Conference kaosws::canada

    I grew up in Vancouver! Vancouver is hell on the job market; influx
    of immigrants affects the availiable of high paying jobs. Educated
    immigrants are willing to get their start washing dishes, physical
    labor, etc. The turn over is high. The provincial government of
    the Social Credit party maintains an image of solvancy at the cost
    of large numbers of under or unemployed.
    
    DEC has a office in Vancouver but if you have any software experience,
    you won't have a hard time getting work. Try contracting. There
    is a lot of enterpenural [sp?] small companies that could use yur
    expertise.
    
    Vancouver today is quite congested. Public transportation is reasonable
    and on time. 
    
    A wonderful recreational offering
    from surfing to snow skiing is within minutes versus hours away
    in Toronto. Night life is a little conservative but is improving.
    Resturants of any gormet liking at a price you can afford. Housing
    costs is as in Boston area.
                
    
    /cal hoe

    I think you're wrong about the price of housing.  I spent a week
    there in April, and prices are much lower than in Boston or Toronto.
    One question you didn't answer - does the rain get you depressed.
    We had good weather when we were there, but someone in Toronto told
    me that I'd wind up on a psychiatrist's couch because of the weather.
    I don't think I'd mind.  I'd rather have more rain and less snow.

    You're right, housing prices has dropped since I visited two years
    ago. Talked to my folks and they confirmed that.
    
    Not so much rain but a almost a nonstop drizzle from mid september
    to january or february. Snow is wet and not too much of it. Average
    'bout 1-2" with some years without. Weather moderated by the Japanese
    current.
    
    /cal

    I grew up in Ontario, moved to Vancouver for 8 years and just returned
    again after a 9 month stint in Toronto.  
    
    First.. It is much cheaper to live in Vancouver... housing is less
    expensive, food and restaurants are less expensive...Corner stores
    here sell bouquets of flowers for $2.00!!!
    
    Second.. The weather is much different than Ontario and Boston.
    We get little or no snow... There is no snow removal equipment.
    Cars do not rust here... No SALT on the roads in winter.  I know
    this sounds impossible but it is true. You see ten year old cars
    here without a speck of rust.  The rain happens mostly in the winter
    and it is a steady dizzle with temperatures from 30 - 60 degrees
    F.  It's much better than the snow and salty slush of both Boston 
    and Toronto in my opinion... Besides when it is raining in Vancouver 
    it is snowing an hour and a half away at one of the best ski resorts 
    in North America...Whistler.  Also in the winter we do not experience 
    the same terrible dryness that you have in the east.  The summer
    on the other hand has moderate temperatures 60 - 80 with none of
    the oppressive humidity you experience and the temperature always
    drops at night.  We quite literally have no need for air conditioned
    cars and houses.  Another funny thing to get used to is no bugs...
    Most places you might live in Vancouver don't have screens on windows.
    The weather adds a beautiful lushness to the West Coast vegetation
    which is also quite different.
    
    In regard to the job market, if you are good you can always get
    a job.  Digital here has a very good SWS office..fairly senior people.
    However there is no were near the growth experienced in the east.
    If there is not a position here, there are lots of companies always
    looking for people with VAX experience.
    
    Vancouver as compared to Toronto or Boston is small.  Downtown is
    considerably smaller but we have real beaches even downtown.  Sailing,
    windsurfing, tennis (you can play outside in January), skiing, golf
    (almost year round) pretty well any outdoor activity imaginable
    is available in Vancouver.  Lots of emphasis on fitness...not very
    many overweight people.
    
    Another difference is commuting.... If you live farther than 45
    minutes from where you work people think you are nuts.  I live across
    the street from the beach (Kitsilano Beach - 5 minutes from downtown)
    and our office here is by the airport... it takes me 20 minutes
    in traffic!!  We don't have freeways like in the east here... there
    are a few but for the most part you travel on streets.  Public
    transportation is ok but not great .. Toronto has a much better
    public transportation system.
    
