Conference kaosws::canada

    First of all, to buy and license a car anywhere in North America, I
    believe you have to prove residence in the state/province where you
    register the motor vehicle (to get license plates).  You may also have
    a problem with not having a local driver's license.
    
    Then, due to different motor vehicle standards and requirements (for
    example California Emissions standards are tougher than anywhere else,
    and Canadian new cars require Daytime Running Lights), you would not
    easily be able to sell the cars in a different country, especially
    because of the registration issues.  However, Canadians can now buy
    USED cars in the U.S. if more than years old, and pay only minimal
    duty to bring them into Canada.  But again, you must be a Canadian
    citizen and buy it in the U.S.  After that, certain provinces like
    Ontario will require a mechanical inspection before it is licensed, and
    this includes any costs required to make the car compliant with
    Canadian motor vehicle regulations.
    
    So, my suggestion is forget it!  Rent a car in Vancouver, drive the
    scenic coastal route to LA, then return rapidly via I-5 in 12 hours.
    
    Otto.

    Can't comment on the cost to rent a car for a 1 way trip like this but
    I can't imagine it would be more than the loss you would take buying
    and selling a car just for the trip. Hertz Rent a Car advertizes "local
    and world-wide rentals", their information and reservation line in Toronto
    is +1 416 620 9620 since this number is at Hertz's Canadian head office
    I'm sure they can give you information that would apply to Vancouver as
    well. 
    
    It is not too difficult to buy a car in the US and import it to Canada
    but duties and taxes will probably not make it very economical. For the
    rules on importing cars to Canada call Canada Customs at 
    +1 416 973 8022 (that is the local number in Toronto)
    
    Don't even think about trying to import a used car from Canada to the
    US, at best it's a difficult proposition and usually it is just not
    allowed (especially to California). A guy I used to know brought his
    car with him when he came to Canada to go to school, when he went to
    move back a couple years later he was told that he could not reimport the
    car (a Honda Civic) to the US. Another friend, knowing he was to be 
    transfered to California soon, went there to buy his car and brought it 
    back here with him, unfortunately he was in an accident with the car before
    his transfer and the california emmisions sticker was affixed to the hood
    which was replaced at the body shop, had to sell the car when his
    transfer finally came through.

    Check with AVIS, and ask them for Digital rate.  Probably you
    could lift the drop off fee too.  (I am not so sure in your case
    because you will be dropping off in a different country.)
    
    Also I am not so sure about the Loss Damage Waiver + insurance 
    with AVIS in Canada.  (We don't have to pay them in U.S. when
    getting an AVIS Car.)
    
    But there is no harm done just asking.  Avis toll free number:
    1-800-331-1212

    I doubt whether Avis would waive the drop off charge on that
    route for any corporate customer, even DEC.
    
    Beware that in many countries, DEC have negotiated their own contract 
    with AVIS and thus have differnt AWD (corporate ID) numbers.  Under
    the Canadian contract, we don't pay LDW.  Note that PAI should only
    be waived for business use ... for private use, it is optional.
    
    Stuart

    RE: .0 + .4)           
    
    I have checked with Avis about the drop charge.  I was told that you
    could do 2 separate rental: LA -> Seatle -> Vancouver.  (I.e. you
    get a car in LA, drop it off in Seatle and get another car, then
    drop off in Vancouver.)  And I was also told that Avis might not allow
    drop off from Seatle to LA. (??)
    
    As for the rate: -- {US$31/day or US$155/week}    + $0.2 per mile
    
                     --  US$72/day                      unlimited mileage
    
                     --  US$202/week  700 miles free  + $0.3 per
                                                        (remaining) mile 
    
    Somewhere it was mentioned a $35 drop charge.  I can't remember if
    it is solely for the US$202/week rental, or for every rental.
    
    Note that you would get unlimited mileage if you return the car to
    the same place.  And you do need to pay tax (5 to 6% in LA?).
    
    
    I hope these info are accurate enough for your planning. But do
    double check with Avis if you really want to get a car from them.
    AND BRING ALONG YOUR BADGE.
    
    
    P.S.  I rented a car in LA on December.  It was a compact car and was
          around $29~.  I am not sure if I got a deal then or I was mis-
          informed now.  :)

I think, if I am able to drive back in twelve hours from Vancouver to LA, it
is worth to rent and return the car where I rented it!
Otherwise it is gonna be really expensive. Also since I am on a temporary
placement in Digital; I will not have my badge any more in April / May.

I also have the idea that car hire in LA will be cheaper since taxes are lower.

But I will check prices for Europeans (flight + car) since they have real 
bargains for non Americans.

Thanks for your replies

Lessee, the distance, as the crow flies, from L.A. to Vancouver is about
1125 miles.

The highway is fairly direct, but certainly more than 1200 miles.

You'll have a hard time covering that distance in less than 20-24 hours.

/john

    If you want to see the scenery, try the train (if it exists) or the
    big grey dog (Greyhound bus).
    
