Conference hydra::dejavu

    I agree, but would also add another form of expression:  drumming.
    Having participated in drumming circles, I believe it is another way
    in which we can share our souls via sound.
    
    Ro
    

    
    
    Yes!!!  Very good topic.  Our bodies need modes of expression,
    especially now.  Our bodies hold our stories and much of our pain.
    Allowing our bodies to move the way they need to can be the first
    steps to deep healing.  And by connecting consciously with our
    bodies, we will open the door to reconnecting with the earth and
    nature the way we are meant to be.  Healing of our bodies and 
    healing of the Earth are intricately linked.  As one of my
    'personal-names' stated .... 'Thru our bodies we heal the Earth'!
    
    Carole

    Doing drumming and Afro dance myself, I can only agree with what
    has been said before. I couldn't live without it!!!
    
    Those forms of nonverbal communication can bring us much closer to each
    other than words ever could (imo).
    
      O
    <_ _>
     ( )
     / \ (... me with my Djembe ;-D ...) Karin

    An interesting note Chris,

    I remember the first time I saw a Japanese tea drinking ceremony. Here
    were these two tea masters sitting on the floor preparing and drinking
    tea. Initially I thought, "Gee, what an overrated time-wasting overly
    formal way of drinking tea!" 

    It was some time later that I realised their was some deeper
    significance to concentrating energies into a formal ritual. What the
    significance is, I'm not sure but it appears to satisfy an inner need
    to do something in a structured, sometimes rhythm way. We've all
    seen babies unprompted, respond to a bit of boppy music by jiving in
    time to the music. 

    I have seen how many a newcomer to one of them Christian
    charismatic/Baptist type meetings gets pulled along into the particular
    mode of behaviour, not so much by the message being conveyed, but
    rather, being affected by the movement and infectious somewhat
    extrovert behaviour of the assembly. The effect on some people is
    almost irresistible, amazing to observe...

    I can see at least two components:

    1. Dance: As a release mechanism, we need to do something in a rythmical
    way. Doing it in a group appears to enhance the effects. 

    2. Ritual and Ceremony - acts as a vehicle to concentrate and focus
    one's "energies" (for want of a better word.)
    
    	Deeper significance? dunno....
    
    -Brian

    Everybody dances at The Dead... but it is a very primal dance... it
    is a dance of Chaos.
    
    ....but the principle is the same....

	DANCE... I love it!.  Does the 'electric slide' count???

	;')

	Mikki

    Everything counts :-)

    Amazing synchronicity! Just last night I was reading about the Shakers.
    I was struck by similarities between their rituals and Sufis. I've been
    puzzling over questions about mass rituals and altered states. It seems
    that the surest way to induce altered states involves mass movements. 
    E.J.Gold says that that these types of activities are invocations for
    various entities, not all of which are beneficial. Some are feeding off
    collective human energies. 
    
    john

    
    At Kripalu Center (yoga/holistic retreat in western Mass) there are
    yoga classes, however there are also dance aerobics classes, some with
    live instruments (drums, etc.).  Lots of energy in the room then!  The
    class is warmup, structured line dancing, and freeform toward the end.
         
    Cindy

    
    I've taken some formal dance classes just for the fun of it, and have
    found them movements, and ways to move, helpful.
    
    Personal experience: I can use my body movements to manipulate energies
    around me easier (movement provides a focus if necessary).  Being
    empathic, I have felt the energies, mostly emotional, from group dances
    of one sort or another - the energy is the same at concerts.  The music
    (rythm, pitch, feel, tempo) helps direct the mind, as does movement.  A
    group of people singing/chanting the same thing, making the same moves,
    is a group of people directing their minds and energies in the same
    direction.  And I suspect that this is one of the cases where the whole
    is greater than the sum of the parts.
    
