The segment ends with the kids being shown again and the reporter says 
    that the kids are getting it right now.  One kid has in his hand `a
    real baseball'...wow!.  Then the camera pans to show a kid up to bat
    with a hockey stick and another kid dressed up as a goalie and acting
    as a catcher.
    
    I know it's all in fun, but it's no wonder that a lot of the American
    public are brainwashed with this crap and think that Canadians are a
    bunch of rubes who speak French and live year round in snow and only know 
    how to play hockey.
    
    
    pete

    All that is not evil-minded, it is just ignorance (which can be/is
    dangerous in more important instances)

    Yup, just look at the Japaneese!  can't make a mistake.
    
    Also for information, the first black player to play in the major
    leagues, played for the Montr�al Royals (before the Expos).
    
    Jean
    

    Re: .17
    
    WRT the opening telecast shenanigans, I totally agree.  CBS had a
    golden opportunity to dispell some of the ignorance about Canada and
    Canadians and instead poked fun at us.  As good natured as it may have
    been intended to be, I was irritated.  I wonder what they'll dish up
    tonight.
    
    Go Jays,
    /susan
    
    

Regarding Tuesday Evening's Game:


With all the dispute and uncertainty that is going on these days
regarding the Referendum, it is just wonderful to feel good about
one's country's "united" enthusiasm.

After listening and watching sections of the game on Tuesday 
evening, all I can say is that I was extremely proud to be a Canadian!  
The crowd singing the National Anthem in unison with Anne Murray was 
just fantastic and brought goose-bumps to my flesh! Unfortunately, it's
not very often that we show our true patriotic feelings but last
night we did!!   

Good going Canada -- we were all very proud of you!  


    



	"OK! OK! Blue Jays! Blue Jays! Let's Play Ball!!!"

Theresa (a proud Canadian -- in good times and in bad)

    I'm a Canadian and I found that humourous bit by CBS to be VERY FUNNY!

    Doesn't anyone have a sense of humour any more? Americans have a sense
    of humor. 
       -----

    I enjoy feeding gullible Americans disinformation about our country.
    The idea that some Americans thought that the scene with the kids playing
    baseball with hockey equipment was real makes me howl! I only wish they
    could have filmed it next to the Grand Canal!

    When you hear of Americans trekking up here in the summer time equipped
    with skis etc. do you get upset or do you laugh? I laugh! It's funny. 
    That spot by CBS made me laugh. It was funny. I like to laugh how about
    you?

    Why are people becoming so grim in this country?
    
    Glenn

    
    Did anyone else hear about the group of Americans asking directions
    to the CNN tower?! What a hoot! This is great stuff.
    
    Pat
    

    I feel the same way about this as I know US southerners feel about
    the humour that is constantly aimed at them based on the premise that
    all southerners are Bar-B-Que eating, ignorant, redneck versions of the
    "Hey Vern" guy. 
    
    They have a pretty good sense of humour about it and even encourage it
    up to a point but if it's pushed too far they react very strongly. Tuesday 
    night's sketch pushed me too far, sure it was meant to be funny but it 
    just came out offensive. 
    
    In general I'd say that the re-broadcast CBS coverage were stuck with
    really bites, we could have Dick Beddoes and Don Cherry as the 
    commentators and it would be an improvement. In fact I think tonight I'll 
    turn off the sound and put the radio on and hope they aren't too far out 
    of sync (since the TV uses satelittes and the radio land lines the TV lags 
    behind anywhere from .5 to 2.5 seconds, it can be really distracting).  

Not being a baseball fan, but pulling for a northern city (Atlanta, YUCK!) and
an American League team, I'll throw my 2� worth in.

o Most Americans don't live near Canada.
  I grew up and still live in Michigan.  I spend a lot more vacation time in
  Ontario than Ohio or Indiana.  The further away you go from the border, the
  more folks think of Canada as "up north" and more foreign, than different.  
  For example, I think nothing of using Canada pennies, nickels, and dimes at
  stores in the USA.  Once while in Texas I had a store clerk take her finger
  and slid a Canadian penny across the counter towards me saying "Sorry Sir,
  we don't accept those things here."  That has never happened in Michigan.

o Most Americans ...
  - could not describe their own state flag, much less Canada's or Mexico's.
  - were embarrassed at the upside-down Canadian flag (my opinion).
  - don't know or understand much about *any* other country, even the close ones.

o American's get too weird about flags (opinion).
  I've been told that only two countries ever had a pledge of allegiance to a
  flag; the U.S.A. and Nazi Germany .. Hummm.  A constitutional amendement on
  flag burning, give me a break!
  I think folks (media) would have made a big deal if the RCMP would have put
  the U.S.A. flag upside-down.  Mistakes are mistakes.

o Most American's probably find baseball slow and boring to watch, especially
  on T.V.

o I want Jack Morris to pitch another great series winning game.

-Don

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                         -< True North Strong & Free >-
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Note 627.0                 Can't Agree about Jack ...                    1 reply
TROOA::MANNELLA "Obfuscation Obliterator"            17 lines  22-OCT-1992 12:37
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Re: .25

I like your comments on Amercians vs. Canadians but I've got a serious 
problem when it comes to Jack Morri$.  As a 10-year veteran of Blue-Jays 
seasons tickets, I feel I can comment on this.  Anyone with a 4.8 ERA 
should not be pitching in the Fall Classic.  I've been crying to have Jimmy 
Key pitch before the Oakland series.  He was BRILLIANT last night.

