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Conference turris::digital_unix

Title:DIGITAL UNIX(FORMERLY KNOWN AS DEC OSF/1)
Notice:Welcome to the Digital UNIX Conference
Moderator:SMURF::DENHAM
Created:Thu Mar 16 1995
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:10068
Total number of notes:35879

9387.0. "Making netscape news usable" by APACHE::CHAMBERS () Thu Apr 03 1997 17:23

When run on DUnix, netscape's news window does something that makes it
all but unusable:  It insists on abbreviating all the newsgroups names
to the first few and last few characters.  Thus, when you expand the
"comp" node, you get a whole lot of things called "comp...oup)", with
no way to tell what you're looking at.  And when you expand one of these,
you get a bunch of names like "comp...nce", "comp...isc", and "comp...oup)",
which is less than helpful.  Well, sure, you can try opening up a 
newsgroup at random, then open an article at random, and after a bit
of poking around at several articles, you can eventually deduce the
name of the newsgroup.  But this means that it takes hours (or days)
to locate a specific newsgroup.  If you know the *exact* spelling of
its name, you can find it, of course.  If not, it seems you're outa
luck.

After digging around in lots of documentation and FAQs, I eventually
gave up and tried in on the NT system sitting behind me.  Lo and behold,
it displays the entire newsgroup names!  So of course I tried grovelling
around in the config windows to spot some difference that would explain
it.  Total, utter failure.  There seems to be nothing configurable that
controls it.  But they show different behavior.  I even tried several
different levels of netscape on DUnix, to no avail; they all abbreviate
the newsgroup names, even when there's lots of white space to the right.
So it looks like someone or something has configured it to run that way;
I just don't have a clue as to how it was done.

Does anyone know how to get netscape to display the full newsgroup names?
Or should I just give it up and tell people to boot up NT instead?

(This does seem like a particularly perverse behavior.  It's easy to
think of lots of ways that one might abbreviate newsgroup names; using
the first and last few chars is be a large margin the worst choice of
any scheme that I can think of.  It turns out that these chars show
very little variation across the set of names.  I wonder why the nice
folks at netscape would pick the worst of a list of alternatives? ;-)
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9387.1How to see the full name...QUARRY::reevesJon Reeves, UNIX compiler groupThu Apr 03 1997 18:0414
There's probably an X resource or two that can be set to get things to come up
this way, but it *is* possible to see the whole newsgroup name.

1. Widen the newsgroup name pane (using the little box between it and the
   article pane).  This will give you lots of white space on the right in
   the newsgroup name pane.

2. Stretch the name field: on the header above the newsgroup pane, position
   your cursor between the "Name" and check-mark fields.  The cursor should
   change to an inverted "L".  Stretch the name field to the desired width.

Or use a decent news reader; it's common knowledge that Netscape is one
of the worst.  tin and xrn are popular alternatives.  Maybe this has
improved in V4.0bugs2 (as a friend called it).
9387.2LEXSS1::GINGERRon GingerFri Apr 04 1997 10:119
    Ive come to like netscape as a news reader.
    
    The thing I cant figure out is the little red flag icon in the article
    listing. There is a red flag and a green diamond. You can click the red
    flag on and off, but I cant for the life of me figure out what it
    does.
    
    Anyone have a clue?
    
9387.3APACHE::CHAMBERSFri Apr 04 1997 11:2348
> 2. Stretch the name field: on the header above the newsgroup pane, position
>    your cursor between the "Name" and check-mark fields.  The cursor should
>    change to an inverted "L".  Stretch the name field to the desired width.

Hey, that's really cute!  I'd sort of seen that funny little icon, of course,
but it didn't register as anything significant, because it doesn't really look
like anything recognizable.  I'm pretty sure I'd never have guessed that the
trick was something like that.  I wonder why they did something so cryptic,
when elsewhere on the same screen are the little "stretch buttons" that so
much X software has used from the beginning?  I guess someone had a "better"
idea, but a totally nonintuitive one (at least to my feeble mind).

As for finding a better news reader; I was interested in giving netscape's a
chance to show what it could do.  Maybe it's crummy; maybe it's the best one
around (for my purposes); I don't know.  This silly thing with the truncated
newsgroup names had so far put it into the "utterly unusable" category.  But
on NT it worked better, so I thought I'd investigate.

One thing that seems clear is that their documentation didn't help in the 
least.  It has the usual problem with documentation.  If you have a question
of the form "Gee, I'd really like to use a `foo bar' command; I wonder what
it does?" then the documentation will give you an answer.  But I don't ever
seem to have a questions in that form.  What I always want to know is "I'd
like to do such-and-such a task; I wonder what sort of tool might do (part
of) it?"  The "such-and-such" is generally an English phrase, and you can't
usually find it in the documentation (unless you already happen to know by
some magic where it is, in which case you don't need to find it).

This is why the VMS help stuff is so useless, of course, and if it weren't
for man's -k option (which doesn't work all that well either), Unix's manuals
would be equally poor.  Thus, the other day I wanted to know, for several
machines, "How would a non-guru user discover what print queues will work 
on a given machine?"  On Unix, it wasn't easy, but I did eventually find 
various clues in the man pages that would lead from the keywords "print"
and "queue" to the "lpq" command. On VMS, an hour of digging in the help 
stuff turned up no clues whatsoever; I eventually had to ask someone who 
had it written down on a piece of paper, and I don't consider that to be 
a really good piece of advice to give to a customer.

In the news case, I did a bit more poking around in Netscape's online docs, 
and even knowing the answer, I couldn't find it.  Sigh.

As for the red flags, I did find some things about it in the netscape help
pages.  Select Help..Handbook, and from there, go to the "Mail, News, and
Bookmarks" page.  Then use Edit..Find to look for "flag", and you'll find 
some comments on how it's used.  It does look somewhat complicated; maybe
I'll experiment and see if I can get it to do anything useful.

9387.4How I use flagsQUARRY::reevesJon Reeves, UNIX compiler groupFri Apr 04 1997 16:3013
(in the also admittedly poor Netscape mail reader, that is):

If I've got a mail message that I know will need further action, just not right
now (specifically, it provides input to a monthly newsletter), I check its
flag; when I'm ready to deal with it, I use "select flagged messages" and
the navigation commands under "Go" to pick those messages out of a much
larger folder.

Given that news messages only hang around a short time, it seems less useful
there; the traditional use of "flags" in news is to mark only a few messages
of interest, then mark the rest of a given newsgroup "read" and step through
the interesting messages, but I don't think the Netscape newsreader meshes
well with this model.