Conference hydra::dejavu

    No, but there is a TV show this Thursday on this subject in France. The
    resume sayd that it's a Scientist Chursh production... I will see...

    Yesterday i see the French show.
    
    They explaine :
    
    1- Herebalive is a diet meal containing many B6 vitamin. In this way
    using daily this product may lead to brain deasease.
    2- The selling process is pyramidal model. You win if you are in the
    top.
    3- The scientific church is involved in the selling of the product. 
    4- A new "l'express" make an article on this.
    
    					.../...

    
    Re.2
    
    Merci!  
    
    Now I should also add that a few days ago I signed up to be a
    distributor.  I've been using several of the Herbalife products 
    for two months now and have had excellent results.
    
    I am wondering though, if it is the same company the French show was
    referring to.  A few things on your points from the show:
     
    >1- Herebalive is a diet meal containing many B6 vitamin. In this way
    >using daily this product may lead to brain deasease.
    
    I've checked the levels of B6 in the core group of vitamin, mineral and
    herb products, and the daily amount of B6 is only 51mg.  I'm very
    familiar with the Vitamin B6 levels of toxicity, and this falls far
    short of the amount that one would have to take in order to incur nerve
    damage.  Research has shown that a person would have to take, at a
    minimum, 200mg per day of Vitamin B6 to even begin to experience
    problems, and several sources state that the lower limit is actually
    closer to 400mg per day for an extended period.
    
    Furthermore, I've taken between 25mg-50mg or so, almost every day for the 
    last 8 years, and have not had a problem.
    
    I put some writeups in the MEDICAL conference on B6 back in 1987 or so,
    and will repost them here.  
    
    
    >2- The selling process is pyramidal model. You win if you are in the
    >top.
    
    It is what is called here as 'Multi-Level Marketing'.  There are many,
    many such companies here in the US.  A lot of them do tend to focus the
    primary earnings toward the top of the 'pyramid', and also many require
    that the end-point distributors purchase a minimum amount of volume
    every month.  I was a NuSkin distributor a few years ago, and they
    required distributors to purchase a minimum of $100.00 volume each
    month.  They were sued, however, and in an out-of-court settlement, an
    agreement was made so that end-point distributors could return unused
    products for a full refund (and agree not to place orders for a few
    months.)  I wasn't affected directly, as I wasn't pursuing a fulltime
    career with them...I just wanted to get my products at the reduced
    rate, (;^), since they do have *excellent* skin moisturizer products.
    
    I took a look at the marketing plan for Herbalife, and it's nothing
    like any other I've ever seen.  The initial distributor kit costs
    approximately $65 which includes 4 fullsize products along with 2
    audiotapes, 1 videotape, and enough information and supplies to begin
    selling immediately.  The end-point distributor immediately makes 25%
    of the retail price of all products, and if products are purchased in
    volume, the end-point distributor can make up to 42% immediately.  The
    next level is supervisor, and supervisors make 50%.  
    
    So, in essence, one can begin a business with only $65, and grow it
    depending upon the amount of work one wants to put into it.  
    
    My third-level manager is Tatyana Villikova, a former Digital principal
    engineer, and she resigned from Digital several months ago because she 
    was making almost as much as an Herbalife distributor.  She has since 
    surpassed her former salary.  Her story, up to the time she resigned, 
    appears in the Home_Based_Business notesfile, and I'll repost it here.  
    So it is possible to do quite well without being at the 'top of the 
    pyramid'. 
    
    As an aside, it's funny - Tatyana is a Kripalu Yoga instructor, and we
    finally met last week.  She did not know my last name until it was
    mentioned, then she got this amazed look and said, "You're the same
    person from DEJAVU!  I used to read there, and I also used to work 
    with Topher Cooper!"  Still have to get in touch with Topher to
    let him know...(;^)
      
    >3- The scientific church is involved in the selling of the product.
    
    Herbalife International, based in Inglewood, California, is a publically 
    held company, ranked as the 29th fastest growing international company 
    by International Business Magazine in January 1994.  Also on the list are 
    Chipcom at #26, and Sybase at #39.  Herbalife 1993 product sales were at 
    $700 million, up from $405 million in 1992.
    
    It may be that a 'scientific church' is an Herbalife distributor - that
    is entirely possible.  
    
    The founder and president, Mark Hughes, founded the company in part 
    because he watched his mother die due to unsafe dieting practices and
    wanted to find a way for people to lose weight safely and sensibly. 
    The main product line is weight control (for losing *and* for gaining
    weight), and there are also some other products for skin and haircare.
    
    Although I'm not using the products for weight control, my direct 
    supervisor started out using the products for that, and has lost 42
    pounds, 'the easiest 42 pounds she has ever lost'.  I'm using the
    products for the nutritional and energy aspects, and they are
    excellent!  I've been both studying about and taking vitamin, mineral 
    and herbal supplements for almost 9 years now, and these are by far the
    best and most effective vitamin, mineral and herbal combinations I've 
    ever seen.  The prices are competitive with what I'm used to paying, 
    too. 
    
    I'll enter additional information as time allows.
    
    Cindy

            <<< VMSZOO::DISK$NOTES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MEDICAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< MEDICAL questions and answers >-
================================================================================
Note 39.9                   CARPAL TUNNEL SYNDROME???                   9 of 114
FDCV13::PAINTER                                     130 lines  20-JUL-1987 17:03
                   -< One Article On Carpal Tunnel Syndrome >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          {From Prevention Magazine, January, 1987, pp.56-58
    

B6: A Solution to a Painful Problem (Carpal Tunnel Syndrome)
-----------------------------------

By: Hans Fisher, Ph.D., Chairman, Department of Nutrition, Rutgers Univ.

Though it's far from a household term, carpal tunnel syndrome is a 
surprisingly common, often misdiagnosed and quite painful and 
debilitating disorder of the hand.  

Its victims suffer not only pain but numbness, a burning sensation in 
the fingers, weakness of the thumb and shiny dry skin.  The symptoms 
are often most severe at night, uncomfortable enough to awake the 
sufferer from a sound sleep.  Many victims lose workdays.

The condition is caused by the compression of a nerve that passes 
through a tunnel formed by the eight bones of the wrist.  Until 
recently, the most successful treatment for carpal tunnel syndrome was 
orthopedic surgery.  But 20 percent of patients who undergo surgery 
experience either no relief form symptoms or suffer a recurrence of 
the problem. (Other treatments, such as splinting and corticosteroid 
injections, offer various degrees of success.)

Then, just a few years ago, John M. Ellis, M.D., and Karl Folkers, 
Ph.D., the renowned chemist who was the first to isolate and identify 
vitamin B12 and identify the chemical structure of vitamin B6, 
discovered that for many carpal tunnel syndrome sufferers there was a 
simpler, painless and less expensive therapy: vitamin B6.

In fact, Dr. Folker's work - supported by others - indicates, that, at 
least in sum cases, carpal tunnel syndrome may be the direct result of 
vitamin B6 deficiency.

His first clue was the discovery that a surprising number of normal 
healthy people were deficient in a certain red blood cell enzyme (a 
substance necessary for the proper chemical reaction of nutrients in 
the body) that works only in partnership with vitamin B6.  Not 
surprisingly, Dr. Folkers and his co-workers at the Institute for 
Biomedical Research at the University of Texas found that certain 
people were also lacking an adequate B6 supply to fuel this enzyme 
reaction.  This, coupled with the well-known fact that B6 deficiencies 
produce nerve disorders, led Dr. Folkers and his colleagues to test 
the red-blood-cell enzyme and vitamin B6 levels in the blood of people 
with the particular nerve disorder known as carpal tunnel syndrome.

In one study with 10 patients, Dr. Folkers and his coworkers found 
that all had low concentrations of both the enzyme and its B6 helper.  
The patients were given 100 milligrams of B6 daily and in two to four 
weeks their blood concentrations had improved 55 to 68 percent.  Not 
only that, the patients experienced some pain relief despite the brief 
treatment period.

Surgery Avoided

In another study of a single patient facing orthopedic surgery for 
carpal tunnel syndrome, Dr. Folkers and his colleagues found that the 
patient was getting only three-quarters of the Recommended Daily 
Allowance (RDA) of B6 on his normal diet.  When given only 2 mg. a day 
of B6, the deficiency decreases 14 percent after two months and 
disappears completely after two further months of supplementation with 
100 mg. of B6 daily.  When the patient was given and innocuous placebo 
in place of the vitamin, the deficiency returned promptly.  The bottom 
line for this patient was that after supplementation, orthopedic 
experts decided surgery had become unnecessary.

In 1985, two additional studies were published that clearly 
established the effectiveness of vitamin B6 as a treatment for carpal 
tunnel syndrome.  Researchers at the Kaiser Permanente Medical Center 
in California conducted a study with 24 sufferers who were given 
either 150 or 300 mg. of B6 daily, depending on their body weight.  At 
two months, the patients reported significant improvement in their 
symptoms, which was confirmed by a neurological test.  Most of the 
patients experienced further improvements after four months and, 
ultimately, 20 of the 24 no longer needed surgery.

At the Virginia Polytechnic Institute in Blacksburn, scientists found 
that some, though not all, of a small group of carpal tunnel patients 
were B6 deficient.  Those who were and were given a daily 100 mg. dose 
of the vitamin improved both their B6 status and their clinical 
symptoms.  In fact, 14 out of 15 patients given the vitamin therapy 
improved and some of the patients were even symptom-free.

One of the important outcomes of Dr. Folkers' work with B6 and carpal 
tunnel syndrome is that it has called into question whether the 
population at large is consuming even minimum daily requirements of 
this vital B vitamin.  Dr. Folkers and his colleagues recently 
reported that college women on a self-selected diet met or exceeded 
the RDA for all nutrients 'except' B6 and iron.  Women - who make up 
the majority of carpal tunnel victims - appear to be the most 
vulnerable to B6 inadequacy.  Birth control pills, as well as several 
other drugs, may destroy or render the vitamin useless to the body.

Though Dr. Folkers' discovery of the B6 - carpal tunnel condition has 
spelled relief for thousands of sufferers - and helped them avoid 
painful, costly surgery - I must add a word of caution to those who 
may want to experiment on their own.  A number of published reports 
have linked permanent nerve damage to prolonged, excessive ingestion 
of B6.  ...

So while B6 is an exciting new therapy for an old disorder, sufferers 
are well advised not to take treatment into their own hands, so to 
speak.  Instead, discuss it with your physician and let a professional 
determine what treatment is most appropriate for you.

About the Author:

Hans Fisher, Ph.D., is chairman of the department of nutrition at 
Rutgers University, New Brunswick, New Jersey.  A recognized authority
on nutrition, he is a contributing editor of 'Nutrition Reviews', an
associate editor of 'The Journal of Nutrition for four years.  In 
addition, he is the author of over 200 scholarly articles, including 
dozens of studies on cholesterol and atherosclerosis.  He also wrote, 
with Eugene Boe, 'The Rutgers Guide To Lowering Your Cholesterol: A 
Common-Sense Approach (Rutgers University Press, 1985).

Although Dr. Fisher cannot respond personally to individual health 
problems, questions of general interest may be addressed to him c/o 
Prevention Readers' Service, 33 E. Minor St., Emmaus, PA, 18049


            <<< VMSZOO::DISK$NOTES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MEDICAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< MEDICAL questions and answers >-
================================================================================
Note 39.10                  CARPAL TUNNEL SYNDROME???                  10 of 114
FDCV13::PAINTER                                     319 lines  20-JUL-1987 18:23
          -< Article on B6, CTS, Asthma, PMS and Sickle Cell Anemia >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

{From Nutrition Action Health Letter, Vol.13, No.9, October 1986, pp.1,4-6}

B6 - Vitamin and Drug?
----------------------

By: Bonnie F. Leibman

Two things are known for sure about vitamin B6:  More Americans 
consume less-than-recommended levels of this vitamin than any other, 
and excessive doses can impair the nervous system.  But in between 
feast and famine, vitamin B6 may have unforeseen abilities to treat 
health problems such as premenstral syndrome (PMS), asthma, sickle cell 
disease and carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS).  In each case, more research 
is needed, but the preliminary evidence is quite promising.

To understand clearly how B6 can be used to treat disease, it's 
necessary to step back and review a few basics.  First of all, what 
happens when people get less of the nutrient than they need?

