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Conference hydra::dejavu

Title:Psychic Phenomena
Notice:Please read note 1.0-1.* before writing
Moderator:JARETH::PAINTER
Created:Wed Jan 22 1986
Last Modified:Tue May 27 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2143
Total number of notes:41773

2050.0. "Karma Cards" by DKAS::GALLUP (You are what you think.) Fri Jun 02 1995 10:31

I had a very powerful experience last night, and I wanted to share it in 
this forum.  (Sorry, this is a little long.  I think I just want to get it
all out of me into the open!)

To give you a little context, I've always been one to dabble in interpretation
whether it be dreams, cards, astrology, etc.  I do this mainly for guidance
regarding qualities and attitudes I should hold, rather than searching for 
concrete answers.  Mostly I do it for fun.

I have many tarot decks, but recently I purchased a deck called Karma Cards.
They are centered around astrology with 12 cards each in the categories:
Planets, Signs and Houses.  Basically a person asks an Outcome or Action
question, shuffles them into the cards, turns over the top card in each 
pile and reads across the pile.  Then interprets the cards.  

This deck has proven to be extremely powerful even to the point of uncanny.  

One woman used them the other night, asking about 10 different questions. 
This woman has a lot going on with her family, and consequently with every
reading she did, the 4th House card appeared....every time, no matter 
how much she shuffled.

Last night I was on the phone with my boyfriend.  Patrick is man with whom I've
found a very deep, inner connection and with whom there are very few barriers. 
In addition, we are part of a community which is dedicated to men and women
having successful relationships -- and dedicated to bringing clarity regarding 
what works to make relationships successful to the world.  So, we come 
from a common bond about knowing what the responsibilities of man and what the
responsibilities of a woman are to maintaining a successful relationship. And
not to tread on the partner's territory.

I was telling Patrick about the Karma Cards last night, and he wanted to 
ask it some questions.  So, I cleared my mind, picked up the cards to shuffle
and let his questions channel through me (over the phone) to the cards.  I 
was clear that I didn't want my perception to interfere with his readings.

The cards answers to him were VERY clear.  About his career, about his life,
about his inner belief in himself.  I'm going away to a retreat this weekend
and he asked a question regarding what to expect when I got back.  The cards
were clear.  He went away to take another call, and so as I waited I asked the
cards the question about what I was going to bring back to our relationship from 
this retreat:  The same SIGN and HOUSE cards came up, with a different 
PLANET card.  My planet card directly complemented the card he had chosen.  I
am going to bring back exactly what he is going to receive.

At this point the cards started feeling very powerful, as if with each question,
I could feel a card "fighting" it's way to the top of the pile.  Finally, 
he asked a question regarding the two of us and the cards felt really heavy.
I laid the cards out, looked at them, and the reading was bizarre. It didn't 
make sense at all.  Finally I looked at the cards and said:

	The cards are refusing to answer your question. They say it
	is not your responsibility to be concerned with this question
	regarding our relationship, and you need to stay out.  

As I said it, it felt like the statement wasn't coming from me, but rather,
being passed through me.  I also felt this intense pressure in my chest.  On
the other end of the phone, Patrick said that he had just seen a shadow move
across his wall and sink into the floor.  He all of a sudden felt a "presence"
and a chill.....and he, too, felt the intense pressure in his chest.

Last night erased any doubt in my mind as to the power which is out there.
And the power I have to channel this information to the person seeking it.  

And it left me feeling almost somewhat frightened.  What exactly did we 
experience?  

Kath
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
2050.1Karma CardsSTOWOA::FREELY::hbairdTue Jun 06 1995 14:421
Where do you get the card?
2050.2DKAS::GALLUPYou are what you think.Wed Jun 07 1995 09:135

I bought the cards at Border's Book Shop in Framingham, MA.

kath
2050.3You have a gift!MKOTS1::SCOTTFri Jun 09 1995 16:0811
    I am intrigued.  If you have let the CHristian church scare you into
    thinking that astrology and tarot are evil then you could explain the
    shadow as that of a "demon" or "the devil" himself. I however don't buy
    that stuff so I would prefer to think that you have had an encounter
    with the Supreme  ( God, Allah, the Universe, whatever).  You mentioned
    that you have a past of interpretation so it could very well be that
    you have simply honed (is that spelled right?) your skills and moved to
    a higher level.  Try asking the cards what I can do to help my
    mother-in-law overcome her mental problems.
    