    Depending on the night life you like.... Vancouver has lots of
    wonderful reasonable restaurants as well as some good clubs but
    no where near the variety of clubs you would have in Toronto or
    Boston.  Thursday is the big night out here where as Friday and
    Saturday people are more often doing Beach BBQ's, camping, skiing
    or something like that.  If you are a single man I think that there
    are lots of single women (3:1 last I heard) in Vancouver. 
    
    All in all Vancouver has many points in favour in terms of lifestyle,
    however from my experience, Toronto and Boston have lots more career 
    opportunities if you are focused on career aspirations.  I moved
    back to Toronto 12 months ago for the sake of my career and came
    back 3 months ago because I missed the mountains and the flowers
    and the fresh air and the ocean......the lifesytle and decided I
    was much more interested in my life outside of the office than inside.
    
    Cheers from Lotusland
    
    Lorri 

    I can definitely second Lorri's remarks in the previous note.  I
    grew up near Vancouver and went to undergrad at UBC.  After a few
    years in California, I'm now in Seattle, WA, which is the nearest
    metropolitan area in the US to Vancouver.  One of the reasons
    I moved here was to be nearer Vancouver (which I prefer to California).
    
    Cost of Living:  Eating out is very cheap, if you're used to the
    outrageous prices in the US.  Housing in the city of Vancouver is
    much more expensive than the suburbs.  The suburbs are very
    inexpensive, particularly by Boston or CA standards!  Renting in
    the city (near where Lorri lives, for example) is not cheap; but
    those areas are the most "trendy".  Groceries are about the same
    as in the US, except that milk and dairy products are exorbitant
    (price supports, here).  Beautiful homes for a family of 4 can be had
    in Pitt Meadows, Port Coquitlam, etc., for CDN$160,000!  For the
    same, a spacious 3 bdrm. condo can be had near False Creek.  Or,
    an older house needing some work in the less affluent areas of
    Vancouver, proper.
    
    Weather:  I don't know how the Pacific Northwest and Western Canada
    ever got this ridiculous sterotype about the weather!  The only
    place where the weather is noticeably better is California.  Everywhere
    else has worse weather!  The summers in the east are so terribly
    muggy and hot (I spent part of a summer in DC, God forbid!); the
    winters are extremely cold!  Vancouver has mild winters, and excellent
    summers!  I lived in California and I must say I _prefer_ the summers
    in Vancouver/Seattle to those in California!  The temperature is
    just right, with a mild breeze near the water to cool you on a sunny
    day.  And the temperatures don't plunge at night like in CA!  There
    are plenty of bright sunny days in summer, at least as many as back
    east.  Winter has a lot more rain.  But annual precipitation in
    this area is actually less than in New York City!  It does tend
    to drizzle; rarely any storms (CA suffers from bad storms every winter).
    It's quite possible for two weeks to go by without the sun being
    visible; but it's not likely it will rain continuously for those
    two weeks--there'll be breaks!  Snow is rare.  If some falls, people
    just ignore it and it usually goes away in a day or so. 
                                                   
    Jobs:  I don't know much here, since I've never looked for a job
    in Vancouver.  I have to say there aren't as many opportunities
    there as there are in Seattle.  That's one of the reasons I left
    Canada (I also wanted to go to a "famous" grad school, as is the
    dream of every thoughtful Canadian schoolboy, though).  But there
    are plenty of small companies in the Vancouver area.  Friends of
    mine have been able to get solid technical work in such companies.
    
    Quality of Life:  This is really the best part!  The air is really
    clean and fresh there!  There are so many things to do; places to
    see; sights to explore!  When you consider how many cities in the
    US have comparable populations and how barren they are (Phoenix,
    somehow, comes to mind), you really appreciate what's been accomplished
    in Vancouver!  One of the best things in Vancouver, is the selection
    of restaurants.  Many people (natives of Hong Kong) think the dim
    sum in Vancouver is the best in the world (because ingredients are
    not adulterated with ersatz materials)--interested parties should
    direct their tastebuds to the Flamingo on Fraser!  There are very
    authentic Singaporean restaurants there (two at Broadway and Cambie);
    something I've never experienced in any other city in North America!
    And the list goes on and on...!  
    