The year was 1952.  In hospitals in Texas, Arkansas, and then other 
parts of the country, otherwise healthy babies were turning up with 
convulsive seizures.  Physicians noticed that the infants had one 
thing only in common: each had been fed formula that contained too 
little B6.(1)

The severity of the infants' response to a deficiency of B6 underscores 
the vitamin's importance.  Over 60 of the body's biochemical reactions 
won't happen without it.  Some of these biochemical reactions are 
crucial in synthesizing and altering amino acids, the building blocks 
of protein, which explains why people on high-protein diets may need 
more B6.  The vitamin also helps the body make a component of red 
blood cells, as well as serotonin, a chemical that carries messages 
throughout the brain.

When adults are deprived of B6 for weeks or months, they become 
confused and depressed.  Their skin, mouths, and tongues become 
inflamed, they get lesions at the corners of their mouths, and they, 
too, may develop convulsions.  But these are obvious symptoms of 
deficiency, caused by diets that contain very little of the vitamin, 
or by drugs that impair the body's ability to absorb or use B6.  
Recently, scientists have begun to question whether less-severe 
shortages can also cause health problems.

B6 and the RDA.  According to estimates by the U.S. Department of 
Agriculture (USDA), half of all Americans get less than two-thirds of 
the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for B6.  No other nutrient 
has as poor a record.  But since only biochemical tests can diagnose a 
true deficiency, it's too early to say how many people are actually 
getting too little B6.

Some scientists argue that the problem lies not with B6 but with the 
RDA.  Dr. Robert Reynolds of the USDA Human Nutrition Research Center 
in Beltsville, Maryland, says bluntly, "The current RDAs are 
unrealistically and unnecessarily high for many age groups.  The 
incidence of B6 deficiency is very rare in the U.S."

But other experts think the RDA is not too high.  Dr. James Leklem of 
Oregon State University notes that the margin of safety between 
current and dangerously low levels of intake is small.  "The average 
intake is probably about 1.5 to 1.6 milligrams," he comments.  "Much 
below 1.3 milligrams, you run into the possibility of long-term 
consequences, such as nervous disorders, disease or an immune system 
that isn't operating at it maximal capacity, especially in the 
elderly."

Leklem believes that researchers won't know how many Americans are 
deficient until studies look carefully for health problems in people 
who are getting marginally low levels.  To play it safe, shoot for the 
RDA.  For those who think they don't eat enough B6-rich foods (see 
chart below) a daily two-milligram supplement won't hurt.

Women in particular are more likely to run short on B6, because they 
usually eat less food than men do.  Also, pregnant and breastfeeding 
women, and women on the pill may need extra B6 (see additional article 
below).  What's more, a preliminary study suggests that middle-aged 
(and presumably older) women may need slightly more than young adult 
women (2).

But the real excitement about B6 is the recent research which suggests 
that doses well over the RDA can be used to treat disease.  For 
certain disorders, which are not caused by any deficiency, the vitamin 
seems to act as a drug rather than a nutrient.  When B6 is used in 
this way, it is administered in relatively large amounts of 50 to 200 
milligrams a day.  But is that much B6 harmful?

Too much of a Good Thing.  In 1983, Dr. Herbert Shaumberg and 
colleagues at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine shocked 
consumers and scientists when they reported that high levels of B6 - a 
water-soluble vitamin - could cause nerve damage. (2)  Seven adults 
taking 2,000-6,000 milligrams of the vitamin daily for two to 40 
months developed unstable gait, numbness in their feet and hands, 
clumsiness, and nerve degeneration.  Fortunately, the damage was not 
permanent.

Since then, both Shaumberg and Dr. Gareth Parry, of Hahnemann Medical 
College in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, have seen similar symptoms in 
people taking only 500 milligrams a day. (4,5)  One of Parry's 
patients claimed to have taken only 200 milligrams, but Parry is not 
convinced that this level is dangerous.  "I'm currently advising 
patients (with PMS) not to exceed the 100 milligrams," says Parry, 
"but I'm not convinced 200 milligrams is unsafe."

The memory of B6 toxicity is still fairly fresh in consumers' minds.  
To keep it there, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) should 
require a warning on the labels of supplements containing more than 
100 milligrams per tablet.  But the specter of nerve damage shouldn't 
close the file on B6.  On the contrary, new research on PMS, asthma, 
CTS, and sickle cell disease hint that B6 may help treat these 
seemingly unrelated health problems.

Sickle Cell Disease.  One in every 350-400 black babies born in the 
U.S. has sickle cell disease.  For these people, life is literally a 
series of crises.  A crisis occurs when some part of the body, often 
the abdomen, fails to get enough oxygen.  The lack of oxygen can cause 
excruciating pain that may last several days.

Scientists have traced the defect that causes sickle cell to 
hemoglobin, the resident protein of red blood cells that carries 
oxygen throughout the body.  In sickle cell sufferers, one of the 
hundreds of amino acids that make up the hemoglobin molecule is 
replaced with a different amino acid.

When the abnormal hemoglobin is surrounded by too little oxygen, it 
forms a long crystal that elongates the cell into a sickle shape.  
Sickle-shaped cells are more likely to break open, leading to anemia.

Recently, Dr. Clayton Natta of Columbia University and USDA's Reynolds 
noticed that patients with sickle cell disease had too little B6 in 
their plasma (the fluid portion of the blood).  When they gave five 
patients 50 milligrams of the vitamin twice a day for two months, the 
sickest patient had much shorter, much less severe crisis. (11)

A few clues don't add up to a cure, but they do pave the way for 
future studies.  In fact, NIH is now seeking proposals for studies to 
investigate the link between sickle cell and several nutrients, 
including B6.

Asthma.  "We just stumbled onto it."  That's how Reynolds describes 
his and Natta's discovery that B6 may also help asthma sufferers.  
While running routine tests on apparently healthy "controls" to use in 
their sickle cell study, the researchers found that several had 
extremely low levels of B6.  Surprisingly, all had bronchial asthma.

Intrigued by their findings, the pair looked for earlier scientific 
reports linking B6 and asthma.  Sure enough, a 1975 study found fewer 
asthmatic symptoms in 76 children who were given 200 milligrams of B6 
a day for one month. (12)  So Reynolds and Natta ran a trial in which 
they gave seven asthmatic adults 100 milligrams of B6 a day.  The 
patients reported fewer, shorter, and less severe attacks. (13)

Reynolds acknowledges that their discovery was "a serendipitous 
observation, with no placebos and no controls."  However, the exciting 
results have spurred them to embark on a large-scale, well-controlled 
study that will be completed in two years.

Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.  In the center of your wrist is a tunnel 
formed by bones (on the bottom and sides) and a tight band of fibrous 
tissue (on top).  Inside the tunnel is a nerve and several tendons 
that connect the arm muscles to the fingers.

Minor injuries, such as falling backward on your hand, or years of 
continual strain produced by an activity such as typing, can cause the 
tendons to swell.  Swelling compresses the nerve, making the 
sufferer's hand and fingers tingle or feel numb or painful.  Many 
people with CTS lose the ability to button their clothes, eat with a 
knife or fork, or use a pencil.

Dr. John Ellis of Mt. Pleasant, Texas, was the first to suggest that 
B6 might improve CTS. (14)  But some neurologists have criticized 
Ellis for not doing the standard electrical tests that objectively 
determine whether a patient's nerve has healed.

However, Dr. Allan Bernstein, a neurologist with Kaiser Permanente in 
Hayward, California, recently completed a study, not yet published, 
that did include electrical tests.  "After four months on 150 
milligrams of B6, 30-40 percent of patients improved without any other 
treatment," Bernstein reports.

Ellis says, "Unless there is beginning of atrophy or muscle weakness, 
a CTS patient may benefit from three months of 50 to 100 milligrams of 
B6 daily."  If the hand muscles have started to weaken, the patient 
should have surgery as soon as possible.

Premenstral Syndrome (PMS).  Irritability, anxiety, headaches, and 
depression - those are just a few of the problems that many women 
experience during the week before their menstrual period.  Several 
studies have concluded that B6 alleviates the symptoms in about half 
of all sufferers.  But these studies were "open" trials, in which the 
women seeking treatment were told they felt better.  More recent 
trials have shown that up to 70 percent of women said they felt better 
after taking a placebo. (6)

Results of double-blind studies - in which neither the women nor the 
researchers knew who was getting B6 are mixed.  In some studies B6 
made a difference; in others it didn't. (6,7-10)

In short, the jury is still out on B6 and PMS.  Currently, researchers 
at the National Institute of Health (NIH) are signing up women for a 
new trial.  Chris Hodge, a social worker with the Menstrually Related 
Mood Disorder Program, suggests that several earlier studies may have 
found B6 to be ineffective because the women tested didn't actually 
have PMS.  In an upcoming study, the women will be more carefully 
selected.  They will take up to 200 milligrams of B6 or a placebo for 
nine months, and rate their moods daily in a diary.

* * * * * * 

The recent, unexpected findings about B6 make it one of today's most 
talked-about vitamins.  If the research that's now in progress 
supports the results of there early studies, B6 may turn out to be one 
of our most important nutrients.

FOOD SOURCES OF B6
------------------

FOOD* (serving size)		B6 (% USRDA)
--------------------		------------
Beef liver (4 oz.)		81
Potato w/skin, baked (1 large)	35
Chicken livers (4 oz.)		34
Banana (1)			33
Turkey, light, skinned (4 oz)	32
Chicken breast, skinned (1/2)	26
Ham, fresh (4 oz)		26
Raisin Bran (3/4 cup)		25
Light tuna in water (3 oz)	21
Lentils (1 cup) 		18
Broccoli (1 spear)		18
Kidney beans, canned (1 cup)	16
Ground beef, lean (4 oz)	15
Wheat germ, toasted (1/4 cup)	14
Raisins (1/2 cup)		9
Whole wheat bread (2 slices)	5
Milk (1 cup)			5
Apple (1)			4
Peanut butter (1 tbl)		3

Footnotes
---------
1 - J.Am.Med.Assoc. 154: 405,406,1954.
2 - Am.J.Clin.Nutr. 42:226,1985
3 - N.Engl.J.Med. 309:445,1983.
4 - N.Engl.J.Med. 311:986,1984.
5 - Neurology 35:1466,1985.
6 - J.Intl.Med.Res. 13:174,1985.
7 - Acta Obstet.Gyn.Scand. 64:667,1985.
8 - Lancet 1:1177,1972.
9 - Practitioner 228:425,1984.
10 - Infertility 3:155:1980.
11 - Am.J.Clin.Nutr. 40:235,1984.
12 - Ann.Allergy 35:93,1975.
13 - Am.J.Clin.Nutr. 41:684,1985.
14 - Proc.Natl.Acad.Sci. 79:7494,1982.
15 - Am.J.Clin.Nutr. 32:2257,1979.
16 - Lancet 1: 7809,1973.
17 - Am.J.Clin.Nutr. 32:2249,1979.
18 - Am.J.Clin.Nutr. 34:1731,1981.
19 - Am.J.Clin.Nutr. 41:21,1985.


FOR WOMEN ONLY - P. 6
--------------
Women Taking the Pill:

In the 1970's, researchers like Dr. Avanelle Kirksey of Purdue
University were concerned that the estrogen in oral contraceptives
might deplete the body of B6. (15)  But today, manufacturers are
adding less estrogen to oral contraceptives, so Kirksey's concern is
abated. 

Still, women taking the pill who frequently feel depressed may find a 
B6 supplement of five or 10 milligrams a day helps.  A 1973 study 
showed that 40  milligrams a day alleviated depression in pill-users, 
but lower levels may now work because the newer oral contraceptives 
are weaker. (16)

Pregnant Women:

Blood levels of B6 drop during the last six months of pregnancy.  
While some decline seems to be unavoidable, Kirksey thinks too big a 
drop isn't healthy.

She and others have found lower Apgar scores in infants of mothers who 
had relatively low blood B6 levels during pregnancy. (17,18)  The 
Apgar test assesses heart rate, muscle tone, and other indicators of a 
newborn's physical status at birth.

Kirksey recommends a daily prenatal supplement with 10 milligrams of 
B6.  Women should avoid excessive doses of B6 - or any other vitamin 
or mineral - during pregnancy.

Breastfeeding Women:

Most breastfed infants get less than the RDA of B6, but scientists 
can't agree on whether this is a problem (some think the RDA is too 
high). (19)  However, Kirksey points out that it's very difficult to 
determine just how much B6 an infant needs.

"We know that B6 is extremely important in the early development of 
the central nervous system," she explains.  "We see more deteriorating 
cells in the brains of animals whose mothers are deficient in the 
vitamin.  But we literally can't look at the brain structures of human 
infants."

