| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1710.1 | A Passion for Death | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Sat Aug 15 1992 14:34 | 131 |
| A Passion for Death - An Interview with Andrew Cohen
Q: Andrew, you talk a lot about Enlightenment in your teaching. People have
very different ideas about what Enlightenment is. What is Enlightenment?
A: Enlightenment is a condition in which there is a conscious knowing that
one has come to the end of becoming. To be *fully* Enlightened means to
come to the end of evolution, the end of any possibility of evolution. Even
people who only glimpse what Enlightenment is for a brief period have
intimations of the kind of finality that I'm speaking about. It is the
element of finality that makes that kind of knowing that I'm speaking about
so extraordinary and so difficlut to describe to people who haven't tasted
it.
Q: What does that mean, finality? It sounds incredibly Absolute.
A: It *is* Absolute. It's the end of becoming, the end of any possibility
of becoming ever again. I'm trying to describe to you a condition where one
comes to a place where there is only knowing. From that place one can't go
anywhere.
Q: That's the end of evolution?
A: Yes, it's the end of evolution of the individual. The end of evolution
happens when the individual has completely died and is gone forever, never
to return again. What I'm speaking about is the end. The end is the goal of
all true seeking and should really be the only thing that a sincere seeker
is interested in if they're serious. I'm saying this because it's so easy
to get distracted. Most people lose sight of the goal I'm speaking about
after only just beginning to truly awaken.
Q: That's what you teach - the end of evolution, as you said, where there
is only knowing?
A: Yes, but I have found that to accept the end I'm speaking about
unconditionally from the very beginning - most people have a lot of trouble
doing that.
Q: Why is this?
A: Because of karma. To be able to accept fully the Enlightened condition
without conditions one has to be willing to leave everything else behind
*forever*. To do this successfully one has to come almost to the end of
one's karmic stream.
Q: Does that mean that somehow it's predetermined?
A: No. In every individual there's an unknown factor that no one can second
guess. People can change at any time and are capable of taking
extraordinary leaps at the most unexpected moments.
Q: So it's not fixed?
A: No, nothing is fixed. Anything is possible at any moment. That's the good
news, but very few people have the courage to believe it. Because if an
individual accepts that anything is possible at any moment, then that means
they would have to consider that maybe even they could abondon all of their
conditioning in an instant. To get someone to have the courage to actually
do that, and do it without hesitation and without fear, is quite rare. I
have found that many people, even in spite of having taken great leaps into
the unknown and who have tasted deeply the Enlightened condition, can still
all to easily be deceived by the creations of their own mind, by unexamined
assumptions about the nature of reality and by memory. To be able to truly
renounce all of it absolutely and abandon all of it absolutely is quite a
rare achievement. It takes a lot of courage to stand alone in the unknown.
Q: What is needed from a person in order to realize this kind of depth?
A: Courage and passion for death.
Q: Passion for death?
A: Passion for death. Passion for death in this life. Passion for total
renunciation of the known. There has to be a passion for living in
uncharted waters.
Q: Wow!
A: It's a completely different way of living where everything is always
unknown - when one is constantly in the condition I was describing before
of only knowing. You see?
Q: Only knowing?
A: Only knowing. Only knowing. In this knowing there is no falling back to
anything and there is also no movement towards anything.
Q: Is that the end of becoming?
A: Yes. Yes.
Q: Would that be the essence of you teaching?
A: Yes.
Q: Why are you so controversial?
A: Because of my passion for death.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...there has been a passion and an intensity that comes out of me when I
am teaching and when I am speaking about the truth that I cannot control
and that literally overwhelms me. This passion that comes from nowhere and
burns so deeply in my veins is the truth itself. It is this passion that
has from the very beginning forced me to tell the truth and to never
deceive anyone else about the reality of their own condition. It is this
passion that has caused many to feel threatened. The intensity of my call
has always demanded everything that a person is able to give - one's whole
heart and all of one's soul to the source itself, from which arises nothing
but perfect freedom, true knowledge and the exquisite happiness of knowing
that one has come home forever. Truly, there is no other way if one wants
to be FREE."
from "Autobiography of an Awakening"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extracted from "What Is Enlightenment?" Volume 1, Number 1 - a publication
of Moksha Foundation, 39 Edison Avenue, Corte Madera, CA 94925 - Tel: (415)
927-3210 Fax: (415) 927-2032
"What Is Enlightenment?" is dedicated to the continuing investigation and
discovery of what Enlightenment is. It is published two times a year by the
Moksha Foundation, a non-profit organization founded to support the
teaching work of Andrew Cohen.
"I have found and continue to find that there is so much confusion,
misunderstanding and misinformation as to what Enlightenment actually is
and what it really means. That is why I have encouraged my students to
start this publicatin as a vehicle to present our ongoing investigation
into this question, and to share our discoveries with those who are also
interested in this vast and most subtle subject." - Andrew Cohen
|
| 1710.2 | KGNU interview | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Sat Aug 15 1992 14:37 | 59 |
| What We Do is Who We Are
The following is an excerpt from a KGNU radio interview with Andrew Cohen in
boulder, Colorado in September 1991.
Q: So I think a good place to start would be for you to describe really
what it is that you do. In what sense are you a teacher and what is your
teaching really about?
A: What I teach is Enlightenment.
Q: What do you mean when you use that word, Enlightenment?
A: Enlightenment is the end of the path, it's that pot of gold at the end of
the rainbow. It's the end of all human striving.
Q: Is Enlightenment an experience?
A: Hopefully not. For most people it usually remains to be, but for a few
people, for rare people that are very lucky and very fortuante and very
sincere, definitely not. Do you know what that means? If something's an
experience, it means that it's bound in time.
Q: Talk a little bit about your teaching method.
A: It's direct.
Q: I noticed that. You don't come out and give a prepared talk. You simply
enter the room and you ask for questions, and it seems like most of what
goes on there is between you and the questioner.
A: I find, especially speaking about spiritual matters, that it's very
important to speak directly to the individual, because most people have so
many ideas they have that are interfering with their own direct perception
of what they're looking for.
Q: I recall a teaching - that a teacher really has nothing to share with his
students or here students other than his or her being.
A: That's right.
Q: And that all the talking, in a sense, is a subterfuge.
A: No, no, I think that what comes out of our mouths is an expression of
what we know ahd who we are. What we do is who we are. And that's something
quite challenging. A lot of people disagree with it and find that hard to
accept and hard to understand, but I think that it's very important for
people to realize that tremendous effects come out of what we do. What we
do is who we are. What we know is what we do.
Q: In what way do you feel responsible?
A: I feel absolutely responsible. Absolute responsibility for someone who
is deadly serious can't be avoided - even though it usually is.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extracted from "What Is Enlightenment?" Volume 1, Number 1 - a publication
of Moksha Foundation, 39 Edison Avenue, Corte Madera, CA 94925 - Tel: (415)
927-3210 Fax: (415) 927-2032
|
| 1710.3 | Impersonal Enlightenment | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Sat Aug 15 1992 14:37 | 148 |
| Two Dialogues on Impersonal Enlightenment
Dialogue 1
Q: You mentioned Personal Enlightenment and Impersonal Enlightenment.
What's the difference?
A: In the first, the interest in Enlightenment is for personal gain. That
means: "I want to have a particualr insight, a patricular experience or a
particular understanding - because I want relief from suffering or because
it fascinates me, etc." The second refers to the discovery of an interest
in Enlightenment for its *own* sake - not for *your* sake.
Q: Do you mean for the good of everyone, or just for its own sake?
A: For its own sake. For its own sake will be for the good of everyone -
that will be the result, but that is not the idea in mind. When I speak
about Impersonal Enlightenment I am speaking about a condition where one is
so hopelessly enamored with the Truth itself that one is completely lost in
it. In that total immersion, the living fact of Enlightenment itself and
all that it implies and signifies, has become the sole love of you life.