    Other:  Preceeding notes have outlined the unparalleled physical
    beauty of Vancouver as well as the ample winter recreation available
    very nearby.  It's possible to go skiing after work on a weekday
    in Vancouver!  (Night skiing at Grouse Mountain; prepare yourself
    for a spectacular view of the city lights, the likes of which no
    other ski run in the world can match.) 
    
    Well, I hope I've allayed any fears you may have.  As I said, I
    deliberately moved to Seattle, as it was near Vancouver; so I'm
    trying to go, too!
    
    By the way, I'm at otello::looi (since the net db isn't updated).
    
    Mark.
    

    Have to inject this somewhat sour note.  Compared to most U.S.
    cities, Vancouver would likely not appear unusual, but compared
    to almost any other Canadian city, it has one of the highest crime
    rates (opinion, I admit, not fact).  I live in downtown Toronto
    and I'd be hard pressed to think of an area where I or my wife would
    feel unsafe walking at night.  I don't think this is true of Vancouver.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong -- in case I had the opportunity
    to live in Vancouver, I'd love to be able to convince my wife that
    she'd feel safe there.  Right now, after a couple of visits there,
    she has no desire to return.
                                        
    Cheers,
    
    Pat-who-likes-everything-else-about-Vancouver-except-the-rain.
    

    I live near Toronto, and have done most of my life, however I have
    also spent a fair amount of time in Vancouver.
    
    In '79 and '80 I was splitting my time between Vancouver and Toronto
    , spending two weeks in Vancouver, then two weeks in Toronto, etc.
    Without exception, the weather was better in Vancouver than Toronto.
    Maybe I got lucky, but even so there is nothing like leaving Toronto
    in mid-February, where there is mixed cold, ice, and muddy slush,
    with the cross-country season already over, and then arriving in
    Vancouver to 10c weather, sunshine, flowers, green grass, etc.,
    and then on the weekend heading off to some fantastic skiing.
    
    One observation, Vancouverites don't seem to know what to make of
    snow in the city. I was installing a system in a grain elevator
    and it a small (1 or 2 mm) of snow fell. The people there honestly
    wanted to shut down and go home early, after all they assured me that
    snow on the West coast was very different from Toronto snow. "It's
    slippery here when it snows!". WOW! :-) I guess it really doesn't
    snow very much there.
    

    I feel much more safe in Vancouver than Toronto.  In my view, Toronto
    is a big city with the population to go along with it.  Cerainly
    there are areas in Toronto where I do not feel safe... Jarvis and
    Wellesley???? other deep dark hooker ridden areas... even walking
    down Yonge street at night I clutch my purse very tightly.  I am
    also not sure how many people would come to your aid in the event
    of trouble.  A friend of mine was recently mugged at a bus stop
    in T.O. at 7:00 at night and despite her screams no one came to
    her rescue.  
    
    Vancouver on the other hand has a small town sort of mentality.
    People say hello while walking by on the street without needing
    a phychiatrist's certificate to justify their sanity!!! There are
    not many places in Vancouver where I do not feel entirely comfortable
    walking at night.  
    
    In any city, Vancouver being no exception,  one must employ common
    sense at night.  Dark alleys at night while walking and alone in
    certain areas is simply not wise.  I truly believe this is true
    anywhere.
      

 I joined DEC-Japan on 4th of Nov. last year after worked with 
B.C. Hydro for 5 years. I and my wife miss Vancouver very much.

 We are still talking about good days in there. We lived near
Vancouver General Hospital where we can go to the public market
quite easily. Especialy, my wife (Chihiro), her most favorite
place in Vancouver. Fresh fishes, vegitables, meats, daily 
products...etc... Nice place to go even in winter.
 Once we went to the restraunt "Brigde" was very nice for
her birth-day. And there are lots of nice sea food restraunts.

 I worked for Information Centre of I.S. department in B.C. Hydro.
There was a few VAX in GAS division I've never touched.
I looked after Finacial system and Billing system mostly using
SAS RAMISS-II and PL/1 in real IBM world.