Until researchers find out more, Kirksey recommends breastfeeding 
women continue to take a prenatal supplement of 10 milligrams.  Don't 
go overboard, because the supplements of 100 milligrams can impair 
breastfeeding.  Parents of bottle-fed infants needn't worry, because 
formulas provide "quite accurate" levels of B6, says Kirksey.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

To subscribe to this publication, the address is:

	Nutrition Action Healthletter
	Center for Science in the Public Interest
	1501 16TH ST. N.W
	Washington, D.C. 20036

    
    From Tatyana Vinnikova...she's my third level supervisor.
    
    Cindy
    
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    
      <<< AKOFIN::DISK$FA0087:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_BASED_BUSINESS.NOTE;2 >>>
                           -< Home Based Business' >-
================================================================================
Note 90.0                   Another Goodbye Digital!                     1 reply
CADSYS::VINNIKOVA                                    43 lines  29-NOV-1993 14:48
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi everyone,

my name is Tatyana Vinnikova, and I am leaving Digital on December 31, 1993. 
This is very exciting for me because in the middle of my life, I am changing
my career from working as mathematician and computer programmer for more than
21 years, to giving a full chance to my new business as an Independent 
Herbalife Distributor.  

Herbalife is a 14 year old MLM company reaching for its $1.0B in sales this 
year. The company more than doubled its sales during last 3 years, despite 
a deep recession in America and Europe.

I started as a client a year ago. I lost 27 lbs. in 10 weeks and I kept it 
off!  First month in business I made $568.00.  That was so easy, everybody 
wanted to feel good and lose or gain some weight.  I saw the financial 
opportunity immediately and worked very hard to make it work for me.   

I succeeded to build business part-time during one year, which brings me now
around $5,000 a month.  It still less than I make at Digital, but guess what 
is going to happen to me if I do it full-time?  

One of the most important aspects is excellent product, which provides
preventive nutrition for everybody.  It works!  Otherwise company sales 
wouldn't be growing so fast during those hard times.  And I see a lot of 
people, grateful to me, for their health benefits and financial opportunity.

I am a Yoga teacher, and I am interested in helping people to reduce stress
in a natural way.  I taught Yoga for two and a half years three times a week 
at Digital as a volunteer.  

I do my Herbalife business in more than 7 countries, and this is incredible 
fun.  Company train you at your own home, in your own language in 17 countries 
in the world by teleconferences network.  I am going to Russia in December 
for 10 days.  This is my first visit since I left Russia 15 years ago!

I've read Steve Ehlers 85.0 note and was very happy for him!  I know the
feeling, and I want to share my story with those who are looking for financial
opportunity in another field, or want to improve health in a natural way.  
Your future is just beginning.  It's up to you to make it work for you.  


Jai Bhagwan!   Light with you!  Tatyana Vinnikova


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Note 90.1                   Another Goodbye Digital!                      1 of 1
CADSYS::VINNIKOVA                                    79 lines  30-DEC-1993 15:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi everybody,

thank you so much for all your warm words and good luck wishes!

I wish you all a very Happy New Year!

My trip to Russia was great!  

I enjoyed working here, and knowing you all.  I am on my way to new life, new 
career and I look forward to it.

Here is my generic letter with information about my business and what I am
doing.  You'll understand the root of my excitement.  This business grew out 
of a part-time business into a full-time during last year.  It expanded so 
much that I have to quit my main job.  It's not a bad results for a year in 
a new field!


My dear friend, 					December 30 1993

I'd like to share my story with everyone who is interested in a subject to 
get a good health or to lose weight.   

From my childhood I was overweight.  I had a duodenal ulcer, and gallstones, 
and last few years I started to experience some joint pains.  All those 
problems are related to nutrition.  I was looking for a natural diet, which 
would fit into my life, and help me to become healthy.  

Eleven month ago my friend told my about Herbalife products for health and
weight management.  I was amazed how he changed in a month using those food
supplements, which are made from natural herbs.  He lost 24 lbs., his blood 
pressure decreased to normal, his cholesterol dropped from 346 to 214, and he 
was a different man. I tried the weight reduction program.  In first 10 days 
I lost 9 lbs. which I accumulated during last two years.  In 10 weeks I lost 
27 lbs.  It was no fight, it was really easy.  But the best thing is that all 
my stomach discomforts are gone, my joints are fine.  My concentration is high 
and even during the day.  I forgot a sleepy time after lunch.  I need only 
5-6 hours of sleep a day, and I function very actively, accomplishing lots of 
things during a day.

All those great changes in my health were results from a Cellular Nutrition 
Program and Thermojetics.  The Cellular Nutrition Program is what it sounds.  
I feel that my body does not crave anything, and I do not need to overeat to 
get this mysterious something that was missing from food.  I used to like a lot 
sweets and pastry, it does not tempt me now very much.  Every cell is getting 
what it needs to help my immune system to do its magic of rejuvenation.  

I am a yoga teacher and studied a lot about exercises and nutrition.  I found
that Herbalife products changed my nutrition and health for the best.

My husband had an ulcer problem for more than 30 years, no drugs did a 
permanent relief.  He started Digestive system program with the Cellular 
Nutrition.  His stomach pain was gone in three days, he lost 15 lbs. and 
his weight at 55 is the same as it was when he was 18..  

My mom wanted to lose 15 lbs.  It was the first diet in her life!  She forgot 
about the arthritis in her hands, she lost 15 lbs. without any fight in two 
months, and what was more important, in a half a year she stopped taking 
sleeping pills, after more than 18 years using them every night!

As you guess now, I am in love with Herbalife products, and it has become my 
new business, making a very good combination with teaching yoga.

I am leaving Digital to start a new career.      

If you want to know more about Herbalife products or business, call me at 
(617) 449-2396, or write me at:
Tatyana Vinnikova
529 Greendale Ave. 
Needham, MA 02192

I am Tatyana Vinnikova an independent Herbalife distributor.  I will be
privileged to serve you.  Thank you very much.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or, you can also contact me, Cindy Painter, at 603-888-8559 for more 
information.  Information and product samples are provided absolutely free 
of charge with no obligation whatsoever.

    In what way does Herbalife differ from the many pyramid selling
    organisation that bankrupt thousands in the recent past?

    Jamie.

	While I dislike pyramid selling, your assertion that it
	"bankrupt[s] thousands" seems unrealistic. Can you substantiate
	that claim somehow?
	
	I admit that many who opt into pyramid selling do so with great
	expectations which are most often not realized. However, I doubt
	that many lose much more than their time.
	
	Jay

    
    Can you provide some more details, Jamie?  
    
    I do not know about others you speak of, however Herbalife is one 
    where it is not necessary to carry a large inventory of products 
    (unlike retail stores as well, by the way.)  So the risk of loss in
    terms of dollars is very small. 
    
    It's also unlike those true pyramid illegal letter chains that promise
    lots of money eventually if you just send a dollar to the person at the
    top of the list...
    
    Cindy

    Pyramid selling was one of the biggest scams of the 80s. It starts out
    with those at the top recruiting sales people and getting a commission
    on everything that they buy. Initially it works out well and the few
    at the top, most but not all, are the organisers, make a lot of money.

    Word goes out about how much money can be made and more join in at the
    bottom.

    Now no one really notices that very little actual selling is being done
    to customers. 
    
    Sales people are being recruited and they are investing in an inventory
    of goods. The people who took them on get some commission and a lesser
    commission is paid to the level above and so on right up to the top.

    Now if you are at the top and you get say, 1% of every sale, on the
    pyramid of say 1,000 people under you, you make a lot of money.

    Eventually the whole thing comes to a shuddering halt when the
    saturation point is reached. No one is left who is willing to invest
    their savings buy a stock of the produce, and no one is really selling
    any. Thousands of people are left with no savings and a stock of
    useless rubbish.

    The enterprise folds and the organisers take their vast profits and
    move on to start again.

    There were documentaries on the TV in the UK and when they moved to
    Holland they found the TV company attending their inaugural meeting and
    were seriously put out. Mercifully the publicity killed the scam stone
    dead.

    I noticed that the same sort of thing seems to be happening here, just
    this time the product is herbal.

    Jamie.
                                             

	Pyramid schemes have changed substantially. The original, Amway,
	still exists today, selling a lot more than soap products. With
	new distribution methods, and credit cards, rarely does one have
	to invest in inventories.
	
	It is still true howevere, that few people actually make money.
	The people at the top, who get into the scheme early, stand the
	best chance at making money. Often, if you've started early
	enough and are agressive enough, there is a good chance at
	getting subtsantial residual revenues. It all depends on how near
	the top you are and how many layers you build beneath you. All it
	akes is one really aggressive person in one of your lower levels
	for you to benefit. For this you must recruit hundreds of people
	and get lucky. Recruits are often enticed with "savings" on
	products "they would normally buy anyway".
	
	It is still pyramid marketing, but has become more legitimate as
	a product distribution method. Often, most are harmless. But if
	you're looking to get rich, understand you must put in great
	effort, and you must get lucky.
	
	Jay

                                      
    In Herbalife, there is no requirement to stockpile any inventory.
    
    It is also possible, because of the 50% commission on sales at the
    level up beyond distributor, to do extremely well at the retail end 
    without going up into the higher echelons of the company.  Even
    immediately, distributors are eligible for the 25% discount without
    further requirements to stockpile inventory.  Also, it is permissible
    for distributors to purchase directly from supervisors, so the risk of
    stockpiling inventory even at the upper levels is lessened. 
    Supervisors purchase at 50%, distributors purchase at between %25 and
    %42%, depending upon their volume purchase at the time, and sell to
    customers at whatever they choose.     
    
    As I mentioned before, there are companies (like NuSkin once was, for
    example) that required one to purchase a certain amount (in NuSkin's
    case, it was $100.00) per month, but they were sued and settled out 
    of court by allowing distributors to send back unopened products that 
    they had 'stockpiled'. 
    
    Cindy

>                           -< definitely different >-

	definitely a pyramid.
	
	;-)

Herbalife - Questions and Answers
---------------------------------

Prepared by David B. Katzin, M.D., Ph.D.
Chairman of Herbalife's Medical & Scientific Advisory Board

1. What is Herbalife?

   Herbalife is a scientifically formulated, herbal-based, 
   calorie-reduced nutrition program.  It is centered around our 
   unique high-energy, protein-rich, nutritional "shake" or meal 
   replacement drink, Formula #1, to which has been added food 
   supplements containing important vitamins, minerals, essential 
   fatty acids and nutritional herbs.  The Herbalife program has 
   been used for weight control and health enhancement since 1980, 
   literally by millions of individuals around the world.

2. Do You Lose Weight Because You Skip Meals?

   No. Herbalife's calorie-reduced program encourages participants 
   to eat three meals daily.  Two usual meals are in the form of our 
   nutritionally balanced meal replacement drink, and the third is 
   any meal of your choice.  In addition, Herbalife has devised a 
   seven-day recommended meal plan which is distributed with its 
   program. Diets which require people to skip meals are unhealthy 
   and stimulate binge eating.

3. Is Herbalife A "Liquid Protein" or Starvation Diet?

   Definitely not!  Herbalife is neither of these.  Our program 
   supplies at least 1000 Calories daily and is nutritionally 
   complete so individuals can lose weight safely and effectively, 
   and, just as important, keep the weight off.  "Liquid protein" 
   diets, which use nutritionally unbalanced protein-based drinks, 
   or starvation diets, which reduce calories so low (less than 500 
   calories daily) that people literally starve to lose weight, are 
   both extremely unhealthy and have less than 20% long-term 
   success.

4. How Does Herbalife Work?

   Herbalife supplies all the balanced nutrition the body needs on a 
   daily basis.  Individuals, who choose to, can lose excess weight 
   by reducing excess calories without sacrificing important 
   nutrients like protein, potassium and iron.  As a result, they 
   feel their best while they lose both excess weight and inches.

5. Is Herbalife "Natural"?

   The Herbalife program is based entirely on nutrition and herbs.  
   The program does not use drugs, medications, hormones or other 
   synthetic agents to promote weight loss.  All ingredients in the 
   Herbalife program must fulfill three important conditions:  
   purity, potency and stability.  This is how we maintain the high 
   level of quality associated with the Herbalife name.

