Conference hydra::dejavu

    Hi Joanne,
    
    Good thought provoking questions.  As someone who is studying healing
    arts, these are questions I've asked myself.  Sometimes I doubt as
    well, but I feel that is largely the negative ego listening to old
    programs.  I find both ACIM and White Eagle material on health and
    healing useful in finding answers to these types of questions.
    
    Roey
    

    tumor.  And there was Sun Bear who developed stomach
    cancer.   Just naming a few of our spiritual leaders who

	Please don't lump Sun Bear in with OUR spiritual leaders unless we 
are going to worship making money from sacred ceremonies. On the question, I 
think every person has their own powers and abilities to heal and they just 
have to wake up to that which is already inside them. Healers don't do 
anything other than wake up the person to be healed's abilities and it 
happens all the time. I know people that have cured themselves from all 
sorts of life-threathing diseases.
	I think the reason we see any healers sick themselves is that I have 
read a lot of things dealing with that the healer takes on the person's 
sickness in order to heal them. This is especially true for Shamans who do 
this. THeir life is also dedicated to others and not themselves. Tom Mails 
who wrote the books on the famous Lakota Medicine Man and Healer Frank 
Fool's Crow, asked him why, with Frank having healed hundreds of people 
(some of which Tom witnessed), he didn't heal himself from this painfull 
condtion that he had. Frank replied that he could but he felt that Wakan 
Tanka had been so good to him that he didn't want to ask for more.

Sam

    
    Re: .0
    
    It has been argued (in various places) that the Pope and Sun Bear may
    not be all the spiritual leaders they claim to be.  This could explain
    their inability to heal their ailments.  As for the Dalai Lama and 
    glasses: is it necessary he expend the energy to correct (and not 
    necessarily heal; bad eyesight may not be an illness or injury) his vision.
    Glasses work just fine (20/20 vision is not as important as health).
    
    IMHO, Catholicism ignores a branch of spirituality that includes this
    self-healing.  They do not say it is impossible, but they do not
    promote the ability in themselves and others. (please note that I am
    refering to the Organization called the Catholic Church, not generic
    people who are Catholic by choice, being one of the latter).  Before
    the Church can promote these things, it has to heal itself from the
    years of corruption (which I believe is in progress, but boy is it
    slow).
    
    Beth

    Joanne, 
    I believe that a lot of healing is psychological as disease is
    created through our subconscious psych (psycho-somatic).  However
    I also believe that there are healers out there with highly 
    electro-magnetic fields that have the ability to heal others also.
    
    A friend of mine was diagnosed with endometrial cancer last year.
    It was recommended by the Dr. in Boston that she have surgery.  She
    refused.  She has been to healers and also meditates using 
    creative visualization.  She has also been using an internal
    herb treatment.  Her past 3 visits to her Dr. finds NO cancer.
    
    I believe her combined "natural" healing efforts have disolved
    this "cancer".  I also believe that she psychologically created
    it.
       ....just some food for thought.....
    
    WAC
    

Why does the Dalai Lama wear glasses             
    
    Because it's not a perfect world... and we are not perfect tangerines.
    :-)

    But Mary, we're all perfect in our own way :^)
    
    Joanne

The Dalai Lama walks up to a hotdog vendor and says:


 Make me one with everything!

	- rec.humor.funny (author unknown by me)

    I strongly suspect that the Dalai Lama wears glasses for exactly the
    same reasons that I wear glasses; without them he has difficulty in
    seeing. I also suspect that his powers to improve his sight by other
    than physical means are also as limited as mine.

    Jamie.

Jamie,
	RE: eyesight. I am sure that we CAN do a lot for our eyesight, but the
knowledge is generally disregarded and poo-pooed by the large industry that
feeds optricians' coffers for financial reason. I am talking about the series
of eye exercises recommended by a certain Dr. Bates. He believed that most
cases of poor eyesight are due to a degeneration of the muscles that enable
focussing. He recommended various methods for toning up and exercising these
muscles, along with methods for allowing these muscles to completely relax
for some time. I tried some of these for a while and they indeed seemed to relax
the eye muscles completely, so much so that my eyes wouldn't focus for a few
minutes afterwards.
	I had quite an interesting chat with an optician about this one time
when I went for a work-related check up. He was (not surprisingly) wary of Dr.
Bate's claims but knew much about them. I found the claims logically founded.
Why not try and find a book about these (I don't know the source myself because
the issue was a side-issue in a book I was reading about a completely different
subject)... the exercises are very easy. You could save money on glasses, or
at least notice some improvement. At worst you'd lose nothing. 

