Conference hydra::dejavu

I could be wrong, but it sounds like another name for the Ancient Free
and Accepted Masons (also known as Masons or Freemasons), a fraternal
organization dedicated to personal integrity and charitable works.

Re .0 (Gale):

    >     Has anyone heard of an group called The Brotherhood Of The
    >Third Degree? 

Or it could refer to a bunch of pre-Miranda-rights ex-cons.

;-D

Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    Re.0
    
    There is a notes file located on EMIRFI::MASONIC.  You could
    check there to see if they know about it.
    
    Cindy

    
         Very cute Mr. K also as much as anyone seems to know or is
    willing to say.  Thanks anyway.
    
                                                          Gale
    

    In what context and from source did you hear of this brotherhood,
    Gale, if you don't mind my asking ?
    
    							todd

    
    
         I was asked about them by a coworker.  He has some friends
    involved with them.  Why he hasen't asked his friends I don't know.
    I'll ask him and let you know.
    
                                                  Thank you
                                                    Gale
    

> as much as anyone seems to know or is
> willing to say.

Did you try asking in MASONIC, as Cindy suggested? You couldn't find a
more decent bunch of folks.

    re: .7 (Mike)
    
       "...You couldn't find a more decent bunch of folks."
       That's precisely why she's here...with the *in*decent
    (in descent?) forks.  ;-)
    
    Frederick
    

    I'm not a Mason (but would I say if I was?) but here's what I know.

    Officially there are three degrees of Masons (It is widely believed
    that there are 30 additional secret degrees -- supposed to be secret
    even to most of the Masons of the first three degrees, but the truth
    of this is irrelevant here).  The highest publically acknowledged
    level in Freemasonry is therefore the third degree or "Master".

    Freemasons refer to each other as "brothers" and, frequently, to the
    organization as a whole as the Brotherhood.  I have never heard the
    phrase "The Brotherhood of the Third Degree" but it certainly may
    be current in one or more of the various national Mason's
    organizations.  Another possiblity is that someone heard reference to
    "brothers of the third degree" and "The Brotherhood" and put two and
    two together to get five, i.e., The Brotherhood of the Third Degree".

    I've had no contact with the Masons conference, but do check there.
    You have my permission to cross-post this note here if anyone wishes,
    on condition that any responses get forwarded to me.

				    Topher

    
    
         Thank you all very much.  It turns out they (The Brotherhood
    of The Third Degree) are Masons and not occult.  My friend's father
    is a Mason but dosen't talk about it.  I guess they take a death
    oath not to reveal certain things.  
    
                                              Thanks Again
                                              Gale
    

    
    Re .9 (Topher)
    
    I amy be wrong, (that's what I get for trying to correct you), but the
    Masons do not as a rule deny or fail to "confess" they are Masons. At
    least, these days they don't. My grandfather was a Mason, and the way
    they describe their organization is not as a "secret" organization, but
    an organization with secrets. I don't think there would be any problem
    with  you proclaiming your Masonic affiliation, if you indeed had any.
    
    Not to rathole this topic, but what really bugs ma about Masons is
    their unwillingness to accept women as Masons even today. I know there
    is a sister organization Eastern Star, but I would have liked to be a
    Mason, not an Eastern Star. As a matter of note, are Masonic lodges tax
    exempt? If so, can they legally be if they deny entry to women?
    
    
    Marilyn

    The Masonic orders originated as esoteric schools, but they are mostly
    social clubs today. If you aren't aware of what comes next and the
    participants are deadly serious, they're initiatory practices are quite
    powerful. For example, there are sham executions in some of the rites.
    In late medieval times it would have been easy to make it seem
    plausible. It is possible that conditions may occasionally be created
    that invoke something more than a good time. There definitely are 33
    degrees in Scottish Rite(if I remember correctly) Masonry. The York
    Rite has only 6 degrees. I've been told that to become a Shriner one
    must be a 33rd degree Mason. There are parallels between the various
    degrees and what is known as Pathwork.
    
    john

RE: .11 (Marilyn)

    Oh, I'm frequently wrong.  My information may be out-of-date or
    applicable to only one of the many organizations.  Most of what I know
    is half remembered stuff from a book about British Freemasonry.

    My impression is that the "theory" is that membership in a Masonic
    Lodge is supposed to be a secret.  The practice is that they put
    decals in their car windows.

