Conference hydra::dejavu

    
    I concur.  
    
    It is getting rather tiring and boring.
    
    Cindy

    It goes in cycles.

			    Topher

    There is a lot of negativism in this file lately.  That is not what
    this file is all about.  It was pleasanter to read a while ago.  No
    arguments, no attacks, just information or experiences to digest or
    forget about.  And ask questions if clarification was needed.  I do not
    like all this attacking one another.  The world has got to stop doing 
this.
    The world has got to learn to get along with one another, respect one
    another.  This includes countries, continents, peoples, families,
    individuals.

This is true and I have probably been pretty negative at times in here but I 
wanted to express the feelings that the Rebublican convention brought up for 
me, it made me that fearfull. It's true that we have to respect one another. 
It's hard. It's a lesson that I am currently struggling with.

Sam

    While I am rather tired of the negativism that is here and sometimes in
    other files, I feel that it has to happen. As Topher said, "It goes in
    cycles." It also helps us to modify ideas and clarify our positions.
    Remember, what is negative to one is positive to another. Outright
    attacks on people because of their ideas and beliefs should never be
    tolerated. Attacks on the beleifs or ideas because they are so far from
    main stream thinking as to be considered by many to be "crazy", "off
    the wall", or "frightening", is also wrong. Disagreeing with ideas,
    even disagreeing vehemently is fine. We shape our beliefs, ideas,
    ideals on healthy skepticism and potent agreements.
    
    It would be a poorer multiverse without argument and some negativism.
    
    Yin & Yang is a very real concept.
    
    
    PJ

    Gee, ... I didn't even realize it was negative lately... it's been
    much worse in the past (I think).... I mean... what do you guys think
    has been negative about it?  
    
    I'm probably being negative and didn't even realize it... I just
    thought we were talking... life isn't always happy for everyone...
    sometimes people have problems and feel like talking about them...
    that's not so bad, is it?

    'same as it ever was'... :-)

    
    This file is NOT negative!!! ;-) ;-) ;-)
    
    
    guy
    
    

    Some one entered a note recently about a workbook to combat negative
    attitudes... does anyone remember where that note is?

    Mary,
    
    I think the reference is under the "How to erase negative thoughts 
    from my mind" note.
    
    Kb

    thanks, kb..

    Why be positive . The world sucks .
    

    Thanks Warburtong.. 

    
    there is no justice...
    
    
    
    ;-)
    
    guy

    Believe it or not a strange and mystical episode in Manchester led me
    to this post-existentialist viewpoint.
    

    Oh yea? ... interesting...

     Well I wouln't wish to bore you with an account of a deeply felt,
    intense , profound and sensual expierience .
    

    Ok..

    .17
    
    Well, if Mary doesn't want to be bored, I do.  Tell me about
    it.  :^)
    
    Joanne

    re the topic.. this isn't about the notesfile, but linear thinking is
    Fascist.
    
    I've been having a problem being around my 26-year old stepdaughter.  
    
    She's an art student at the local U, lives on her own, dresses fashionably 
    all in black, dyed her hair purple, has black nail polish, and then 
    complains that people mistake her for 19.  She thinks the world sucks, 
    with all the suffering, including hers.  Of course it's the self-imposed 
    type.  Her artwork is very dark and negative, technically inept, 
    conceptually stark.  I don't like any of it, and at the same time I'm 
    glad she's hanging in there with the work.
    
    At times I just want to put distance between us.. it seems I have hold 
    of a possibly shaky optimism and faith, and she's a walking reproach to
    anyone halfway happy.  She claims to have a spiritual path, but is
    reaping no visible benefits from it.  I have to remember not to expect
    her to be a peer, because of her age.. though she has been for
    counseling in the past, and is clearly not done, she spurns it as going
    'backwards' and wants to 'get on' with her life.  
    
    It's a lesson in compassionate detachment.  She has to stumble and fall
    on her own, as she violently rejects advice and/or guidance from her
    mother or me.  I can see glimpses occasionally of the shining face I 
    know is in her, but it's a lot of work right now !
    
    best. karl

    Anonymous notes are as bad-mannered as they are cowardly.
    
