Conference hydra::dejavu

    re: .0 (Ann Nonimous)
    
         There are lots of notes in this conference with similar questions.
    If you are *that* interested, spend some time reading in here
    (concerning karma, soul mates, etc.)
         To answer your question briefly, I'd say "yes" you can break
    karmic connections.  Further, you can break any other bonds which
    you may have, as well.
         The beauty of meditation (whether guided or not...this is 
    purposeful meditation, *Not* meditation which is simply "going into
    a void," etc.) is that it transcends time/space, which means that
    it'll make no difference whether the subjects are living in your
    physical reality or not.  Yes, there are certain meditations that
    can be done to "let go of" certain difficulties and/or "forgiving"
    that part of yourself (or at least forgiving oneself for going 
    through it...)
         Though I didn't detail specifics, the simple answer is "yes."
    (It may be helpful, moreover, to see karma as having more to do
    with forgiveness than with punishment...that is, most people see
    karma as being a "locked in" process, and one that is unavoidable.
    That would be somewhat incorrect.  Though we may allow a karmic
    event to occur, through forgiveness [of oneself] the karmic process
    can be terminated...without the need for any new karma or dharma
    [which is "positive" karma."])
    
    Frederick
    

  Re .0

  From my position of ignorance, I view karma and soulmates as different
  things : karma depends on your actions whilst soulmates simply *are* ...
  the two exist and interact but remain separate entities.

  > ... if you meet your soulmate, and can't be with that person, does the
  > longing ever go away?  Can you 'forget' about being with that person if
  > you choose to, or will you always feel like someone took a part of your
  > soul ?

  I don't think the longing - the "hole in your soul" - actually goes away
  but you do have a choice in how to deal with it. You may view the separation
  with pain & sadness (which may have a severely negative impact) or learn
  & grow as a result : maybe by living with it in the expectation of being
  reunited in the next cycle, maybe by overcoming the obstacles that were
  originally seen as insurmountable so you become reunited in this cycle.
  Take the opportunity to look around at the aspects of life that you have 
  previously missed due to your involvement with your mate - perhaps meeting
  other life-partners that have been in the same situation as you are now,
  ie., 'blocked' by another thread in the web, but without the awareness that
  you now possess. Although the term "soulmate" tends to imply a simple pair,
  I view it as a little wider than that ... a group of souls who are bonded
  in various ways, the strength of the bond will always be there but the exact
  relationship varies from cycle to cycle.

  The actions you take after making your choice will affect your karmic
  balance but I don't believe that the reverse applies [your karmic balance
  affecting your soulmates]. All this is IMHO but if I've read your note   
  correctly, I understand your feelings and the situation you are in.      

  Frank

    
    First, off I don't have indept knowledge of Karma, soulmates, just
    expierence ;-). So this is based on my expierence and I'm not qualified
    to get into definitions of Soul mates, twin flames etc.
    
    	I know that there is such a thing as Karmic astrology, I just
    	found out about this and it might help clarify some things
    	about the Karma nad your exact relationship with this person.
    	
    	What happened for me was 1) I have a sister who I have spent 
    	many past lives with in various relationships (not distant
    	cousins as you've said ;-)) I found this out from as pyschic,
    	we are very close, often in tune. I seem to miss her more and
    	our lives seem to intereact and be more intense than my other
    	4 siblings. This is not a problem since we are sisters and she 
    	is and always will be a close part of my life.
    	2) I had a lover I met about 14 years ago now that I had this
    	incredible attraction, connection etc. too when I met them.
    	at the time we met, they were involved with someone else, but
    	I was consumed by this person for at least 2 years, I didn't see
    	them again for the next 10, but never forgot them. When We met
    	again 10 years later, the feelings were the same and just as
     	intense only they were now single. We had a realtionship for 
    	about 2 years, which I thought was great, but wasn't complete
    	for them. They realtionship ended about 4 years ago and we are 
    	very close friends. It has been difficult for me on and off over
         the past 4 years. Partially cause I haven't met anyone that has
    	caused similar feelings and partially because of the tie and 
          and great friendship I enjoy with this person. I've have let go
    	because I truly want this person to be happy. 
    	