	It would be interesting to know if anyone else knows more about Dr.
Bate's claims, and even if anyone has tried the system! I have no need to as 
yet so I don't know...

(Everyone) :-) ,

�RE: Spiritual leaders

	A simple thing you may forget is that being a leader of many, many 
people is surely a great burden and hence very stressful. Stress is a great
part of the emergence of many long-term conditions. Perhaps it is that
simple!?

								- JIM CAD*

    As you get older the lens of your eye becomes harder, this causes you
    at first have difficulty focusing closely. As you age even more the
    lens becomes even harder and focusing closely becomes all but
    impossible. There is a limited amount of correction that can made by
    strengthening the muscles in your eye, but it is very marginal.

    >I am sure that we CAN do a lot for our eyesight, but the knowledge is
    >generally disregarded and poo-pooed by the large industry that feeds
    >optricians' coffers for financial reason.

    As non prescription reading glasses now cost about $6 the pair from
    drug stores, I doubt that the much favoured old conspiracy theory will
    hold much water here.

    Jamie.

    
    As far as I know (and my knowledge about this is admittedly limited),
    the Dalai Lama does not claim to be perfect or to be a healer of all
    physical ailments.  He is a spiritual leader.
    
    Carole

Jamie,
	I'm sure my mother would leap at the chance for some $6 a pair glasses!
Things have changed in the UK since our laws were changed to allow high street
stores to sell glasses. At the time I was chatting to the optician I mentioned
it was BIG BUSINESS because they had the law on the side, and a virtual 
monopoly. I think my mother had to pay �60 for a pair of not-particularly
special glasses.

	No conspiracy theory, just a big industry dealing scorn out to a threat
to their big bucks. The hardening of the lens is one of the effects that these
exercises are designed to stave off for as long as possible. No miracles were
offered. Just thought it would be an interesting read. Glasses have always
seemed a method of putting up with side effects rather than dealing with the
cause IMHO, my mother's eyesite has worsened doubly so since she has worn 
glasses, due to reliance on the "outside help", hence acceleration of cause of
problem? I don't know.

	Imagine this as an analogy. If a leg was withered to a degree that 
external measured had to be provided with no exercise of remaining muscles, I
feel sure that the leg would wither faster, especially if stronger and stronger
external help was provided instead of further attack at the root problem - the
leg withering. This is what happens with optricians usually, they can command
large charges to keep upping the "external help". Have a think about it and
see what you think. If you are interested in reading Dr. Bate's book I HAVE
remembered a place where I might be able to find the name...

								- JIM CAD*

    Well Jim trot your dear old mum round to Boots and see what they are
    charging. The last time I was there I bought the ones that I am wearing
    as I type this and they did not cost anywhere near $60. Last weekend I
    bought 2 pair in the flea market for a friend and they cost about the
    price I quoted.

    If a person goes along to the doctor complaining that they are having
    trouble reading and the doctor prescribes exercises you will find that
    in most cases the patient will ask for glasses.

    If you do not have glasses you will find that you soon suffer from eye
    strain when the muscles are asked to work much harder than they were
    designed to. Wearing glasses just reduces their effort to its former
    value. Thus the atrophy theory is not valid.

    Jamie.

