Conference hydra::dejavu

    there is allready a note somewhere in this file about Out of body exp.
    you might wanta look that up.
    i'd love myself to feel this, but dont know how one goes about it.

    > i'd love myself to feel this, but dont know how one goes about it.
    
    Meditation or death seem to be the avenues to OOB experiences.
    
    karl

    >Meditation or death seem to be the avenues to OOB experiences.

    humm, tough decisions, i'll have to think more about this .

    i never tried to meditate (dont know what you do in it), but i tried 
    this, and it really is good:

    when you are going to sleep, take deep breath, start slowly, and take
    deeper breath as you go, after you exhale, inhale back right away, dont
    like exhale and relax sort off, but do the inhaling and exhaling in 
    an ordered and rigid manner, and every time to inhale , take in more
    air than the last time, and when you inhale, and exhale, do it SLOWLY ,
    it must be done slowly, after about 20 or so times, if you can go that
    far, you'd feel the whole body go like numb, you dont feel anything much, 
    and you can go to sleep faster, and it feels really weird too, you feel
    your brain going somewhere else.

    /nasser
    please consult your personal physician before attempting the above
    exercise 

    There is a very good book about this. As far as I remember, it's
    called 'The Astral Projection'. I will look it up for tomorrow.
    Describes the phenomenon, background things, some theories and
    exercises.

    re: .0 Red Raven
    Thanks for posting your experience here and sharing it with us.
    If you had posted it way back in the old O.B.E. (out-of-body
    experiences) note, I probably would not have seen it.
    
    Do you think you had a sun stroke or something?

It's good to hear from you again, Red Raven. Thanks for sharing that with 
us.
	I used to have minor out of body expereinces when I was younger at 
night but I didn't have any idea what they were. They terrified me. I 
thought I was dying or something. I would feel that I had left ny body and 
was flying above it or I would feel this tremendous shaking. I would get 
terrified and try to come out of it. I suppressed these experiences so much 
that I now have trouble doing any dreaming. Now that I have to do Journeying 
work as part of my training, I can't seem to do it.

Young Owl Hatching
(Sam)

    I have a friend who says that he used to do out of body flying, and he
    had a spirit guide that would go with him. Red Raven, do you have a 
    spirit guide that goes with you?
    
    Joe

    
    Re.3
    
    Nasser,
    
    That kind of breathing is similar to something called rebirth or
    vivation breathing.  The only difference is that you don't exhale
    deliberately; rather let the breath go out on its own.  I use it
    frequently to get to sleep.  According to the books, it increases the
    amount of oxygen in the cells.  Whether it does or not, still it 
    'calms my nerves' and I fall asleep very peacefully. 
    
    If you continue this kind of circular breathing (exhaling only 
    passively), it will put you into some interesting states.  
    
    There is a book called "Vivation" (sorry, don't know authors offhand) 
    which you might be interested in.  There are a lot of rebirth books 
    around too.  There may even be a topic on it somewhere in this file 
    under vivation or rebirth.
    
    It's all quite safe - as long as you don't forcibly exhale, you will
    not run the risk of hyperventilating.  Any dizziness you feel will be
    because of the increased energy, or prana, in your body.
    
    Cindy
           

    I have written a simple, step-by-step guide called
    
    "Easy Journey To Other Planets".
    
    AnkaCharya Swami Bhaktivedanta Prabhupadha

        How about posting same.
        
        Steve Great Puba Slamma Bamma 8^)

    Red Raven-
    
    Thanks for sharing a delicious and frightening experience.
    
    For some reason, it sounds familiar, as if I have had a similar
    experience, but I can't actively remember.  I wonder if I did and have
    since repressed it into oblivion.
    
    Peace,
    David

    	When I was young up till about 8 years old, I would have out of
    body experiences where I would be flying around my bedroom and the
    house.  I would only have these experiences at night so I always
    thought they were dreams, great, wonderful dreams!  I got a big kick
    out of how real they seemed.  I have never had another spontaneous OOB 
    experience.
    	My father (of all people!) introduced me again to OOB through
    meditation for the purpose of past life regression.  It was, once
    again, a pretty neat experience.  It was through this experience that I
    realized what was going on when I was a child.
    	
    Thank you for the opportunity to share a part of myself that is
    unfortunately kept hidden.
    