It's not for your sake anymore. It's only for its own sake, for the sake of
Enlightenment itself.
Q: Does Personal Enlightenment eventually lead to Impersonal Enlightement?
A: Not necessarily.
Q: Isn't one liberated from duality in Personal Enlightenment?
A: Yes, but then the realization of nonduality occurs within the context of
the personal.
Q: So then you're saying that the Enlightenment becomes limited somehow by
the personal?
A: Yes. It's delicate. It's a very delicate matter. Listen, Personal
Enlightenment is a secret. In Personal Enlightenment you are living
incognito. You know the Truth, but it's a secret. It's a secret that only
you know about. But because you know that's fine with you, you don't care
because you are free. That's Personal Enlightenment. That is quite an
extraordinary event in itself and no doubt very rare. But I'm speaking
about something different. I'm speaking about something that is not a
secret anymore. I'm speaking about something that cannot be a secret
anymore. Because the kind of secrecy and the inherent compormise that must
take place in the condition of Personal Enlightenmtnt becomes an impossible
possibility in the condition of Impersonal Enlightenment. There is an
inherent compromise in living a secret even if it is an extraordinary
secret, because in the realization and practice of Personal Enlightenment
one "fits in" and tolerates the inherent compromise in and of the "world."
the world here represents the conditon of accumulated ignorance that the
world mind is - that he or she who is supposedly Enlightened, has
transcended and gone beyond.
Q: What is the difference in how one knows the personal and impersonal?
A: For someone looking from the outside or from the point of view of the
knower himself?
Q: The knower himself?
A: In Personal Enlightenment compromise does not trouble the Enlightened
one. In the Impersonal condition that kind of compromise is not a
possibility.
Q: What is the compromise?
A: Fitting in.
Q: So in Personal Enlightenment there is no motive left to change anything?
A: Right, exactly. In Personal Enlightenment the person doesn't care
because they have achieved a self-satisfied condition of freedom and
personal liberation. Beyond personal liberation there is a profound
discovery of something else. One comes upon a particualr sense of urgency
where one can't help but care. You have to go way beyond Personal
Enlightenment to even begin to know what I'm talking about.
Q: Go way beyond it?
A: Yes. Destroy it even! Then and only then will the kind of caring I'm
speaking about reveal itself - before that it can't.
Q: But once you get a glimpse of freedom and you see that you don't exist
in the way you thought you had existed, where is the motive to change? who
do you want to change and why?
A: A glimpse of the Absolute is a glimpse of the destruction of the known
and of everything that has been created. In that glimpse you realize that
there is nowhere to go and nothing to do. You discover that there is no one
to become and therefore nothing to change. Beyond that, beyond that point
is a condition where one is overcome with a tremendous sense of urgency and
purpose that has nothing at all to do with you.
Q: Would that come from the Absolute itself?
A: I couldn't come from anywhere else.
Dialogue 2
Q: could you give some examples of what the difference is between Personal
Enlightenment and Impersonal Enlightenment?
A: What is the difference between a burning match and a raging fire?
Q: It's difficult to understand.
A: To find this kind of understanding you have to feel deeply in your
heart.
Q: it seems like the forest fire has to spread.
A: Yes, but it means and impliies much more than that. It is the discovery
of a choiceless and absolute commitment to the realzation of perfect purity
in yourself for the sake of all beings - not for you. This is something
very sacred and very delicate and has to be discovered individually on a
very deep level. The effect of this discovery, this realization, is very
explosive and it will affect other people by the fact of its mere existence
- but in it, there is no idea whatsoever to "help" anybody else. There is
only complete, choicelses, one-pointed devotion to the realization of
perfection and a knowing of the urgency and necessity of that. There is an
evolutionary urgency, an evolutionary necessity that some people come upon
and when discovered, they will do whatever it takes to succeed perfectly.
Q: Is Personal Enlightenment a prerequisite for this?
A: No, not necessarily. Some are able to leap directly to the perspective
I'm referrring to, while others will be unable to comprehend or perceive
what I'm speaking about before the realization of Personal Enlightenment,
while still others may never be able to comprehend it or perceive it. If
you are lucky, eventually you will come to the point where the idea of
personal freedom is no longer what allures you, no longer what interests
you. What allures you will be something way beyond that, and the discovery
of that evolutionary urgency will become your passion, your only love and
your sole reason for existence.
What I'm speaking about cannot be contained. Because of this it
frightens people. Because for this kind of absolute transformation love has
to be so deep - you have to have so much love in your heaart, because
otherwise it won't be possible. In what I'm describing there are no
boundaries, and the implications of that are revolutionary.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extracted from "What Is Enlightenment?" Volume 1, Number 1 - a publication
of Moksha Foundation, 39 Edison Avenue, Corte Madera, CA 94925 - Tel: 5)
927
|
| 1710.4 | brief biography | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Sat Aug 15 1992 14:39 | 59 |
|
Biography of Andrew Cohen
Andrew Cohen is a teacher of Enlightenment. He was born in New York City
in 1955. A spontaneous spiritual awakening at the age of sixteen inspired
Andrew to abandon his worldly aspirations six years later and devote
himself to a rigorous spiritual search. After years of spending time with
various teachers and practicing different forms of meditation, his quest
for final Liberation was still unfulfilled. Then he heard about a
little-known teacher in India named H.W.L. Poonja and went to visit him.
This unexpected meeting ended his search. A profound realization
immediately reawakened what he had glimpsed as a youth and in a few short
weeks all of his fundamental questions were answered, leaving Andrew
radically transformed and fully immersed in a deep understanding of his own
true nature. His teacher soon told him that their work together was over
and that Andrew should now go out and help others. He said that Andrew was
the man he had been waiting for his entire life and he wanted Andrew to
"accept responsibility for the work."
It was soon apparent that Andrew had an extraordinary ability to
communicate his understanding to others. In fact, he had no choice in the
matter. His surrender was so deep that what he had realized was
spontaneously expressing itself in his every action and word. Since his
meeting with his teacher over six years ago, Andrew has been giving
teachings throughout the world. At present, he lives in Northern California
with his community of formal students.
Since he began teaching, Andrew's direct and radical approach has proven
challenging for many. There has been much controversy about his bold claim
that Enlightenment is possible here and now for anybody who truly wants to
be free and that its attainment is not dependent on practice or technique.
A crucial element of Andrew's teaching is that one's actions are not
separate from who they are, but actually express the depth of one's
understanding. His insistence that one must fully live what they have
realized has been widely misunderstood. Many have been unable to grasp the
depth and subtlety that his teaching has reached - even his own teacher has
responded with disinterest and negativity. Also over the past two years,
Andrew has been forced to face the painful fact of his teacher's dishonesty
and duplicity in their relationship. His struggle to come to terms with
this has compelled him to deepen his investigation of the Enlightened
condition. Unwilling to compromise his bold stand that one cannot separate
behavior from the depth of realization, he has been forced to stand alone
in what he knows to be tree. Andrew's passionate interest in sharing what
he has realized and summoning others to that same understanding is thriving
as the rarity of his teaching is more widely recognized. The purity and
fervor of his call for true understanding and evolution is awakening the
desire for Liberation in the hearts of many.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extracted from "What Is Enlightenment?" Volume 1, Number 2 - a publication
of Moksha Foundation, 39 Edison Avenue, Corte Madera, CA 94925 - Tel: (415)
927-3210 Fax: (415) 927-2032
"What Is Enlightenment?" is dedicated to the continuing investigation and
discovery of what Enlightenment is. It is published two times a year by the
Moksha Foundation, a non-profit organization founded to support the
teaching work of Andrew Cohen.
|
| 1710.5 | Corruption, Purity, Enlightenment - part 1 | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Sat Aug 15 1992 14:40 | 60 |
|
Corruption, Purity and Enlightenment - Part 1 of 3
by Andrew Cohen
The search for perfect understanding is always wrought with confusion
because one is seeking for final answers to very difficult and challenging
questions. In that search one dares to reach beyond normal boundaries, and
when one endeavors to find that experience that would answer every question
it is imperative sooner or later to take a big risk. What is the risk? The
risk is allowing oneself to trust. This crisis of trust is unavoidable.