					Topher

Rather than speculate about the nature and/or motives of the Masons, it
would probably be kinder to take questions and discussions over to that
conference. However, I'd just like to comment on one valid reason for
some of the "secrecy" of the organization:

If you were a band of folks with high standards for personal integrity,
and performed charitable work without recognition or thanks but because
it needed to be done, you wouldn't want to be distracted by people who
were merely curiosity seekers, or interested in enlightenment, or other
such personal entertainments. You would go about your business quietly
and with determination, asking nothing in return. Of course you would
welcome the partnership of other like-minded folks, but you'd risk
being hampered by the sort of people who are attracted by favorable
publicity (sort of the way high-visibility projects in Digital always
attract ambitious, but not necessarily talented people). So you
wouldn't advertise anything about your activity. Instead, you'd hope
that if a person were of high moral character and gave freely of
themselves (say, the sort of folks who volunteer at soup kitchens,
etc), that such a person would eventually find out about your own
activities, and become interested in joining (so as to take advantage
of economies of scale, etc).

So this is part of the reason for the secrecy. It's not so much secrecy
as a determination to avoid publicity. Good, caring people who are out
on the streets doing good things will eventually find out about the
Masons (how can you miss the Shriners hospitals and children's burn
centers and other such things?). Perhaps they'll want to join forces
with them, perhaps not. But people like myself, who are interested in
what we imagine to be "esoteric" things like "enlightenment" would
generally not run across the Masons in our search. We might hear about
them through a notesfile, but then we would learn that the Masons
aren't interested in enlightenment or esoteric or occult matters. At
least not in the form we imagine.

    
    Mike,
    
    I appreciate your comments regarding the Masons, and indeed recommend
    that anyone having more than a passing interest in the organization log
    into the Masonic conference, I have done so in the past. However,
    inasmuch as the Masons are somewhat "mysterious" in the ways already
    discussed here, they are fair game for discussion in this conference as
    well. No one here, IMHO has disparaged the group in any way, and all
    comments were based on personal beliefs and or experiences. The Masons 
    are responsible for a lot of good works, and, as you state without
    expecting recompense or praise for this, surely they would not think 
    themselves exempt from a little curiousity and speculation from the
    uninititated?
    
    
    Marilyn

    There are indeed 33 degrees in the Masonic organization, but the 33rd
    Degree is an Honorary Degree only.  You need to be a 32nd Degree Mason
    to become a Shriner.  A 3rd Degree Mason is considered a Mason and I
    believe is able then to become a Tall Cedar.  A 32nd Degree Mason
    belongs to the Consistory, and is albe to become a Shriner.   
    
    Masonry and all (including the Women's and Children's groups) of it's 
    affiliated organizations are considered Fraternal organizations.  
    
    Susan (who was a Rainbow Girl and Easten Star and who's family has many
           generations of Masons and Shriners in it.)
    
    

    Having also been a Rainbow Girl, I would have to disagree with your
    point Mike G. that these groups (Masons and Mason-affiliated) are not 
    interested in enlightenment.  What I most fondly remember about the
    organization is how beautifully mystical and spiritual the symbology was.
    
    Ro

    I was a Rainbow girl whose father (a Navy Chaplain) was a 32nd degree
    Mason.  The comment about the beautiful and mystical spirituality of
    the Rainbow girls brought back to me a few uncomfortable memories.  I
    do remember the extreme prejudice of the group and the fact that they
    did no accept blacks, hispanic, catholic or ANY girl who was not a 
    WASP White Anglo Saxon Protestant.  We actually voted in new girls with
    a ballot box and little black and white balls.  If you did not think a
    new girl acceptable, you were to drop in a "black ball" and vote her
    out.  I left after less than a year because I could not deal with this.
    Just a memory.  Maybe all is open minded today.  I would hope so but
    tend to doubt it!
    
    Pat

    Re .18
    
    I think much depends on the individual community.  During my childhood,
    my grandmother was active in the Eastern Star, in a mostly-WASP (but
    not wholly) community, and the Eastern Star and Masonic organizations
    were also mostly but not wholly WASP.  Since then, I have encountered,
    for example, several Jewish Masons.
    
    There *is* a catch to having Catholic Masons, but, the way my
    grandmother told it, the problem was more that Catholics were not
    allowed to be Masons, rather than Masons not allowing Catholics.
    I heard an intriguing theory that this conflict goes all the way back
    to medieval conflicts between the Church and the Knights Templar,
    allegedly an ancestral organization to the Masons.
    
    Once more, the Masonic conference is the obvious place to go for
    reliable information.
    
    Earl Wajenberg