    Laurie.

    I've been called many things in the past, but a bore! Ye Gods!
    
    Actually, I don't believe it's boring to consider anonymous criticism
    offensive. I've given Mary Stanley her fair share of grief in the past,
    but I've always had the guts to put my name at the bottom, and to note
    from my own account. More than can be said of "Annoyed".
    
    Laurie.

      RE :.24
      
     So long that you realise that your views are subjective , and not
    shared by everyone . Personally I feel that 'Annoyed' has an
    interesting contribution to make and displays the gutsy courage that
    others can only dream of .
    
    
    

RE:   <<< Note 1733.25 by PEKING::WARBURTONG "Is it herbal deficiency Doc??!" >>>
      
�     So long that you realise that your views are subjective , and not
�    shared by everyone . Personally I feel that 'Annoyed' has an
�    interesting contribution to make and displays the gutsy courage that
�    others can only dream of .
    
    This may well come as a surprise to you, but anonymous noting, or
    anonymous anything as it happens, requires no courage whatsoever,
    actually.
    
    Laurie.
    
    PS. It was probably you anyway.
    
    
    

    

     RE : .28
    
     Dear Laurie ,
                  I feel it may be difficult to get this across but here
    goes . You accused 'Annoyed' of cowardice in a previous note . I
    pointed out that your views were subjective ,ie they are not
    necessarily shared by others . Why then do you find it necessary to
    repeat what you had previously said ; the only elaboration being a
    slanderous and particularly cowardly attack upon myself ?
                                                    Guy
    

    RE: .28
    
    I repeated (or rather elaborated) my previous statements because you
    asserted that "Annoyed" was "gutsy". I merely pointed out that the
    contrary was in fact the case, as evidenced by the cowardly lack of
    identification.
    
    My other remark was not slanderous, since it contained the word
    "probably". Besides, if I were really bothered, I could easily ask
    "W.E." the owner of that account, who's been using it and when. Perhaps
    it's "W.E." in person, who knows?
    
    "Annoyed." Show your "face", if you expect the courtesy of a reply.
    
    Laurie.

    
    	Any body have any popcorn?
    
    Terry

�   <<< Note 1733.12 by PEKING::WARBURTONG "Is it herbal deficiency Doc??!" >>>
�                          -< The alternative view . >-
�
�    Why be positive . The world sucks .
    
You could always leave.

Dougie

    Do you want butter with the popcorn?

    Jamie.

         Slanderous innuendo then if you wish to be pedantic.
    
    
    
    
    

�   <<< Note 1733.35 by PEKING::WARBURTONG "Is it herbal deficiency Doc??!" >>>
�
�         Slanderous innuendo then if you wish to be pedantic.

If you wanted to be really pedantic, you might find the word you want is
libel. 

Dougie

Well I think that Jamie Anderson and Laurie Brown should both be thrown out on
their ears.

A. Nonymous

    You guys getting bored over there or what?  

    re: .37
    
    Are Laurie and Jamie Lobally challenged? Mods, I think .37 is earist.
    

     re : 36
    
    Well Dougie - it may be that libel pertains to  written as opposed
    to   oral  defamation but given the conversational approach of the
    preceding arguments I feel I would have to agree with Mr Warburton
    that slander was the appropriate term .
    
    
        **Gary**
    

    Somebody better check the bread over there... 

    Just as a matter of interest, where is this alleged libel/slander meant
    to have taken place?
    
    Dougie
    

    I've got some ham sandwiches.
    
    Laurie.
    
    PS. Pedantic? Moi? Really, I never heard the like! Me of all people!

On second thoughts, have them both strung up by their ears.

A. Nonymous

    Well, FWIW, I think Laurie and Jamie are wonderful.
    
    Asiu Donym.

    
    
    	Defintely buttered popcorn Jamie
    	and make it the Large size, could be a long Movie
    
    terry

     Has anybody tried lenteges ,a delicious stew from northern Spain ?
    
    Ingrediants : a handful of lentils , a chorizo sausage , one large
    onion , one clove of garlic , one tbs olive oil , potatoes ,
     cumin, and seasoning .
    