6. What Causes The Feeling Of Increased Energy?  Is It Caffeine?

   The weight loss and energy-enhancing effects of Herbalife are the 
   result of its scientifically balanced nutritional formula.  They 
   are not due to caffeine or any natural or synthetic stimulant.  
   Herbalife's 100% herbal guarana product contains pure guarana 
   which has a naturally occurring caffeine content of about 30 mg. 
   per tablet (the same amount of caffeine as a small cola drink).  
   No chemical caffeine is added to our guarana product, and there 
   is absolutely no caffeine in any other Herbalife product.

7. Are The Vitamin Levels, Like Vitamin A, High?  Are They Safe?

   The levels of vitamins and minerals in all Herbalife formulas are 
   carefully designed to assure that individuals consuming them will 
   not develop deficiencies or excesses.  All of our formulas are 
   created to assure that all individuals, regardless of their 
   nutritional needs, receive optimum nutrition.  Studies 
   demonstrate that there are no "buildup" of vitamins or minerals 
   associated with the use of Herbalife products, including Vitamin A.  
   In formulating Herbalife products, we have taken special care to 
   assure that Vitamin A levels are completely safe and never lead to 
   accumulation, even when consumed together with a diet rich in 
   Vitamin A.

8. What Do The Herbs Do And Are They Safe?

   Herbs are nature's bounty.  They are rich sources of vitamins, 
   minerals, fiber and related nutrients essential for good health.  
   The herbal mixtures used in Herbalife products have been created 
   by experts to maximize nutritional potency.  The herbs are the 
   highest quality available anywhere in the world and are free of 
   pesticide residues and other possible contaminants.  Tableting of 
   the herbal mixtures occurs under strict quality control to 
   assure both purity and safety.

9. Can Everyone Use Herbalife?

   Yes.  Since Herbalife products are 100% nutritional food 
   supplements, they are safe for everyone.  Certain individuals 
   including children, pregnant or lactating women, insulin 
   dependent diabetics and those with compromised kidney function 
   are advised to consult with their physician before beginning this 
   or any other weight loss program.

10. Does The FDA Have A Problem With Herbalife?  Is It Approved?

   In 1986 the U.S. Food and Drug Administration thoroughly 
   evaluated the Herbalife Program and issued a statement declaring 
   that all of the Herbalife products were safe.  However, the FDA 
   does not actually approve any nutritional product or food 
   supplement, only drugs, medications and medical devices.  In 
   addition, whenever Herbalife is introduced into a new country, it 
   is reviewed by that country's government before it is approved 
   for importation and distribution.

11. Has The Herbalife Program Been Tested?

   Absolutely.  The Herbalife program has had extensive clinical 
   testing in the United States and Great Britain.  All of the 
   studies have demonstrated that Herbalife products are safe and 
   effective on both the short term and long term basis.  In 
   addition, each batch of Herbalife products is quality-control 
   tested to ensure product integrity before it is shipped anywhere 
   in the world.

12. Do Herbalife Distributors Require Professional Training?

   No.  The Herbalife Weight Control Program has been specifically 
   designed by experts and doctors in the fields of food technology 
   and nutritional medicine so that it is completely 
   self-explanatory and therefore does not require or expect 
   nutritional expertise on the part of its distributors.  However, 
   the Herbalife Medical and Scientific Advisory Board offers its 
   distributors extensive nutritional education in the form of 
   literature, tapes, and seminars.

13. Does The Herbalife Program Change Eating Habits?

   Definitely.  The Herbalife Program promotes good nutritional 
   habits like reducing fat, fried foods, salt and sugar in the diet 
   and increasing fiber and complex carbohydrates.  Most important, 
   Herbalife teaches individuals how to achieve and maintain an 
   ideal weight.  It is a lifetime health program that works for 
   everyone.

14. Is Exercise A Part Of The Herbalife Program?

   Herbalife encourages participants to follow a healthy lifestyle 
   that includes good nutrition, regular exercise, moderation in the 
   use of alcohol and avoiding tobacco use.  The Herbalife Program 
   works even if individuals do not or cannot exercise.  Many people 
   cannot exercise because of serious injuries or other health 
   programs.  Even these individuals can use the Herbalife Program to 
   lose weight successfully.

15. Is There Enough Fluid and Fiber In The Herbalife Program?

   Yes.  When followed as recommended, the Herbalife Program 
   provides approximately four pints of liquid and 25 grams of 
   fiber.  This is more than is found in the average diet of 
   industrialized countries and is the level recommended by health 
   authorities world-wide.  Supplemental fiber tablets are available 
   for those who wish to further increase their daily fiber intake.

16. Is The Herbalife Program Recommended By Doctors?

   Absolutely.  Herbalife has a Medical and Scientific Advisory 
   Board that tests and researches Herbalife products and 
   continually monitors reports of results sent by customers and 
   distributors.  In addition, many physicians and other 
   professionals in all parts of the world use Herbalife both in 
   their personal lives and in their practices.

    Re Multi level marketing.
    
    I have had substantial experience with MLM operating, Operating at
    group coordinater level for several years up till approx
    three years ago.
    
    It isn't that they are illegal, or immoral, or even that they may or
    may not demand inventory purchasing. The scheme in question, as well as
    many other MLM schemes are moral, legal and straightforward. 
    
    The main danger is always one of temptation.
    
    The schemes are designed such that it is tempting to buy stock..to get
    to that next level of discount. It is tempting to exaggerate the
    products, their performance, the potential revenue...as it brings in
    others who can add to your revenue potential. You work with others, all
    who are subject to the same temptation. Even with a cynical outlook
    you can still get carried along on the wave of potentially unjustified
    enthusiasm.
    
    However good the product, no-one is going to put significant effort
    into footslogging it around selling it to unenthusiastic friends...when
    you can make a better living getting others to do it for you. 
    
    Most people, even advanced souls, have a small proportion of greed
    inside. Few are the people who can remain pure inside a scheme whose
    main draw is LOADS of MONEY.
    
    I looked around me and saw a too high proportion of ambitious money
    grabbers who would sell their own mothers, whilst deluding themselves
    of their own motivations.
    
    I dont say anyone here is like this, I would expect not. My own point
    was that there were better ways of living. I don't personally want to
    associate myself amongst that kind of atmosphere.
    
    Maybe this scheme is different..
    
    
    Steve
    
    

    >It is also possible, because of the 50% commission on sales at the
    
    This must make interesting prices to the consumer.

    Jamie.

    
    Retail markup here in stores is also fairly close to %50. 
    
    Bookstore markup on books here is around 40%. 
                                     
    Cindy

    
    Re.14
    
    Steve,
    
    I know my own motivations on this, and certainly becoming financially
    independent (of being a slave to the corporate world) is one of them.
    
    But it's not the only one.  And it's definitely *not* the most important 
    one for me, especially with selling Herbalife products. 
    
    You may or may not know me well, however the majority of my entries 
    here and in other conferences for the last 7+ years have been along the 
    lines of self-discovery, spiritual growth, holistic healing, and in 
    general becoming the best and healthiest person one can be. 
    
    To this end, I've been taking vitamin and mineral supplements for about 
    9 years, and herbal supplements now for the last 1-2 years.  So what 
    Herbalife is offering, is nothing new to me from this perspective.      
    
    I know the value of these supplements and how they work, since I credit
    my health to them.  Many of my chronic problems that I used to have,
    went away after I began to take supplements.  9 years ago, it was
    migraines, and 2 years ago, it was candida.  Both conditions are now
    infinitely better because of the supplements.  I may enter my story at
    some point...it's been quite a journey.
    
    I've often recommended such solutions to people with similar chronic
    problems - and have even written out countless slips of paper listing
    vitamins people should take to correct conditions that they have - but
    there is underlying (which I believe to be false) idea, continually
    reinforced by our medical system, that we get all the vitamins and
    minerals we need from our diet.  So, many people hesitate to go the 
    route I have taken because of this reinforcement.  Those who have,
    though, have found relief.   
    
    Now, though, here is a set of products (Herbalife) with a great balance
    of vitamins, minerals and herbs, that is put together by real doctors
    (Dr. Katzin is an M.D., Ph.D, from UCLA, also a cardiologist, and he
    heads the Medical board of Herbalife), the products come with a 100% 
    30-day money back guarantee, and they really work well!  You saw what
    happened with Tatyana Vinnikova a few notes back...and she used to 
    participate here.  Her story is so common. 
    
    Even I, after taking all that I have taken of other brands in the past, 
    have noticed a definite improvement after beginning taking the Herbalife 
    product set.  And, I lost 3 pounds last week - my first week taking the 
    Cellular Nutrition set - and I wasn't even trying to!  Yes, I am
    pleased.  (;^)
    
    The Herbalife founder and president, Mark Hughes, watched his mother 
    die as a result of trying to lose weight for years using unsafe dieting
    practices.  This was his motivation for getting together with a
    researcher and coming up with the product set in the beginning.  And
    now, I'm watching my upline supervisor as she loses weight she's
    struggled with for many years...she's now down 42 pounds and continues
    to lose.  As she says, it's 'the easiest 42 pounds I've ever lost.'  So
    were my 3 pounds last week.
    
    About Herbalife as a company - right in the literature it says that 
    distributors are not to pressure anyone into purchasing anything or 
    becoming distributors.  I do not, in any way, get the impression that 
    Herbalife is pushing products just to push or sell them for their own 
    sake, but for the sake, health, and wellbeing of the person who is 
    purchasing them.  For those who are on the cynical side, I doubt this 
    will convince anyone, and yet it has been my experience thus far.  
    
    My own excitement and enthusiasm lies in how much good the products can 
    do - and have already done - for myself and for the people around me.
    Actually, my sister too - I found out recently that she used Herbalife
    about 3 years ago to lose 100 pounds, and has kept most of it off even
    without continuing the maintenance program.  
    
    And that I also make money selling them...well, great!  Herbalife 
    products are doing a lot more good for this world than, say, working 
    for a company involved in the production of weapons, for example...
    one of many things I'd prefer *not* to earn my money from in this 
    lifetime.  
    
    Lastly, according to the Herbalife literature, a portion of the
    proceeds from the herbal Thermojetics line is being directed toward the
    preservation of Rain Forests - the place where many of the herbs come
    from.  And the packing material used to ship the products is designed -
    and actually does (we've tested it) - dissolve in water. 
                                        
    Cindy

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Note 84.10                         RE:  N.S.A.                          10 of 22
USHS01::HARDMAN "Massive Action = Massive Results"  105 lines   2-NOV-1993 23:04
                        -< Long winded look at MLM ;-) >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >I have a problem with scores of people I have nothing to do with making
    >money off the fruits of my labor.

    And you're still able to work for Digital and sleep at night? ;-) Just
    how do you think all the managers above you get paid every week? They
    wouldn't get a check if they didn't have someone to manage! Ever seen a
    corporate structure that wasn't shaped just like a pyramid? I've got an
    excellent article from Upline magazine (an MLM industry newsletter)
    about pyramids and what they are and aren't, if you'd like a copy. It
    explains illegal pyramid schemes quite well.

    Nearly all jobs these days are MLM, it's just that those at the bottom
    don't get the option of recruiting. Managers whose groups provide a
    service that is profitable to the company usually get to grow their
    groups larger and get promotions and raises to go with the added
    responsibility and added income for the company.

    For an easy comparison, let's look at a sales team. First, there's the
    sales people, who get paid a commission based on their sales. Then
    there's the sales manager who gets a commission based on the total
    sales of the entire sales group that he manages. There may be several
    layers of sales managers, each getting paid more than the one beneath.
    Only the one at the top is benefiting from *ALL* the sales. The income
    of the others below is based only on the group that they are personally
    responsible for. 

    That's MLM in a nutshell! Only difference is, the lower rung in most
    sales staffs isn't allowed the responsibility to go out and find more
    people to sell the product (and at the same time, increase their income
    as a reward for doing so!). Their income is based ONLY on what they can
    personally sell. If for some reason they can't sell, they don't get
    paid. The upper levels still get paid on what the other part of their
    team did though. They have much greater financial security in the fact
    that they derive their income from OTHER PEOPLE. Just like Bob Palmer
    and any other manager in any corporation does...

    This is the single most important fact of any MLM company. Building a
    large group builds incredible financial security! With many MLM
    companies, you can DIE and the commission checks keep coming in every
    month to your heirs. Show me a corporation that does that, or how a
    sole proprietor can keep the money coming in if for some reason they
    can no longer work. Sure, there's disability insurance. Priced it
    lately? Most sole proprietors can't afford to carry disability
    insurance. If something happens to them their economic future is pretty
    bleak. 
    