Sooner or later on the spiritual journey one will come to a point where a
leap of faith - a leap of trust - will be required. For many this leap
occurs in the context of a relationship with a spiritual teacher.
These days there is a strong current of cynicism about the possibility
of purity in spiritual authority. Indeed most authorities have failed to
uphold or demonstrate perfection as any reliable possibility. Too many of
those who have claimed Enlightenment have been found to be corrupt to some
degree or other in spite of extraordinary spiritual attainments. This has
been very destructive as it has created an atmosphere of disillusionment
and skepticism.
People must be allowed to believe that it *is* possible for a human
being to go all the way. This becomes a real possibility *only* when one
who claims to have arrived is able to clearly explain and practically
demonstrate that attainment. It is that individual's responsibility to
prove that it is indeed possible to rise up out of the mess of corruption,
compromise and ensuing confusion that is the norm in our time. But the
burden of responsibility for corruption equally lies on the shoulders of
those who claim to aspire to spiritual emancipation in this life. Only
those individuals who are incorruptible in the purity of their desire for
Liberation will prevent the continuance of the mess of confusion and
corruption that is the norm in the spiritual world today. Those who would
complain that hypocrisy and corruption in spiritual authorities is too
easily accepted, tolerated and even condoned, must look deeply to find out
what degree of compromise and confusion they are willing to hide behind in
themselves.
Like attracts like. Corruption attracts itself. A seeker who is willing
to settle for less than everything will seek a mentor who would need the
shelter of that kind of compromise. A seeker who wants to go all the way,
who cannot settle for less than everything, would never be able to bear
shadows of impurity, just as a mentor who has truly gone all the way would
never accept willingness to compromise in a seeker who claims, "I want to
be free."
If a person wants to be truly free then there is no one in the world who
will be able to stop them - but who has the courage to stand alone in the
Truth?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extracted from "What Is Enlightenment?" Volume 1, Number 2 - a publication
of Moksha Foundation, 39 Edison Avenue, Corte Madera, CA 94925 - Tel: (415)
927-3210 Fax: (415) 927-2032
"What Is Enlightenment?" is dedicated to the continuing investigation and
discovery of what Enlightenment is. It is published two times a year by the
Moksha Foundation, a non-profit organization founded to support the
teaching work of Andrew Cohen.
|
| 1710.6 | part 2 | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Sat Aug 15 1992 14:40 | 70 |
|
Everything Must Be Questioned - Part 2 of 3
by Andrew Cohen
Any exploration of corruption in the spiritual life necessitates a
rigorous and courageous investigation of oneself. This demands an unusual
interest in the discovery and realization of the Truth alone.
What does this mean? This means that the individual who would aspire to
claim Enlightenment must be able and willing to discriminate. Without
discrimination, a clear and unconfused understanding, untainted by
contradiction, will be impossible to realize.
Most human beings are so easily distracted by thoughts and feelings, and
motivated mainly by fear and desire. Because of this, even those who aspire
to emancipation usually lack the presence of attention and the intensity of
interest necessary to cut through any and every potential obstruction to
perfect clarity. Even a trace of desire or fear that remains unexamined
will automatically distort perception. Only that individual who possesses
the intensity of interest to fearlessly avoid nothing will be able to see
things as they are to the degree necessary to realize that vision that is
unobscured and perfect in its clarity.
When one dares to look deeply enough, one comes upon an unexpected
discovery: that usually any perspective or view that is taken up by an
individual as being "ultimate" or "Absolute" when closely scrutinized most
often reveals a fixed position that has been taken up unwittingly by the
individual in order to confirm or affirm unexamined assumptions and ideas.
It is the fear of the unknown and the psychological and emotional need to
*know* that obscures that view that is undefiled and uncorrupted by any
idea rooted in fear of desire.
The highest goal of Enlightened understanding is the realization of that
perspective that is truly unfettered by any fear, desire or karmic tendency
that could influence or obstruct that attainment. The only way an
individual will be able to realize that perspective that is always
perfectly unobstructed is to, without reservation, courageously put all of
his or her cards on the table. That means all previous assumptions and
conclusions about the nature of reality, relative and absolute, must be
questioned. This questioning must be undertaken with the utmost precision
and care. Even hope must be abandoned in order to make room for the Truth
to be able to reveal itself as it is. When there are no hiding places left
and no hidden agendas whatsoever, then and only then can the mystery of
creation begin to reveal itself. In that mystery the science of causation,
of cause and effect, is seen in all its starkness for the first time, and
then the startling and overwhelming fact of the impersonality of creation
is revealed. In that revelation alone is salvation. Only in that revelation
can individuality be truly founded in Truth. The root of all spiritual
corruption and wrong views lies in the absence or imperfection of this
attainment. To see clearly, to see things as they are, is to perceive the
inherent order of all things. It is because any and every desire or
motivation with any root in the personal will obscure the clear perception
of that perfect order, that it is imperative that any and every vestige of
personal motivation be destroyed.
Without the unbroken perception of the inherent order of all things, an
understanding of the nature of reality, that is perfectly consistent, will
be an impossibility.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extracted from "What Is Enlightenment?" Volume 1, Number 2 - a publication
of Moksha Foundation, 39 Edison Avenue, Corte Madera, CA 94925 - Tel: (415)
927-3210 Fax: (415) 927-2032
"What Is Enlightenment?" is dedicated to the continuing investigation and
discovery of what Enlightenment is. It is published two times a year by the
Moksha Foundation, a non-profit organization founded to support the
teaching work of Andrew Cohen.
|
| 1710.7 | part 3 | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Sat Aug 15 1992 14:40 | 50 |
|
Realize Perfect Consistency - Part 3 of 3
by Andrew Cohen
What is the perfect expression of that inexpressible Absolute that has
no opposites and recognizes only itself?
At the deepest level of realization one comes to the discovery of a
perfect consistency. In this perfect consistency there are no opposites of
any kind and absolutely no contradictions.
A spiritual perspective or view that lacks perfect consistency is
corrupt because it casts an imperfect reflection of that Absolute that is
by its nature perfectly consistent. Likewise, the perfect expression of
that kind of attainment by definition would *have* to be the purest
expression of consistency. How could it be otherwise?
It is the demonstration of that consistency that is itself the expression
of the highest spiritual attainment because it is living proof that all
karmic tendencies can in fact be destroyed. It is precisely because of the
fact that the most profoundly awakened human beings have expressed and
manifested that realization without contradiction that the power of their
message was so extraordinary and impact so explosive.
When that perfect clarity has been realized that is undefiled by any
karmic residue and any hint of personal motive, its expression will only
reflect that perfection that is undivided, and therefore, perfectly
consistent.
Division of any kind always implies opposition. The perfect realization
of the Absolute is the discovery of that understanding which has no
opposite and in the realization of which there could be no other. The
reflection of that realization in a human being, when perfectly untainted,
always can be recognized as an expression of no opposites, because in that
realization all karmic tendencies in a human being have been burned out. In
such a one the very ground in which the seeds of ignorance can be sown
literally no longer exists, and therefore, the seeds of division, conflict
and separation, which all are expression of opposing tendencies, have been
destroyed forever.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extracted from "What Is Enlightenment?" Volume 1, Number 2 - a publication
of Moksha Foundation, 39 Edison Avenue, Corte Madera, CA 94925 - Tel: (415)
927-3210 Fax: (415) 927-2032
"What Is Enlightenment?" is dedicated to the continuing investigation and
discovery of what Enlightenment is. It is published two times a year by the
Moksha Foundation, a non-profit organization founded to support the
teaching work of Andrew Cohen.
|
| 1710.8 | corruption in gurus | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Sun Aug 16 1992 14:35 | 110 |
|
Spiritual Slavery and Prostitution of the Soul
A dialogue with Andrew Cohen
This dialogue investigates how and why students are often willing to
condone, support and even participate in the unethical behavior of their
teachers.