    In (some of) our lifetimes, both G.I. Gurdjieff and Meher Baba endured
    life-threatening car crashes.  In both cases they indicated their
    suffering was necessary and a part of their invisible Work.
    Rumor has it that both Gurdjieff and Meher Baba performed miracles 
    for/on others.  Thus it would seem that both COULD have healed
    themselves, or have avoided the car crashes in the first place. 
    If one accepted the first premise, the second does follow.
    
    karl

    .8
    
    Jamie, that's why I wrote this note.  What I'm asking is that if
    a person is so spiritual is so in tune why then can't
    he have perfect eye sight.  The Dalai Lama is considered to be 
    the most/among the most spiritual people/person in this world.  
    Yet, if he is so in tuned why does he not have the knowledge to
    correct his own vision?   If he can't do it, then how come all
    this new age healing?  Is it a hoax or is it real?  
    
    Joanne

    Perhaps he doesn't change his vision because it's his karma or
    sanskaras to have bad vision this time around.  Only Perfect Masters
    and Avatars are karma free
    
    karl

    At about age 40-42 the elasticity of eye begins to wane and
    eyeglasses serve to compensate.  This is caused, of course, by
    all those years of masturbation as a youth.
    
    
    
    OK!!  I'm just kidding!!

    Re .15

    >Jamie, that's why I wrote this note.  What I'm asking is that if
    >a person is so spiritual is so in tune why then can't
    >he have perfect eye sight.  The Dalai Lama is considered to be 
    >the most/among the most spiritual people/person in this world.  
    >Yet, if he is so in tuned why does he not have the knowledge to
    >correct his own vision?   If he can't do it, then how come all
    >this new age healing?  Is it a hoax or is it real?  
    
    To the best of my knowledge the Dalai Lama has never claimed to have the
    power of healing, nor do I have any exceptional powers of healing.
    Therefore we both wear glasses because we have to.

    I did a bit of checking up last night and discovered the reason that I
    wear glasses is indeed because the lens of my eyes have lost their
    elasticity and not because the muscles have got weaker. 
    
    To focus on infinity I pull the lens of my eye and make it thinner, to
    focus close up I release the lens and let it spring back to its
    thickest. Alas as the natural elasticity of my lens has gone a bit over
    the years the lens does not thicken as much as it used to, so I have
    trouble reading. No amount of eye exercises will make much difference
    to this.

    Jamie.
                                                              

Jamie,
	Don't take my words TOO literally. I am quoting something I read a
fair time ago. I haven't read the book. I say this because you reminded me
of one of the exercises, which was simply to focus alternately on something
distant then QUICKLY close-up then distant... of course I can't remember
details but that's the gist of it, to "practice" focussing. I said the
exercises were simple! Another was to relax and keep either the palm of the
hand or a finger tip for each gently resting on the closed eyelids and to
concentrate deeply on the blackness for (x amount of time). This would allow
the muscles (NOTE: perhaps it WAS actually the LENS I mean) to completely
relax. I wasn't meaning the muscles around the eyeball at all, so it's likely
I simply got the terminology wrong.

	Put it this way, I am sure Dr. Bates knew more about the reasons than
I do so it could be an interesting exercise to look up the book so I can tell
you just what he DID say! I am sure HE knew the reasons for failing eyesight
too. My point was not to contend the reason for poor eyesite, merely to suggest
a look at this book because the exercises were so simple and the results
easily testable...

	The Dalai Lama obviously hasn't read the book either! :-)

	Also, as I said, at the time I mentioned in my note, my mother 
DEFINITELY did pay �60 because AT THAT TIME high-street stores weren't 
allowed to offer prescription glasses. I know it HAS changed.

								- JIM CAD*

                      
    Joanne,
    
    There could be any number of reasons why the HH The Dalai Lama wears 
    glasses, as is noted in the prior responses.  (B^)
    
    Now that the physical realm has been discussed in detail....
    
    Esoterically speaking, I do not think that he has claimed to be a
    perfect master or an avatar.  If he is not, then it could very well be
    his own karma he is working out.  If he is, then it is his choice to 
    do so completely consciously, for reasons that we can only guess.
    
    True gurus have the ability to take on the karma of disciples to speed
    up their growth.  Yogananda did this in his later years.  He would
    choose to be paralyzed to bear the burden of the karma for a disciple,
    or many disciples, thereby working their debt out through his own body.  
    The Dalai Lama could very well be doing the same.
    