Bob (R.J) Steel was a I.S. head ,Ed Watson was a End User support
division head and my Boss was Gary Watson. I still remember and
have a information about B.C. Hydro (Britsh Columbia Hydro and
Power authority). Let me know if you need some information.

 Anyhow I and my wife want to visit again some day in the future
with our child (expect in middle of December).

 See you guys and gals ,how's Canuks doing these days.
    

       NAME: AKIO HASEGAWA
  JOB TITLE: SOFTWARE SPECIALIST II
   LOCATION: TOKYO JAPAN / SWS ADVISORY
   VMS Mail: TKOV51::AHASEGAWA
   Customer: Tokyo Electric Power Company
               Largest Power Company in the world
               Running VAX-11/780 x 2 for the Video Tex.(NAPLIPS)

             Tokyo Gas Company
               Installing VAX-11/785, VAX-11/780, VAX8650, VAX8800
                 for the mapping system by TUMSY their own mapping software. 

    I shall be in Vancouver for the month of August. Can anyone tell me
    what the weather shall be like and if there ar any 'tourist' like
    things happening then.
    
     Can anyone tell me the comparison between eating out and the price of
    sports goods between Vanc. and Boston.
    
    
    regards ... Stevie
    

I'll also be in Vancouver in August, but for 3 days.  Any suggestions on 
restaurants are greatly appreciated.  I like just about anything at any 
price from inexpensive ethnic to expensive continental.  I also understand 
Vancouver is a great place for Chinese food. 

Now for my biggest dilemma -- maximizing my one day in Victoria.  I am an 
avid gardener and want to spend a fair amount of time at Bouchart (spell?) 
Gardens, as well as take in the Empress Hotel (I can skip high tea.) and the 
Museum, if possible.  I am lodging in Victoria so I would have to ferry 
back and forth the same day.  

I figure my choices are:

	- Taking a bus tour originating in Vancouver, which includes the 
	  ferry trip.  These tours stop at the gardens, but it may not be a 
	  long enough stop for me.

	- Taking the ferry to Victoria and renting a car there.  I have not
	  idea as to the logistics of the Ferry dock, car rental and the
	  gardens.  Nor do I know anything about what it's like to drive in
	  Victoria (or park).

	- Taking the ferry to Victoria and going on public transportation
	  wherever.  I found another not that indicated you could get to
	  the gardens by bus.  I have no idea what the transporation is 
	  like between the ferry dock and downtown.

Any comments on how the above options will/will not best meet my nees are 
greatly appreciated.  Also, if anyone knows what the earliest and latest 
departure times from/to Vancouver are, please let me know.  Also, I can 
either go to Victoria on a Friday or a Saturday.  I figure everything will be 
less crowded on Friday so that't the current plan.

I leave next week for Anchorage to beginning my trip, so comments needed soon.  
Thanks for the help.

Barbara

If you don't mind renting a car, you might want to rent a car in Vancouver.
Then you go about Victoria as you please.

The earliest ferry is about 07h00 and the latest is about 22h00.  Times 
change depending upon season and expected load.  In any event you should
arrive at Tsawassen (spelling is wrong I'm sure) about 30 minutes before 
sailing time to make sure you get on the one you want.  Ferries run about 
every hour.  Best to check once you get to Vancouver.

The ferry dock on Vancouver Island is Sidney.  Butchart Gardens is just
off the highway from Sidney to Victoria, so it's probably convenient
to stop in on the way to or from the ferry.

If you want a little longer tour of Vancouver Isalnd, you might want to 
look at making a big loop from Vancouver to Sidney, to Victori, up the
Malahat highway to Nanaimo and then Nanaimo to Horseshoe Bay which is in
North Vancouver.  Nanaimo is nothing special, but the drive up the Island
is very nice.  It's 60 - 90 minutes from Victoria to Nanaimo.

Regards,

Garry

Just last Thursday evening I had dinner at the Water Street Caf� in Gastown.
Excellent food; I had the grilled halibut special.  Dinner for two with a
bottle of wine was $62.76 plus $9.00 tip.