Q: I'm very confused about this matter of ethical conduct and its
relationship to the Enlightened understanding that you speak so much about.
Why is it that so many gurus seem to be prey to the very same weaknesses as
ordinary people? I would have thought that an ego that had died would not
be able to act in the same selfish way as people who did not claim to be
Enlightened.
A: Maybe in the cases that you are speaking about, the ego *didn't* die.
Maybe in these cases, there is a fully intact ego coexisting with a
profound realization. Most people don't realize that ego and profound
realization can coexist. It is for that reason that so many people have
gotten in trouble.
Q: But I don't understand how even after the failings of the guru have
become obvious, people will still allow themselves to be taken advantage
of. They often will continue to be followers in the face of unethical
behavior, and in some cases even gross abuse.
A: Often when a person meets a teacher in whom the Absolute is manifesting
to a powerful degree, their heart will open up unexpectedly. They may
experience unusual insight and understanding just through mere association
with this kind of extraordinary individual. After this kind of experience
it is easy to understand how one may get very attached to that individual.
The bond that is formed through experiences like these runs very deep.
Slowly without even realizing it, in order to protect the love an beauty of
that precious event, the person starts to be willing to overlook things.
The minute that begins, they become corrupt themselves.
Q: Is that when they start to rationalize?
A: Yes, then they become corrupt, in the same way the guru is. When you try
to talk to the disciples of these gurus about simple virtues, they often
are unable to make any sense. Also, they will frequently say things like,
"Ethical conduct and Enlightenment have nothing to do with each other" in
an attempt to justify the confusing behavior of their guru. The minute
anybody allows themselves to tolerate corruption they become a part of it.
These people desperately don't want to see the depth of the corruption that
they themselves are immersed in. The security of their spiritual well-being
*depends* on the fact that no matter what, the actions of the guru are
*never* questioned. Because their hearts are so invested in the guru, they
will make almost any rationalization or justification for the guru's
actions. They will do almost anything in order to protect that love that
the guru has revealed to them. This is spiritual slavery and prostitution
of the soul. In weak-minded people the seal of Enlightenment becomes a
license for abuse.
Q: How is it then with the matter of trust? Does one ultimately only
surrender to one's own knowing of the truth?
A: Yes.
Q: Then *not* to the guru?
A: Ultimately the guru and your knowing of truth should be one and the
same. There shouldn't be any difference. If there is, there's something
wrong. That means there is either something wrong in your idea of what the
truth is and your experience of what the truth is, or there's some defect
in the guru. Ideally they should be perfectly synonymous.
Q: But shouldn't surrender be to truth alone?
A: But in a sense that's all people surrender to anyway. They surrender to
their own experience. If you go to a teacher and you have a powerful
experience, it's that *experience* that you surrender to. What usually
happens next though, is that you get involved with the personality of the
teacher. Powerful experience makes you hungry for more. That's why people
get more involved. They want to get to know who this guru is. They fall in
love and then want to be more intimate. Then they get involved with the
personality of the teacher. At that point it's no longer just a spiritual
experience; they begin to get involved with a human personality. That's
when the trouble starts, that's when it's going to begin.
When the personality of the guru and the love and beauty that the guru
revealed begin to conflict with each other, that means something is wrong.
As I said before, people are weak, weak-minded, and if someone is truly
Enlightened, they will have a very powerful mind and be very charismatic.
People are easily overwhelmed by that. Because their heart has been
awakened, because they have been deeply touched by something, they often
don't care about anything else. And in order to protect that experience,
they will often tolerate just about anything. This is dangerous. This is a
corrupt condition that a great deal of the spiritual world is in these
days. If the guru is corrupt and you're intimately involved with the guru,
you can't help but be corrupt yourself. It's unavoidable. By association
it's an automatic result. It's a very delicate business.
Q: So how does one discern? To what degree do I question my own perception
and trust?
A: Just go by the basics. There are some very basic, ethical laws that
anybody who's not insane knows. They are not esoteric.
Q: So where do you draw the line?
A: The line is drawn where suffering is caused to other people due to
selfish actions that stem from ignorance. That's where you draw the line.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extracted from "What Is Enlightenment?" Volume 1, Number 2 - a publication
of Moksha Foundation, 39 Edison Avenue, Corte Madera, CA 94925 - Tel: (415)
927-3210 Fax: (415) 927-2032
|
| 1710.9 | CA trip | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Thu Sep 03 1992 00:06 | 13 |
| I was in California last week and had the oportunity to see Andrew Cohen
for two evenings. His teaching has changed over the two years since I last
saw him. His basic message is the same but there is much more emphasis on
testing one's realization and depth understanding. There is more emphasis
placed on the result that enlightenment brings about. The initial awakening
is just the beginning. I picked up one of his recent books. The next note
is a quotation from the last few pages of that book.
I encourage anyone, who feels that enlightenment is what they want, to take
the oportunity to see Andrew. At least find out if enlightenment and
freedom is what you really want.
Wayne
|
| 1710.10 | Autobiography of an Awakening | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Thu Sep 03 1992 00:07 | 76 |
| The following is extracted from the end of Andrew Cohen's book
"Autobiography of an Awakening" (P 126-129)
...
I have looked and pondered often and at great length about how and why
over the last twenty or thirty years almost all of the modern masters,
gurus and prophets have to some degree or other failed. Many of them were
and are Enlightened to an extraordinary degree - to an unusual degree. But
in spite of that why have they failed? Why do I say they have failed?
Because the degree of cynicism in this day and age about the possibility of
perfection, the realization of perfection, the manifestation of perfection
and the expression of perfection is extraordinary to say the least. Most
people who claim to be interested in Truth and Enlightenment, deeply don't
really believe that it's possible to realize perfect goodness to the degree
that it can be manifested and expressed consistently and without error. Why
is that? It is only because those who claimed to have fully arrived simply
had not come all the way home - because in spite of their unusual and
extraordinary Enlightenment, the trail left by most has been less than
perfect, and usually marred with some degree of confusion, hypocrisy, and
in more cases than not, even deceit. The one who would claim Enlightenment
in this birth and who would also dare to show the way for others must be
able to BE a reflection of that purity to an extraordinary degree. There
must be the attainment of perfect consistency of goodness, selflessness and
the demonstration of that PURE INTENTION that wants only itself and NOTHING
ELSE. Without that attainment and the perfection of that attainment, the
consistency I'm speaking about will not be there. It is the inconsistency
in the expression of perfect goodness that has created the most
extraordinary depth of confusion, misunderstanding and outright foolishness
in the name of Enlightenment. How is it possible for a man like Bhagwan
Rajneesh to inspire hundreds of thousands of people to abandon the world in
the name of Truth and Freedom to a degree unmatched in modern times, and
yet at the same time leave behind him a legacy of confusion and
misunderstanding equally unparalleled in the shear numbers which he
influenced? How is it that someone like Chogyam Trungpa, who through the
power of his understanding and extraordinary mind was able to do so much
and influence so many in bringing the Buddha Dharma to the West, leave
behind him such an outrageous mess of gross self-indulgence, drunkenness
and even death? How is it that someone so perfect, so beautiful, so utterly
pure as the great J. Krishnamurti, who literally throughout his long life
influenced millions with his passionate plea to awaken from the dream of
selfishness and delusion, ultimately have so little effect? How could a
spiritual genius and profoundly Awakened man like Da Free John, who makes
such a mockery of his own genius through his painfully obvious
megalomaniacal rantings, leave so many lost and confused? And how is it
that his teacher, the Guru of gurus, the extraordinarily powerful Swami
Muktananda, who literally jolted so many thousands far beyond what they
imagined possible, leave behind him so much skepticism and doubt as to the
actual depth and degree of his attainment? How is all this possible? How
could so many be left in such confusion in the wake of these examples?