    There is one more thing - Christ, with his esoteric abilities, could
    very well have chosen to avoid being nailed on the cross altogether. 
    With his powers, he could have simply dematerialized. But instead, he 
    chose to do it, to pay off the karmic debt of those who lived at the 
    time.  In that way he 'saved' them from having to go through the
    inevitable pain themselves.  
    
    As an aside, I notice that if my 6th chakras are blocked (back and/or
    front), my sight is affected - things tend to get more blurry beyond 
    the astigmatism I have.  So it could be a blocked chakra too.  (;^)
    
    Cindy 

    So, the Dalai Lama wears eyeglasses.  What does that say about Billy Graham
    having Parkinson's Disease??
    
    Life happens!!
    
    Richard

    
    >Life happens!!
    
    That's not the usual phrase, Richard.
    
    Yer GB,
    
    Cindy

Feces manifest?

								- JIM CAD*

    I think it has to do with a misconception of what perfection is... as
    far as I can determine... perfection isn't perfect... 
    
    I mean.. we are in our *natural* state perfect... as we are.. with
    all of our imperfections included.. 
    
    It has to do with the diversity of nature.. Once everything is the same
    it crystalizes and stops growing and changing and living... 

    re .26 (Mary)
    I like your definition of perfection!
    
    re .27 (Marcos)
    I quote from a wonder-full book entitled, "New Cells, New Bodies,
    NEW LIFE!":  "Our belief that the body deceases creates not only
    aging and death, but the germs and viruses and bugs that harm or
    kill our bodies ... We have even made up internal self-destruct
    mechanisms such as cancer.  ... In reality, it is life that is
    natural, on-going, expanding life forever! It is we who have made
    up death."
    
    The book continues with exercises/processes we can do to reverse the death
    process (which we create via our belief system) and rejuvenate
    ourselves.
    

    I would suggest that the author of the book referred to in .28 has a
    less than tenuous grasp on reality (rathole alert!). Do people *really*
    believe this codswallop?
    
    Laurie.

    Re .30

    >Do people *really* believe this codswallop?

    Well they try to make us think they do.

    Jamie.

                                                 
    Re.30 and .31
    
    Laurie and Jamie,
    
    Well, it's starting to go mainstream.  Back in note 1583.10-.15, I put
    in some articles featuring Deepak Chopra, M.D., who was a
    Western-trained highly respected medical doctor (biography appears
    early on in that note string), and based on his own experiments with 
    meditation (in his case, TM), and Ayurveda, he has come to similar 
    conclusions.  His most noteworthy books are:  "Quantum Healing", 
    "Perfect Health", and "Unconditional Life".
    
    The premise is that we believe what we see, and if we see people being
    born, degenerating due to disease in later years, and dying of the
    same, then that becomes our reality - we buy into it and believe that
    essentially the same thing will happen to us.  And because our habits
    become so ingrained - the ones that are passed down through the
    generations - it's hard to break out of concensis reality and see other
    possibilities.  
    
    For example, I've been listening to my mother 'getting old' for
    decades now (she's only in her 50's), along with my 70-ish year-old 
    great-aunts who can barely take 25 steps without sitting down, yet at 
    age 70+, Jack LaLaine was pulling some large number of rowboats as he 
    swam some fairly significant body of water, and Jane Fonda has the body 
    and energy of a 20-year-old, even though she's in her early 50's as well.  
    And Gurudev at Kripalu Center, even though he's celebrating his 60th 
    birthday this year, can do yoga postures like as standing on his head 
    and folding his legs into a full lotus position upside down.  (I can't 
    even do a lotus position sitting up...yet...)  
    
    Jamie, please say 'Hi' to Harry for me too!
    
    Cindy

New Cells, New Bodies, NEW LIFE! is by Virginia Essene, ed., 1991.

