Conference kaosws::canada

    Last night CBC Newsworld (I think this is the name for CBC's all news
    channel) did a couple hours of open-line calls answering the question 
    "How are you going to vote in the referendum, and why?".  I only watched 
    the last hour or so and didn't keep count, but my impression is that it
    was about a 50/50 split with maybe a edge to the NO side.  The "YES"
    supporters seemed to be accepting Mulroney's "Doom and Gloom" argument
    and arguning from a relatively emotional perspective - this is a
    wondeful country, this is the best deal we can expect and the world
    ends if the answer is "NO".  The "NO" side seemed to argue more on
    specific points or merits of the deal and didn't think the world was
    going to end if the answer was "NO".
    
    CBC also interviewed a couple of money traders - both agreeded
    that a "YES" was preferred, but a "NO" would be no big deal.  Either
    way the numbers (principally interest rates) would determine whether or
    not they invested in Canada.
      
    Anyway, Jean, I thik you're going to be suprised.  I think there is
    much more support in Ontario for a "NO" than is evident at this time. 
    For example, during Newsworld's phone in, almost all Ontarians that
    called in from outside Ottawa said they would vote "NO", while folks
    from Ottawa said "YES".  I think we would agree that folks in Ottawa
    have a lot to worry about if a "NO" vote did lead to the destruction of
    Canada...
    
    I predict an overall "NO" result, with fairly uniform rejection across
    Canada.
    
    Regards,
    
    Garry
    
    Ottawa

	Brian is forcing a 'NO' vote himself. I think I would have voted 'YES'
	if the question was given without any hoopla, but now that the
	Mulrooney is blackmailing me, 'NO' feels alot more comfortable.

	Charlie

    I agree that BC will go slightly towards "No".  I disagree with your
    sampling from open lines though.  We have a champion NO-sayer here in
    Raif Mair, and if one based one's prediction on the vocal and emotional
    types that phone in to open line shows, one would be mislead.
    
    I believe there is a silent majority out there who when pressed might
    complain, but will end up voting yes.  
    
    I think Trudeau's criticisms are right on - and he will sway a lot of
    his followers.  But as bad as it is, notice Clyde Wells overall stated
    he would have to "hold his nose and vote yes".  Same with Eric Kierans.
    True blue liberals and canadian patriots...
    
    Pieter
    

    Open line phone in shows definitely do not represent the country in
    general ... often they are populated by people who like to call open
    line shows!
    
    To be honest, I don't like many aspects of this compromise.  It is far
    worse than Meech in many ways and that was bad enough.  However, it
    is far more representative of the wants of the provinces in general
    and so will not result in the same longer term dissention that we would
    have had under Meech.  Meech definitely was going to be stop-gap.
    This accord stands a chance of lasting a little longer.
    
    I do not believe in the severe gloom and doom predicted by Mulroney,
    but on the other hand it sure is not going to be smooth sailing for
    Quebec, or the rest of the country, as we all decide what we are going
    to do and where our allegiances are going to lie.
    
    I hope that we will follow Clyde Wells lead and vote for this accord.
    How the country will vote will be determined by how the yea sayers
    continue try to sell it to the people.
    
    Either way we are looking at a very different Canada.
    
    Stuart

Jean,

After perusing this notes file for the last couple of years, it doesn't take
a rocket scientist to figure out which way you're going to vote!  Let me help
you out a bit.  You people are going to get your chance to vote on Separation 
and NOT Sovereignty.  You've been getting it all for too long now.  The rest 
of the country won't put up with any more of your pompous demands.  You get 
your "distinct society", senate 'appointments' and who knows what else, yet 
Quebec still thinks that it has given in!  You seem to have turned a blind
eye to the gains that the french language has made in the last twenty years
accross Canada.  Quebec then goes and institutes Bill 101.  You ^&$%^&%$
&%^$#@s shot yourself in the foot right there.  Any sympathy that may have been
felt towards your 'insecurities' went right out la fenetre.

I predict that the majority of the country will VOTE NO, including some of those 
provinces thought to go YES.  Basically, nobody wants Quebec to leave Canada
but Canadians are sick and tired of Quebec's (your) constant whining about how
terrible it is being a Canadian.  

The current Referendum question is mumbo-jumbo.  The real question should be
"Are you a first and foremost a Canadian and do wish to remain a Canadian?"

I know that over 80% of Canadians would vote YES to that question.


Don

    I gather  you would vote YES, if you are going to vote yes to such
    imprecise agreements, I think you may also sign a blank check to me or
    else give me your bank card with your personal number and trust me to
    take good care of your money.
    
    You do not live here and you can't judge how language laws have
    affected life, let me tell you that all language laws have made an
    impact to the level of "francophonie" in Qu�bec over the last 20 years.
    If I look at how knowing french has progressed from being a language
    spoken at home and on the streets to being a business language in that
    time, this progress would not have been so rapid without bill-22,
    bill-101 and bill-178.  The biggest change came when the PQ came to
    power in 1976, some gains have been lost since the liberals came back
    in power.
    
    If the question was "are you a Canadian?", this would lead to another
    one: what IS a Canadian?, What makes him different from a United Stater?
    
    you tell me!
    
    Jean
    

    What is different between a Canadian and an American ?  There are lots
    of differences ... and yes most of them are subtle so to someone who
    doesn't want to be Canadian, you can turn a blind eye to them.
    
    What is the difference between yourselves and the French (as in from
    France), apart from where you live ?  I could easily say that you
    are all the same ... especially if I wanted you to cecede, but on the
    other hand I *know* you are not the same people anymore and most
    Quebecois could not integrate easily into French society.
    