It's possible because almost no one dares to be sure what the Truth
actually is. If there is ever going to be any real change, which means a
true flowering of Real Awakening, then some individuals have got to have
the courage to look deeply enough to find out for themselves what the
Truth actually is. I always say that if an individual wants to be Free,
then there is no one in this world who will be able to stop them. The
necessity for absolute discrimination and unbridled passion in and for the
pursuit and discovery of the Truth alone is extraordinary. So few seem to
have the willingness to abandon absolutely every and all thought
formation and subtle concept in the pursuit of that Perfect
understanding. It is so easy to get stuck even in imperfect
Enlightenment. It may indeed be that one's very life, as one has known
it, may need to be questioned in its every aspect to such an
extraordinary degree that it may literally dissolve into emptiness before
one's very eyes - if one truly wants to go ALL THE WAY. How many are
willing? How may truly want to know? Who is willing to pay the price?
There is more involved than just surrender or even very good intentions.
The absolute responsibility necessary for the pursuit and attainment of
Perfect understanding is indeed terrifying even to conceive. In this kind
of absolute responsibility, one literally stands alone in the unknown and
dares to KNOW. But I am not speaking of only peeking at or glimpsing the
Perfection. I am speaking about going so far as having the courage to
literally claim responsibility for that Perfection. It is then and only
then that a human being will be able to bring all doubt, fear, confusion
and cynicism to an end in a way that will truly have significance.
|
| 1710.11 | Just a thought. | FORTY2::CADWALLADER | Reaping time has come... | Thu Sep 03 1992 07:24 | 9 |
| Perhaps with the realisation of the Truth comes a terrible realisation of
the futility of life, the way all things tend from better to worse, how all
life and all relations lead ultimately to pain and suffering? I often find
this view overwhelming, it is quite hard to shake once you start considering
it.
This could affect one, somewhat.
- JIM CAD*
|
| 1710.14 | Well...a slightly different view | TNPUBS::PAINTER | worlds beyond this | Thu Sep 03 1992 17:56 | 25 |
|
Re.11
Jim,
Not at all. I can't even say to you it's just the opposite, because
the reali(s)ation of Truth has no opposites.
It's kind of like being in a boat. One day the boat is sailing on
calm, smooth waters, and life looks wonderful. Then another day the
boat is tossed around violently by a storm. If you look at the calm as
just a prelude to the violent storm, then you will arrive at the
conclusion that you did - that ultimately it's all violent underneath,
and that the calm is just an illusion of the violent Truth.
But there's another perspective. That of the sun in this picture. It
goes on shining regardless of what the boat is doing. So does Truth.
It doesn't know calm seas or violent storms from its perspective. It
only knows light. It witnesses what is going on with the boat, but is
not necessarily caught up in it, knowing that eventually even the boat
will have the view that it currently has.
Or at least this is my current reali(s)ation of Truth. (;^)
Cindy
|
| 1710.15 | Seeing the good too...interesting...(;^) | TNPUBS::PAINTER | worlds beyond this | Thu Sep 03 1992 17:58 | 10 |
|
Re.10
Wayne,
Although that's only an excerpt from the book, it's unfortunate that
Andrew does not talk about those who have indeed reached the state of
enlightenment. Does he mention them in the book at all?
Cindy
|
| 1710.16 | purity is the point | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Thu Sep 03 1992 20:55 | 22 |
| Hi Cindy,
I believe Andrew considered those teachers mentioned to be enlightened.
He says "Many of them were and are Enlightened to an extraordinary degree -
to an unusual degree." Perhaps you are refering to full enlightenment? Full
enlightenment means that Enlightenment itself is expressing through the
individual with NO obscurations. What I take him to be saying is that it is
very rare for that case. But many people have tasted enlightenment and
people differ in their capacity to express enlightenment. The purity of
the expression of enlightenment is what is rare. And only the degree
(purity) that a teacher has reached can be transmitted to their students.
There is a lot of information on one of his tapes I am listening to
entitled "Corruption, Purity, and Enlightenment." Perhaps I can transcribe
some of it, if there is any interest.
In the book he mentions only the teachers he has encountered plus the
examples quoted in the previous note. I guess I don't know what you mean by
"unfortunate that Andrew does not talk about those ..." What kinds of
things would you expect him to say? Or what kind of information are you
looking for?
Wayne
|
| 1710.17 | on compassion | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Thu Sep 03 1992 22:32 | 80 |
| re .12
Hi Jim, I think Andrew might differ with this view:
> with the realization of the truth, one sees everyone as divine.
> one sees life in every living planet and rock. one hears the music
> of the spheres. and because of that one feels great compassion for
> those who cling to misery because they have been programmed by past
> lifes, society, their parents and at any given moment they know
> nothing else.
This sounds like romantic ideas about enlightenment to me. Perhaps it is
not like that at all? or maybe I'm missing your point?
Andrew, was asked about the Buddhist view of compassion expressing "...
'wisdom without compassion is emptiness, is hell.' What is your view about
compassion? Does that have meaning for you and if so, in what way?" Andrew
responded with the following dialog. Andrew speaks rapid and I'm guessing
at the punctuation and some sentence structure. Quoting from the tape
"Corruption, Purity, and Enlightenment":
"I hardly ever speak about compassion and I personally don't know what it
feels like. Now. The reason for that is that before this happened to me,
for some period I was exposed to some of the Buddhist teachings and
teachers and there was quite a lot of emphasis put on this word and a lot
of people were using it. Then when this happened to me [referring to his
own awakening] I found that there was an extraordinary amount of interest
in the welfare of other people, specifically having to do with their
awakening. What became clear to me was the volitional nature of ignorance.
When I really got to look into this and started teaching I began to work
with people very deeply I started to see how, without exception, every
individual that I knew was making a choice - to be exactly the way they
were. Now maybe they all had a good reason for it. 'You know, this happened
to me, that happened to me...' They all had a list of reasons why. But what
made it change was these people declared 'I want to be Free in this life.'
So if a person says 'I want to be Free in this life' then none of that has
any relevance, it can no longer be used as an excuse. And then what I began
to see was, after many of these people had tasted very deeply of the Self
and had been revealed to them, without a doubt, who they really were and
all the glory there is in that, they knew, when push came to shove and it
became for their own evolution and for the welfare of everyone else that
they knew in their whole life, that they would finally be willing to leave
aspects of this behind, many of them are unwilling to do it. There was a
volitional choice to choose the past with all its conditionality and all
the suffering that ensues, and they were willing to create a lot more
karma. So the way I began to see it and the way I see it now is - that
there is a choice that has to be made, and it's a choice that has to be
made absolutely. And anybody who is serious about awakening has to make it
and the people who are going to make it are going to have to wrestle with
all of their tendencies and with all of their conditioning. OK, that's one
aspect of it."
"The other aspect of it is - since I have been teaching, I've met a lot of
other people who are involved in the helping profession, and because of
their maybe spiritual interests, were very identified with this idea of
being compassionate. They heard the Dali Lama, a very beautiful human
being, speak about the necessity of being compassionate or heard someone
else. Some of these people I got to know very well and some of these people
say 'I want to be free', and when I start to dig a little deeper under this
compassion I found selfishness, ambition and all the rest of it. So
speaking a lot about compassion to people who aren't well grounded in the
impersonality of the way things are - its very dangerous, because it's a
very pleasing concept to the ego. One can feel very ennobled by it. I feel
a lot of people are abusing it in the service of their ego, but thinking
that it actually has to do with liberation."