                      Place the lentils in a pan of water and bring to the
    boil . Remove from the heat . Meanwhile heat the olive oil ;when hot
    fry the onion until soft  Add the Chorizo ( cut into bite size pieces)
     and the cumin, garlic , paprika , and the drained lentils and stir .
                      Add water ,
     bring to the boil , reduce the heat and simmer for one hour . Then add
    large pieces of potato and cook for another half-hour .
     

    Rathole Alert! Moderator get in here and do your thing!

    Jamie.

     Would salami be ok?
    
         **Gary**
    

       I think you'r being a bit negative there Gary . Chorizo is cheap and
    available in any delicatessan .
    
    
    

    
    Re: .16
    
    (boy did a lot happen in this stream last night)
    
    Actually, the new "in" thing seems to be to highlight the negative
    things that occurred in your life.  Like, it's cool to have had a rough
    childhood (even if it wasn't really).  I have noticed this among some
    18-25 year old friends.  They actually have to work pretty hard at
    maintaining that negativism, but it seems to be a passing fad in the
    Boston area.  She doesn't want to look back (in the counseling)
    probably for two reasons: 1. she might be healed (ooh, bad fashion),
    and 2. she may not be ready.  I've heard a rumor that most folks aren't
    really ready for "recovery" (of whatever sort) until about age 30
    (holding true for my household ;-).  Ignore the negativism, don't fight
    it.  Trying to change her feeds her need (for what, I can't say). 
    She'll be more likely to drop it when it doesn't get her the attention
    she is craving. (note, I'm not a professional, but have had lots of
    accurate guesses upon occasion).  Just love her anyway, but don't cater
    to this darkness thing.  (okay Beth, time to shut up)
    
    

    oops, that was supposed to be Re: .10, not .16.
    
    Beth

    
    Gees, my day for typos: make that Re: .20 (TWENTY)

    Me again.  Any of that popcorn left (all though I seem to have missed
    all the juicy parts).
    
    Actually, all this does seem to have eliminated some of the negativism. 
    I know I've had fun reading all this :-)
    
    Beth

I missed it all too on account of a big time difference AND reading notes
in batch. It was so good I even read the rest of the string interactively
only to find Beth eating the last of the popcorn!

Linda

    Linda,
    
    We can pop some more. I missed out too but plan on taking 
    action now.
    
    Joanne who love's Mary's notes  

  Sorry about this folks, I suspect that I might be to blame for the recent
  string ... I made the mistake of leaving the DEJAVU entry in my notebook
  next to that for EF92 (EuroForum) and it appears that there's been some
  cross contamination [ not really cross-fertilization even though there's
  been a lot of fertilizer around in the last few days ].  I think that
  there's been some sort of print-through effect : as in the case of magnetic
  tape, if it is pressed together and left for a while, the field patterns
  on the separate layers start to cause noticeable effects, I compressed my
  notebook the other week and ended up with these two conferences adjacent.

  I'll have to go off and find a suitably redundant conference to separate
  them, something between ::DEJ and ::EF (::DELTA_TEAMS or ::EASYNET_TOOLS
  maybe) so their continued isolation is guaranteed.

  Frank

     RE : .57
    
    I agree . Its all your fault .
    
    Guy
    
    
    

  tank you.  its realy nice to be granted all the complete honor of these
  faults and also to know that now their is aggreement all the negativism
  has bean eradicatd.

  /frank
  spell-checking-wizard

      Thank you Frank . Its very refreshing to find somebody willing to
    admit to their own failings . I hope that those responsible for those
    dismal ( and unamusing ) remarks about popcorn will also repent .
      Then perhaps we may return to the serious task of eradicating
    negativism .
    
    
    
    
    Guy
    
    

    RE: -1
    
    Ah well, the popcorn and ham sarny references were an in-joke. HaaHaa.
    
    Laurie.

    At the risk of stating the obvious, .60 is a tad on the negative side.
    If one is trying to eradicate negativism, one doesn't go around
    accusing other people of being dismal. 
    