    Tia
2050.4GIDDAY::SETHIMr. SidewinderMon Jun 12 1995 23:439
    Hi,

    Karma cards, what a novel idea !!!  What does the word Karma mean ?  It
    means furtive action and is not connected with sharing with God, hence
    I find it a novel idea it has no meaning at all.
    
    Regards,
    
    Sunil
2050.5DKAS::GALLUPYou are what you think.Tue Jun 13 1995 09:5111

I just looked "Karma" up in the dictionary and it says:

	Fate; Destiny
	The total cummulative affect of a person's actions and conduct
		during the successive phases of his existance.

It totally interests me that it's based on astrology.

kath
2050.6CSC32::KACHELMYERDave Kachelmyer, U.S. Digital Services-MCSTue Jun 13 1995 18:327
    I've had this deck for a while and I like it; especially the ease of
    use.
    
    (I don't personally pay much mind to what Karma may or may not be,
    neither.)
    
    Dave
2050.7GIDDAY::SETHIMr. SidewinderTue Jun 13 1995 20:1531
    Hi Kath,

    >I just looked "Karma" up in the dictionary and it says:

    >        Fate; Destiny
    >        The total cummulative affect of a person's actions and conduct
    >                during the successive phases of his existance.

    I am an Indian and the word "Karma" comes from my language and culture.
    I was born an Indian and have followed my faith since childhood and
    have spent quite a lot of time read the Veda's to understand my faith.
    Just because some "dictionary" says that above does not mean that it's
    correct, many times I have read things by authoritive people with Phd's
    and a like and have found them to be nothing more then opinion based
    upon their limited understanding and nothing more.  

    It's funny how the western nations who have the least knowledge about my 
    language, culture and religion proceed to tell me and my fellow Indians 
    what is right and what is wrong and how to understand our culture etc. 
    I try to remember Swami Vivekananda's teachings and one thing that
    comes to mind is:

    "An elephant knows his path and will not be deterred by puppies
    barking".

    Fate and destiny have nothing to do with "Karma" and is a lies.  In
    fact the whole explanation is a lies and is there to mislead people.
    
    Regards,
    
    Sunil
2050.8TNPUBS::PAINTERPlanet CrayonTue Jun 13 1995 20:4137
    Re.7
    
    Hi Sunil,
    
    >Just because some "dictionary" says that above does not mean that it's
    >correct, many times I have read things by authoritive people with Phd's
    >and a like and have found them to be nothing more then opinion based
    >upon their limited understanding and nothing more.  

    Well yes, having both studied and read a bit of the Hindu texts myself, 
    I'd definitely have to agree with you there.  Indeed though, we *are* 
    stuck with reference material here including the "American Heritage 
    Dictionary" which can only at best provide us with a very limited (and
    sometimes even incorrect) definitions of such incredibly complex subjects 
    as 'karma', etc.  We also realize though, that it is a starting point 
    from which to launch into a topic, and not necessarily the last and
    final authority on the subject.
    
    >It's funny how the western nations who have the least knowledge about my 
    >language, culture and religion proceed to tell me and my fellow Indians 
    >what is right and what is wrong and how to understand our culture etc. 
    
    I sincerely doubt she meant to start a national incident here.  DEJAVU
    really isn't that kind of a conference...in here we all tend to have
    more of a willingness to share, learn from each other, and grow, rather 
    than to debate and state absolutes to anyone.
    
    >Fate and destiny have nothing to do with "Karma" and is a lies.  In
    >fact the whole explanation is a lies and is there to mislead people.
    
    Then perhaps you can explain here what it really is.  Enlighten us, if
    you will.  (;^)  Create your own topic on "Karma" if you wish to,
    though there may be already one in here somewhere that you might want
    to use as well.
    
    Cindy
2050.9Just making a point GIDDAY::SETHIMr. SidewinderTue Jun 13 1995 21:1131
    Hi Cindy,
    
    I was not trying to start anything but just trying to state that it was
    incorrect to just assume that some "dictionary" is correct.  It reminds
    me of the Budha's teachings some what.
    