"Now I really don't have a problem with the word. But what I found in my
own life I don't identify with other people's suffering. And yet I seem to
be very interested in extricating people from their suffering. So I think
it's a word, that in the minds of most people, practically, has to do with
a, kind of, very heart felt feeling about suffering that actually, if one
is going to go very deeply, needs to be gone beyond, gone beyond,...left
behind. If when one truly begins to awaken and truly begins to leave the
personal behind, there is a natural interest in the welfare in other
people, it has nothing to do with the personal."
<So it's a kind of impersonal compassion?>
"Yes, absolutely what I'm referring to. But I feel the word is a dangerous
word to use for most of us, because of what comes to mind to people."
|
| 1710.18 | | FORTY2::CADWALLADER | Reaping time has come... | Fri Sep 04 1992 08:53 | 117 |
| Hi All,
.12
Wal,
When I said "sometimes I feel so unenlightened" I used the term wrongly
perhaps, for I was thinking then of purely physical, informational knowledge
on various subjects. I feel that the music I listen to has a lot of relevance
to some interest areas of mine but I simply know too little about these to
understand in full.
However, "enlightenment"... how do we view the term here? Are we
talking "divine inspiration" or "human insight". I feel I was really considering
the latter, really. I wonder how it is that great philosophers have come to
the root idea of life as suffering and pain, *emptiness*. Surely they have
considered long and hard, by far way and above my own thinking. Would not such
intense consideration of the nature of life have some inherant relevance, i.e.
"maybe they have a point!" :-)
"Divine inspiration" however, this is perhaps what most people would
consider enlightenment "proper". I would believe to have a firm unshakeable
knowledge of one's divinity and connection to the lifestream of all things
would be excellent (are you listening Talligai? :-) ), a remarkably comforting
and solid base around which to live your life.
Personally, too many things lead me away from this view. I have of late
become generally misanthropic in viewpoint, the most part of people here in
Reading (in my experience) have tended to push me to this view, they are all
so unneccesarily nasty and "underhand". A view I have felt more strongly as
well recently is that no one really feels *compassion* for anyone else, that
it is usually a mask that is suitable to wear, for convenience. I am afraid
I may have upset my girlfriend with some of my frank views, after she was
distressed that old friends she had not seen for ages treated her with almost
blatant ignorance when she met them again a few days ago. She was very hurt.
These were friends? No, they were ordinary humans. My views of life as a
constant stream of pain and suffering, stem mainly from relationships that have
failed and "friends" who exhibit the above character... at a very base level
why bother to give compassion to a lover when this giving will ultimately
lead to deep pain? To lessen the compassion, lessens the eventual pain.
Taken to a logical conclusion, why bother to feel compassion for anyone? This
method is least hurtful and offers no hurtful side-effect to others...
Even in the Nature of things, all tends from better to worse, everything
decays and "falls apart". We are all dead from the beginning. Perhaps this
is straying too much from the point... in a nutshell enlightenment involves
divinity or knowledge thereof, whereas my suffering viewpoint comes from the
misanthropic standpoint of man as destroyer, cold murderer, compassionless
robot. All else is mere folly or falsehood. This is our true Nature. To rise
above this is perhaps enlightenment?
.14
Cindy,
I like the analogy of the boat! :-) The sun fails to burn eventually
however (sorry, being a wet blanket!).
Seriously though, I feel that I am not party to the "joyous" existence
some people in this conference appear to lead. I know of friends who always
appear the same, I can't identify with this. My Natural state, with no
external influence - is emptiness - there is no Natural joy, no pervading
happiness. Perhaps, personally this stems from my childhood (psychological
conditioning) since I have thrown off what was a perpetual cloud of depression
by addressing a larg fear/guilt part of my conscience a few months back. For
that I am very grateful! But what do I have to follow as a guide but "physical
experience". As above, this undeniably always tends to pain. Is the short
lived experience (intellectual, physical, spiritual, whatever) worth the
end result which is always persistent? I feel more pain deeply inside through
the loss of my first girlfriend (split up) than any other thing in my life.
Am I to suffer this pain for ever from just 2 years of experience? Is this
the Nature of life? I still yearn to be with her since I have reasoned through
many experiences we had in which I was extremely hurtful and nasty. NOW I
realise this was through jealousy, self-pity and a low self esteem. NOW is
too late. NOW is the time when just the pain remains, I cannot go back so I
realise the pitiful nature of Man and have just the pain for my troubles.
I am soon to return to where she is and find this very hard to face,
perhaps this is why I am being such a misery-guts. Previous "meetings" have
had me reeling from emotional shock. Not very nice.
.17
ADVLSI::SHUMAKER
I have mentioned some things on compassion above. The passages were very
interesting but covered a fair amount of ground and a fair few viewpoints,
from the volitional nature of clinging to pain, and "normal existence" through
to compassion without clear cause and underlying greed in the name of
"compassion" (which goes with my view 100%). However, you extracted a portion
of .12 which was entered by Wal, not myself so I will not say very much since
I was not sure whether you had mistakenly thought I entered .12 and had
intended your reply to be addressed to Wal.
A little ditty:
"She came to me, when times were low"
"And smiled at me, through eyes of stone"
"We danced and laughed, it's all so cold"
"Like wingless insects, born to crawl"
"We climbed so high, destined to fall"
"Into graves, a broken soul"
"Now nothing's left except my hate"
"Of which I leave to one and all"
- Death In June, "Carousel"
BTW - Sixx Comm (Mother Destruction) are starting mail-order again from
September 23rd (?) with a "Pagan Dance" project under the Kenaz label. If
I get time before I leave I will enter a note on Kenaz and some information
from some pamphlets I received, with their address, in case you are
ineterested. Also, if it is not unsuitable I would like to enter some
quotations and such from CURRENT93 to see if they have any relevance to any
one here... moderators pummel me sharply about the face if this isn't a good
idea! :-)
- JIM CAD*
|
| 1710.21 | | HOO78C::ANDERSON | Come back Terry Wogan | Fri Sep 04 1992 10:46 | 8 |
| >En-LIGHT-ened. Light from within. Light guiding actions. Actions
through awareness not reaction.
Making up the meaning of words again?
Enlighten vt, to cause to understand; free from false beliefs.
Jamie.
|
| 1710.22 | whoops | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Fri Sep 04 1992 12:22 | 12 |
| .18 Hi Jim, whoops, yes I meant Wal. My mistake.
I can see how easy it is to become cynical in the overwhelming view of
the futility of the human condition, but then that cynicism might also
be an expression based on the personal. Part of the process is giving
up all our ideas, including what enlightenment is.
Perhaps the real evolutionary hope is that, as Andrew has said, some
people have managed to crawl out of the swamp. That is real hope, and
that it can be done by anyone willing to do it.
Wayne
|
| 1710.23 | the buck stops here | ATSE::FLAHERTY | I am an x xa man! | Fri Sep 04 1992 13:12 | 28 |
| Hi wal,
Although I often agree with much you write, I think you're off base on
this one:
<< Christ Jesus said, "when someone slaps you, give him the other cheek."
<< The victim's pride is now bolstered. He has made the hitter inferior,
<< "See, I am better than you." (and by inference, 'MY Master is greater
<< than your God').
<< Compassion is when you hit back just as hard; not less; not greater.
<< you've accepted the other person as an equal; not inferior; not
<< superior; equal.
