Conference hydra::dejavu

    Shelob is the spider in I believe the Trilogy.  The figure of
    Shelob in the Pyramid Book catalog is really not Shelob.  I 
    checked with a distributor at one of the gift shows on that one.  
    He couldn't give me the figures name at the time.  Now I'm 
    even more curious to know who she is.
    
    Joanne  

    
    Joanne,
    
    That's interesting, I wonder why they have it as Shelob in the catalog.
    If you find out, please let me know.
    
    Ann
    

    Ann,
    
    I'll see the distributor again in September.  Will ask again and 
    press for an answer.  I do like the figure myself and would like
    to know more about it.
    
    Ann, do tell us more about your sightings.  I'm also interested
    in them.
    
    Joanne

    
    Like I said I only saw her three times.  I was sitting at my table
    outside enjoying a blazing fire in the pit.  I felt that someone was
    in the yard other than myself and a friend.  So I turned to see who it
    was and it was the black hooded figure, just casually walking through
    the yard, and to myself I said oh wow.  I wasn't frightend by her.
    At first I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me but when I saw
    her the second time I knew it wasn't my eyes.  I felt the same every
    time I saw her.   But you said this distributor said it isn't Shelob.
    I think I'll call the catalogs 800, 24 hour number and see what they
    can tell me.
    
    A
    

    Ann,
    
    I did that already too.  The person I spoke to didn't have
    a clue.  I also spoke to someone at the store who also didn't
    have a clue.  
    
    The only reason I know this figure wasn't Shelob was be-
    cause I picked the figure up and spoke to the distributor
    and he told me which figure was Shelob but couldn't tell
    me this figures name (not a very important character, just
    interesting in design).  I verified this with a Trilogy
    expert here who is long gone.  He sort of guessed at who
    the figure might be, but I can't remember the name.    
    
    Anyone out there familiar with the Trilogy and the various 
    characters?  This character is shown as a black hooded 
    figure (face is covered) and holds a crystal ball and I
    believe has one at it's feet.  
    
    Also, Trilogy fans, who exactly is Shelob?  I know the 
    figure is a spider, but what does Shelob represent?  
    
    Is there another file that deals with the Trilogy?  I'm
    getting really curious.
    
    Joanne

    
    Joanne,
    
    I called and what they told me was it was a figure someone came up
    with and took the name from Dungions and Dragons.  They liked the 
    name so that's what they named it.
    
    Who else is a black hooded figure?  Other than the grim reaper?
    This has really got me baffeled now.
    
    Now, another thing is, I like spiders, they are very fasinating.
    I have a poster of a spider in my living room which covers almost
    the whole wall.  I have other spiders in my apt., I also have one
    hanging from my rear view mirror.  Maybe it's a connection with the
    spiders and not Shelob.  I don't know.
    
    A
    

    Re .5:
    
    See WOOK::TOLKIEN for a conference on Tolkien and his works.
    
    The most notable black-robed figures in Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings"
    are the nine Ringwraiths, the chief servants of the villain, Sauron.
    
    
    Shelob, so far as I can tell from the book or from Tolkien's own
    declarations, doesn't symbolize anything, at least no more than any
    other horrific monster.  She happens to be a giant spider and to fit
    into a short genealogy of spider-monsters in Tolkien's stories.  She is
    the mother of the spiders of Mirkwood (appearing in "The Hobbit," the
    companion work to "Lord of the Rings) and "the last child of Ungoliant
    to trouble the unhappy world" (Ungoliant being a demon who took spider 
    shape, appearing in "The Silmarillion," another Tolkien work).
    
    Sounds to me, though, like this art figure was simply designed to be
    sorcerously sinister, with no particular connection to Tolkien, and
    named at whim.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    There is a hooded figure holding a lantern in Tarot, isn't there?

    
    Possibly Sauron with the palantir (sp? cyrstal globes used to see
    far off events?)

    No, no. *Saruman* with the palantir.  He often went hooded and cloaked.
    (Gandalf wore a hat, not a hood.)
    
    						Ann B.

	.10 Ann
	
	But Saruman was not black-hooded. (Was he?) He was Saruman the
	White (or Saruman the many-colored) until Gandalf (the Grey) 
	banished him.
	
	Jay

    Earl,
    
    This figure is one of many figures offered.  The line is many
    characters from the Trilogy.  This one particular figure is
    a specific character with a name as are each of the others.
    Basically everything in this line is a dull black and often 
    the pieces have Austrian crystal as part of the statue.  I
    don't know if the figure is really suppost to be black.
    
    The figure really looks better in the catalog.  It's very
    interesting to look at, but lacks something when you really
    see it.  Pyramid did the naming, they just named it wrong.
    One would think the real name would be on the order blank.
    Maybe one should speak to the owner/buyer but try to get
    to that person.  I'll find out in September when I see this
    line again (if they're still at the show and I'm still at 
    DEC).
    