    A person should question even the wise.
    Age of a person does not determine how wise a person is.
    Some books are not even good enough for the dung heap and should be
    burnt.
    
    I rememeber the above when I see such gross inaccuracies that not only
    are misleading but give a negative impression of others.  There is good
    everywhere but people tend to stick to their narrow definitions and
    understandings of the world.  It's rather like the frog in the pond, it
    happens to all including myself.
    
    I like my friends saying to best describe the above.
    
    "Some people like their prisons, because they know the cell so well".
    
    To really grow people have to take a chance to question things and not
    just accept the "norm".  But as I have said this happens to all
    including myself.
    
    No harm ment to anyone esp. Kath, just wanted to make a point. Sorry if
    I offended anyone.
    
    Regards,
    
    Sunil
2050.10welcome, Sunil!APSMME::RAMSAYWed Jun 14 1995 09:3526
    .7 Sunil
    
    Welcome to Dejavu.
    
    One of my many Indian friends (born in India, like yourself) told me
    that karma means, simply, "work."  Then he expressed his own opinion
    about how that fits in with destiny, etc.  You say that fate and
    destiny have nothing to do with "Karma" and is a lies (sic).
    
    My point is, ask 10 people a question and you will get 10 different
    answers (at least).  Everyone has, and is entitled to, his/her own
    opinion.  What one person believes is "lies," another person sees as
    "truth."  Each one of us is here to find his/her own "truth," which is
    different for each of us.
    
    If you have experienced western nations telling Indians how to
    understand their culture, etc. (and I've seen that myself in various
    Digital Note files, including India!), well, just take it with a grain
    of salt like most Indians do.  They know their truth and, I believe,
    are silently amused.
    
    While on the one hand I enjoyed your surprising outburst (that's how I
    interpreted your words), on the other hand I found it disturbing,
    especially in this file, where everyone seems to differ graciously.
    
    *Stella*
2050.11DKAS::GALLUPYou are what you think.Wed Jun 14 1995 09:4944



	Thanks for providing the context regarding the history and meaning
	of the word, Karma.  Being the individual I am, with my history, I only
	have a pre-defined set of resources to draw upon for information.

	I think it's great that you took the time to share with us your 
	history....from your resources.  I didn't get ANY of that in your
	first response.

	I think sometimes we all forget that we only have our own backgrounds
	to draw upon.....and while we might know something that's very 
	inherent and ingrained within us, others doesn't have that context
	to draw from.  

	You mention in your note that a person should question the wise.  And
	you talk about people liking their prisons because they know them 
	well.  This is very true in many ways, but there is an even truer
	thought that comes to mind right know and that is that "I do not 
	know what I do not know."  

	With wisdom comes responsibility.  We are, each and every once of 
	us, leaders.  We are not islands, everything we do, or don't do, 
	has a positive, or negative, affect on everyone around us.  So, 
	if we have wisdom in a certain area, it is our responsibility to 
	give that out to the world -- without judgement -- and teach the
	world so that we all get to learn, and understand, and become more
	wise. 

	One reason people give up on reaching out to learn from others is
	because they get their hand slapped and they get judged for not 
	knowing what they do not know.

	So, thanks for your contribution, and I would encourage you to 
	honor your wisdom, treat it with the respect and honor that it 
	deserves.  And, please, give it out more freely and with a little
	less judgement -- and we'll all benefit more in the process.

	I look forward to hearing more from you regarding your language
	and your culture.

	Kath
2050.12GIDDAY::SETHIMr. SidewinderWed Jun 14 1995 20:5716
    Hi Kath,
    
    I will do what I can to give you the meaning of terms as per the Veda's
    and from my culture as it's the best way to open people up to another
    side.
    
    I don't mean to judge others but sometimes their "judgement" on the
    values I follow is incorrect.  But that happens to all and I thank you
    for your warm response and kindness.  We are friends right :-).
    
    I have seen some interesting notes on Karma and I shall repply to one
    of them called Law and Karma it's very interesting.
    
    Regards,
    
    Sunil