    	Anyways the point is that I was speaking to a friend that does 
    	Karmic astrology about this situation since we were talking about
    	my chart, and doing a quick look she explained that this person and
    	I had also been many things in past lives  together. They had 
    	protected me, been a lover and/or mother, sibling etc. which is
    	what caused the closeness and incredible, knowing and understanding
    	and comfortableness between us. I forget which was which but one
    	of owed the other and there were lesson, BUT....  the debt had
    	been paid, lessons learned and the reason we had come together
    	again had been accomplished. She said it was fine and good to 
    	remain friends as long as I could keep things in the proper 
    	perspective(which I usually do ;-)) but not realize thats all 
    	it would be and not expect more. This has help validate my sanity
    	immensely ;-0, even though my feelings are the same it helps 
    	me put it into perspective and stop wasting time wondering why
    	I feel so strongly, if I should be waiting or moving on etc.
    	
    	Now I'm not saying this is your situation, I don't know, I just 
    	hope this give you another option to check out and more information
    	to put things into perspective, good luck and if you listen to 
    	heart you will always end up at peace.
    
    Terry	

I don't agree that you have many soulmates.  Granted, you do not become lovers 
with your soulmate in every lifetime (maybe because you never meet them, or they
aren't occupying a body at the same time), but I would not say you are soulmated
to everyone who was ever your lover in any lifetime.  Lovers of past lifetimes 
are just that.  They may be a soulsibling or twin, or even have no soul bond to 
you of any type (other than the relationship in that lifetime).  IMHO, each has 
only one soulmate out there.  That doesn't mean you can't have a happy 
fulfilling, relationship with anyone else.  It just isn't the same type of 
relationship.



This is quite a coincidence for me that this topic has come up.  Right now, I am
in the midst of working with a friend in trying to resolve some problems caused
by another's abuse of the craft.  One of the problems is that his soul has been
"controlled" by threats to that of his soulmate.  We have been trying to figure
out how to "free" the soulmate so that we can then go about "freeing" him.  And
we aren't yet sure if the soulmate occupies a body at this point in time or not.
Oddly enough, things have indicated that he is my soultwin, so I have a strong
motive to help him (because it is helping myself - he is being used to try to
do something to me and my soulmate).  My soutwin and I both feel very outraged 
that this person is trying to take away the free will of several souls, and in
the process being a major nuisance, and diverting our energies and wills from a
more "natural" growth rate.  Working to resolve this has piqued my interest in
this idea of soulmates and of soul relationships, as well as how Karma impacts
the interactions of various souls.

I have found some of the responses very helpful in qualifying my own budding
understanding.  Thanks.

Beth

    IMHO = In My Humble Opinion.  Variations you'll have to work out
    yourself since as far as I know none are "standard".

    Other notes "jargon" is the "smiley-face" symbols.  People get pretty
    creative here but the basic one is ":-)" (a face on the side) or
    occasionally "(-:" which mean "this is a joke -- I don't mean it to be
    taken seriously" (which thus makes up for the lack of a "tone of voice"
    and avoids confusion).  You'll also see sad-face, ":-(" fairly
    frequently, it means "unfortunately" with an implication of "just
    because I say its true doesn't mean I think its good."  The last
    really frequent one is the wink-face ";-)", which is a smile with a
    wink -- how, precisely that differs from a straight smiley face is,
    at most, a matter of context.  You'll find hundreds of creative
    variations, most completely uninterpretable.

					Topher

>    You'll find hundreds of creative
>    variations, most completely uninterpretable.
    
    I think there was a de-facto standard for about a dozen smileys and
    abbreviations in the early days of VAXNotes, though I don't have it 
    anymore, and I don't think anyone actually used it to the letter
    for very long.
    
    As for that last comment, as Jerry Howard might have said :
    
    'I resemble that remark'  %'p  
    
    	(cross-eyed, tongue-in-cheek, turned-up-nose) :-)
    
    								todd

RE: .8

    The smiley-face came out of USENET and other external "conferences".
    Various people at various times have compiled lists.  For example,
    my (rather old) NOTES documentation (VAX notes version X1.0; 1985)
    lists the following as examples:

	:-)	Joking or sarcastic face
	:-}	Fiendish grin
	;-)	A wink
	:-(	Sad or angry face
	|-(	Late night
	~/~	Stirring up trouble

    But I'll stick to my list as the ones which have *some* chance of
    actually enhancing communication without you having to stick in an
    explanation.