We sat outdoors, right at the corner of Water Street and (I think) Abbot.
But it may have been a block over.

Indoors is nice, too, with large windows and a "grand staircase" coming
down from the restrooms.

/john

    For August, expect temps in the range 60-80F (15-25C).  There are lots
    of things to do - I'd suggest you check out Tourism BC @ (604) 683-2000
    or 1-800-683-7867 or 1-800 663-6000.
    
    Activities can include but are obisouly not limited to :-
    	- anything to do with the beach or water (though personally I find
    the water a little cool for swimming
    	- hiking/mountain biking - there are great trails within 1 hr's
    drive
    	- eating - lots of ethnic restaurants in Vancouver; check out
    Chinatown, Commercial Drive (Italian), the West End (everything), Main
    and 49th (Indian), 4th Ave @ Burrard (everything).
    	- shopping - remember if you're not a Canadian resident you can get
    a rebate on GST when you leave
    
    For Steve who will be here awhile try and buy a discount book for
    restaurants from some place like London Drugs or shopper's Drug Market. 
    Also Whistler (90 minutes drive away has a Classical Music Festiival
    for the month of August and you might also be able to sneak in some
    skiing if your interested).
    
    Enjoy Vancouver,
    
    	Owen
    someplace like London Drugs
    
    	Owen

    Hello,
    
    I'll be in Vancouver in October. I'd like to rent a car and as far as I
    know we'll get the best rates at AVIS with the AVIS Wizard Card (which
    I have).
    
    From some other notes I got the following infos (concerning AVIS):
    
    - best rates
    - free CDW
    - AWD is A/A 126280
    - Mini-Vans don't get special DEC rates
    
    Some of the notes were about 2 years old. Are these infos still valid ?
    
    Where are AVIS rental stations in Vancouver (beside the airport station
    and preferably near Robson Street) ?
    
    Is there anything else that I should take care of ?
    
    Thanx in advance.
    
    
    
    Ciao,
    
    oli

    Yes, AVIS is still the preferred Car Rental for DEC. The AVIS Rental
    booth is on the lower level of the Vancouver Airport, which is where
    you will pick up your luggage.
    
    Advanced reservations are recommended, especially if you want a
    minivan. I assume you are staying on Robson Street ??
    
    Have a great time
    Brian
    
    PS. Bring some rain gear !!!

There is an Avis location downtown beside one of the major hotels ...
And, you can rent there and return at the Airport if you want without
drop charge which is handy.

Stuart

    Hello,
    
    I have some more questions ;-) concerning my Vancouver trip:
    
    1. Will there be any events in Vancouver or the Lower Mainland between
       October 15th and October 24th that I shouldn't miss ?
    
    2. Where is the best location in Vancouver to buy PC Hardware and 
       Software ?
    
    3. What is "cheapest way" to get from Vancouver (Downtown) to Victoria ?
       I'm not sure whether I will take a rental car or not. If I don't I
       have to find another way to get to Victoria.
    
    Many thanx in advance.
    
    
    
    Ciao,
    
    oli

    I can't help you on your first two questions, but the cheapest way to
    get from Vancouver to Victoria (other than hitchhiking and swimming :-)
     ) is with the bus. I think it's the Pacific Coach Lines (at least 
    it used to be called that ) that runs from downtown Vancouver to 
    downtown Victoria hourly. Price I would imagine somewhere around 
    $15.00.
    
    helmut

    Hello,
    
    it's me again ;-) .
    
    I'm planning my next trip to Vancouver and BC in summer '94 and I have
    two questions (for the moment ;-)) :
    
    1. Are there any special events between July 1st and August 31st in
       Greater Vancouver or Vancouver Island (which I shouldn't miss or
       which eventually will affect the availability of hotel rooms like
       large expos etc.) ?
    
    2. When will the Commonwealth Games take place in Victoria ?
    
    As usual ...
    
    Thanx in advance.
    
    Ciao,
    
    oli

Hi Oli,

These are the major events, there are a few other smaller events taking
place outside and inside Vancouver but nothing that would effect 
accomodations.