    Some folks get lucky and happen to be in the right place, with the
    right product or service, at the right time, and strike it rich. Most
    folks that start their own business however, become a slave to that
    business for the rest of their lives. Many work harder and make less
    than at the job they left. But hey, they don't have a boss telling them
    what to do any longer! ;-)
    
    MLM gives ANYONE the opportunity to start their own business, for very
    little investment, in their spare time (so you can keep that steady
    paycheck coming in while you're learning), with the help of others that
    are already successful in the same business! No boss, no timeclock, no
    reviews, etc. YOU decide how much you want to earn. The only limit is
    your willingness to work the business. 
    
    Remember! There's no boss in MLM making you do it. I feel that this is
    the number 1 reason that many people fail in MLM. They don't have the
    self discipline to follow through on their own, and there's no one
    standing there over them constantly cracking the whip. They talk to a
    few people, get a few no's and decide that it doesn't work. We'd all be
    unemployed right now if Digital sales people gave up that easily. 
    
    MLM does work! If just takes the perseverance to keep plugging away. I
    know a couple here in Houston that have been in Amway for TEN years.
    They have never aggressively pursued the business, but over that time
    they have added a few people here and there, that have added a few
    people, etc. Now they're about to become direct distributors. Was it
    worth it? They think so. :-) Perseverance! Just hang in there and keep
    plugging away. Not everyone will be a superstar, just like not everyone
    can be a Bob Palmer. But at least in a MLM company, you have the
    opportunity to work your way up to the high income levels! Everyone
    starts with the same starter kit. 
    
    Our sponsor in Watkins is an ex-DECcie that was TFSO'd last December.
    He hasn't spent a single day looking for a job since then. (I also know
    lots of other ex-DECcies that are unemployed, have no income and still
    scoff at the idea of MLM).Because he'd been working his Watkins
    business evenings and weekends he now stays at home with his wife and
    kids. His current income from Watkins is right at $10K a month. Where
    else could a 32 year old build a business to that kind of income,
    starting with an $80 investment? Is he taking advantage of other
    people? Not any more than Bob Palmer takes advantage of each and every
    one of us every day. 
    
    He's also taught many other people how to do the same thing, and they
    are getting some healthy incomes as well. The company rewards those
    that move product out the door, be it through personal retailing or
    teaching others to do the retailing. Those that are truly successful do
    both. The commission is much higher on personal sales, but the dollar
    volume is incredible when a group gets large, so even 5% can be some
    serious cash.
    
    I'd urge anyone that doesn't fully understand MLM to track down any of
    Tom 'Big Al' Schreiter's books on MLM. They're short, humorous, and to
    the point. Great reading.
    
    Don't let the naysayers kill your dreams, dare to be your best!
    
    Harry
    

    Quote from the Herbalife Distributor's notebook:
    
    Rules of Conduct for Herbalife Distributors
    -------------------------------------------
    
    Rule 6. Undesirable Selling Practices
    
    An Herbalife Distributor shall not engage in high-pressure selling,
    but shall always conduct himself [or herself] in a courteous and
    considerate manner.  
    
    All presentations of Herbalife products must be complete and truthful 
    including, but not limited to, instructions on the usage directions 
    and precautions included on the product label and any accompanying 
    literature. 

    Hi,
    
      re the Pro MLM claims...a last balancing comment from me.
    
    I am impressed by Cindy's belief in the product. I have no problem
    believing the claims. There have been many good products sold through
    MLM organisations.
    
    
    I also believe that there many positive financial prospects from MLM
    schemes.I myself was successful in one.
    
    
    One of the benefits I always "sold", which was incidently also true,
    was that the scheme always encouraged managers to positively support
    their down line. The metrics really encouraged this. 
    
    It certainly is one of the few low (start-up) cost self-employed business
    opportunities.
    
    Like many things in this life, there is nothing wrong with MLM and you
    truely only get out what you put in. 
    
    However, I stick with my original comment...
    
    All MLM schemes I have ever seen always encourage network growth
    primarily. It was my experience that the vast majority of effort was
    always put into network expansion. 
    
    The main attraction (I know not for all, Cindy) to join MLM, is the 
    ability to "get rich quick ". This mentality encourages, in those prone 
    to temptation of this type, exaggeration, distortion. When one's
    livelyhood depends on persuading others, it is tremendously tempting to
    overstate the case. 
     
    The rebate schemes and promotion hierarchy metrics also tempt one into
    the occasional strategic stock buying. 
    
    If you put together a scheme that possesses these sorts of temptations,
    it will attract people who are prone to them (not all, I know). I
    personally didn't want to continually rub shoulders with heavily
    ambitious money seekers. 
    
    
    
    When I look back at the MLM work I was involved in. I remember the
    people who : worked themselves into the ground, because they knew they
    would only get back what they put in (I almost became like this); the 
    large percentage of creepy money grubbers who would tell any kind of crap 
    to further their ends; the couple of people who re-mortgaged and lost their
    houses to expand into Canada from the UK; 
    
    I am not saying this is inevitable, we are all different, just that MLM 
    schemes are a temptation to be wary of.
    
    
    Lots of luck with your Networking. May your downline grow and prosper.
    
    regards
    
    Steve
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
    Steve,
    
    >However, I stick with my original comment...
    >All MLM schemes I have ever seen always encourage network growth
    >primarily. It was my experience that the vast majority of effort was
    >always put into network expansion. 
    
    At last, there is one for you that does not.  I was listening to one of 
    the training tapes last night, and the main emphasis is all about product 
    retail.  They all come out and say that if you can't retail the product, 
    then you won't make the big bucks in Herbalife (a statement from the the 
    top independent distributors in the company, and not a statement from 
    Herbalife International).  
    
    The core of the business is about retail and using the products yourself, 
    daily. Then, out of that experience, telling others about it and
    selling the product.  For example, my friend and sponsor who lost 44 
    pounds and looks great - that speaks for itself.  She is her own walking 
    advertisement.  And even more so, since she has gained and lost literally 
    hundreds of pounds in her life and was as skeptical one can get about 
    what Herbalife products could do for her.
    
    
    >The main attraction (I know not for all, Cindy) to join MLM, is the 
    >ability to "get rich quick ". This mentality encourages, in those prone 
    >to temptation of this type, exaggeration, distortion. When one's
    >livelyhood depends on persuading others, it is tremendously tempting to
    >overstate the case. 
     
    I have known sales and marketing people even at computer companies to do 
    this very same thing...
    
    
    >The rebate schemes and promotion hierarchy metrics also tempt one into
    >the occasional strategic stock buying. 
    
    True.  Yet quantity buying is a standard business practice for many
    industries.  Buy more, pay less.  I've even been known to stockpile
    household goods on sale.  (;^)  
      
    One thing about Herbalife and stock buying is that if you have a
    distributor under you, the distributor can either purchase from their
    sponsor/supervisor, or from Herbalife directly, at the same discount. 
    This helps to move inventory out to the customer more quickly (since
    someone in upline usually has a certain product in their inventory
    rather than ordering directly from the company and taking 5-10 days for
    UPS delivery), and helps also to avoid the problem of any one person in 
    the line having to stock large quantities to get discounts.
    
    For example, I do not have any inventory at the moment, and am only
    getting from my supervisor the products I need to fill one order at a
    time.  I don't get the largest discount, of course, but that's fine.  
    I plan on continuing doing this until such a time when it becomes more 
    financially feasable to purchase in larger quanitities (say, when I 
    have more distributors, or when my retail base becomes larger.)  So, 
    there is truly no financial risk involved for either myself or anyone 
    in my upline or downline that I am in contact with.
    
    
    >If you put together a scheme that possesses these sorts of temptations,
    >it will attract people who are prone to them (not all, I know). I
    >personally didn't want to continually rub shoulders with heavily
    >ambitious money seekers. 
    
    I'm not really into that either.  And I have not come across anyone in
    Herbalife who is like that (at least not yet.)  In fact, it's just the
    opposite.  Tatyana (my 3rd level supervisor mentioned earlier in this
    note) has actually been splitting up some of her bonuses and giving 
    portions to her downline team.    
    
    
    >When I look back at the MLM work I was involved in. I remember the
    >people who : worked themselves into the ground, because they knew they
    >would only get back what they put in (I almost became like this); the 
    >large percentage of creepy money grubbers who would tell any kind of crap 
    >to further their ends; the couple of people who re-mortgaged and lost their
    >houses to expand into Canada from the UK; 
    
    In Herbalife, just after the 14 or so 'Rules Of Distributor Conduct', 
    there is also a formal reprimand procedure documented and in place to 
    make it possible to enforce these rules.   
    
    
    > may your downline prosper
    
    Thanks for the good wishes!
    
    And...I'm not planning on giving up my day job anytime soon.  (;^)
    
    Despite the current outsourcing plans and all the chaos it is causing, 
    I still do enjoy technical writing in the computer industry.....
     
    Cindy

    While I will make no claims about the validity of MLM (I think that
    like all else you get what you put into it). I can vouch that the
    products work. They do for me anyway. I know Cindy and we sometimes
    frequent the same gatherings where we have mutual friends involved.
    
    Back in early October, we traveled to the Hobbitt Doorway together for
    an event. She brought me samples of the Herbalife product. I tried it
    and read the literature. Now a few samples aren't enough to tell me
    more then that the shake tastes pretty good and that I didn't have any
    side effects to the other products. However, I read the literature and
    Cindy being one of the people I trust most in this or any other
    universe and my thinking about dieting all came together at once and I
    told her that I could be her experiment. :-)
    
    First of all, my general diet (true confessions time here folks)
    consisted of all the worst possible things one could eat. Generally I
    would have 1 or 2 of the following subs a night. Ham and Cheese with
    Extra ham and cheese, tomato, pickles, lettuce, mayonaise, bacon with
    extra bacon Usually 2 of these. or 1 or 2 large pastromi with mushrooms
    and pickles and mustard and again bacon with extra bacon. Along with
    this there were 3 large fries. For variety (hah?) I would go to Burger
    King or Wendy's (McDonalds, but rare) and have double and triple
    burgers usually 2 with all the trimmings. plus bacon extra bacon. 2
    large or supersize fries plus onion rings. 2 liters or more of soda was
    not unheard of. Several ice cream cones a week or if the shops are
    closed for the season, then a couple of pints a week or hagen-daaz or
    something similar. Several times a week (more then three) I would have
    two or more large bags of chips (ruffle style only :-) ) plus a half
    dozen candy bars. On occasions and this was only a few times a year, I
    would by two lbs of bacon and cook it all up as a snack. I'd also by
    the hash browns by the bag and cook that with much more oil then was
    necessary to cook them in. When I'd eat real food or even the burgers
    and steak subs, (I didn't even mention them yet) I'd smother them and
    the fries and even "regular" food in salt to the point that my mouth
    would get sore with the salt and butter! On veggies it was a must to
    smother them in it. Even on occasion, I would take 10 or more slices of
    bread (white only) and butter them and eat them as a snack. I almost
    got a person fired when I asked for a bunch of salts at a fast food
    joint and he told me "you know salt is bad for you." Luckily for him
    and for my karma, I just told him to give me the salts and thank you
    for the concern, but LEAVE ME ALONE. At work people would occasionally
    mention the excessive salt and I would just put disgusting amounts of
    salt on it in front of them and tell them thank you for your concern
    but it was my life and so what.
    
    Now that I've thoroughly disgusted all of you. (I know I am) I
    apologise for it. The miracle and wonder of it all is that I haven't
    had a stroke (genetically predisposed toward one too) or a heart attack
    or weighed over 400 lbs. I only got as high as 255 average with jumps
    to 265-7. However my cholesterol has been as high as 320 and at the
    time I started this, it was at 292. That reading had been done about 6
    months prior to this. My blood pressure was up to 156/96 and had been
    higher. Once it was about 178/104. I still did nothing about it at that
    time. No, correction. My kids and mother and work nurse and doctor and
    folks around me "made" me diet and the food was terrible and I didn't
    know how to go about it and the dietician wasn't helping all that much
    (though I loved her like my grandmother) and I was weak and I had
    headaches and all I could think about was "well that meals done, how
    soon to the next and what can I eat."
    
    So this time "I" decided. Me, no one else. I didn't even tell my family
    or co-workers right away. I started on or around Oct 8th. Oh yeah, as a
    part of this, I decided to try it in conjunction with a vegetarian
    lifestyle. I did that Cold Turkey (Pardon the pun :-) ) I read up on it
    and checked the NOTESFILES and talked to friends who had embraced that
    lifestyle. So now in the first 12 days I lost 10 lbs. and felt really
    good. The kicker was when I weighed myself today at the doctor's
    office. I knew that I had lost around 25 lbs. Maybe a little more.
    
