Conference kaosws::canada

    I hate to dissapoint you Derek, but the infamous Great White North
    McKenzie brothers are not brothers ... and are Americans!
    
    Stuart

    I knew they were not brothers, but are you sure niether of them are
    Canadian?
    
    						Derek.

    Sorry .... Hollywood 1 ... Canada No score
    

Yo Stewart,

Dave Thomas is the brother of Ian Thomas who is a musician of some notoriety
in the Canadian music scene.  Definitely a Canuck.  You're British aren't
you?

Don the Friendly

    I'd recommend you view "The Canadian Conspiracy" often shown in CITY TV
    in Toronto.  It is a very tongue in cheek look at how Canadians are
    conspiring to take over the American entertainment industry.  You'd be
    suprised at all the Canadians in Hollywood. Dave Thomas is definitely
    Canadian (from the Hamilton area I believe), went to McMaster
    University and is the brother of Ian Thomas.
    
    

    OK, I eat humble pie ... I'd heard quite definitively that they
    were both American ... OH well ... Hollywood 1, Stuart lost.
    
    

I thought they were Somalians...

>Yo Stewart,
>
    
    That's    Stuart
                ^
    
    Just a subtle hint ... :-)
    
>	..............................................You're British aren't
>you?

    WRONG!    Surprise surprise, eh, I'm Canaj'n.
    
    

Stuart,

I'm so sorry!

Dawn

    
    	Of course the #1 difference is...the alchohol level in the beer!!!
    
    	Ben
    
    	PS. I'm pretty sure that Rick Moranis is also a Canadian.

    Actually, it's hard to tell about differences in alcohol level of the
    two countries' beer because Canada measures alcohol by volume,
    whereas the States measures alcohol percentage by weight.
    (I read it in the BEER conference, so it must be true!)
    
    Mike

    
    	Then how come I can drink twice as much American beer?
    
    	Ben
    

    The real main difference I see is that Canadian tell me they're Canadian,
    and tell me about Canadian culture, way of life etc.

    Americans tell me they are English-Americans, German-Americans, 
    Jewish-Americans, African-Americans, Polish-Americans, Irish-Americans, 
    Japanese Americans, Italian-Americans etc......and then tell me about the 
    part of their family history generations ago that isn't American.

    Sometimes they leave out the American bit altogeter and tell me they're
    English, Irish etc., and its only after a while that you find out it was a 
    great-grandmother that happened to be English.

    Heather

    Everyone has forgotten the biggest difference!
    
    
    
    Canada has the Grand Canal!
    
    (This is where Stuart soakes his blanket) 8^)
    
    Glenn

    And Amereicans have Watergate to empty the Grand Canal ...
    
    my blanket is perfectly dry thank you! :-)

    If Canadians tolerate Qu�bec, would you then say that we are a distinct
    society?
    
    other tid-bits;
    
    Canadians will buy from outside of their country 99% of the time if: 
    	1-The price is less by the tiniest of margins
    	2-If they can do so by not paying tax(es)
    	3-They beleive quality products are not built in their
    	  own country.
    	4-They absolutely can't get it from outside.
    	5-They think it is "in"
    
    Evidence of the above: cross border shopping, japanese car sales...
    
    It is true that Canadians are more peacefull than other nations and the
    most peacefull of all canadians are the residents of the province of
    Qu�bec.  We were dragged into three wars by the rest of the country,
    two of them (WW1 and WW2) by referendums after being promised we were
    not going to be drafted.
    
    While we do have better social programs than all the other countries,
    we are not too happy about paying for those programs.
    
    Canadians generaly spend their vacations outside their country unless
    they don't have enough money, then they go camping or stay home.
    
    Altough there was no mention of the Grand Canal in the constitution
    accord, it is beleived to be the only unifying option available to all
    residents.
    
    Canadians also produce the best rum in the world (screech)!
    
    Jean
    
    

    Do you believe that Quebec tolerates the rest of the country ?
    If so we are a distict society ... :-)
    
    
    Most countries will buy outside their borders under the conditions
    you specify ... another criterion ... the handbook is readable.
    
    This is not just a Canadian phenomenon!
    
    Stuart

    I think if we lined the Grand Canal with Flea Markets and Beaver Tail
    vending establishments from coast to coast it would would be just the
    shot in the arm this country needs!
    
    Vote YES for beaver tails!
    
    Vote NO for wet blankets!
    
    Vote YES for better toilet seats!
    