    Joanne who's been trying to figure this out for over a 
    year and is glad someone else is interested
    

    Re: .8
    
    This is the usual representation for the Hermit in the Tarot.
    
    Beth

    Hmmm.  It's possible this character may not be a specific
    individual, but rather an archetypal manifestation.  If so,
    it may be helpful to conisder what dark hooded figures 
    tend to symbolize.  They are definately prominent throughout 
    many cultures and in many stories and legends.  Commonly they 
    signify one who has access to hidden, esoteric knowledge which
    can be used for either "good" or "ill" purposes.
    
    (Remember the garb of Obie-One-Canobie in Stars Wars...?)
    
    Karen

    
    (It's been a while; please forgive spellings...)
    
    While Saruman had a palanir at Orthanc, it was Sauron who made the
    palantir for the Numimoreans. Sauron also controlled the palantir;
    all Sam (?) could see in the Orthanc palantir was the eye of Sauron
    (didn't Gandalf wrestle control of that palantir away from Sauron?).
    
    The only crystaline things associted with Sauron (who wore a black
    cloak to hide his disfigured face [now there's an archetype for you])
    are the palantir.
    
    Ed E.

    
    Dark hooded figures? Odin (also with a disfigured face, having
    only one eye)
    
    Moses' face was covered (or otherwise obscured) when he came down from
    Mt. Sinai (not by a darkness, though)
    
    (And, of course, Death, in _The Meaning of Life_)

    
    If noone is living at the old residence, for my landlord was going
    to sell the house, I think I'm going to go back, as many nights as it
    takes and see if it appears and try to communicate this time.
    
    A
    

    
    
    Well, on Saturday I took a ride by the old house and someone is indeed
    living their.  I don't think it's a good idea to go back.  
    
    A
    

    
    
    re. .06
    
               "who else wears a black hood?" In some tarot decks The
    Hermit is pictured that way.
    
                                Later,
                                 Mark
    
    

    Got to speak to a Distibutor this weekend.  The figure is actually
    named SAURON.  Does anyone know about this character?
    
    Sauron is now a piece in a chess set.  It's the King and the figure
    has taken on a different look, done in pewter and painted black and
    has diamond cuts in it and has lost one of the crystal balls.  It's
    not as interesting as the original.
    
    Joanne

    Re .20: "Does anyone know about this character?"
    
    Sauron is the chief villain and title character of "The Lord of the Rings" 
    and is a blend of demon, wizard, and dictator.  He hardly appears "on
    stage" at all; the viewpoint characters encounter only his goons and 
    flunkeys.  He does own a magical crystal ball, like the figure you
    describe, but his most famous possession is the Ring of Power, which is
    the center of attention for the whole novel.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    It hardly seems necessary, but ...

    I really do recommend that you read the Trilogy.  It may not make you a
    better person, but it is fun, and it is at the very least an important
    footnote on our cultural heritage at this point.  Keep in mind, while
    you read it, that many of the elements that you may find "trite" have
    become so only because it is such a widely imitated work.

    If you enjoy children's literature (but only if you do) you might want
    to start with the "prequal", The Hobbit.  It is a great story, and does
    set some of the background, but it is written to children which turns
    some adults off.  You don't really need it to appreciate the Lord of
    the Rings.  Even if you don't like children's literature in general, if
    you get "hooked" by the Lord of the Rings, you might want to read The
    Hobbit afterwards.

				    Topher

    And if you get hooked by LOTR and/or read the Hobbit, (BTW I heartily
    endorse these books and reccommend getting hook on any of Tolkien's
    stuff) then you might want to read the Silmarillion, (His creation
    epic) or any of the other books he wrote. Many of these are being
    released as Lost Tales and Unfinished Tales. They're being edited by
    his son. I also reccommend Smith of Wooten-Major and Farmer Giles of
    Ham, (All one title) and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. (Both
    Non-Middle Earth books and The Adventures of Tom Bombadil. (Which does
    take place on Middle-Earth. Bombadil is kind of an ancient Earth Spirit
    who has retired to the Old Forest near the land of the Hobbitts. Here
    he has adventures and takes care of that part of the world. It's all he
    can manage. He's a Trickster at times and at times he's a friend and a
    rescuer. Don't be fooled by his manner. In his domain he is all
    powerful. He just chooses not to exercise that power most of the time.
    He's my favorite character in Middlearth, next to the Bright Lady
    Galadriel and the Ents.
    
    PJ

    HHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLDDDDDDDDDDDDDD on PJ.  Got so many things
    lined up to read now.  Topher, I intro to LOTR was the opera against my
    will and every minute was sheer agony so I never picked the books up to
    read.  Just couldn't do it; however, since you recommend them, I'll 
    try to squeeze them in.  Will start with the Hobbits, I love children's
    books.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Joanne

    Well, Joanne. If you really don't want to get the full flavor. :-) Just
    teasing friend.
    