    Dougie

       RE : .61    
                  Perhaps we could all share the joke ; I'm sure it will
    prove to be hilarious . Yawn .
    
       RE : .62
                  Yes it was rather obvious . To dismiss a constructive
    comment as negative is a contradiction .
    
    
    
    Guy
    
    
                    

>   <<< Note 1733.63 by PEKING::WARBURTONG "Is it herbal deficiency Doc??!" >>>
>
>       RE : .61    
>                  Perhaps we could all share the joke ; I'm sure it will
>    prove to be hilarious . Yawn .

Hey Sarcasm now is it Guy? Keep practising. You might become rather good at
it one day.

Dougie

    Hands up everyone who got their wrist slapped by Topher.

    Jamie.

       
          Yes Dougie . Perhaps one day you may have something interesting
    to say . :-)
    
    
    Guy
       

    RE: .63
    
    No.
    
    Laurie.

      Re : .65
    
    I reckon that Warburtong chap should be reported to Topher . By the way
    Topher seems a bit of a funny name .
    
    
    
     Warburtong
    

    I've been reported to Topher.  **SEE NOTE 1733.23**
    
    I would like to apoligise for calling Laurie a bore.
    
    **Gary**

      RE : .69
    
     I would like to accept your apology on Laurie's behalf .
    
    
    **Guy**
    
    

    <<< Note 1733.65 by HOO78C::ANDERSON "The wettest drought on record." >>>

    Hands up everyone who got their wrist slapped by Topher.
    
me. But Topher is the most eloquent and gentle wrist slapper in the
business. I hardly felt it at all.

Dougie

    I never complained to Topher about you calling me a bore...
    
    Laurie.

    Laurie
    
    I would again like to apoligise to you for calling you a bore...  I
    can't see what the problem was though, cos' it was meant in a joking 
    context.  
    
    Guess who did'nt get a ticking by Topher...
    
    
    MR WARBURTON
    
    
    **Gary** 

     Well Gary , I'm sorry about what has happened . I have heard that that
    Topher chap can be a bit of a tyrant . But to be frank you have only
    yourslf to blame . I suggest you should read the notes at the beginning
    of this conference . When you understand the rules perhaps you will
    refrain from propogating the filthy bile we have come to expect .
    
    **Guy**
    
    
    
      

    RE 74
    
    How can you say that, when you started it all.
    
    **Gary**

    
    ****** All hail Eris ******
    
    .....or at least buy her a cup of coffee... 
    
    Back to your regularly scheduled program...

RE: .74 (**Guy**)

>    I have heard that that Topher chap can be a bit of a tyrant .

    I like to think of myself as a benevolent dictator, actually.  But
    "tyrancy is in the eyes of the beholder" as they always say.

				    Topher :-)

    
    RE : .78
    
    Don't you mean tyranny ?
    
    

RE: .79

    Why ask me?  It's what "they" always say.  Ask them!

				    Topher

    Wish these British chaps would take their monotonous chat somewhere
    where it might be better appreciated.
    
    Hope this note is seen as polite as not to get my hand slapped, but
    good grief enough is enough already...
    
    Ro
     

    "only one in ten thousand come for the show" :-)

    Wish these British chaps would take their monotonous chat somewhere
    where it might be better appreciated.
    
    Hope this note is seen as polite as not to get my hand slapped, but
    good grief enough is enough already...
    

AMEN!!!!

    Dejavu: A kinder, gentler SOAPBOX
    
    karl

    Soapbox?  New-World-Forum is more like it.. 

    
    >****** All hail Eris ******
    
    Is that who has been running amok through this conference lately?
    
    ;-)
    Beth

    
    Now where's denise???
    
    signed,
    
    tippr

    
       RE : .81
    
     Well I'm deeply offended ,especially given that this insult came from
    the land of George Bush , the Cosby's , Wayne's World , baseball ( a
    dreary type of rounders ) ,yawn , etc .
     Hands up you Brits who are insulted Ro's remark .
    
    **Guy**
    
    
    

    We'll i agree with 88 comments and I think its brilliant the way that
    Mr Warburton has taken a stand against the backlash we are currently
    suffering from the Americans.
    