    I also dance for personal communications sometimes.  I often find
    myself dancing (either big movement, or little) for joy, or working
    through sorrow by dance.  And if I don't get the opportunety to dance
    frequently, I find myself feeling frustrated and angry.  I dance in
    private, though.  I have performed some dance on stage (high school
    musicals a long time ago), and have always enjoyed the feeling of this
    synchopated, choreographed movement.  But todays society does not
    provide places in public for people to gather and just free form dance 
    (bars and such are too crowded, and the purpose is not to dance, but to 
    perform todays courting rituals, which include dance ;-).
    
    I'm just rambling now, bye.
    Beth                       

    
    Having attended a gathering earlier this summer which focused heavily
    on ceremony I find this topic timely.  This was an introduction for
    me to alot of different things but the acts of dance, chanting, altered
    states and the seriousness (can't find the word I'm really looking for)
    of the rituals left me awed, inspired and wanting more.  I found it
    a perfect (for me) way to focus and maintain my energy and am hoping
    at some point to be able to find a group to join to experience this
    on a regular basis.  I think it is a shame that the majority of 
    society does not know how wonderful this all feel.  The world today
    needs a safe release and maybe this would fit the bill.
    
    MaryAnne

    More and more people are being drawn into it... it seems to be the
    way of the future.

I would like to review the data input so far, and stir in a few comments:

"Our bodies hold our stories." (CF) - Yes indeed, but inscribed how? 
Body language? Who speaks it? Who reads it? A necessary reading for 
self-knowledge? The basis for any reading of others?

"By connecting consciously with our bodies, we will open the door to 
reconnecting with the earth and nature the way we are meant to be." (CF) 
- How conscious? Isn't this the crucial question. 

Examples given so far: 

        "Japanese tea ceremony." 
	"Structured dance."
	"Drumming."
	"Free form dance."

What is the degree of `structure' and of `consciousness', in each case? 
How are structure and consciousness related?  `Structure' and `freedom'?
Does one negate the other? What part does attention play in each?

"An inner need to do something in a structured, sometimes rhythmic, 
way." (BM)  "Big movement or little." (BG)  "Music (rhythm, pitch, feel, 
tempo) helps direct the mind, as does movement." (BG) "Vehicle to concentrate 
and focus one's `energies'." (BM) "Focus and maintain my energy." (MM)  
"The way of the future." (MS) "A group of people directing their minds and 
energies in the same direction." (BG) - Something very significant here about 
the opening and concentrating effect of movement and music, especially in 
a group? A way of knowledge and power?  Much more data needed ... ? 

And what directs and gives form to energies? Forms or containers? What kinds 
of energies? Is there room for a different level of knowledge concerning 
energies? Who has it? Had it? Where? When? 

And are there different directions - 'light' and `dark', `sacred' and `profane',
`trustworthy' and `perilous'?

"Dance, chanting, altered states and the `seriousness' ..." (MM) "The whole 
is greater than the sum of the parts." (BG) - The seriousness felt all the 
more deeply, in sharing? The essence of being human? But, when does deep
become `high'? How high can I be without loosing my footing? Who, what, helps
me release my bonds, yet keeps me from stumbling? Movement and stillness!? 

"Dance aerobic classes." (CP) "A release mechanism" (BM) "I couldn't live 
without it!" (Karin) "Dance ... I love it!" (MN)   - Room for innocent play
in a domain of power? Following the example of the child, must I necessarily
remain naive? Is it all as innocent as it seems?

"Mass rituals and altered states." (JT) "Body movements to manipulate 
energies." (BG) "Energies, mostly emotional, from group dances." (BG) 
"A very primal dance ... a dance of Chaos." (MS) "Not all of these are 
beneficial." (JT) - Tremendous forces to which I am all the more subject 
in a crowd? Did someone say `manipulate'? How free can I remain to choose? 
Mostly emotional? What is really feeding here? On what or whom?