    Glenn

>    Altough there was no mention of the Grand Canal in the constitution
>    accord, it is beleived to be the only unifying option available to all
>    residents.

	There's hope for you yet...  ;-)

    
     Now I'm as proud of Canada and it's achievements as you are Jean, but
    I don't think we should let our patriotism cloud our judgement. The
    best rum in the world comes from the Barbados.
    
     Seriously, you risk having your notes categorised as trivial or
    irrelevent by mentioning the Grand Canal. Just a friendly suggestion,
    when you are trying to make a serious point, don't mention the GC.
    
     I feel your attack on camping to be unwarrented. The best way to see
    the natural beauty that Canada has to offer is by going to National or
    Provincal Parks. The fiords in Gross Mourn National Park don't take
    American Express. I also feel you may be reflecting a regional
    phenomenon when you suggest that Canadians prefer to vacation outside
    their country. It is a well document fact that people from Quebec flock
    to Florida during the winter months.
    
     Perhaps you are representing another regional attitude when you
    suggest that Canadians are unhappy about paying for social programs. I
    don't know, because I have never heard that Canadians felt that way. I
    have seen polls indicating that Canadians are proud of their Health
    Care system. It would seem strange to begrudge the money to do
    something you are proud of. What I have heard people saying they were
    not happy about paying for, is this endless constitutional wrangling.
    
     I am really surprised you would mention Quebec's resistance to
    fighting in WWII (in light of the potential outcome). Sticking your
    head in the sand will not make the problem go away, or perhaps those
    German U-Boats in the St Lawrence were just sight-seeing? Besides, I
    said Canadians were committed to humanitarian goals, not peaceful.
    Anyone who watches hockey will understand what I mean.
    
    As for cross border shopping, I suspect that an activity that has been in
    existance for a couple of years cannot have worked it's way down to the
    level being ingrained into the culture. But you raise the point, so we
    should keep an eye on it.
    
     If I may summarize, you have defined culture in terms of:
    
    	1. Shopping
    	2. Ignoring world politics
    	3. Complaining about paying for services
    	4. Vacation planning
    	6. Distilling alcohol
    
     With your definition, I am sure there will be no problem getting
    the rest of the country to respect Quebec's right to protect it's
    culture, or distinct society.
    
     I disagree with your definition for what Distinct Society means. Since
    I did not have a good definition of my own, I looked it up.
    
    Distinct:
    	- not identical
    	- seperate
    	- different in quality or kind
    	- clearly perceptable
    	- definite and unmistakeable
    Society
    	- organized community
    	- distinguished or fashionable member of a community
    	- mixing with other people
    	- companionship
    	- company
    	- association of persons sharing common aim or interest
    
     Out of all the possible cominations I choose:
    
    CLEARLY PERCEPTIBLE ASSOCIATION OF PERSONS SHARING A COMMON INTEREST 
    
     If we could agree on a definition, perhaps I would say that Quebec is
    a Distinct Society.
    
    							Derek.
         
     

    Re -.1
    
    Well I guess there is hope for you too.
    
    If you drank screech, you may know that it does come from the west
    indies and is repackaged by the Newfs.  The best in the world is
    St-James rum, with screech a very close second, but with a distinct
    price advantage screech wins.  It is a real shame I have to buy it in
    Ontario since it is not available in Qu�bec
    
    Since I did include references to the Grand Canal all my responses
    should have been taken with a grain of salt except of course the
    reference to screech.
    
    Jean
    
    

    I'm suprised that no-one mentioned what I perceive the differences to
    be:
    
    Yanks are perceived to be obnoxious, while we are considered to be
    polite (to the point of boring).
    
    I also think that non-north-americans would find it helpful to know
    that  in general Canadians have a higher taxation rate (but have yet to
    start REALLY complaing about it) than Yanks, but get more services for
    it (needed or not).  I remember the stink raised south of the border
    when someone wanted to add a penny to the cost of gas to help pay for
    roads (or some such thing).  That motion eventually got rescinded,
    while in Canada it seems every provincial/federal budget invites more
    taxes on Gas and Smokes.  
    
    I don't mind paying taxes on gas since it is a non-renewable resource
    and it does harm the atmosphere, and that is something the States
    should start to realize.
    
    Oh, Yeah, one more thing.  Canadians outside of Quebec aren't really
    flag-wavers (you certainly see a lot of flags on St.-Jean Baptiste
    day).  The U.S. flag seems to be very common south of the border.  This
    thought came to mind because I just purchased a house and wanted to
    show my pride in the country with a small Canadian flag outside.  For
    various reasons, I ended up doing the Canadian thing and hanging it at
    the back of my house.  :^)
    
    Doug
    Canadian First!