				    Topher

    RE .6
    
    Could someone explain to me the difference between a soul-mate and a
    soul-twin?  Also, how does one go about finding your soul-mate?  Would
    you know them if you were in their presence?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Deb

Re: Soulmates

For the original meaning of soulmate and the definition of Twin-Ray, see notes
762.13 and 754.40.

Both 762 and 754 discusses soulmates.


Linda

    Thanks for the pointer
    
    deb

    re: .9,
    	Thanks, Topher.  That was part of the list I remembered.
    	I think 'stirring up trouble' originated as stirring up something
    	else, but was cleaned up for the Notes doc.   That's one that should
    	be used more often.  ;-)
    
    							todd

Re: .6

IMHO == In My Humble Opinion

Uh, there are various types of Love, and so I still don't see how truly loving 
someone, even beyond death means they are your soulmate.  There is only one soul 
that I have felt is my soulmate throughout the various "memories", so I still 
can't agree with your belief that each has thousands of soulmates.


As for the threat to a soulmate:  the threat is not to my soul mate, but to my
soul twin's soulmate.  So far, what I have been able to figure out, (and have
had several friends tell me they figured out on their own) someone, for reasons
yet to be fully understood but primarily driven by negative ego, "randomly" 
picked my soul and my soul twin's soul to do mischeif to us (to change the 
probabilities of our future realities).  What she didn't see when she chose us 
was that we were soultwins.  This relationship made it difficult for her 
original tactics to work, so she changed them: she "blinded" the soul of my 
twin's mate to his existence.  She then used this as a threat on him to gain his
"cooperation".

When examining whether my Karma, or my twin's Karma, have "brought this upon us",
I doubt it; there is a "feel" to her actions that places them outside of my 
Karma (but of course, she is bringing down a lot of bad karma on herself ;-).  
I try to live life with respect for all, and love for all forms of life (although 
I am not a vegetarian; something about an allergy to soy products and physical
cravings for beef make me question the wisdom of my becoming a vegetarian).  I
try to always accept responsibility for the results of my actions.  In thought,
I strive not to curse when angered, but always pray for a higher justice.  
Revenge and envy are just not worth burning energy on.

I don't meditate.  I don't travel astrally, that I am aware of (instead, I just
extend my awareness, while "I" remain in the same place).  Dreams get complex,
however.  I am aware of three types of dreams: 1. Assimilation dreams; my brain
is catching up to all the things experienced and learned, 2. Premonition
dreams ('nuf said), and 3. "active" dreams; in these dreams, I feel less that I
am dreaming, and more that I am actually doing/experiencing something.

The active dreams have been of the following types: I am getting training, I am
making something, or I am confronting/being confronted by someone.  I couldn't
give you more details than that, though I wish I could.  I do know that I don't
feel very rested after a night of dreams like these.  The body may have slept, 
but the brain sure didn't.

I did first meet my soultwin while he was travelling astrally.  He was in New
England, and I was in Georgia.  I met him physically a couple years later, after
I moved to New England.  The plans for malicious intent towards us were 
conceived and implemented prior to our meeting, either physically or astrally.

Do you see something I may have missed?

Beth

>    Have you ever "jumped" in your sleep? Some say that that's the astral
>    body returning home.

I usually jump in my sleep when stumbling or falling in a dream.  I remember 
these episodes.  I don't think I am travelling astrally.
    
>    The fact that the brain didn't sleep says that you were out galavanting 
>    in the astral, having a grand old time. If you didn't remember anything,
>    it may because it the experiences were "horrible". 

It's not that I don't remember the dreams, but that I don't remember the details.
I'll remember the gist of the dream, but not details.  Horror usually isn't 
associated with these (I remember the dreams with horror in them - I usually 
awaken from them retaining the emotional state).

Thanks for the good wishes.

Beth

    I jump alot when sleeping......it is annoying at times.  I find the
    travelling astrally interesting.
    
    
    Jannie

  
  Re .6 (& others re. soul mates from the past)
  
  Just in passing, if you get chance to see the Kenneth Branagh film
  "Dead Again", give it a try ... I can't say anything here without
  the risk of spoiling things but IMHO it's an interesting thriller ...
  
  Frank

Yes, I saw it. Not a Great film, but certainly excellent entertainment
with some wonderful twists in the plot. Like you say, can't say too much
here for fear of spoiling it for the punters..

Brian

	A lot of people here keep saying that the concept of
	Karma is dangerous, and that it is just a rationalization,
	I'm not going to debate their opinions, it's their choice
	and right to believe as they wish, I just wanted to point
	out the following...