I'll quote a bit from the 4-page Introduction:  "... This book explores
such issues [rejuvenation, etc.] and brings current information to
earth that is called inspired, revealed or channeled.  The participants
of these following 12 chapters will speak about this matter in very
unique ways, for they are all concerned about humanity's evolutionary
shift of the genetic code, our DNA/RNA patterns, into higher vibratory
frequency and consciousness levels.  These authors will challenge many
concepts about death as an unnatural and unnecessary condition that can
be circumvented or transformed, so be forewarned! The 12 channels included
here are not afraid to bring forth these different messages in their
various styles and energy vibrations because they know this will be
valuable.  They know the variety of information will allow you to use
soul resonance and personality discernment about what you recognize as
your truth at this particular moment in evolution.  ... Now I ask you to
join with us in this reading adventure and see it as an opportunity for
you to participate as a new breed ... an advanced consciousness that can
be free of judgment about who is right, best, accurate, and so on -- to
simply allow yourself to select what feels right in its vibration and
thought.  Pick from the potpourri what helps your own acceleration and
'leave the rest' for now, without pronouncing it bad or wrong.  Practice
what we are learning about life, which is that every one of us is different
and needs to be where we are.  Therefore, there *has* to be variety.  This
is not generally the easiest thing to do, but let's give it a serious
attempt...  Some of the readers of this book will be delighted and satis-
fied, while others may be dismayed or perplexed.  We hope you will see
that your emotional responses to the information are important teaching
tools for yourself.  Notice them because you may find many different
attitudes and feelings that are unexpected.  THIS IS PART OF THE INTENDED
EXPERIENCE.  Just notice what emotions come up for you and deal with
their very origin and nature.   It is obvious we each have strong beliefs
and defenses about those beliefs.  And of course readers are not being
required to change.  However, it could be a sorting out time, if this
appeals to you.

    To date there appear to be no reliably recorded cases of anyone
    reaching an advanced age much in excess of about 130. Everyone that I
    have seen on TV who is over 100 has been, to put it mildly, decrepit. I
    have never seen anyone of that age who looked in their prime. Now you
    may say that you don't need to let your body get like that, but they
    all do. Who wants to live forever in a body like that? I don't. 

    Some people age faster than others, my mother used to work as a night
    nurse in an old folks home, by the time she gave up the job she was
    older than half the inmates.

    But like it or not we all age and sooner or later die. Some of us are
    horrified at this prospect and go to great lengths to hide the external
    signs of aging. Others age gracefully, at one with themselves. 

    Jamie.

    The fact that it's been written in a book doesn't alter the inescapable
    fact that it's complete codswallop.
    
    Laurie.

What's codswallop?

		Dave

    Codswallop n British slang - nonsense. Origin unknown.

    Jamie.

Thanks.

	Dave

    
    The premise is that we believe what we see, and if we see people being
    born, degenerating due to disease in later years, and dying of the
    same, then that becomes our reality - we buy into it and believe that
    essentially the same thing will happen to us.  And because our habits
    become so ingrained - the ones that are passed down through the
    generations - it's hard to break out of concensis reality and see other
    possibilities.  


I don't know about living forever. But, even in the mainstream, it's 
becoming well known that we create our own health or dis-eases, and our own 
reality. I believe and what I am studying involves the law of Cause and 
Effect. The principal world is the one of thought, the mental world and 
those thoughts (or causes) manifest themselves as actions in the physical 
world. We create our own realities, we create this so-called physical world 
because so many people are buying into the same thing. As the above states, 
these habits become ingrained through the years and everyone keeps buying 
into the same thing.
	For myself, I have found that I have changed my relaity quite a bit 
by changing my thought paterns. I had lots of sickness a few years ago 
becuse of all the negative thinking that I was doing and a lot of awfull 
thought paterns. I am quite healthy now (18 sinus infections/year down to 
none for example).
	I have not seen anyone live beyond age 130 or so either but I don't 
know if that is a limitation in thought paterns. Intent is a very powerfull 
thing used in a good way.

Aho Mitakuye Oyasin
Sam

    One day they told me that my quality of life was about to degenerate to
    the point where it would no longer be sustainable. They didn't say I
    was going to die, they pussyfooted around that.

    Now I did not believe them. However they were quite right and no matter
    how hard I fought to stay alive I realised that I really was dying. 
    
    What really irked me was the simplicity of my problem, the blood was
    not being moved round my body fast enough. This single thing affected
    so many other parts of my body and I felt really ill. I do not believe
    that any of this was caused by me believing that I was going to die. 