    I weighed in at 226lbs. That's 29 lbs. in 7 weeks. I feel great. I have
    more energy. I'm exercising now. Mostly long walks. I did 10 miles on
    Sunday. When I can't walk, I have an exerbike to ride. I think I've
    eaten more apples in these 7 weeks then I have for my entire life prior
    to this. I salt nothing, I butter nothing. Unless it's a little apple
    or pumpkin or (cranberry Inside secret :-) ) on some whole grain bread.
    I will use pepper on some things. Especially on veggies that I have at
    family dinners like Thanksgiving. They still boil veggies and the taste
    goes. Pepper helps. I use the bread to swab my plate clean. I eat nuts and 
    fruit and raw veggies every day. Pasta a couple of times a week. I
    still have dairy occasionally and may yet have a peanut butter
    sandwhich if I find a natural peanut butter I want. I still like a
    glass of milk with a PB (no J) sandwhich. Haven't done it yet
    though. :-) The food tastes so good that I don't have a need to cover
    it up anymore.
    
    Now, within a few days of dropping the first 10-15 lbs. I went to have
    my Cholesterol taken and my BP checked. I wouldn't be allowed to drive
    a power vehicle at DIGITAL unless my BP was in a certain range. My
    cholestero; was down to 225. That's a 75 point drop. My "Good"
    cholesterol is a little low, but nothing earthshattering. I don't know
    what the number is, but it's a tad low. My BP is down to 120/77 at one
    point and seems to have leveld off at the 130/80 range. Maybe 10 points
    higher if I've been active. However, I'm not weak, dizzy, fainting,
    coughing up blood or anything. 
    
    Thanks to this program, I'm losing weight, exercising, eating right,
    and feel better, with more energy then I've had for years. This is an
    unsolicited testimonial. I'm not a distributor for the product. Cindy
    is a friend and my rep, but I make no money off of this. Cindy and I
    have discussed distributorship, but I don't think that it's really for
    me. Her success is what I want to see. This is the same as I do for
    anyone in a business venture that I care about. I take joy in their
    success and no thought of my own. It's weird, but I do. Anyway, I do
    get hugs and that's a pretty good paycheck in my estimation. 
    
    So, as I said, MLM may not be for me to do, (and that may be up in the
    air, if I think to long on it or find a program that strikes me), but
    as far as I'm concerned, the products work and I will reccomend them to
    anyone. 
    
    Bright Blessings,
    
    PJ

    PJ,

    Sounds like your 'regular' food was enough to KILL you.  Glad it
    didn't.  8*)

    I would like to see a case of a person not eating what you did 
    before starting this new method of living.  By eliminating all the
    stuff you stuffed into yourself, you would naturally end up with
    the success rate that you are achieving.  I also believe that men
    have some secret hormone that allows this process to happen.  ;*)
    I think you have encompassed the old method of weight loss;  cut
    back on the bad things and up the good things, plus add movement 
    to your sedentary existence.  You gave up the fats and starches
    and added tremendous exercise growth to your life.  It's like 
    giving up smoking, one has to decide for one's self to do it.  Then,
    it becomes 'easy'.  Good for your body to have made the decision
    by the little person that walks around ones brain controlling one's
    self decision making.

    justme....jacqui
    

    I think what PJ is saying is that Herbalife provided the
    framework/context in which to make the transition.

    Much of success is due to one's attitude.  I believe the
    herbs may have played a significant part in this.  Not so
    much like drugs but by giving him what he needs and allowing
    him the option of not looking for it at Burger King.

    EG: if the fats are providing him with something his body
    feels it needs and herbs can be used to provide that "something"
    then he no longer needs to look to the fats for satisfaction.
    Without that "something" he would be miserable and the diet
    would be doomed to failure.

    Tom

    Tom, thank you for putting so easily what would have taken me another
    113 lines to say. That's pretty much it. Except the Herbalife doesn't
    seem to be addicting like other things. There have been a couple of
    days where I've missed a dosage of Cellactivator or vitamins. I felt no
    cravings for them or for food during this period. 
    
    Like you say though, it may be a substitute of sorts. The last time I
    tried to diet, it was without suppliments and I got terribly ill eating
    "good" foods. It did fail.
    
    jacqui, thank you for recognizing the "I" chose. It was "MY" mindset
    that changed. I've tried to make that point elsewhere that only "I" can
    do it. Others may help and support, but "I" must want to. also  the
    retrospective easiness of it. Making and carrying through on the
    decision is hard at the time, but once on gets used to it, one wonders
    why it was so hard in the first place and it doesn't seem so. This is
    of course discounting actual physical addicitons. My
    dietician/nutritionist has told me that she doesn't believe in food
    addiciton. That it's just using food in destructive behavior and one
    needs to do the usual soul/shadow self search to find out why and
    correct it or deal with it. 
    
    I do agree that some of my sudden reversals of behavior made large
    contributions to my current march to success (I'm not there yet, but
    I'm closing in. :-) ). However, I have tried other programs. OTC stuff
    generally and they didn't work. The shakes were addicitng in their
    deliciousness. The pills I wouldn't go near. Speed Kills, to "coin" a
    cliche'. 
    
    I will state here that not all the products can be used by everyone. I
    tried one of their products and my BP went up considerably. I stopped
    using that product and may go to a substitute that they have. However,
    the product is to help in energy loss and I show no signs of that as
    yet and it's actually increasing. I will reccomend that people check
    with their physician and/or dietician/nutrionist before embarking on
    this or any other program. 
    
    To get mystical about this, (after all this is DEJAVU) when one is
    ready to learn, the teacher appears or the means are made available.
    In this case, it was learning a new behavior mode. The way found me and
    it works. (For me) I happen to think that it can for many folks. I also
    know that lots of folks here are already living healthy and may not
    need to use suppliments.
    
    jacqui, I'm sure there are testimonials from folks that didn't have a
    major problem with food. I haven't seen them and like you I'd like to
    also. Thanks for thinking of that for me. :-) I didn't. I'm also sure
    that like other programs, once you reach your goal, (In my case 200 lbs
    or a little under. 199/198, you go into a maintenance period. 1 shake a
    day and if you overeat for a meal or two, then you go to 2 a day until
    the weight comes off. Most of these programs say that. In fact, I've
    cut the cell activator to one per meal instead of 3. My system is used
    to it.
    
    Anyway, you've both, Tom and jacqui, have helped me to think and to
    learn more and that's what's important. Thanks.
    
    Bright Blessings,
    
    PJ  

    PJ,

    Ususally when I say that, my ex-cat used to come for food!  ;*)
    Did you know that I used to have a cat named PJ?  She was with
    us for 17 1/2 years before going to kitty heaven via the vet
    this past Ash Wednesday.  

    I am glad you are doing well and have give a few more bits of
    info on this plan.  Sounds like I might want to look into this
    in January.  I have set different goals for myself and so far
    have reached getting the college degree and the house should be
    straightened out by the end of the year so that it looks like
    everything is in place and clean!  The back-burner goal is losing
    the accumulated fatty tissue I have gathered over my years here
    at Digital.  

    Thanks again for sharing.

    justme....jacqui

    p.s.  The little person in my brain isn't happy enough yet to take
    	  on this new project.  One project at a time, as 'they' say!

    I'm happy that I've chosen to use a name that your cat also used. :-)
    I'm sorry that she's gone from your life. Cats are so very special.
    
    Congrats on your goal success. Booklearning was  never my strong suit.
    I'm always impressed by folks who go back and get their degrees. I'm
    obsessed with reading, but could never do it because I had to. As in
    school. The little person in my brain doesn't do school yet. Maybe that
    choice will be made someday. 
    
    I hope that when you do decide it's time, that you'll look into this
    program as you say and into others also. While I'm honored that my
    words might have some influence over your decision, you should make it
    on your own and use what I have to say as part of your research. But
    then, reading your replies and comments in WOMANNOTES, I have no fear
    about that at all. :-) 
    
    If you don't find a local distributor (Providing Herbalife is what ou
    decide to go with) then let us know out here and I'm sure mine can
    help. :-) (Free plug) :-)
    
    Bright Blessings,
    
    PJ

         
    My goodness, PJ!  Thank you for writing all that.  You're right -
    your former lifestyle was worse than even you told me before.  (;^)  
    
    To everyone else - it was definitely unsolicited.  I did not know
    about it until PJ sent a pointer after he entered it.

    Re.23, jacqui

    >I would like to see a case of a person not eating what you did 
    >before starting this new method of living.  
    
    I can provide that for you...myself.  Before taking any Herbalife
    products, my diet was liberal vegetarian (no meat, though I do consume
    eggs, cheese and dairy products), relatively low/medium fat, no added 
    salt, no added table sugar, none of the usual array of condiments 
    (ketchup, mayonaise, mustard, etc.), and so on.  
    
    I also do not drink any alcohol, only two cups of coffee per week on the 
    weekends, and in the prior 8 months before Herbalife, had even given up 
    all foods with processed sugar (including chocolate - it was tough).  I 
    do some kind of aerobic exercise every night, some yoga, and rollerskate 
    1-2x per week.  I've also taken a substantial amount of vitamin, mineral 
    and herbal supplements over the last 9 years - levels I had determined 
    for my own situation as a result of reading countless books and 
    periodicals on these subjects.
    
    I've spent several weeks at a time at Kripalu, a yoga center where the 
    food is all low fat vegetarian, doing dance aerobics once a day, yoga 
    twice a day, sauna, whirlpool, long walks outside, and so on. 
    
    In short, I have been leading a "ridiculously healthy lifestyle", to
    quote some of my friends.  (;^)
    
    Yet with all this, still I could not get rid of the extra weight around
    my waist, hips, and thighs.  My weight, at 5'3", remained a consistant
    143.5 lbs or so.  I'd just resigned myself that it would always be there.  

    This last August, I started taking Herbalife products - the Thermojetics 
    green and beige set - for energy, and I did feel an increase.  Then a 
    month later when my own supply of other supplements ran low, I added
    the Formula 2 (multivitamin/mineral) and Formula 2 (micronutrients and
    botanicals), and *added* a Formula 1 powdered shake in the late
    afternoon to my regular 3 meals per day.
    
    That week, 3.5 pounds just melted away, and soon after, another 1.5
    went away as well, so I'm down 5 pounds now.  This is particularly 
    interesting since adding the Formula 1 powdered shake to the 3 meals 
    per day is the usual recommendation for *gaining* weight.  (The usual 
    recommendation for weight loss is to substitute 2 meals per day for 
    the shake, and maintenance or slow loss is to substitute one meal.)  
    Even other Herbalife users are surprised that this happened to me.  I 
    think it was some combination that I had not had before just kicked 
    in my metabolism to working more efficiently, and the fat simply got 
    burned away.
    
    Now, I am down one entire skirt and jeans size.  At this time I'm
    taking in the ones that can be taken in, and ordering new ones.  And
    I'm actually trying not to lose any more weight at the moment as I plan
    on going to Brazil in a few months and would like my current summer
    wardrobe to continue to fit.  (;^)
      
    
    >By eliminating all the stuff you stuffed into yourself, you would 
    >naturally end up with the success rate that you are achieving.  

    Not necessarily.  If true, this approach would have worked for me long 
    ago.  Also, if the body is lacking in a certain nutrient (or nutrients), 
    then the weight will stay on no matter what.  The Herbalife products 
    provide such a complete nutrition balance that 'all bases are covered', 
    so to speak.  What also happens when the body is provided with complete 
    nutrition, is that the cravings tend to automatically go away because in 
    most cravings, it is really the body that is trying to get something 
    that is not being provided.  My friend who has lost 46 pounds so far on 
    Herbalife noticed that after a short period of time, her intense craving 
    for afternoon popcorn and other related things suddenly went away.  It 
    wasn't a question of willpower at all...the craving just didn't exist 
    anymore.
    
    As for the contraindications on some of the products, there are certain
    products that are not recommended for people with certain serious
    conditions such as high blood pressure, cardiovascular disease,
    impaired kidney function, pregnancy, and so on, however these products
    are clearly marked.   It is also highly recommended that you consult 
    your doctor before beginning any nutrition or weight management program, 
    especially if you have serious medical condition.  
    
    Herbalife Int'l has also set up a phone number that medical doctors can 
    call to consult the medical board at Herbalife and get recommendations 
    for their patients on how to use the products for certain medical 
    conditions.  Distributors are not allowed to give out medical advice - 
    they can only suggest products and reference personal accounts. 
    