	If everyone accepted and believed in the concept of Karma,
	no-one would commit a crime or an evil deed because they
	would stop and think about what they are about to do
	before they do it.  For example, if a person is about
	to break someone else's arm, or about to inflict painful
	damage to another, he would stop and say to himself: 
	"wait a minute, if I break his arm, I'm going to suffer 
	the same amount of pain and suffering which I am about 
	to inflict on him, so I  better don't do it".

	And, on the opposite end of the scale, people would say
	to themselves:  "I know that whatever I give will come
	back to me, so I'm going to be good, kind and generous 
	to everyone; and that way, I will receive those very
	same things in the future."  

	In either case, the effect of the knowledge of Karma
	can only be a beneficial one, everyone would be kind 
	and generous to one another, murders and serious crimes
	would be considerably reduced, and our world would be
	well on its way to become a veritable utopia.

	Even if the people do it for selfish reasons, the effect
	still would be a positive one.  Even if we assume that
	everyone will not behave in that manner, but most of the 
	population will, that would still be a great improvement 
	over our present conditions.  So how can we lose ?.
                                   

    Well... I for one don't know whether karma is real or not.
    
    But I'm not going to do anything I don't want to do regardless... so
    I suppose it doesn't make a whole lot of difference one way or the
    other.

    
    re: .21 (Mary)
    
    Exactly.  Whether Karma exists or not, I'm still going to
    live as best I know how.
    
    
    guy

    
    	If everyone would live their lives the best way
    	they can without harming anyone else in any way,
    	then our world would be a lot different than
    	it is today, but we all know that's not the case.
    
    

    I mean... who cares about whether karma is real or not actually?
    
    What matters is the kind of person you want to be.... for it's own
    sake really.  
    
    It's all a choice anyway.  I don't want to be a cruel person or a 
    vindictive person or an arrogant gloating person... I just want to be
    me... what I am... whatever that is.
    
    I choose not to hurt people because i *don't WANT to* and that's that.
    

STUDIO::GUTIERREZ 
    
>    	If everyone would live their lives the best way
>    	they can without harming anyone else in any way,
>    	then our world would be a lot different than
>    	it is today, but we all know that's not the case.
    
	Yes... but it's always been like that.... religion hasn't changed
        that.. often it's contributed to it.. just created another form
        of polarity.. another reason to differentiate between people... 
        another reason to hate.
    
        I see karma as a kind of spiritual equivalent to the physical laws
        of cause and effect... but I never really bought into all of the
        past lives part of it.
    
       I don't know... there have always been different kinds of people
       in existence... maybe we somehow balance each other out.    

    
    	Mary,
    
    		I'm not worried about people like you and guy,
    	I'm worried about those people who think that they
    	only get one chance in life, and when you die you're
    	gone, so they're going to get as much as they can
    	from life without having any concern about anyone
    	else, no matter who gets hurt.
    
    		During my boyhood, one of my friends always
    	used to say: "I'm going to do what I wish, who cares
    	who gets hurt, all I have to do is go to church on
    	Sunday and confess my sins, and then I'm free again
    	to do as I wish."   If he had believed in Karma, he
    	wouldn't have said such things.
    

    Juan,
    
    Those people are what they are.  Just like me and Guy are what we are.
    Those people aren't likely to let a belief change what they want to
    do anyway.  They just become hypocrites... going to church on Sunday
    in front of all their proper friends and doing their dirty deeds
    on Monday in the privacy of their expensive offices.
    
    Maybe karma is real (I think so) and maybe past lives do actually exist
    (I suspect they might) ... but people are what they are and ... I don't
    know... 
    
    I just don't know.
    
    I guess all religions try to change people... try to make them better
    by instilling beliefs in them.  And I don't really know how that 
    ranks up against all those other people who are out for all they can get 
    from life...  I mean... everyone seems to want something.. everyone
    seems to be playing their own game.. including me, I guess.
    
    I don't know who is right and who is wrong.  

    
    Also, part of what I consider to be living the best life I can is
    not to spend too much energy trying to change the basic nature of
    other people.  Telling them to believe in Karma is likely a waste
    of energy.  If one can be an example for others, ones ideas will
    be far more likely to take root.
    
    
    guy
     

    .28
    
    I agree, Guy