That may be how you would feel if you turned the other cheek, but I
believe for myself (and what I interpret Jesus' reason to be) was not
of superiority but an act of nonviolence. Jesus also said to love your
neighbor as yourself. In loving myself, I wouldn't slap myself so
neither would I slap the hitter back. Reacting to abuse with further
abuse keeps perpetuating the abuse. If I see my neighbor as attacking
me, then I do not see the 'Christ' in him. I then am under the
illusion of separateness, which is an ego ploy, for IMHO, in Reality we
are all One.
Ro
-wallijon
|
| 1710.24 | thoughts | TNPUBS::PAINTER | worlds beyond this | Fri Sep 04 1992 13:16 | 25 |
|
Re.10
Wayne,
Going back to the excerpt, he mentions "_almost_ all the modern
masters...have failed...". Then he talks about the ones who have
indeed failed and why.
I'm not expecting him to say anything really, so I was remarking more
on what he left out, rather than what he said.
He says _almost_ all... So who are the ones who haven't failed? Why
haven't they failed? What is the quality that makes them successful?
It goes back to a quote from Scott Peck in which a person asked him,
"Dr. Peck, why is there so much evil in the world today?" And Peck
things to himself, "Why doesn't anybody ever ask why there is so much
good in the world?"
I don't know - perhaps he is targeting a certain audience that I'm not
really a part of. Just commenting on the perspective he appears to be
taking, that's all.
Cindy
|
| 1710.25 | fight fire with fire? or fire with water? | TNPUBS::PAINTER | worlds beyond this | Fri Sep 04 1992 13:18 | 13 |
|
Re.23
wal,
What Ro said.
Also, Gandhi's achievements prove you wrong. He led the most successful
nonviolent peaceful revolution that this world has ever seen. He did
not strike back with force equally.
Cindy
|
| 1710.27 | or see your note 1721.25 ;') | ATSE::FLAHERTY | I am an x xa man! | Fri Sep 04 1992 15:02 | 27 |
| Wal (.26),
<< .23 - Ro: 'love your neighbor as yourself': let's be real. it's okay
<< to believe it mentally, but exsistenially its a wash.
<< how many people actually love themselves? have you listened
<< to the dialogue of your mind lately? we recriminate our-
<< selves so much. we are constantly comparing our selves to
<< others. why are 'we' so unhappy with ourselves?
Yup, Wal, we've all been 'programmed' not to love ourselves and it isn't
easy to get rid of those old tapes. But the people in my reality our
working on it and in my own life I've seen much progress. Lots of
wounds to heal for everyone, but we're getting there. As we learn to
be conscious of that dialog we have with ourselves, we can change it
into a more loving one.
<< why did christ curse the tree when he was hungry? was that
<< not violence to the tree? he fed the thousands yet he could
<< not feed himself?
Sorry, I'm not familiar with this passage.
Gee, Wal, you havin' a bad day! ;')
Ro
|
| 1710.29 | | SALSA::MOELLER | the Prompt are also the Lonely | Fri Sep 04 1992 18:45 | 23 |
| I agree with Cindy. It's revealing which masters Andrew Cohen chose to
discuss, implicitly or explicitly labelling them all as failures. Why?
Because there weren't mass enlightenments as a result ? Hey - name
ONE. It may be that a) it's the human condition and/or b) he's
not-so-subtly using this to inflate his own position.
Let's assume for a moment that Cohen was right.. that Krishnamurti,
Rajneesh, etc., were failures. Or that their work was ephemeral, which
in his view is the same thing. Consider kindergarten. What does it
accomplish ? It gets children into a classroom environment with a
teacher, who doesn't expect the children to act as adults, but help
them get ready for further schooling, for their eventual role as
adults. This concept exists in sprituality; certain teachers offer
themselves publicly, seek publicity and a large number of followers.
What does this do ? It gives the followers something 'spiritual' to
do, it gives the teacher plenty of Maya material to work with, and
it attracts the attractable, thereby leaving the real teachers and
their few real disciples free to do real work, which doesn't include
enrolling kids in spiritual kindergarten.
Just another slant on things..
karl
|
| 1710.30 | | VERGA::STANLEY | what a long strange trip it's been | Tue Sep 08 1992 12:35 | 31 |
|
It seems to me that Andrew Cohen has unreal expectations regarding
perfection. Existence is perfect just as it is... with all it's
imperfections.. with all it's pain and joy.. suffering and happiness..
we choose what we wish to experience. We hold onto the pain because we
choose to, or we release it and focus on the happiness because we
choose to.
We do it to ourselves.. we experience what we want to experience. We
give our ticket to the man and take our ride and then we go on to the
next ride in this amusement park we call life.
It also occurs to me that once one proclaims oneself a "Master".. one
takes oneself off The Path.. perhaps that is a part of the problem.
A "Master" has arrived... and yet a true master knows that the journey
is all there is... there is no destination.
There are many ways of teaching.. human mothers teach their children
without proclaiming themselves to be the child's master (with all the
baggage that word carries with it)... animals (human and otherwise) learn
from experience.. life Itself is a Master... a teacher..
Which of us is any more or any less than what we are? We are what we
are.
One doesn't carry humanity to a higher level by rising above them and
then preaching down to them but by remaining among them and taking them
with you.... where ever that may be... seems to me, anyway... but...
what do I know? Not much really... I'm no Master... just another
shadow you pass along The Path.
|
| 1710.33 | .. .. | FORTY2::CADWALLADER | Reaping time has come... | Wed Sep 09 1992 07:35 | 5 |
| RE: -2
In "The Invisible Hand" the fig tree is described as symbolism for Israel.
- JIM CAD*
|
| 1710.35 | | VERGA::STANLEY | what a long strange trip it's been | Wed Sep 09 1992 11:11 | 3 |
| .32
That works I guess.... we humans do sort of balance each other out...
|
| 1710.36 | Zen Ox Hearding book | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | | Mon Sep 28 1992 17:16 | 43 |
| Re .24 Cindy.
The Jist of his "Autobiagraphy of an Awakening" is the confusion many
modern day teachers (last 20 years) have left in their following, so he
doesn't discuss any teachers in a positive light. However, I did find this:
I recently saw Andrew while he was in New York and I picked up a tape,
entitled "Absolute Commitement Destroys the Ego" from a talk in Seattle,
WA. On the tape he mentions, in a positve light, a Zen Master. Here is a
transcription of that part of the talk:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew: Interestingly, if you remember what I was talking about last night
- One of my students today was going through this book that she found at
the house she was staying at. It's the Zen Ox Hearding book. And there's a
quote here from a Zen master, whose actually speaking exactly about the
same matter I was speaking about last night. We had lunch together and she
showed it to me, I said "bring it today and I'll read it."
"If a person treasures each being then he remains caught in the being for
just that reason and let's himself be tricked by words and speech. Even
if, for example, he saw into his original nature and reached the region
beyond all laws and rules but remained to the slightest degree attached
to such an awakening, then he would fall into the trap that has just been
mentioned. Even when one becomes aware that in the final truth everything
is incomprehensible, this incomprehensiblity itself must not remain. On
the contrary, each word that the person who is not awakened says will
leave behind the traces of the intelligent tortus, and thus become the
opponent of the trackless freedom and the truth that he strives for. We
must jump first into the last region of this nature so as to return
transformed into the world of beings. Even if we believe in the genuine
Zen truth that was transmitted from Sakyammuni to Kasyapya (sp?) and
always thought about this transmission, it would continue to be utterly
empty and useless as long as we did not try to experience it ourselves.
In total detachment from Buddhas and devils we must acquire the ability
to say a great "yes" to the world of the absolute *and* the world of the
relative, as well as to the Buddhas and also the devils."
So, .. I was speaking actually about this last night, it's from your book.