Jul 1		Canada Day Celebration
		Canada Place

		Salmon Festival
		Richmond

		Du Maurier Jazz Festival
		Vancouver
		(Lots a great acts for this one)

Jul 3		Gastown Grand-Prix (Bike Race)
		Gastown

Jul 15-17	Vancouver International Folk Fest
		Vancouver

Jul 21-24	International Sea Festival
		Vancouver

Jul 30,		Symphony of Fire
Aug 3,6,10	English Bay Harbour
		(This is worth seeing!)

Aug 12-14	Abbotsford International Airshow
		Abbotsfort Airport
		(Another MUST-SEE if you like Airshows)

Aug 18-28	Commonwealth Games
		Victoria

If you want any more information on these events, or other stuff inside B.C.,
drop me an E-mail and I'll see what I can do.

Cheers,
Dave.

Does anyone know of a Hard Rock Cafe located in Vancouver? I'm going to be
in Vancouver at the end of August for 1 or 2 days and a colleague asked me
to buy a Hard Rock Cafe T-Shirt, if there is one in Vancouver.

Thank's for any pointers.

Regards

Stefan�

    Re. 24
    
    Yup
    
    Hard Rock Cafe address is:
    
    	686 W Hastings St
    	Phone (604) 689-0995
    
    
    Owen. 

    Everything is on Hastings St. _everything_

    I've been to Vancouver in '92, '93 and '94 but I didn't notice
    anything concerning the Hard Rock Cafe (ads, Visitor Guide etc.)
    Is it new or did I just miss it ?
    
    BTW, I plan to visit Vancouver from October 2nd until October 9th and 
    tried to get two rooms at the Sheraton Landmark on Robson St. They told me
    that they are completely booked on October 5th and 6th ! Are there any
    events in this week in Vancouver ?
          
    Do we (Digital) have any prefered hotels (with special rates ;-)) in
    Vancouver ?
    
    Choo!
    
    oli

    I think they used to be on 4th Ave so probably moved recently.
    
    VTX TRAVEL under Vancouver indicates the Delta Pacific Resort and the Delta
    Place providing a discount.  I would just phone the Hotel and see what
    sort of Corporate Rate they provide.
    
    In general there's always some sort of convention on somwwhere in
    Vancouver though I don't specifically know what's on on Oct 5-6.
    
    Some of the Vancouver WWW pages might help - start with
    http://www.wimsey.com
    
    	Owen.

Does anyone know which is the best way to go to Kelowna, starting from
Vancouver? I thought of taking a bus (Greyhound?), a train or, if it's not
to expensive, a car.

Stefan�

    Hi,
    
    I only know the Blue Horizon Hotel on Robson St. from strolling along the
    Robson St. It looked not too bad. Does anybody have experience with
    this hotel ?
    
    Choo!
    
    oli

Are there any car rental services, like Hertz, Avis ect. in Canada (Vancouver),
which are giving discounts to Digital employees?

Stefan�

    Avis is the car rental agency Digital Canada uses.  Phone Avis Central
    Reservations to see what their best rate is.
    
    Occasionally the other companies such as Tilden, Budget have specials
    on that can be much better than any of the corporate discounts - all
    depends on time of year and what the real demand is.
    
    	Owen.

    Did you folks in Vancouver experience an earthquake early on Thursday 
    evening (may 2nd, 1996) ?
    
Just curious....
    
    Stephen

    Yup - 9:04pm PDT 2 May, 1996.  5.3 on the Richter scale I think. 
    epicentre was in Sedro Wooley, approx 40 mi northeast of Seattle, WA. 
    Lasted about 10 seconds in North Vancouver.
    
    Check http://www.geophys.washington.edu/QUAKE/localeq.txt for more
    details.
     
    It was near the surface, thus the tremors were felt in Seattle and
    southern BC (Vancouver Island, lower mainland and Okanagan).  One radio
    report I heard this morning said after shcoks have occurred and a
    larger shock is being predicted in four days (I don't know how they
    know that!!)
    
    Down in Seattle the baseball game was postponed due to the tremor.
    
    	Owen