    Canadians would equally have some difficulty accepting the differences
    with American society, or even English society.
    
    If you want to tell us to join the US, can we tell you to go join
    France ?
    
    As to the language laws, you certainly cannot say that the strength
    of the French language was totally the result of the language laws.
    Promotion of the language can equally come from self-confidence as
    a peoplec ... a realization that Quebec can become an industrial
    and economic province rather than an agricultural and forestry
    province ... in the same way that the rest of Canada has ... and
    is currently trying to show the world that we are more than a resource
    based economy.
    
    Stuart

    
    I regard membership in confederation as a privilege and not a right,
    
    and would suggest that the referendum question should be worded
    
    like " Should the 10th province's name change to Turks and Caicos
           Islands, rather than Quebec?"
    
    Then we would all have somewhere warm to go where our money would
    be worth something...
    
    Just a thought. Speaking of patriotism, the most common license
    plate seen in North Conway New Hampshire has the words "Je me souviens"
    on it. Vendors down there have to pay extra for disposal of old
    clothing that the occupants of said cars have traded for new ones
    (in order to avoid paying duty and taxes.) I wonder if this behavior
    would change under a "new arrangement". I suspect not. It costs big
    bucks to run a private empire (read country). 
    
    Pat ( 8*) I think)

Jean,

I gather that you didn't get my meaning.  I somehow don't think that I
will vote YES, and there's only one other way to go.  You and I can vote NO, 
although for entirely different reasons.  I'm a Canadian and you're a Quebecois.
I sign over a blank cheque to you every 2 weeks.  You know, there's the
Canada Space Agency, Canadair, that new military base outside of Montreal,
..................  So you already have my personal number and I do trust
you to spend every cent of it on some worthwhile venture that I'm sure no
other province in Canada is worthy of! 

And as for the fact that I don't live here, actually I do live there as
I have some land in Quebec (boy there's a good investment!) and let me tell
you that all of the gains that you have made thanks to your Bills 22, 101 & 178,
will be wasted when/if you separate.  I guess that you could do business in
French with oh, St. Martinique, Dominican Republic, that little island somewhere
in the St. Lawrence and France might even do business with you.  Perhaps you
can all drive around in "souped" up Renaults, built right in La Belle Province.
Sure, you can do business in French with the United States, Canada, et al!!
Canadians will be real happy to buy products "Fabrique au Quebec"
I can judge how language laws have affected life in English Quebec, because
I do go there quite often.  And guess what, I have a real hard time trying to
buy something in a hardware that only has french signs.  So, I go across the
river where everything is bilingual and I buy it there!

I never liked Bourassa much, at least with Levesque you knew where he stood,
but I have to say that 'Bou' is now acting like a Canadian.  Bet you hate that
don't you.  I bet Parisseau will wish that he never aspired to be "La
Reigne" (yes the Queen) of Quebec, once he tries running things without all
of that Federal money coming in.
 
>>  If the question was "are you a Canadian?", this would lead to another
    one: what IS a Canadian?, What makes him different from a United Stater?
    
A Canadian is one who loves his/her country and knows that it is the 
best place in the world to live.  I for one want my kids to feel that way
and don't want them to have to go through this crap in their lifetimes.


Cheers

I'll be voting "Yes."

I think the Charlottetown arrangement provides for a reasonable amount of
flexibility in federal-provincial power-sharing, enough apparently to satisfy
Bourassa, without dismantling the federal government.  The new Senate could
turn out to be a real opening for reform of the way our democracy works,
offering a forum for regional (and other) concerns to be raised by elected 
representatives who hopefully wouldn't be slaves to party discipline the way 
MPs currently are.  There's also the chance to "empower" the native peoples, 
and give them a chance to get out of the corner we've painted them into.

The other reason for a "yes" vote, for me, is that I think this is the
last best chance for a reasonable consensus on constitutional reform for the
foreseeable future.  If it fails, the Bouchards and Mannings can only gain 
credibility.  In the short term, the status quo would continue, but having 
lost some legitimacy in the eyes of many, and with Quebec still very 
consciously outside the fold.  Longer term, who can say.  I think we'd be a 
weaker country, & political deterioration would continue.

I hope there's enough goodwill and resistance to irrationalism left in Quebec 
and elsewhere for a majority to put aside their detestation of the Prime 
Minister, nationalist dreams, resentments, etc., and accept a compromise, so 
we can get this mess behind us and put our political energies to more 
productive uses. 

-Stephen

    
>A Canadian is one who loves his/her country and knows that it is the 
>best place in the world to live.  I for one want my kids to feel that way
>and don't want them to have to go through this crap in their lifetimes.

	I totally agree will this statement, as 95% of the rest of Canadians
	would as well, its just too bad that the politicians wouldn't
	realize it and work for the people instead of their carreer
	aspirations.

	Charlie
	

    
    	The power struggle being promoted by Quebec politicians under the 
    	guise of a government "cultural/language" protection scheme is 
    	nothing more than a tactical ploy to be used as a bargaining tool
    	in negotiations with the federal government and a brainwashing tool
    	to be used in stirring up nationalistic sentiment in the young
    	people of Quebec. To accept it as a sincere reaction to a conceived
    	problem is to let yourself be manipulated by some very slick
    	propaganda.
    
    	Taken in this context, the Quebec politicians have nothing to lose
    	and everything to gain. If the Charlottetown agreement is accepted
    	they gain more power. If it is not accepted they will probably
    	vote yes for sovereignty and gain more power.
    
    	Voting yes in the referendum is bowing down to the demands of 
    	province that will eventually leave confederation anyways. It 
    	is inevitable. I am voting no.
    
    	Ben