I bet you never recognized what it meant before, did you? .. It makes me
feel good when I see this, then I know I'm not alone. ....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| 1710.37 | | TNPUBS::PAINTER | worlds beyond this | Mon Sep 28 1992 19:10 | 6 |
|
Re.36
Thanks Wayne. Glad to see that.
Cindy
|
| 1710.39 | just of the A1(M) | WARNUT::TUMSHI::NISBETD | I'll have a job please Bob | Fri Oct 02 1992 13:53 | 1 |
|
|
| 1710.40 | Andrew in Boston, April 8-11 | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | Wayne Shumaker | Fri Apr 02 1993 10:08 | 11 |
| What is Enlightenment
Andrew Cohen will be in the Boston area at the Iyengar Yoga Center 240A Elm
St, Davis Sq., Somerville on April 8-11, Door opens at 7:30 and begins
around 8:00. April 15th he will be in Amherst. There is no charge for any
of these events.
For details call 617-446-9770. For information from his organization, the
Moksha Foundation call 415-927-3210.
Wayne
|
| 1710.41 | | HAMER::MONTALVO | everything just happens | Fri Apr 02 1993 12:20 | 155 |
|
"Enlightenment is a Secret" by Andrew Cohen
Moshka Foundation, isbn 0-9622678-3-x
If you truly want to be Free you have to give up, you have to just
give up. You have to give up completely. p.6
Enlightenment doesn't exist in time.
Enlightenment is a vision that cannot be held or grasped in any way.
It's a fire that a person is either going to jump into or run away
from. p.7
You have to open your mind, open your heart, and renounce the past
completely. p.13
The real does not wait for you, the real does not wait for the
unreal. Don't wait. Be ready for that which cannot be imagined.
Be ready to give your heart forever. p.16
Do not allow yourself to stop until you are sure that there is
nothing more to realize and nothing more to know.
If you want it all to change you simply have to realize 'you'
are the solution. p.18
Grace cannot function uninhibitedly unless in your heart of
hearts, Realization is all you want. If you are serious it's
got to be choiceless. p.19
Most people accumulate too many ideas about what is going to
happen and how it is going to happen. In this way, they are
following only their mind, lost in imagination.
Real longing for Liberation is something that burns.
In that burning there is no mind, there is no age, there is
no face and there is no history -- there is only that longing.
p.20
It's not possible to want to be Free too much. Because if you
want to be Free it will take everything that you have to give.
p.21
Do I really want to be Free, here and now? Once the intention
is clear, the mind becomes focused. When there is one-pointed-
ness, the Heart will guide you. When the Heart is revealed
trust is found and intuition flowers. Then one starts to
understand what it means to live in the unknown. Then you can
know what it means to be blind, and see everywhere. p.24
The choices are the known and the unknown. There are no other
choices. The known means time and space, thought and memory.
p.27
Waking up is not a game. That's why you have to be deadly
serious about this. There is tremendous sacrifice involved
and if you're not ready to struggle and face your worst
fears then you have no business seeking Enlightenment
in the first place. p.28
When you are deadly serious you do not have any time to waste. p.30
When you are deadly serious about being deadly serious, you will
soon find that the ego never sought Enlightenment. You will
discover that the ego never wanted to be Enlightened. Realize
that. Realize that the ego never wanted anything to do with it.
When you realize that it is not the ego that seeks
Enlightenment you will stumble upon the Heart and find what
you have been looking for all along.
Ignorant people always have a choice. Deadly serious
people never do. p.32
To be serious about Awakening means you have finally come to the
end of the line. Only then can karma finally come to an end. p.33
Ego is the illusion of separateness that doesn't want to give
up its illusion of separateness. p.37
it is imperative that you unconditionally abandon every idea
that you have about Enlightenment. As long as you think that
Enlightenment is something that can be understood by the mind,
the cycle of blindly perpetuating your own ignorance will
never cease. p.46
The individual who is deluded tries to know that which is
unimaginable with his mind. In his delusion he sees God as
an object. God is not an object to be seen.
Most people carry around pictures of reality in their
minds. It is only when all pictures of reality have truly been
abandoned that something unimaginable can happen. p.48
If the Dharma has been Realized, it actually becomes what you are.
You have to have the courage and conviction to give up absolutely
every idea that you have about what the Truth is and be willing
to make the effort to find out what the Truth is for yourself. p.49
You are either a seeker or a finder. p.53
If you believe that some process in time will gradually release
you from the illusion of samsara, then you are in a very secure
position. But if you realize that the idea of time 'is' the
illusion of samsara then the whole business is finished up very
quickly. p.59
It is necessary to destroy the obstacles to meditation if you
are to be Enlightened. If meditation is to be effortless then
you cannot have a mind burdened by guilt, doubt, suspicion,
superstition, resentment or fear. Destroy all the obstacles to
meditation and Enlightenment will be yours. p.60
If the pure intention is there and you want to understand,
then don't want time to understand. p.61
The true path is whatever gets you there. The true path is
whatever actually sets you Free. p.62
Are you going to jump or not? That is the only revelant
question. p.63
Enlightenment and time do not mix. p.64
The future always implies time and waking up means the
realization of the end of time. p.66
Progress itself is part of the illusion... p.68
Nothing you think makes any difference. p.77
By continuously insisting that Enlightenment takes time,
you are the expression of samsara itself. p.79
There is no end to the past. The more you look into the past
the more you will find. It is endless. The past is like a
garbage can that has no bottom.
Stop insisting that you have a past that is tormenting
you. People identify with old feelings of being hurt because
it makes them feel special. The specialness and the morbid
comfort that comes from the past is profound ignorance. Want
none of it. Identify with none of it. p.83
In the end there's absolutely nothing to do, nothing to
change and no one to become. When you are no longer interested
in the past and you are no longer interested in the future,
when you know you're completely helpless, these ideas of
effortlessness versus effort won't have any meaning. p.86
As long as there is effort to be made then the ego can still
have power. But when there is no effort to be made then the
ego has no power any longer. That's the whole point. p.87
.
.
.
|
| 1710.42 | Video: Clarity of Intention | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | Wayne Shumaker | Sat May 29 1993 15:39 | 20 |
| Teachings of Andrew Cohen - Video, June 6th
I will hosting a video of Andrew Cohen Sunday, June 6th, 7:30PM. Julie
Burns, one of Andrew's close students will also be present. The video
showing will most likely be at my house in Westboro. Send me mail if you
or anyone you know is interested (or call 508-898-9439). There will also
be some other videos in the Boston area if anyone is iterested.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarity of Intention: The foundation of Spiritual Life
The clarity of one's intention to be free is the foundation of Andrew
Cohen's Teachings. A clear and firm intention gives one all the strength
that is needed to bridge the gap between the reality of one's own
situation and the potential of a deeply awakened condition. Only when
this intention is unconditional will one be able to remain firmly rooted
in that knowing which is beyond the mind.
There is no cost for attending any of Andrew Cohen's teachings.
|
| 1710.43 | Nov 12-14 Andrew Cohen | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | Wayne Shumaker | Tue Oct 12 1993 11:34 | 10 |
| Andrew Cohen - What is Enlightenment
Andrew Cohen will be in the Boston area at the Iyengar Yoga Center 240A Elm
St, Davis Sq., Somerville on November 12-14, Door opens at 7:30 and begins
around 8:00. November 16-17 he will be in Hadfield. There is no charge for
any of these events.
For more information, call Moksha Foundation: 617-446-9770.
Wayne
|
| 1710.44 | Andrew in Northampton Apr 20-21 | ADVLSI::SHUMAKER | Wayne Shumaker | Thu Apr 14 1994 14:55 | 9 |
| Andrew Cohen will be in Northampton April 20 and 21:
8:00PM (door opens at 7:30)
Unitarian Society
220 Main St.
Northampton
(413) 256-0241 for more info.
No cost, but donations are appreciated.
|