    Stuart

But if you take the train or the bus you can't go your own way!
And trains / busses aren't as usual as here!

Reinoud.

The Coast Starlight departs Seattle every morning at 10:40, arriving L.A.
at 7:40 the next evening.  Connecting bus leaves the Sandman Inn in Vancouver
at 6:45 am.  That's almost 37 hours travel time.

In the reverse direction, the Coast Starlight leaves L.A. at 9:50a, arriving
Seattle at 6:50p the next day.  The bus leaves at 7:15p and gets to the
Sandman Inn in Vancouver at 10:45p.  Also almost 37 hours.

In both directions it's daylight as the train goes along the coast south
of San Jose, as well as through the Pacific Northwest, and night through
northern California.

If you want a bedroom, reserve many, many months in advance.

Expect the train (with a bedroom and meals included) to cost about the
same as first class air travel.

/john

Since the trip will be in April I haven't decided yet. But I think a rental
car will be the best solution. Although returning takes a BIT more than 12 hours,
as long as they do not break down (as happened to me last week) and 
recovery trucks have to do thier jobs.

Reinoud Schut

    I agree with one of the previous notes - expect 18 hours LA - Seattle.
    
    My brother drove up from S.F. -> Vancouver for xmas.  Basically he
    phoned around some of the smaller rental companies until he found one
    with no drop charge.  (Drop charges vary proportional to distance - the
    normal drop charge SF -> Seattle was $50).
    
    Your best bet is to find one with no drop charge, you can always get
    some people to share gas expenses.
    
    I also agree with a previous note that few companies would have no drop
    charge to canada.  Hunt for a deal to/from Seattle.  bus to/from Vanc,
    which leaves 8-10 times a day, is around US $25 one-way.
    
    Pieter
    

    re.0 
    
    I work p/t in NH for Budget and I can offer some suggestions...
    
    - If you arrive in LA, rent and drop off in Seattle (since Seattle is
    near Vancouver).  
    - Take bus/train from Seattle to Vancouver
    - This is only if you are travelling one way.
    
    Reason:  Most, if not all, rent-a-car agencies do not allow a car for
    one way rental to be dropped off in Canada.  I know we do not allow it
    since there is no guarantee to get it back, but most importantly, the
    car is registered and insured in the US.  A rental agency cannot rent
    a car if the originating location is not the same location as where the
    rental agency is located; regardless if it is the same company but
    different country.  FOLKS:  READ YOUR RENTAL AGGREEMENTS!!! So many
    people are ignorant to the level of responsibility of renting a car.
    Some people actually think if they get a traffic ticket with a rented
    car, that the rental agency is responsible....let me tell ya...not
    the case...they have your address and they do go after folks who do
    not pay these tickets....another misnomer is accidents....YOU are 
    responsible...Loss Damage Waiver IS NOT INSURANCE!  
    
    If you do a major "round trip" ie, LA --> Vancouver --> LA; the rental
    agency will not mind at all since this car will be returned to the
    original location.
    
    Most rental agencies are franchaised (except major sites, like large
    airports) and the cars they buy are "their's" and part of their
    inventory.  Corporate locations such as airports, can offer these
    "one way rental cars" to customers that desire one way rentals.  Many
    times we receive a one way rental from Boston Logan Airport, and we
    are stuck with the responsibility of the car unless we can put a
    customer in it for a one way rental.  That's why you see many Budget
    cars with "Georgia" plates....corporate offices are in Marrietta and 
    this is where these "one way" trip cars are registered from.
    
    The reason for a high fee for one way rental is due to the receiving
    location's incurring cost to keep the vehicle and use it only for a
    one way rentals.  This happens only 20% of the time.
    
    Sorry to say, but most rental agencies do not waste a minute on stuff 
    like this....their in it for profit!
    
    Best case is to do a "round trip" and make sure you tell the agent you
    are going into Canada during the time of your rental.
    
    Hope this info helps...
    
    Rf
    

I think this information is quit clear.

If I rent a car I will rent and return it in the same place

But a question, 
What exactly is a loss damage waiver. 

And when are you totally insured if you cause an accident 
against any damage to any car involved including passengers.

Thanks
Reinoud. 

    When the rental company insures its car, to ensure that the premiums
    don't go through the roof, the insurance company sells the policy
    with a high "excess" or "deductible" ... ie the amount they won't
    pay in case of damage or other loss.
    
    Well, the rental company normally would hold you responsible for loss
    up to that amount ... which can be from 1000 to 5000 typically.  The
    rental company is willing to relieve you from that responsibility if
    you pay them Loss (or Collison) Damage Waiver.  In essence they are
    selling you insurance but since they aren't an insurance company, they
    cannot call it that!  It is a big bone of contention with lots and
    lots of people and sometimes with governments too, because it can
    be a source of good income for the rental company.
    