    
    	

    RE. .4 (book)
    See topic 22.46

    RE: .12
    
    I too had flying dreams until I was about 8. I don't believe they were
    OOBEs at all, they were simply vivid dreams. I can still remember
    having had them, so they were obviously of some importance, but I don't
    see why they should be any more than dreams. Mine included, not just
    the ability to fly, but I had a little car, which I could drive, so I
    had complete freedom of movement, on a global basis. Dreams, that's
    all, dreams.
    
    Laurie.

                                                              
    There is a lot of good information on OOBE's in the book:  
    
          "The Holographic Universe", by Michael Talbot
    
    I just got it the other day and was flipping through it last night.
    
    Excellent book.
    
    Laurie - although I have not had an OOBE, according to many sources
    (including the one listed above), the difference between a dream and 
    an OOBE is that you can leave your body and go anywhere you'd like.  
    It's real time and you are there....and upon returning to your body, 
    you can describe things as they were happening when you were there 
    (what the weather was, what someone was wearing, what's going on), 
    even though your physical body is not (there).  And just because you
    haven't experienced one, doesn't mean that others haven't.  
    
    Cindy

    Got an ISBN number on that, Cindy?

    
    Not handy, Mary.  I'll be out next week...perhaps someone else
    might know.  It's fairly popular and should be easy for a local
    bookstore to find on their fiche, if they don't have it on their 
    shelves.
    
    Cindy

    I  had one when I was 17 and I remember every little aspect of it, the
    flying around the room, the speed I was flying (pretty fast!) the wind
    blowing through my long hair, the way I left things that nite, and I
    swear I was pretty concious. I remember the electrcal feeling when I
    left my body and the falling feeling when I went back into it, at first
    I thaught it was a really bizzarre dream but then when I read what it
    was I could not beleive it, it is neat but I thought it was on the
    scary side!

    I don't know if this is the right place but has anybody ever heard of
    T. Lobsang Rampa?  He was (is?) an author who claimed many out of body
    experiences.  I think I read a book by him many, many years ago and
    would like to find some more stuff from him.
    
    Dalip

    Gosh that takes me back a bit. I read his stuff when I was about 15.

    I think that it turned out he was a plumber from Leeds, or something
    like that. But he was a good writer with a vivid imagination.

    Jamie.

From "The Buddhist Handbook", who is who in Buddhism:

 "Rampa, T. Lobsang (pseudonym of Cyril Henry Hoskins; 1911-81): Novelist.
  Plumber from Cornwall who had only visited Tibet in the pages of books;
  enjoyed great vogue for a while with a series of nearly 20 novels
  on Tibet"

    A popular  read in paperback was called"The third eye".Tellingof  his
    early selection into the  Tibetan priesthood, and initiation rights  of
    this select group..He  wrote  many other paperbacks, claiming  them to
    be true  recollections  of  his past life  experience before he 
    assumed  "walk in" status as Mr Hoskins in the  previous note..For  a
    plumber, he displayed rare intellect?
    

    Aye and he made a pretty penny from it too.

    Jamie.

    
    	RE: .20
    
    	I have read most of his books, and one of the most
    	interesting ones, as far as I'm concerned, is "The Hermit".
    

    I was struck by lightening when I was about age 3-4... I remember the
    incident, at least the part before, however I do not remember much
    after the incident... I was paralized for the next 2-3 days.  I wish
    that I could have enjoyed an OOBE then, however I am too strong willed
    to be able to do that, unless I should actually die.
    
    My understanding of OOBE, is like Hypnosis, not everyone can be able to 
    do it.  
    
    My wife can do it.  The first one occurred in Kentucky... it was summer
    and she has asthma..or a variation she can breathe in, but bubbles form
    in her lungs and she can not exhale.  She discovered that the best way
    to aid this is to stop her breathing for a while so the bubbles burst,
    and then she can breathe normally again.  Medicine does not help this.
    It was hot and humid, and we made wild love.  She had a bad attack, and 
    when it did not stop, I held her nose and mouth as before and she
    fought back, I finally got her and held her, until she went limp and 
    relaxed.  I let go, and checked for breathing and heart... nothing, I
    was really frightened, I PRAYED.  After a moment or a year.  She
    started breathing again, BOY I thanked GOD then.  She told me that she
    went out and looked down on me, and could see me being upset, and saw
    me listen to her chest, and mouth.  But she was on a cloud that took
    off on an upward angle, and she could see things at the sides, but not
    clearly, as the cloud was going at great speed.  She came to a door and
    knew that she wanted inside, but when she knocked, a voice told her to 
    go back as it was not time for her.  She protested, but the cloud was
    going back as fast or faster.  Then she woke up...
    
