Conference kaosws::canada

Pat,
    
>     - snow spots and ski resorts

Lots!!! Whistler Ski Resort, less than 2 hours away, probably the best ski
resort in North America.  Also, decent skiing within 45 minutes of Vancouver.
Also excellent skiing on Vancouver Island within 2 hours of Victoria.

>     - average salary for a software engineer

Based on current job market: $25,000 - $45,000 Cdn. depending on experience.

>     - job opportunity 

Limited.  High unemployment (12-14%). Luckily, high-tech sector is much lower.

>     - the way of driving (is it as slow as in the U.S.)

Extremely poor! Highways limited to 100 km/hr (strictly enforced!). Worst
drivers in North America (I have driven in Montreal, Ottawa, Boston, Los
Angeles to name a few...).  Automobile Insurance is on average $1500/yr.
compared to $500-$600 in other Canadian cities - that says it all!

>     - sports facilities

You name it, it's here.  Greater Vancouver population now at 1.6 million.

>     - french community

Small and very subdued.  Still some bigotry against French language in B.C.
due to perception that Quebec rules Canada, and everything that goes wrong
either economically or socially is their fault.  (Moi, je suis ne a Montreal,
alors...).  ((I hate VT100's!!!)).

>     - relationship with other people and at work

Not sure what you mean.  People are reasonably easy-going and pleasant, but
there is a misconception that westerners are more open and friendly to
strangers than easterners.  In my experience the opposite is true.  Also,
people do NOT tend to socialize with workmates as much as in the east.

>     - differences between Victoria and Vancouver

Victoria is the seat of the provincial government, has a population of less 
than 150,000, is considered a 'retirement' community (therefore less social
activities for young people), but is prettier and has a more temperate 
climate.  It rains less, does not get as cold in winter (although Vancouver 
has never recorded a temperature below 0 F.) and is cooler in summer due to 
ocean breezes.  Average high temperature in Vancouver (summer) is 25 C. and 
winter lows are -5 C.

>     - best beaches and average water temperature during summer time
    
Beaches would not compare well with the Riviera, or California, and water 
temperatures rarely exceed 10 C. (COLD!!!)

And finally, overall cost of living examples: based on average income of 
$30,000 Cdn., a 3-bedroom house averages $160,000, a 2-bedroom apartment rents 
for $700, gasoline is $0.52/litre, milk is $4 for 4 litres, dinner for two 
with wine at a medium range restaurant is $50-$65, BMW's start at $35,000
a day of skiing at Whistler would average $75 including transportation and 
lunch, and taxes will kill you!

I am not trying to discourage you, although some of the preceding comments
may appear negative; better to know as much as possible!  It is also worth 
noting that Vancouver has a high crime rate compared to Montreal and Toronto.
This is attributed to a flourishing trade in illicit drugs, prostitution, and
a temperate climate which does not discourage transients and the poor from 
making their homes on the streets year round.

I still like living here!!!
Otto Hasibeder.

    My reply to Otto is Bah, humbug!
    
    My home town is still growing; it's growing with lots of pain.
    The local traffic is monitored with a picture taking radar set to
    =/- 2 KPH. They send you a request for contribution for the city
    where you drove too fast along with the picture. It's a frontal
    picture with your car and license number. The registered owner gets
    the bill for the infraction.
    
    So Americans drive slow? Any slower or craizer than Paris?
    
    /cal

    Hey Cal! (re: 68.2) - what do you mean by Bah, Humbug?
    
    I made no reference to Americans or Canadians driving slow, but
    by German Autobahn standards we probably do...
    
    So, in the language of the planet, "What's your beef?" :-)
    
    Otto.
  

    No Otto, not the slow drivers; it's the bad image of my home town
    that you pointed out. Good god, they put agressive Italian style
    drivers along side new, "by the book" drivers from the orient in
    Vancouver.
    
    Yes, any town with a surge of growth will sense the increase of crime
    but the beauty of the place shines through on those sunny days,
    no?
    
    /cal

    Well, Cal, you definitely are right on all counts.  I still won't
    take back anything I said however, since a major move such as our
    co-noter is contemplating should not be done without knowing as
    much as possible both good and bad!
    
    P.S. - How did you get to the U.S.?  I wouldn't mind working there,
    escpecially for DEC, but unless there is some magic or pull from
    high up, getting a Green card and/or International relocation is
    mighty tough! (GO FREE TRADE!!!)
    
    Otto.
    

    I know of the unemployment situation. Most of the firms were old
    world and they have a tendency to hire "educated folks" versus
    experienced folks. I started working in the states back in 1970's
    as a college professor, teaching vocational electronics.
    
    I ended up in Calif and with teaching jobs getting scarce, I ended
    up in industrial training. I joined DEC in Palo Alto some 4 years
    ago and relocated to Colorado. If you can afford the move, getting
    a job with DEC here in the springs is not.
    
    cal 

    I must have been tired. The last sentence should read getting a
    job with DEC in Colorado Springs is not that hard. Come visit and
    check us out.
    
    cal hoe

    Hi,
    
    no more informations, advice, new opinion on Vancouver for a 
    Frenchie ? ? ?
                
    Thanks for the previous notes.
    
    Waiting for new people advices.
    
    Bye, Pat.
    

re: .5
>    high up, getting a Green card and/or International relocation is
>    mighty tough! (GO FREE TRADE!!!)
    
Otto, can you (or anyone else) explain why getting a Green Card is tough?
    
Thnx,

Kip