The Jays are in no position to score 5 runs against Braves pitching to 
cover for big Jack.  I want them to win more than anyone (after all I've 
helped pay their salaries for 10 years), but think that Todd Stoddlemire 
(sp?) should pitch tonight.  We've got a great bullpen (minus Henke), and 
we should use it more often.

Go JAYS Go  ... No Jack No !!!

Mario
    

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Note 627.1                 Can't Agree about Jack ...                     1 of 1
TROOA::MANNELLA "Obfuscation Obliterator"             7 lines  22-OCT-1992 12:41
               -< That was for 626.25 - Oh well ... Go JAYS !! >-
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Ooops, that was supposed to be an answer to 626.25.
Oh well, I'm still a little groggy from last night's win.

Prediction :  The JAYS will win tonight in front of the 4,000,000+
	      who've paid their way, and waited a long time for this !!

:-) Mario
    

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TROOA::PILGRIM "Expatriate Newf - Insanity Intact"    9 lines  22-OCT-1992 13:47
                                -< Go Jays Go >-
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    RE: -1
    
    UMMMMMM... Don't know how to tell you this Mario... but don't you mean 
    625.25???
    
    BTW:  You had season tickets and didn't invite me or mine once??? 8-0
    And I thought you were a nice guy too!!!  geeesh!!! ;-) ;-)
    
    BB
    

    In typical Blue Jays style they take it right to the wire!
    
    YEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
    
    Great thriller ... better than Alfred Hitchcock anyday!
    
    Stuart

    Stuart, was that really you?
    
    8^)

    I stayed up late to listen to the game on the American Forces Network
    (I can just about recieve it) but as luck would have it, the
    atmospheric conditions prevented me from recieving it at all. I had to
    wait until Sunday morning for the score.
    
    Way to go, JAYS !
    
    Wayne

    How come they call them the Toronto Blue Jays when Canada jays are grey?
    

    The jays in my garden are Blue, so a lot of them live north of the 49th
    parallel.
    
    /susan

	The jays which frequent my garden are very blue...they certainly
	are nice to look at but if a bird could have manners these
	ones certainly don't have them.

	I have even seen them stealing dog kibbles, something they beat the
	starlings out of. (starlings, which I thought were the pig birds of
	world)

	I would not want my team to be associated with them, blue or not.

	Charlie

    Of course it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the
    Blue Jays are owned by brewery who's flagship product is called Blue. 
    Nothing whatsoever.

Re: .32

Your right about Canadian Jays ... they are grey.  However the Blue Jay is 
a different bird from the same family.  Neither of these birds are well 
known for their social behaviour !!

I'm sorry that I was right on two counts, Jack Morri$ would loose, and 
that Tom Henke is well past his prime.  However, the drama was wild on 
Saturday.  I live near the Don Valley Parkway and fans were leaving the 
Dome and beeping their horns well past 3:00 AM.  A small price to pay for a 
great WORLD SERIES victory !!

Perhaps we should start talking about what players we should trade/keep for 
the new year.

Mario

WORLD SERIES trivia -->  It's called the WORLD series because for the first 
two years this non-existent playoff was sponsored and payed for by a little 
paper called the NEW YORK WORLD !!  Now CANADA has truely made it a real 
WORLD SERIES!!!  WAY TO GO JAYS !!

    
    Actually I believe that there are Grey Jays or you may be thinking of
    the female Jay who are a different shade of Blue. 
    
    But really who cares!!! We are still the best in the WORLD!!!!
    Go Jays Go! Go Jays Go!

    Re: .36
    
    I had heard that bit of trivia several times over the last few years (I
    even mentioned it earlier in this thread) and was suprised this week to
    read, in the Toronto Star, that the historians at Cooperstown have never
    found any evidence that a paper called the world ever sponsored the
    baseball championship, the term World Series was apparently coined by a
    St. Louis sportswriter.
    
    Now for some really interesting trivia, in 1868 some baseball
    enthuisiasts in in Detroit organized a tournament for organized
    baseball clubs (what we would call semi-pro teams today) teams from 
    all over the eastern seaboard (i.e. everywhere that baseball
    was being played in the world) where invited, including two from
    Canada.
    
    The winning team was the one from Hamilton, Ontario. So let's salute
    the Blue Jays as the 2nd Canadian team to be World champions of
    professional baseball. 

    ...WORLD CHAMPIONS....?
    
    Why do Americans refer to their sports trophies as World Champions,
    because clearly they're not.
    
    The best baseball in the world probably is found in the NL and AL, 
    just as the best American football is probably in the NFL and CFL, and
    the best basketball the NBA but without these championships not 
    involving the world can this assumption really be made?!
    
    I know of no other club-level sport that makes such grand claims.
    
    regardless - it still sounds good to hear that the 'Toronto Blue Jays
    are the .......World Champions'!
    
    CJ_member_of_the_Rounders_World_Championship_Team
                    
     

World Champs may not be appropriate, but it comes from the name World Series
which were named after some newspager (Brooklyn World?) which sponsored the
event when is was first held.  This was mentioned somewhere here before.

/Mario