    Thank God a few years later in Texas, the asthma went away, and we have
    had no further problems.  
    
    However she learned how to control going out of body.  She told me that
    she could see me at work and such, but every thing is distorted so she
    could not identify places...
    
    
    Dave

    re: .26,
>    that I could have enjoyed an OOBE then, however I am too strong willed
>    to be able to do that, unless I should actually die.
    
>    My understanding of OOBE, is like Hypnosis, not everyone can be able to 
>    do it.  
    
    I don't know whether this is true in either case, (that not everyone
    can experience the various phenomena) given the right 
    combination of conditions, but it may well be true that these
    things have some interesting similarities.   T.X. Barber and others
    did some interesting research on commonalities between various
    kinds of experience, and found a marked visionary capacity
    in common between many excellent hypnotic subjects and people
    who have reported OOBEs and other unusual experiences.
    
    That wouldn't, in my mind, neccessarily translate to a lack of
    willfulness, at least not directly, though it certainly might
    be influenced by a _particular_ willingness or refusal to allow yourself
    to become immersed in inner imagery.
    
    						todd

	re .26:

	IMO, there seems to be a generel misunderstanding about OBE's.
	What really happens is the astral body leaves the physical
	body, and this again happens when one goes to sleep or gets
	into a state of unconsciousness, after an accident or such.

	This happens for EVERY human being. Another side of the story
	is if one remembers it, which again depends on if the astral
	body has become awakened. When someone has a conscious astral
	experience, it's often felt like a 'flying' feeling, something
	which is COMPLETELY different than normal dreaming (I've tried
	it myself several times). Very clear dreams with 'Superman fly-
	ing' involved are often rememberings of real astral experien-
	ces, picked up by the physical brain.

	It is possible for the astral body to be full awake during night-
	time, without any memory of it in the morning.

	All this is described into details in the books of f.ex. Lead-
	beater and Arthur Powell.

	Poul

    
    I have been experimenting with OBE's for about nine months and have
    had some good success. I began by simply contentrating on raising my
    astral body above my physical body, anywhere from 3 inches to a couple
    of feet. After much practice I've been able to float to the ceiling and
    actually feel the pressure of the ceiling against my body.  I have
    now acheived passing through walls and ceilings but only by a couple of
    feet. Hopefully my progress will continue.  For me the trick is to
    focus energy under my body to propel my astral body up and about always
    with my eyes close(physical body).  It's way intense..
    
    Terry

    I've been read-only in this conference for the 6 or so months I've been
    a contractor here. But I had a strange experience a couple of nights
    ago and I thought I'd see if anyone has had any similar experiences.
    I have had some minor OOBEs over the years, but never anything I could
    confirm until this last one. These would almost always happen when I
    was trying to go back to sleep after awakening in the middle of the
    night or early morning. As a veteran insomniac, I spend a lot of time
    doing this:-) 
    
    The other night, my husband and I both woke up at about 3 AM and had
    trouble getting back to sleep. Finally he got up, while I stayed in bed
    and tried to get back to sleep. I drifted off for a short while, but
    then I 'woke up', but found that I could not move. This has happened
    before and it's somewhat scary. (This is how my OOBE's usually begin.)
    
    Finally I decided to reach and open the door, right by our bed,
    which leads into the living room, and call to my husband (I figured
    he'd be in the living room watching TV, as he does when he can't
    sleep.) I reached over, and instead of meeting with the resistance of
    the doorknob, my hand went through the door. At that point I realized I
    was out of my body. The feeling was that of being awake, but in an
    unfamiliar dimension, even though our house appeared the same as usual.
    
    I then went through the door, which appeared as a black area, perhaps
    slightly more dense. I knew I had gone through it because I was on the
    other side, in the living room. Next thing I knew, I was suddenly
    rushing backwards, up and away from the house. I could feel the wind
    rushing by my ears and I could still see down  into the living room,
    which was getting further and further away. I have no idea where I was
    going in such a hurry! But I thought to myself, "NO! I really want to
    go and see Doug!" (my husband) I wanted to see if I could make contact
    with him, and possibly impress him with my newfound abilities.
    