    It also seems to me that Canadians have a drier sense of humour than
    Americans. Grand Canal notwithstanding.
    
    I like the difference!
    
    Glenn

    This note has been very educational for me (a yank from Maine). 
    Previous to today I thought the major difference between Canadians and
    Mainiacs was that Canadians had more left over snow bags in the back yard.
    
    Not so, eh.    Bob

Canadians know what an American flag look like and could, by instinct without
even thinking about it, display one right-side up.

Americans don't know that a Canadian flag look like, let alone display one right
side up...

/M

    re:-1
    
    
    Not to mention that lovely rendition of O'Canada by Tom Cochrane
    at last nights ball game.
    
    Re: the flag
    
    What a kick in the teeth for all Canadians; mistake or not!
    

    Was listening to (phonetically spelled!) Zoskey on CBC Morningside (a
    current affairs talk radio show) this AM.  He led off with a bit on the
    flag affair and spoke with a public relations Warant Officer in the US 
    Marine Corp.  He seemed to be genuinely emabarassed on apologized a
    number of times for the screw-up.  They also talked to a radio station
    producer in Atlanta and between the two of them (the marines and the
    producer), it sounds like there were a number of foul-ups concerning
    the flag and opening ceromonies:
    
    1.  The marines were not originally supposed to raise the Canadian flag
    and were only given the task a few minutes perfrom they performed.  The
    public relations gut said the color gaurd doesn't actually see
    (probably meant pays attention to) the flag they're putting up. 
    They're focused on staring straight ahead and carrying out the
    ceromony...
    
    2.  After the error was noticed, the Atlanta Braves or the stadium
    issued a press release (by the end of the second inning) blaiming the
    US Army.
    
    3.  The radio producer said Cochrane screwed up the national anthem -
    what did he get wrong?
    
    
    The Marine officer was adamant that this would never happen again -
    what do you think the color gaurd is doing today, and maybe for a few
    more days...
    
    Regards,
    
    Garry

    Do you **really** believe the flag up-ending was unintentional?  I
    mean, whether or not the color guard member looked at it, someone had
    to look at the flag as it was being mouted/positioned!  Do you string
    up a flag without looking at it?????
    
    Suspicious...
    

    I agree.
    
    I hope we win it in four and then send "them" a telegram announcing
    that we are renaming it the Canuck Cup.
    
    /susan

    Well, was the pole at least upwind from the flag? I'm sure they
    probably got that part right!
    
    Glenn

    Normally a flag of any size to be "flown" cannot be accidentally flown
    upside down, even when furled.  The reason is simple, a flag has a
    toggle on the top and free rope at the bottom vis ...
    
    
    	<=>   <- Toggle put through a loop in the upper halyard
    	 |
         -----------------------------------------
        |                                         |
    	|					  |
    	| 					  |
    	 -----------------------------------------
    	 |
    	 |
    	 |   <- Free end tied to the lower halyard
    	 |
    
    
    Thus it seems unlikely that this was flown upside down ... unless it
    was a small flag.
    
    Stuart

    Re: .30:
    
    Susan,
    
    I hate to break the news to you, but there is going to be at least 5
    games...                                        
    
    Garry
    

    Yes (4 straight)
    
    Thank you, Garry
    
    /susan
    

    RE: .32
    
    I took a look at the "Toronto Sun" picture of the inverted flag this
    morning, looking for exactly what you described (I only hung about 500
    of 'em in my Forces days).  The flag in question looks like one of
    those permanently attached jobbies with no lanyards, just a "tunnel" of
    material that the pole is run through and then stapled.  The mistake
    could have been made at the factory, or the Base, but I don't think the
    Guard strung the flag there in the stadium.  The poor guys were
    probably just handed the flag and told to march out there.
    
    I was kind of perturbed to begin with that the Canadian Flag was being
    carried about 20 paces behind the American and Pennant flags instead of 
    to the left of the American flag (between the pennant flags).
    
    It just looked like poor organization, not a deliberate slur.
    
    BB

    I heard on the radio last night that over 5000 american flags have been
    purchased in Toronto.  Do you suppose anybody is going to hang those
    flags UPSIDE DOWN at tonight's game ?  
    I wonder what those CBS guys will say about that ?
    
    Mike

    MIX 99.9 is offering $1000 to any fan who is shown on CTV with a banner
    displaying "MIX 99.9", the Jays logo, and an inverted Braves logo.
    