    Stuart

    Two nits:
    
    RE .13: Although the rental companies don't mind your crossing borders
    and then returning, cops mind, customs mind, and insurance companies
    might mind.  I rented a van in New Jersey, drove it up to Ottawa to
    fetch my "stuff", and returned.  I advised the rental agency of this
    fact and they informed me that anyone crossing the border with a rental
    car should really have a letter from the company stating their
    knowledge of this arrangement.  Don't mess with border cops on either
    side, the element of chance is a strong factor.
    
    RE .13: As I mentioned in a previous reply, some rental places in LA
    and SF have "good" one-way deals to Seattle.  My brother got a mid-size
    car in SF, drove it to Seattle for **no drop charge**.  You might have
    to phone around, but saving $100-200 would give you the freedom to
    enjoy Vancouver, and put some $ in your wallet to **spend in Canada**!
    
    Pieter
    

Well, this border crossing problem must be something specific to the U.S.
and Canada and specifically to Budget.

I've rented a car in Lyon, France, and returned it in Vienna, Austria,
as agreed in the contract with Avis.

The car was registered in Italy.

As it turned out, someone rear-ended me near N�rnberg, Germany, so the
Italian Car rented in France by an American in Germany (who happened to
speak fluent German) was quite an amusement for the Bavarian police.

So I actually ended up turning in the car rented in France that belonged
to Avis-Italy in Germany rather than in Austria as agreed, where I obtained
another car, registered in Germany, which I returned in Austria.

I've also rented a car in Stuttgart, Germany and returned it in Z�rich,
Switzerland.

And I've rented a car in Seattle and returned it in Vancouver.  The only
"note" required was the contract, and I didn't feel personally obligated
to say anything to Canada customs.

Both Avis and National would have allowed it, but National's rate was a
bit lower.  With the extra charge for non-local return, it cost more than
the bus fare for one person, but less than the bus fare for two people.

/john

Pacific Northwest Vacation	9-25 Sept 1988			Travel Plans 0.5

Our travel plans as of 1 September 88

 9 Sept	Friday

	TW  753	BOS SEA	 4:00p	 9:24p	 (STL 5:48p-7:13p)  Seats: 17-3/4

	Hertz Car (free 2-day weekend rental; 100fm/day+.32/mi) 68108762557

	Staying with Thomas & Christel Siebold

10 Sept	Saturday

	Thomas & Christel

11 Sept	Sunday

	Visiting the Browns, Olympia

	Turn in Hertz car, pick up National car, one-way to Vancouver
		National: 383269875 ($33/day .20/mile no drop charge) 5202000

	Staying with the Siebolds

12 Sept	Monday

	Drive to Vancouver, turn in one-way car, pick up Vancouver car
		Avis: 72009247US2  (noon)  $C180/week+$C30/day unlim mileage

	Drive to Lake Louise, Banff, Edmonton, Jasper, and back to Vancouver.

21 Sept	Wednesday

	Return Vancouver car, ferry to Victoria, pick up Victoria car
	Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay ferry runs hourly 7a-7p & 9p
		Avis: 72009295US1  (2p)		$C30/day unlim mileage

	The Beaconsfield Inn			(604) 384-4044
	998 Humboldt Street
	Victoria, B.C.				$C78 w/full breakfast

25 Sept	Sunday

	7L  601 YWH LKE  9:30a	10:15a		Seaplane

	Lake Union Air Service van to Sea-Tac	7L:   (206) 284-0300

	TW  336 BOS STL	 1:45p	 7:34p		Seats:	8-E/F
	TW  184	STL BOS	 8:37p	12:13a			6-E/F

Fare: TW KBE70NR $370.50, 7L Y $61 each
TW Record Locator YWOCYO John  6CIO2S Pam

Portable phone:
DTN 223-1144 / 508 493-1144 / 508 263-5433 will be forwarded,
or use following location-dependent numbers: 
In Seattle	206 948-2864 (direct)
   B.C.		604 644-7626 (dial-tone) 617 xxx-xxxx (number changed)
   Edmonton	403 446-7656 (direct)
   St. Louis	314 277-7626 (dial-tone) 617 xxx-xxxx (number changed)

    Ah but John,  you are talking Europe where all kinds of things are
    doable that you cannot even do between provinces of Canada or States
    of the Union!
    
    Rental companies in North America generally much more insular.
    
    

    Re-1:
    	Case in point...I was recently quoted a drop off charge that
    literally had me looking for somewhere to sit down. It was through
    Hertz. I wanted to pick up a car in San Francisco and drop it off
    in Santa Barbara about 6 hours drive to the south.
    
    	The drop off charge alone was..(sit down now, be warned)
    
    
                              $450.00 US!!!!
    
    Pat

I'm not talking Europe only though...

Seattle to Vancouver was a case in point.

The international bit isn't the problem.

As .21 points out, the drop charges are very high even within the same
state.  The rental companies do, you realize, have to pay someone to drive
the car back to the original location.  Though you'd think that there'd be
a similar number of people going A to B and B to A, it turns out that really
isn't true.

/john

Oeps,

Not so easy, renting a car !

Reinoud.