    Immediately I found myself back in the living room, in the spot where I 
    had been before. I headed out toward the kitchen--part of me must have
    known Doug was there--and found him in the dining room, just coming
    around the table out of the kitchen. I came right up to him and yelled
    his name, waving my arms. I guess I knew I had to really yell to get 
    his attention. He stopped, and for a few seconds, it seemed that he
    could see or hear SOMETHING. It seemed that he was actually looking at
    me for a moment. Then, he decided he hadn't heard anything, and walked
    right through me.
    
    I don't understand what happened next and I'm not sure I want to! My
    ex-husband appeared in the same spot Doug had been in, looking very
    angry. It seemed like he had heard me yelling. After that, I just sort
    of drifted off into a dream.
    
    A short while later, I heard the door to the bedroom open and I awoke
    from what seemed to be a sound sleep. Doug came in. I said, "Did you
    come out of the kitchen about 10 minutes ago?" He said, "Yes, why?"
    
    I told him my story. He asked several questions about exactly where I
    had seen him, and what I had done. I hadn't mentioned at first that he
    had paused for several seconds when I saw him--he asked if he had just
    kept going and walked through me immediately. I said, "No, you stopped
    and looked around". He confirmed that this was exactly what he had
    done. We went out to the dining room and I showed him the exact spot
    where I had seen him stop, which he said was accurate.
    
    We both stayed awake until we had to get up for work, somewhat shaken 
    by the whole experience.
    
    Any comments?  
    
    

    
    Welcome! (;^)
    
    My goodness - you certainly left me breathless by that one!   Can't
    make any comments though because I've never had one that I can recall.
    
    Cindy

    
    
    
    Your note sure gave me goose bumps.
    Very chilling.
    Did you at any point see your own body lying in your bed?
    
    John...
    
    
    			

    I was a little surprised that you guys (.31 and .32) seemed to have a 
    strong reaction to my experience. While it was happening, it seemed
    pretty ordinary. It was only afterwards, when I confirmed what I'd
    seen, that it became a bit unsettling to me.
    
    No, I never saw my body, but I didn't look back at it. The whole thing
    happened in what seemed like just a few minutes.
    
    Yesterday I picked up a copy of Robert Monroe's book 'Journeys out of
    the Body', which I read a long time ago. The first time I read it, it
    seemed to trigger some OOBE's. Maybe I was just more aware of that
    state between sleep and waking, whereas I would usually just pass
    through it quickly into sleep. This was happening quite a bit for a few
    weeks, maybe 15 years ago. My husband would get up about two hours
    before I had to, and I would always try to get back to sleep. Quite a
    few times, maybe 10 or so, I would realize I was out of my body, but in
    the same room, nearby, and I would panic and try to wake up. I would
    try unsuccessfully to move, and finally, I would try to force myself
    up into a sitting position with great effort. More than once, I seemed
    to tumble forward over and over--the kind of thing that would happen if
    you put great effort into moving something that was much lighter than
    you expected. I also would find myself up around the corners of the
    ceiling. It was actually pretty frustrating and scary to not be able to
    get back into my body and to be in a strange, unfamiliar dimension.
    I could always see the room clearly, and felt awake, although slightly
    confused. I know this sounds bizarre! I don't remember ever traveling
    anywhere out of the room, probably because I was so preoccupied with
    getting back into my body.
    
    It got to the point where I decided that I really did not want this to be
    happening, and after that, not much that was noteworthy happened for
    many years. I had only a few minor episodes which passed quickly. 
     
    I have no idea what brought this recent experience on. Part of me is hoping 
    it will keep happening and I'll be able to do some exploring, like Monroe
    did (maybe even go out to visit my daughter in Seattle and save on
    plane fare ;-)   What I noticed about this experience is that I seemed
    to be able to navigate much more easily and think more clearly in that
    state, than I can ever remember happening before. But another part of
    me is quite afraid. It's so strange. I hope I'm not going crazy! But I
    don't feel any crazier than usual, in my waking state. I'm actually
    somewhat less stressed than usual, and in good health.
    
    I'd be really curious to hear of any OOBE-related  experiences anyone 
    has had.                                              

    re .30  What a fascinating story, and relayed so vividly!  I felt as if
    I were experiencing it with you!  Thanks for sharing that with us.
    
    	*Stella*