    Also, as previously noted, one store alone here in T.O. has sold 6000 
    U.S. flags since Sunday's game. Hmmmmmmmm...
                     
    BB 

    I for one am glad the apology was accepted so graciously by the
    Canadian fans. A country can only do so much to apologise, and the
    States did pretty much all of it. Only an immature insecure society
    would blow a flag incident into a national crisis.
    
    						Derek. 

Derek,

Glad to see you're better and able to dial-in.  BTW, there's been 2 calls in
the queue from the same customer (Oxford Develoment, your favorite) since
Monday.  They've been asking for you, you lucky guy.  We told them you were
sick but they said they'd wait.  Bet you can't wait to get back to work now...

:-)

Mario

    The quintessential difference between Canadians and 'Murricans:
    
    	- No matter what their race/colour/creed/ethnic background, etc,
    	an American is always in the final analysis an American - and s/he'll
    	fight like a wildcat to prove that point and retain that privilege.  
    Call 'em "unamerican" - and get your face handed to you. 
    
    	- A Canadian, on the other hand, is too ready to be something else :
    Quebecois, Aboriginal, Ukrainian, Italian, Asian, or whatever - and
    thinks s/he must be bribed with special privileges and statuses before
    s/he'll condescend to acknowledge Canadian citizenship. 
    
    Canadians should learn to abandon those who'se allegiance must be
    bought. 
    
    
    	/Todd.

    RE: -1
    
    You forgot the quintessential self-definition of a Canadian...
    
    The thing Canadians are most proud of is that we are NOT 'Murricans.
    
    NORTH Americans... yes; 'Murricans... nuh-uh!!
    
    BB                

    re .40:
    
    Todd, its not that Quebecois' allegiances must be bought - they simply
    don't se it.  How many times have we all heard from Quebecois: "I am a
    Quebecois first and foremost, NOT a Canadian"?
    
    Pieter
    

Pieter,

You may have heard it many times but surely not 6.5 million times.

It appears that non-Quebecers like to push Quebecers to say that they Canadians
first, not Quebecers first.  The fact is, in my opinion, that only a Quebecer
who was born and raised in the province can even comment on whether it is right
or wrong to say *I'm a Quebecer first or a Canadian first*.  Anyone who has
not ever lived there before for a reasonable amount of time doesn't know what
it is to grow up as Quebecers.  I myself was born and raised there and, even 
being a federalist, if someone would ask me, I'd probably I'm a Quebecer.  It
doesn't take away from the fact that I'm proud to be Canadian at the same time.
Maybe I'm more attached to my Province because of my culture.

/Mario

    
    On the other hand, I was also born and raised in french in Quebec
    and consider myself a Canadian (who used to live in Quebec).
    
    Benoit 

    
    	>On the other hand, I was also born and raised in french in Quebec
        >and consider myself a Canadian (who used to live in Quebec).
    
    	A Canadian first and foremost is what I meant to say.
    
    	Benoit

	Born and raised in that part of Canada called Quebec but I was
	a Canadian then and I'm a Canadian now...and damned proud of it!

	Charlie

    Me too.. (just like Charlie, born there, raised there, only moniker
    that applies is Canadian!)
    
    Otto.

There you go.  We all have different opinions but it doesn't make us any less
Canadian does it?  Even if we are fedaralist or separatist.

The point I was trying to make is that English-Canada can't force-feed the
idea of being Canadian 1st on any Quebecer.  It's all up to you as to how
you want to call yourself.

/Mario

    Mario:
    
    FYI, I was born in Montreal and spent 12 years of my life there. 
    Being Anglo doesn't mean I totally ignored my surroundings.  
    
    Also, I was **observing** that Francophone Quebecois simply identify
    themselves as Quebecois first, Canadians (somewhere lower on the list). 
    I was not implying that Anglo Canada wants to force the idea of
    Canadianism down their throats.  Doesn't the Distinct Society mean
    anything?  What is that, if it isn't an attempt to recognize the other
    culture??????
    
    By the way, I heard the phrase "Quebecois first, Canadians less so"
    **again** last night, from an analyst on the referendum converage.
    
    Another interesting thing was the difference between Ile-De-Montreal votes
    and hors-De-Montreal.  There was a higher percentage of Non outside of
    the city, higher percentage of Oui in the city (not certain of the
    actual numbers, however).  This was explained by the analysts by the
    concentration of Anglo and Allophone votes in the city.
    
    Pieter