    Now given a replacement heart all the problems of blood circulation
    went immediately, sure I had some new problems, but at last my fighting
    back began to work and 16 days later I walked unaided, a very important
    point for me, out of the hospital.

    As a child I watched people grow old, I didn't believe I was going to
    grow old, but I did. My cat grew old and died, no one told her to and
    there were no other cats in the house to set an example to her. So I
    think that the theory, that watching others die is the reason we die,
    holds no water.

    Jamie.
                                                                         

It's great money-spinner though, isn't it. Appeal to our BIGgest fear, and
give the gullible hope that somehow THEY can transcend what the rest of us
mortals are resigned to suffer, ageing and death. Strange, therefore how the
New-Age or spiritualist movement is not chock full of octogenarian spring
chickens? 

								- JIM CAD*

    Re .42

    >Strange, therefore how the New-Age or spiritualist movement is not
    >chock full of octogenarian spring chickens?

    A bit like buying hair restorer from a bald barber?

    Jamie.

    I have great problems not seeing the entire New Age 'movement' as being
    orchestrated by money-hungry charlatans, preying on the fears and
    deep-seated insecurities of people living in an age where family life
    has almost died out, and extended familes (including friends) no longer
    exist to offer support and help. Leeching on people who live solitary,
    meaningless lives, desperate to find some meaning to it all, clinging
    to anything that will help them focus their life. Leeching on people
    who seem prepared to believe anything they say or write if it helps
    them shut out that uncomfortable feeling their insecurity gives them.
    
    Laurie.

    Laurie,
    	That's great! I feel so fulfilled. �10 is in the post to you! ;-)
    
    								- JIM CAD*

    :-)

    
    More likely, the "new age" movement was not started by charletans, but
    they sure have taken advantage of it.
    
    The core of this movement really appears to me to be people examining
    all of their options, including those that were discarded by zealots of
    the past.
    
    Beth

    Gee... that's the best description of it I've ever heard.

          
    Joanne,
    
    Last week, as you know, I was out at Kripalu, and in the presence of
    many swamis, gurus, and yogis.
    
    One elderly swami in particular - Swami Brahmanand Saraswati - really
    captured the hearts of all of us who were present.  He is now in his
    late 80's, or early 90's, and a very loving being.  Even Gurudev kept
    saying over and over that the Kripalu ashram was especially blessed
    because of his presence.  So you can be sure that he is very special.
    
    Swami founded the Ananda ashram somewhere in upstate New York.  He
    travels with 4 disciples - two men, and two women.  The women are
    closest to him, as they translate what the swami is saying.  It's not
    that he doesn't speak English, but that he suffered from a stroke back
    in 1984, and for quite a while, could not do anything.  He could not
    speak, nor walk, nor write.  He was completely paralyzed on his right
    side.
    
    Today, he can now walk with minimal help, however his right arm is not
    functioning.  He can talk, however he cannot make himself easily 
    understood, so the women - who are very tuned into what he is saying - 
    speak for him.  They repeat to the audience whatever he says. 
    
    The reason I'm writing this is to tell you of the most amazing part.
    Although he has suffered a tremendous physical hardship, in fact he
    knows that his stroke was a gift from God.  Up until that time, he was
    going around, involved in the busywork of the various ashrams, and this
    took away from his time inward.  When he got the stroke and was totally
    incapacitated, he finally realized God and became fully enlightened.
    Were it not for the stroke, this probably wouldn't have happened.
    
    He went on to say that he hopes we all become enlightened too...and
    that he prays we don't have to go through what he has gone through in 
    order to get there.  So even though he is very much physically impaired, 
    he is ever residing inwardly in tremendous bliss - the kind that we can 
    yet only imagine.  I felt some of it by being in his presence. 
    
    He tells the most 'charming' stories too.  (;^)
    
    God truly works in mysterious ways.
    
    Cindy

    Cindy,
    
    Thanks.  That's a wonderful story and gives a optimistic view
    of a bad experience.  I really appreciated it.  
    
    Joanne