    Tolkien was very prolific. He didn't finish a lot of stuff, but he sure
    got started. I really don't think you should dive into his works like
    that. Hobbitt and LOTR (if your of a mind) should suffice and then if
    you're interested go on. I was just using this string to spout of on my
    favorite characters in the books and on Tolkien in general. I haven't
    read the stuff in years as It's to familiar to me and I find myself
    skipping to favorite parts and losing the full flavor of the writings.
    It's kind of spoiled for me for now. Maybe in another decade or so.
    
    I got a lot to read too.
    
    PJ

    Re .20

    >Sauron is now a piece in a chess set.  It's the King and the figure
    >has taken on a different look, done in pewter and painted black and
    >has diamond cuts in it and has lost one of the crystal balls.

    Now that is interesting. Hitler was also a Dictator who was reputed to
    suffer from cryptorchidism. I wonder if there in any connection.

    Jamie.

	LOTR is also available on cassette tapes. There's two
	productions; one from Mind's Eye, and one from NPR Playhouse from
	the BBC. The BBC one recently became available. I'd taped it off
	public radio in the US a number of years ago. It's 26 half hour
	episodes, and while it's extremely well done, reading the book is
	recommended first. I've read the books 3 times and listened to
	the tapes about a dozen times. A great story!
	
	Jay

    Re .23:
    
    Just as a small point of information, "Gawain and the Green Knight" is
    not an original work of Tolkien's; instead, it is Tolkien's translation
    of an anonymous work in (I think) Middle English, written in
    alliterative verse.  Tolkien's translation preserves the meter, the
    alliteration, and the occasional rhyming.  It's a brilliant job of
    translation.  The story itself is one of the tales of the knights of
    King Arthur's Round Table.
    
    Re .26:
    
    "The Lord of the Rings" was written, at least partly, during World War II,
    so it is certainly possible that Hitler in particular or dictators in
    general supplied Tolkien with his imagery for his villains.  However,
    many people have gone on to suppose the the One Ring of Power is an
    image of the A-bomb.  This is not possible unless you want to suppose
    Tolkien was prescient, since he invented the Ring before the A-bomb
    became common knowledge, much less a commonly recognized problem.
    
    (I believe Tolkien sent installments of the story to his son while the
    latter was stationed with the RAF in Africa.)
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    Earl, I knew that about Sir Gawain. Just forgot or didn't think it
    relevant to the conversation. Actually it is relevant as some might
    enjoy the Middle English version. I was in high school during my 1st
    reading of it and only wanted words I could understand. :-) Love the
    story though. Thanks for pointing out that it is a translation.
    
    Now as to WWII, again I read this stuff in high school. My 1st copies
    were the Ballantine edition. In the LOTR intro, Tolkien has stated that
    it's not about WWII. He goes on to make some comparisons and shows that
    they are not. I think the Hitler/Sauron - Ring/A-bomb thing is one.
    Hobbitts as Jews is another that he blows out of the water. 
    
    My Oppinion is that he was very influenced from events around him and
    either subconciously or not, created and molded the story to parallel
    but not match the events of WWII history, both before and a bit after
    this time also. Of course the metaphysical part of it is that this is
    all real in a parallel universe and this is their version of WWII. The
    Silmarillion does bear some resemblance to Biblical and other creation
    stories. Not completely but some. 
    
    Then again, it had many influences. The Riders of Rohan as the old West
    cavalry for one. I'm sure there are others, but am out of time and
    maybe we need a new note. One to discuss fiction in general or Tolkien
    in particular and whether it's reality or not. 
    
    PJ

    
    re: .26
    
    Yes, it is disappointing when a figurine loses the balls it originally
    had...
    
    ;-) 
    
    
    guy

    .30
    
    Guy,
    
    I'm not going to comment on that one.  :^)
    
    Joanne

    Jamie giggles and exits stage left whistling the theme tune from the
    film, "Bridge on the River Kwai."

    Hi Joanne,
    
    As well as the audio cassettes that Jay mentioned (and which I have a
    copy), there are animated video versions of both.  I can lend you either or
    all, but I also recommend reading the books first.  Afterall Joanne,
    you have visited Middle Earth and know some hobbits personally...
    
    Ro Reinke ;')
    
    
    

    Just got a new Pyramid Catalog last night and the statue
    was again offered.  They dropped the Shelob name and re-
    placed it with Queen of Middle Earth.  Won't they get it
    straight.  Now I wonder about the other things they offer
    there, do they have any idea about them?
    
    Joanne

    Re .34

    Goodness me Joanne, you are not suggesting that the publishers of the
    catalog are charlatans just out to make a quick buck from the gullible.

    Jamie, currently shocked to the core at the very idea.

    Jamie,
    
    No, I just like people to get things straight.  If they mess up
    on this one, what do they do to other things they sell?
    
    Joanne who likes to know what the item is "really"

    
>    Joanne who likes to know what the item is "really"
    
     Ohhhhhhhhhhh... that's a murky swamp to get into, Joanne... ;-)