    I am offended by 81 comments and I feel he has been trying to draw a
    line between the Americans and the Brits.
    
    **Gary**

    
     I dont think that Ro chap was polite .When will these Yankee insults
    stop .
    
    Terry "Bulldog" Jones
    
    

    .81 was an insult? You call THAT an insult? I can remember when insults
    were REALLY insults. I used to walk 5 miles before breakfast, buy one
    for a farthing, and still have change for t'Hovis on way home. 
    
    Dougie
    

    I am seldom insulted.
    
    Jamie.

  Re .92

  It's not for want of folk trying though ...


  Re. the SUBURB/PEKING pillocks association

  Please go back to ::WORLD_FORUM, ::SOAPBOX or even SUBURB::MUSICIANS_UK
  (to make response times better).  If you'd prefer two monosyllabic words
  by way of explanation, I'll be pleased to oblige.

  Frank

    
    Nice little show y'all are putting on here, but please....I prefer
    Wayne's World....
    
    
    guy

    It must be raining in Rio... :-)

      
    RE : 1733.93
    
    Big girl's blouse .
    
    
    Guy

    
    .89 (WAITEG)
    
    >I am offended by 81 comments and feel he has been trying to draw....
                                           ^^
    OK, now you're even.
    
    'Ro' is a 'she'.                         
    
    Cindy

    Re .97

    >gender insult

    Something you have never done Cindy?

    Jamie.

    RE: .97
    
    You don't mean gender, you mean sex. Gender is a grammatical term, and
    only words have a gender (masculine/feminine/neuter). So, since 'sex'
    isn't an adjective (nor is 'gender' for that matter), the phrase you
    are looking for is "sexual insult".
    
    Laurie.

     
    I am sorry to ave got your gender wrong Ro love but I was a bit down
    after seeing Millwall trounced by the the Arsenal .I could send you
    some of me mums jellied eels .By the way that Frank Bells a bit of a
    rude geezer .
    
    Yours
         Terry "Bulldog" Jones
    
    
    

    Re 100
    
    Why do they call you "Bulldog"
    
    Nice to see another Millwall fan and I also made a mistake with Ro's
    sex (male/female) because of Millwall V Arsenal.
    
    **gary**

    Re 1733.93
    
    >> If you prefer two monosyllabic words by way of explanation, I'll be 
    >> pleased to oblige.
    
    What words are these.
    
    
       Guy

    Apologies accepted, boys.  
    
    Gosh, you're so polite and sincere.  ;')
    
    Ro
    

    Re 103
    
    Very nice of you to take it like a man.
    
    **Gary**

    
    Jamie,
    
    Not intentionally.  There was a smiley face next to it, btw. 
    
    As a side note - have you been talking to Arie by chance? Next
    time you do, ask him to tell you my initial reaction to our 
    first phone chat. (;^)
    
    Cindy

    
    Knew I cud count on U, Laurie.
    
    Cindy

    Oh you found out then Cindy? You spent a long time making that same
    mistake in here.

    Jamie.

      
    I know I insulted you Ro but that Gary Waite has gone a bit too far and
    needs some cosmetic surgery if you get my drift .Hows about you an I
    making up a bit more personal . We  could meet up at the Kings Head on
    the Old Kent road over lambs fries and bitter .
    
    Terry "Bulldog" Jones
    
    

    I've just reed all the notes on ERADICATE NEGATIVISM and I've come to
    the conclusion that Mary Stanley is to blame for all of it.  
    
    Her sarcastic comments to Guy Warburton at the start were the making of
    the argument.  
    
    Laurie joined in on Mary's side and took it upon himself to crictise
    Annoyed or Terry 'Bulldog' Jones for taking a stand.  He then slandered
    Guy in 1733.27 by quoting "it was probably you anyway".
    
    I find it hard to believe that my own 1733.23 for calling Laurie a bore 
    in a joking context is hidden when 1733.93 who uses much stronger
    launguage isn't.  I find that personally insulting.
    