    The Herbalife products are very safe for generally healthy people.  There 
    is actually a liquid vitamin supplement specially designed for infants 
    and children ages 0-4 years, and the Formula 1 shake powder can be safely 
    given to them as well.  Most diabetics can safely use the Formula 1 powder 
    as a meal replacement as well, and there are cases where people have been 
    able to cut down or even eliminate their need for insulin (NOTE - these 
    people must actively work with their medical doctors while taking Herbalife 
    products so that their blood sugar levels can be closely monitored.) The 
    main ingredient in the shake is fructose, however it is the equivalent of 
    eating a small apple.  Lastly, the Formula 1 shake powder is recognized 
    and classified as a whole food and is therefore not taxed.
    
    Cindy

    I need to make a statement regarding Hi Blood pressure. (Mine in
    particular). When I started using the Thermojetics Green and Beige,
    Cindy asked me about BP and any other preexiisting conditions. I said
    that BP was an issue a few years ago, but it was under control. Under
    control in my mind meant ignoring it. Part of the last diet attempt. I
    didn't like how I felt under it and went back to the old way of eating
    and taking care of my health. ie. I didn't. Well, I didn't have any of
    the symptoms of Hi BP, so I "didn't" have to be concerned. Also my
    attitude was; "live, die so what." While never actively suicidal, (I
    hate pain and won't subject myself to it) I really didn't care one way
    or another. So BP was just another thing to ignore and if it killed me,
    then it killed me. "no big deal. No great loss"
    
    Anyway, the BP went up and in conjunction with my doctor and the nurses 
    here at work, I'm controlling it with medication. However stopping the
    Thermojetics Green and Beige was just part of it. If I hadn't decided
    to change my eating habits, then no pill would have controled it.
    Herbalife helped me to decide to change. The Thermo's helped bring up
    an issue (BP) that was still a problem. I didn't go back to the doctor
    until the BP issue rose (Along with the BP :-). 
    
    Point here is that the tablet bottles are well marked and the
    literature regarding THermojetics has all the proper warnings about BP
    and cardiovascular issues. So they do take all the necessary
    precautions. I chose to ignore a problem that didn't ignore me. I could
    have paid a heavy price. Luckily this program has helped to show me
    that I don't have to.
    
    Bright Blessings,
    
    PJ

    PJ (and Cindy) 
    
    Congratulations on your new life style!  I think it's a wonderful
    accomplishment, regardless of the tools it took to get there!
    
    Now, a question.  cindy, like you, I live a very healthy lifestyle,
    exercise, lift weights, eat right, no salt, etc etc.  But NO, I am NOT
    a paragon of virtue here, I do like a hamburger once in a while...every
    few weeks maybe, but my question is this...
    
    I've read this entire note very carefully.  I shop at a Health Food
    Store and take Twin Labs' Immune Protectors as well as extra Vitamin E.
    There is a shake by Nature-Ade which you did in place of a meal.  It
    has all the nutrients, etc.  The vitamin supplement I take has herbs in
    it, like pau d'arco, golden seal, etc etc.
    
    What is different about Herbalife than other products out there which
    do the same thing?  They are as nutritionally balanced, and I have had
    terrific results feeling an incredible energy increase by taking the
    particular brand and particular vitamin supplement I do, so what's
    different?
    
    I'm rather curious about this product although it's more for general
    well-being, not because I need to lose weight.
    
    I don't see that there is anything different about Herbalife than the
    other supplemental combinations there are out there in the market
    place.
    
    Just wondering...
    

    
    Re.30
    
    I think to find what the differences are, it would be necessary
    to delve deeper and actually compare - ingredient by ingredient 
    and portions - your products and Herbalife products.  
    
    What I can add at this level is that, even though I was taking 
    just about everything already (including the herbs) before trying 
    the Herbalife products, still I was not having the same results
    that I got when beginning to take products from the Herbalife 
    line.  
    
    One thing you may be able to provide - can you list here the
    ingredients in the shake you mentioned?  Or, if it's too long, 
    perhaps only the first 5 ingredients.  
    
    Cindy 

    In the interest of keeping this notes file general, I have taken this 
    off-line.
    
    

	The one obvious difference is in the distribution method.
	
	Please share your comparsion findings. I'd be interested.
	
	Jay

    
    Will do, Jay.  Should be interesting to see similarities and
    differences in the products and approaches.
    
    Cindy

    Just a minor update. I had my cholesterol tested yesterday and got the
    results today. Another 25 points down. I'm under 200 (196) Good
    cholesterol is at 29 (still a little low) That's 96 total points down
    in 3 months time and one of my goals met. (To get under 200 for
    cholesterol) Only 16 more lbs. to hit the 200 for weight.
    
    Thank you Herbalife, thank you vegetarian diet and THANK YOU Cindy
    Painter for showing me this path. :-)
    
    Bright Blessings,
    
    PJ

==============================================================================
Herbalife Product:  Cellular Nutrition - Formula 1, French Vanilla Protein Mix
==============================================================================

Serving Size - 2 Tablespoons (25 g)
Servings Per Container - 22

Amount Per Serving	Powder	Powder w/8fl. oz. nonfat milk
------------------	------	-----------------------------
Calories		  90	  180
   Calories from Fat	   5	   10

                        % Daily Value **
Total Fat - 0.5 g *	   1%	   2%
   Saturated Fat 0 g	   0%	   0%
Cholesterol less than 5mg  1%	   2%
Sodium - 75 mg		   3%	   8%
Potassium - 210 mg	   6%	  18%
Total Carbohydrate - 13 g  4%	   8%
   Dietary Fiber - 3 g 	  12%	  12%
   Sugars - 10 g	  
Protein - 8 g	 	  16%	  32%
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vitamin A		  25%	  35%
Vitamin C		  25%	  30%
Calcium			  10%	  40%
Iron			  25%	  25%
Vitamin D		  25%	  50%
Vitamin E		  25%	  25%
Thiamin			  25%	  30%
Riboflavin		  25%	  40%
Niacin			  25%	  25%
Vitamin B6		  25%	  30%
Folate			   0%	   4%
Vitamin B12		  25%	  40%
Biotin			  25%	  25%
Pantothenic Acid	  25%	  35%
Phosphorus		  10%	  35%
Magnesium		  10%	  20%
Zinc			  25%	  30%
Copper			  25%	  25%
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Amount in Powder.  One cup Vitamin A & D fortified nonfat milk
  contributes an additional 90 calories, 5 calories from fat, 0.4 g fat, 
  0.3 g saturated fat, 4 mg cholesterol, 126 mg sodium, 406 mg 
  potassium, 12 g total carbohydrate (12 g sugars), and 8 g protein.

** Percent Daily Values are based on a 2000 calorie diet.  Your daily 
   values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.
		
			Calories	2,000		2,500
	 	  	--------	-----		-----
   Total Fat		Less than	 65 g		 80 g
    Sat. Fat		Less Than	 20 g		 25 g
   Cholesterol		Less Than      300 mg 	       300 mg
   Sodium		Less Than    2,400 mg	     2,400 mg
   Potassium			     3,500 mg	     3,500 mg
   Total Carbohydrate  		        300 g	 	375 g
    Dietary Fiber			 25 g		 30 g
   Protein				 50 g		 65 g

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

								(over)



Formula 1 - French Vanilla (cont'd)
-----------------------------------

Ingredients:  Fructose, isolated soy protein, calcium caseinate, casein,
              corn bran fiber, powdered cellulose, natural and artificial 
              flavors, guar gum, potassium chloride, canola oil, carrageenan, 
              soy lecithin, oat fiber, dicalcium phosphate, dl-methionine, 
              magnesium oxide, citrus pectin, psyllium husk, honey powder, 
              ascorbic acid, vitamin E acetate, ferrous fumarate, dandelion 
              root, parsley, papaya, niacinamide, zinc oxide, copper 
              gluconate, vitamin A palmitate, calcium pantothenate, papain, 
              bromelain, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamin mononitrate, 
              riboflavin, vitamin D3, biotin and cyanocobalamin.

Directions:  Simply blend or stir 2 tablespoons of Formula 1 drink mix 
             with 8 fl. oz. of nonfat milk, water, or your favorite beverage 
             until smooth.

For Optimum Nutritional Health:  It is recommended to replace one meal 
                                 daily with a delicious Formula 1 shake.

To Lose Weight:  It is recommended to replace two meals per day with a 
                 delicious Formula 1 shake and eat one well balanced meal.  
                 (Follow the guidelines in the Herbalife Cellular Nutrition 
                 System Guide.)

Protein Value Scoring:  Our exclusive Nutritional Protein Drink Mix is a 
                        protein blend free of meat, wheat, yeast, milk 
                        lactalbumin and whey.  Our Protein Digestibility 
                        Amino Acid Score is 1.0 which is the highest 
                        score for labeling protein quality.  This is the 
                        U.S. Government's new reference standard for 
                        evaluating protein quality.  Because of its higher 
                        protein quality, Formula 1 contributes more usable 
                        protein per measure than products which fail to meet 
                        this reference standard.

Exclusive Formulation:  Our Nutritional Protein Drink Mix is specially 
                        formulated for optimum nutritional health.  It 
                        provides the dietary amino acids important for good 
                        health, including the eight essential amino acids 
                        which the body cannot produce on its own.  In 
                        addition, it contains carbohydrates for quick energy, 
                        19 vitamins and minerals, including the antioxidant 
                        vitamins A, C, and E, herbs, and less than 1 gram of 
                        fat per serving.  It is low fat and a source of 
                        dietary fiber.

Notice:  It is always advisable when using this product or any other weight 
         control program to consult a physician especially for children, 
         pregnant or lactating women, people with chronic kidney problems 
         or insulin-dependent diabetics.



===============================================================================
Herbalife Product:  Cellular Nutrition - Formula 2, Multivitamin/minerals/herbs
===============================================================================

Recommended Use:  2 Tablets three times a day with meals.
Maximum Results:  Use this product in conjunction with other Herbalife products
and follow the suggested Herbalife Cellular Nutrition System Guide.

Each Six Tablets Provide:

Vitamins				  Amount	% U.S. RDA*
--------                  		  ------	-----------
Vit. A (Palmitate & Beta Carotene	5000 I.U.	    100
Vit. D (Cholecalciferol)		 400 I.U.	    100
Vit. B-1 (Thiamine HCL)			   25 mg.	   1667
Vit. B-2 (Riboflavin)			   25 mg.	   1470
Vit. B-6 (Pyridoxine HCL & 		   50 mg. 	   2500
           Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate)	
Vit. B-12 (Cobalamin Concentrate)	  10 mcg. 	    167
Niacinamide 				  160 mg.	    800
Pantothenic Acid			   20 mg. 	    200
Vit. C (Ascorbic Acid)			  200 mg.	    333
Vit. E (DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate)	  30 I.U.	    100
Folic Acid 				 400 mcg.	    100
Biotin					 150 mcg.	     50

Minerals				  Amount	% U.S. RDA*
--------                  		  ------	-----------
Calcium					  750 mg.	     75
Magnesium				  300 mg.	     75
Phosphorus				  150 mg.	     15
Potassium				   99 mg.	     **
Iron					 13.5 mg.	     75
Zinc					   15 mg.	    100
Copper					  1.5 mg.	     75
Iodine					 225 mcg.	    150
Manganese				    5 mg.	     **
Chromium GTF				 100 mcg.	     **
Selenium				 50 mcg.	     **

IN A BASE OF HERBS:  Black Sesame Seed, Mung Bean, Odorless Garlic,
Chickweed, Ginger, Couch Grass, Gotu Kola, Echinacia, Fennel Seed, Black 
Walnut, and Hawthorn Berry.

BIOFLAVINOIDS:  Rutin, Rosehips, Hesperidin Complex.

OTHERS:  Para-Aminobenzoic Acid and Betaine HCL.

   * Percentage of the U.S. Recommended Daily Allowance for adults and
     children 4 or more years of age
  ** U.S. RDA not established.
 *** ChromeMate (tm) is the brand name for niacin-bound GTF Chromium and
     is a trademark of the Interhealth Company.




==================================================================
Herbalife Product:  Cellular Nutrition - Formula 3, Cell Activator
==================================================================

Recommended Use:  Take one to three capsules three times a day for
                  dietary supplementation.

Maximum Results:  Use this product in conjunction with other Herbalife 
		  products and follow the suggested Herbalife Cellular
		  Nutrition System Guide.

