Conference hydra::dejavu

    This is my understanding ...
    
    The idea of the astral body can probably be traced to the 
    alchemist/physician Paracelsus, who postulated the influence of the 
    heavenly bodies particularly the stars ('astral' has to do with stars) on 
    the human body through an intermediate aspect of human life called the 
    astral body.  Astral projection is the ostensible separation of the astral
    body from the material body and projection of it through time and space
    during certain kinds of dreams or other altered states.  
    
    (I think) scrying is a more generic term for almost any method of
    divination, not neccessarily dependent on the theory of the astral
    body.
    
    The most elaborate modern presentations of astral (and inter-related
    etheric) body philosophies are probably those derving from the 
    Theosophical writings : Blavatsky, Bailey, Leadbeater, and so on,
    which combined Paracelsan theory and later modifications of it
    (Anton Mesmer's animal magnestism, etc.) with various Hindu concepts. 
    
    							kind regards,
    
    							todd

re: Astral Projection and Scrying

I've noticed from other notes in this conference that 'magic' can be seen
to come from many sources

e.g. low; high; natural; divine; etc

How would one best classify the 'root' required for Astral Projection and Scrying,
indeed, what are the 'roots' for each of the abilities?

Regards,
Pete.

p.s. As an example of what I mean, I don't imagine you'd need high magic
in order to levitate.

p.p.s.	If nobody knows, or if someone does but isn't allowed to tell me,
	don't worry - I'll keep searching.

    It gets into a lot of speculative historical issues.
    
    In modern interpretations of Western traditions (primarily Hermetic, 
    presumably of Egyptian and Greek origin), high and low magic are usually 
    interpreted as meaning magic intended for Holy purposes vs. magic intended 
    for manipulation of people and objects.  That is, high magics are more 
    closely akin to the mystical, union with the divine, and low magics to the 
    mundane, granting wishes and making material changes.  
    
    Sometimes 'magician' or 'mage' is made distinct from 'sorceror' or
    'witch' by this high/low terminology, although neopagans often
    counter that this is because the Christian-based Renaissance magi were
    discriminating against the pagan ones, so calling their magics
    'low' simply because they related to different kinds of deity.
    
    That's largely a matter of who's version of the history you prefer.
    
    Each tradition is likely to interpret the classifications somewhat
    differently.   Then, anthropologists interpret them still differently
    (such as sympathetic magic vs. other kinds).
    
    							kind regards,
    
    							todd

    
    Pete,
    
    It's unfortunate that most of the other people who would have replied 
    to your question from an experiential perspective are no longer with
    us.
    
    I believe - but am not certain - that there is a direct connection
    between astral travel and OOBEs (out of body experiences).  Or, they
    may in fact be the same thing.  It's been a while since I read about
    these things, and I have not ever had a conscious OOBE myself, though
    many who used to note here have had them.
    
    There is an author/explorer in this area named Robert Monroe, and he 
    has written many books on the subject, including "Far Journeys".  He
    has also founded the Monroe Institute to study these sorts of things
    from a more scientific perspective (measuring brainwaves, etc., when a
    person is experiencing an OOBE, for example - perhaps someone could
    elaborate more on this.)  You might search for topics in this file on
    OOBE, Out of Body experiences, Monroe, or topics along these lines.
    
    It's no big secret or anything like that.  This topic has been written
    up in many of the alternative publications including "New Age Journal".
    I might be able to dig it out of my archived magazines (;^) if you're
    really interested in reading it.  I'm certain that Robert Monroe was
    interviewed in that article, or it may have in fact been written by
    him.  
    
    There is also a mention of the astral plane in the book, "Stalking The
    Wild Pendulum", by I.Bentov, which I highly recommend, along with his
    other book, "The Cosmic Book".
    
    Can't answer anything on 'scrying' for you, beyond recalling that one
    of the noters here used to have the P_N: 
    
    	"It's my party and I'll scry if I want to."  (;^)
    
    Cindy
                                  

    Susan Blakemore's books on out-of-body-experiences are pretty good.
    
    							todd

    Robert Monroe's latest and most provocative book is now out. The title
    is "Ultimate Journey", ISBN 0-385-47207-2, published by Doubleday.
    
    	- Bill

    
     Last night I was flipping through "Autobiography Of A Yogi", and came
     upon many references to the astral plane/realms in the chapter on "The
     Resurrection of Sri Yukteswar (Yogananda's guru).  It was quite
     fascinating and well worth reading.
    
     Below is another comment I found on 'supernatural powers'.
    
     =================================================================
    
     From: "Autobiography Of A Yogi", by Paramahansa Yogananda 

     Yogananda asks his guru/Master where God is.  From p.171: 

     (Yogananda) One morning...I took a problem to Master.
       "I want to know sir - when shall I find God?"
       "You have found Him."
       "O no, sir, I don't think so!"

     My guru was smiling. "I am sure you aren't expecting a venerable
        Personage, adorning a throne in some antiseptic corner of
        the cosmos! I see, however, that you are imagining that
        possession of miraculous powers is prove that one has found
        God.  No.  One might gain the power to control the whole
        universe - yet find the Lord elusive still. Spiritual
        advancement is not to be measured by one's displays of
        outward powers, but solely by the depth of his bliss in
        meditation."