    **Gary**
    
    I don't need cosmetic surgery and if Ro's got any sense she will stay
    we'll claer of you.  I'm much nicer.
    
    Re 17:  I still wanna know your deeply felt, intense, profound and
    sensual experiance which happened in Manchester.
    

re: 1733.99 
PLAYER::BROWNL 

>    You don't mean gender, you mean sex. Gender is a grammatical term, and
>    only words have a gender (masculine/feminine/neuter). 

	Webster's Third New International Dictionary [1986] lists as the
	definition of gender:

	1.) A. (archaic): KIND, SORT.  B. SEX <black divinities of the
	    feminine gender -- Charles Dickens>

	2.) (Linguistics) A. Any of two or more subclasses within a gram-
	     matical class of a language (such as noun, pronoun, adjective,
	     verb)....

	-Art

re:           <<< Note 1733.109 by SUBURB::WAITEG "WE HATE WEST HAM" >>>
                                  -< SUMMARY >-

>    I've just reed all the notes on ERADICATE NEGATIVISM and I've come to
>    the conclusion that Mary Stanley is to blame for all of it.  
    
>    Her sarcastic comments to Guy Warburton at the start were the making of
>    the argument.  
    
I'd be interested to know what comments you found sacastic.  Do you feel better
for having placed blame?

		Dave

RE: .109

    While .93 is questionable it only addresses the content of the
    discussion.  Your comments were, however, addressed against the person,
    which is clearly and unambiguously against the rules under which DEC
    allows this conference to exist.

    Throughout history bullies have harassed, insulted, and even physically
    assaulted people for the purpose of picking a fight and then when
    called to account have defended themselves by saying "It was only a
    joke.  Can't you tell?  Don't you have a sense of humor?"

    Since we cannot determine a writer's intent -- to insult under the
    cover of humor or to amuse under the honest belief that calling people
    names is humorous -- personal insults are disallowed even for humorous
    purposes.

    I'm sorry that my decisions have offended you.  Unfortunately I have a
    responsibility to make sure that this conference follows the rules
    under which DEC allows it to operate and I must make my decisions on
    that basis.  If some note offends you, you may use EMail to contact any
    of the moderators or the notes author to complain.  Similarly, if you
    disagree with any of my decisions, you may take it up with any of the
    other moderators by EMail.  You have not, to the best of my knowledge,
    availed yourself of the recourses you have available.

    This conference is not a public forum, without any restrictions on what
    you say or do, but a private one for DEC employees and contractors run
    with a few minor restrictions -- for the most part they amount to a
    subset of the rules of good manners.  Please read note 1 and its replies.

    For now, by the way, I have allowed you to repeat the insulting remark
    which got your note hidden in the first place.  I have done so because
    they do seem germain to the point you were making -- i.e., they
    legitimately were a factor in your complaint.  If I judge, however,
    that someone is actually offended by your remarks, I will be forced to
    act in response.

					Topher

Name calling is, in my experience, fairly unusual in Digital conferences.
From my experience, most hardened 'hard' noters reply like with like.
Nothing more.

fwiw: I have no complaints with Topher's moderating decisions in this
conference, including the hiding of my notes. I have strong views on the
use (and potential abuse) of anonomous noting, but that's another topic.

Dougie

    
      Well I for one agree .Its about time all these insults stopped and
    this conference returned to its former high standard .In fact I am sick
    to death of some of the low-life which appears to infiltrated into this
    conference .
    
    Guy
    
    

    I think that you are all becoming very negative and we should do
    something to eradicate it.

    Jamie.

    
         Why is it that Jamie seems to have the last word in every note ?
    
    
    Guy
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
                                                             Jamie
    
    

    
    Re.107
    
    Jamie,
    
    Please elaborate...what mistake have I made in here?  Do you have
    some note references?   
    
    Cindy

    >Please elaborate...what mistake have I made in here?

    You have at least once, when we met last year, referred to one of the
    contributors to this conference using the wrong gender.

    Jamie.

    
    Re.118
    
    Ah...that was made outside of the conference.
          
    Cindy

    Re .119

    >better memory than me 

    Not really, I just have a tendency to take notes.

    Jamie.