Description:  Cell Activator is an exceptionally powerful formula 
              supplying the body with Krebs Cycle factors, 
              micronutrients, special trace elements, and a combination
              of 12 health building botanical factors.  This remarkable
              formula helps enhance vitality and good health - "Cellular
              Bioradiance."  Used daily, Cell Activator can contribute
              to your well-being.

Each three capsules of Cell Activator supply:

KREBS CYCLE FACTORS -- 750 mg.
------------------------------
Potassium/Magnesium Aspartates.

TRACE ELEMENTS -- 16.219 mg.
----------------------------
Silica, Boron, Molybdenum and Vanadium.

MICRONUTRIENT FACTORS -- 128 mg.
--------------------------------
Gamma Oryzanol, L-Glutamine, Chlorophyll and Pycnogenol.

BOTANICAL FACTOR BASE -- 533 mg.
--------------------------------
Eleutherococcus Senticosis, Astragalus Membranaceous, Similax Ornata, 
Ginkgo Biloba, Fo-Ti, Shiitake Mushroom, Bupleurum, Capsicum, Chinese
Cruciferous Concentrate, Ligustrum Lucidum, Silybum Marianum, and 
Rehmannia Glutinosa.



===========================================================
Herbalife Products:  Thermojetics - Green and Beige Tablets
===========================================================

Thermojetics Green:  Chinese Ma Huang, Bladderwrack, Yerba Mate, Valarian
		     Root, Purple Willow, Fumitory Herb and Papain.
		     Coating:  FD&C Blue No.1 Lake.

Thermojetics Beige:  Hawthorn Berry, Cascara Sagrada, Uva Ursi, Alfalfa,
		     Cornsilk, Parsley, Marshmallow Root, Magnolia Bark,
		     Pau D'Arco, Pfaffia Paniculata, Astragalus (Bai Chi),
		     Fennel Seed, Golden Rod, and Licorice.

Herbalife Product:  Schizandra Plus - Vitamin/Mineral/Herbal Supplement

Ingredients:	    Two tablets supply:		     Amt.      % U.S. RDA*
                    -------------------              ----      -----------
		    Schizandra Berries Concentrate   180 mg.	   **
		    Vitamin E (dl-Alpha Tocopherol   40 I.U.	  133
                              Acetate)
		    Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid and     80 mg.	  133
			      Ascorbyl Palmitate) 
                    Vitamin A (Beta Carotene)    5,000 I.U.       100
            	    Pantothenic Acid                 10 mg.       100
                    Vitamin B-6                      20 mg.     1,000
                    Selenium (Yeast)               100 mcg.        **
                    L-Cystine                        20 mg.        **
                    L-Phenylalanine                  20 mg.        **

       * Percentage of U.S. Recommended Daily Allowance for Adults
         and Children 4 or more years of age.
      ** U.S. RDA Not Established.

      Formulated exclusively for: Herbalife International
                                  Los Angeles, CA 90080-0210
                                  MADE IN U.S.A.

      Recommended Use: Two tablets each day, preferably one in the 
                       morning and one in the evening.

      Nutrients associated in a base containing Bee Pollen, Citrus
      Bioflavonoids, Superoxide Dismutase, Kelp, Ascorbyl Palmitate, 
      Catalase, RNA (Ribonucleic Acid) and DNA (Deoxyribonucleic Acid)
      from Yeast, and Fiber (Cellulose).

      Herbalife Schizandra Plus offers a high quality formulation of
      nutrients and anti-oxidants which help combat premature damage
      to cells from toxins in the environment, and support the body's
      natural defense system.

      30 Day Guarantee - 100% Satisfaction

Attachment: 
==========================================================================

Article on Schisandra Berries (Not affiliated with Herbalife.)
-----------------------------

From: "Let's Live" Magazine, September 1994

Herbs for Health - Berries of the Schisandra Herb Are Versatile
----------------
by Steven R. Schechter, N.D.

Schisandra chinensis is the fruit of a woody climbing vine in the
magnolia family.  Some people actually like eating the fresh or dried 
fruits for the pleasant sweet-and-sour aromatic flavor.

Although their initial taste is primarily sour or tart, they also 
produce a sweet, salty, pungent or hot, and bitter aftertaste.  
Schisandra (sometimes spelled 'schizandra') fruit are considered 
"balanced" by virtue of this distribution of flavors and their 
psysiological effects.  

The Chinese consider the taste of a medicinal plant to be a key
indicator of its therapeutic properties - each of the five basic
tastes affecting different systems and functions.  Traditional Chinese
medicine describes five elements in which various body parts or
functions, aspects of human nature (including emotions), the seasons,
and other universal influences are integrated to emphasize their
effects on each other, and on the whole. 

Schisandra Berries Act As An Adaptogen

Schisandra berries or fruits are not really a general stimulant, but 
rather a superior general tonic, regulator, balancer or adaptogen.  
Adaptogens work deeply throughout the body.  They are safe and 
effective.

In addition, adaptogens bring the organs and glands to balance
(homeostasis).  For example, schisandra fruit has been scientifically
documented to stimulate various body functions including the
gastrointestinal tract, immune system, metabolism, lungs, liver,
kidney/adrenals, some mental functions such as memory, bile secretion
(helps in digestion of fats) and rhythmic contraction of the uterine
muscles. 

These berries are astringent, nourishing and warming to the body.  They 
promote production of body fluids; stop diarrhea and coughs; allay 
sweating; nourish kidneys; benefit wasting and thirsting diseases, 
improve low energy; regulate sleep patterns; and help diabetes, asthma 
and tuberculosis.

In its adaptogenic qualities, schisandra fruit resembles Siberian 
ginseng, Asian ginseng and and astragalus.  However it does not appear 
to be as strong an adaptogen as Chinese Panax ginseng.  Schisandra is a 
safe and effective adaptogenic herb that can be taken on a daily basis 
for a long period of time.

Schisandra, Asian ginseng and Siberian ginseng all help prevent hypoxia 
and thereby aid the body's ability to utilize oxygen.  Therefore, they 
are beneficial for athletes, people living or working in high altitudes, 
those with respiratory problems, and anyone wanting increased energy.  
The implications of increased tissue oxygenation for the management of 
chronic viral infections are highly significant.

In China, it is often the major ingredient in formulas designed to 
reduce altitude sickness.  Chinese doctors have traditionally made 
extensive use of schisandra's astringent, toning effect on the 
respiratory, digestive and urogenital systems.  They use the fruit to 
treat conditions such as chronic coughs, asthma, chronic diarrhea, 
urinary and genital discharges and general fatigue.

Schisandra Berries Stimulate Central Nervous System

Recent laboratory and clinical studies verify the observations of
traditional Chinese medicine that schisandra berries produce a wide 
range of beneficial effects on the body and the emotions.  This 
research shows that schisandra stimulates various parts of the central 
nervous system, including the brain and the spinal cord.  These 
berries strengthen and quicken reflexes in normal human volunteers, 
and increase work and activity efficiency.

Schisandra has a stimulating effect on the nervous system without 
being excitatory like amphetamines or caffeine.  There are some 
herbalists who observe "the higher degree of exhaustion, the greater 
is the stimulating effect."

Depression may be due, in part, to adrenal exhaustion following any 
physical or emotional stress, especially the repetitive severe stress 
of daily exposure to environmental pollutants, radioactive toxins, 
intense athletics, or ongoing severe emotional distress.  Active 
compounds found in schisandra - lignins known as 'schizandrin', 'gamma 
schizandrin', and 'deoxyschizandrin' - help alleviate emotional and 
physical depression and reverse depression of the central nervous 
system.

Schisandra's unique tonic actions on the brain and central nervous 
system have shown excellent results with individuals prone to poor 
concentration, absentmindedness, memory loss, chronic mental fatigue, 
headaches, sleeplessness, etc.  More specifically, it has been proven 
to directly stimulate nerve cells and thereby increase intellectual 
activity, coordination and sense perception.

Schisandra is effectively used in China for many medical problems 
including neurosis, psychosis, sleep disorders, spastic paralysis, 
Parkinson's disease, and Meniere's disease.

Schisandra has a stimulating effect on the central nervous system, yet 
other research shows it can have a calming or sedating effect.  
Schisandra helps counteract the stimulatory effect of caffeine, calm 
one's spirit, and benefit insomnia.  It is also useful in inducing and 
especially promoting labor as it can stimulate and strengthen rhythmic 
uterine contractions.

Schisandra Berries Produce Tonic Effect On Liver

Schisandra improves energy levels and metabolism by increasing the 
body's ability to use glycogen stored in the liver, metabolize serum 
glucose, as well as process lactic acid.  

Research shows schisandra produces a tonic or mild regenerative effect 
upon the liver, which confirms one of its traditional clinical uses in 
China for infectious hepatitis.

In fact, researchers found that schisandra contains at least 13 lignin 
compounds that lower elevated levels of serum glutamic pyruvic 
transaminase (SGPT) liver enzymes, and indicator of hepatitis.  A 
schisandra preparation was tested on more than 5,000 patients 
representing all types of hepatitis.  It lowered SGPT levels in 84 
percent to 98% of the cases.

In another Chinese study conducted on 102 patients with non-jaundiced 
infectious hepatitis, 3 gm. of schisandra fruit powder was given three 
times per day for 30 days.  The treatment was reported helpful in 85 
percent of the patients, with more than 76 percent of the patients 
showing significant improvements.

When SGPT levels returned to normal, the treatment was continued for 
an additional two to four weeks to prevent relapse.  When the 
treatment was discontinued prematurely, the symptoms returned and the 
treatment was resumed at even larger doses.  No side effects were 
observed during the study.  Even in those patients with SGPT levels 
over 300 IU, the success rate was 72 percent.

Berries Can Help Immune Disorders, Skin Conditions

In addition, schisandra has been shown to help prevent or treat a wide 
range of other common health problems including ulcers, ulcerated skin 
sores, various immune disorders, excessive perspiration, dehydration, 
kidney ailments, diarrhea, tuberculous, diabetes, and serious wasting 
diseases.

Schisandra's action on the immune system is also noteworthy.  It has 
been shown to both stimulate inadequate immune functions and regulate 
them when they become disordered, as in autoimmune reactions.

It also increases non-specific and/or non-resistant immune responses.  
Schisandra is a good anti-fatigue herb that helps to accelerate 
"restorative processes" within the body and generate optimal health 
and vitality.

Recently, schisandra berry has been found to benefit other disorders 
such as atopic dermatitis (i.e. allergic skin conditions).  It also 
regulates both high and low blood pressure.  Meanwhile, it has enjoyed 
a popular reputation as an enhancer of sexuality - a mild aphrodisiac 
- for countless centuries. 

No Side Effects Found

Schisandra is safe even when taken on a daily basis for long periods 
of time.  Oral administration of schisandra did not product subtoxic 
symptoms in mice - which admittedly probably have faster metabolisms 
than humans - until they were given 10 gm. to 15 gm. per kilogram of 
body weight.

For example, in a 132-pound (60km) person, this would translate to 
taking 21 to 32 ounces per day before subtoxicity symptoms were 
produced.

Symptoms of overdoses including restlessness, insomnia, or dyspnea 
(difficult or labored breathing).  For those people who are highly 
sensitive or reactive to herbal preparations, large amounts of 
schisandra would not be taken after 6 p.m.

Because of schisandra's log history of safe and effective use for the 
prevention and self-treatment of a wide range of health concerns and 
its ability to help generate optimal health and vitality, it can be an 
important component of a true health care package.  Schisandra is 
available at health and natural food stores as powdered fruits in 
gelatin capsules, liquid tinctures and in some herbal formulas.

It also can be safely taken over long periods of time with only 
positive cumulative benefits.  However, it is optimal for the body's 
vital response to take a few days break now and then when taking any 
adaptogenic herb.

About The Author
----------------
Steve Schechter, N.D., a member of our Medical Advisory Board, is a 
naturopath and the author of "Fighting Radiation & Chemical Pollutants 
with Foods, Herbs & Vitamins - Documented Natural Remedies that Boost 
Your Immunity and Detoxify" (Vitality Ink Publishing, P.O. Box 294, 
Encinitas, CA, 92024).  To order copies of his book, or for a telephone 
health consultation, contact Vitality Ink at (619) 943-VITL.

    
    Herbalife is now on the Web!  Here is the homepage:
    
    		http://www.herbalife.com
    
    Since beginning using the products, I've lost 17 pounds. (;^)   
    
    The company has also just come out with a new line of fitness products 
    including a Muscle & Bulk formula for weight-lifters to add muscle
    weight without fat.
    
    Cindy