Speaking more personally: one of my friends (Jon Jerstad) makes films in 
North India of Tibetan temple dancing? Has anyone seen his work? Other friends 
have organised visits to London by the Turkish Mehvlevi (`whirling') dervishes 
who also went to France and USA. Did anyone see them? What did you think/feel? 
I have been to Japan and seen remarkable things; also various types of Indian 
dancing. But I never saw anything American Indian - the Sun dance, Peyote 
services ...?  Has anyone done so?  What about Afro-Carribean events?  Russian 
orthodox services in USSR? Yes - well before `glasnost', when people who were 
there really meant it .... I wept a great deal. And then...?

Yours.  Chris.

P.S. If anybody has authentic example(s) of `work songs' from any part of the 
world, I would be very interested, please. Interest many times redoubled if 
you have an accurate record of the song and the work movements together.

    >And are there different directions - 'light' and `dark', `sacred' and
    >`profane', `trustworthy' and `perilous'?
    
    
    In most "mass rituals", there is usually, and should be, a person who
    collects this energy, and manipulates it towards a goal.  In the
    Christian services, it is the priest or minister.  In Pagan, it is the
    high priest.  When the ritual is private, the individual directs the
    energies towards a goal.  Goals can vary from vague good wishes to
    "make XX happen".
    
    Energy is not necessarily "light" or "dark".  The source may be one or
    the other, the goal may be one or the other.  But energy just is. 
    Granted it is easier to will a dark goal with energies gathered from a
    dark source, and vice versa.  Dance tends to be a light source,
    although if the movements are changed, and the accompanying music, it
    doesn't have to be.
    
    Thinking on this one, energy is built/gathered, but the medium that
    transport the energy to the "priest" (in rituals) carries along with it
    other information - probably emotional - which defines the source. 
    When the "priest" shapes the energy to a goal, he has to expend some of
    that energy replacing the additional information if the aim of the goal
    does not match the source.
    
    If energy is not directed towards a goal, other people/things can
    'steal' the energy for their use.  A goal of just reenergizing yourself
    is probably the best to do at the least.
    
    Beth

    Funny, I was thinking about this the other day, as I have
    gone through quite a few life-altering changes in the past few
    months.  I wanted to try and create something which would celebrate
    the fact that I have come through these changes with a greater
    understanding of myself, and realized that we as a society have
    few rites or rituals to celebrate turning points in our lives.
    
    On the other hand, I believe society has lost sight of the
    small rituals and rites of everyday life, and has, in 
    consequence, diminished the significance of them.  Like what,
    you ask?  Like,
    
    birthdays
    the first day of school
    the last day of school
    spring cleaning
    fall cleaning
    cooking meals
    laundry 
    
    We get other people to clean our homes for us and in some cases
    to cook and do our laundry.  We fear aging rather than celebrating
    the wisdom it often brings.  We rush through our lives only to
    forget those times we stood at the edge and wondered how the next
    event would transform our lives.  We fear and resist change.  And
    I came up with all this while cleaning my kitchen :-) and realizing
    for the first time the rhythm involved in the daily tasks we do.
    It made the chores take on a deeper meaning.
    
    But I still hate to iron......  :-)
    
    Mary-Michael
    

    
    	I find a wonderful feeling when, at the end of a group meeting
    I attend, we all form an embracing circle and say the Lord's prayer
    together.
    
    	I feel whole as a part, as I listen to my voice in harmony with
    the others, their voices all in harmony with mine, in the structure 
    of that action. I also feel part of a whole, through the sense of
    connectedness I get with the others and everything when I do this.

    	I get no such feeling when I watch an episode of "Cheers" on
    TV... There, I'm fairly dis-connected from any sense of spirituality,
    that being effectively replaced by the (re)'ality of/on the screen.     
    	
	20th century culture promotes the latter, not the former. The
    former, like "entraining" (sp?) with others using hand drums, is
    something one chooses because what our culture promotes is no longer
    working for us.
    
    	Joe

    Cheers is only an "experience" for the actors on the set!

    
    The piece below was written in 1991 by someone known worldwide.  It
    appears on a CD insert.  
    
    Can you guess the author?
    
    Cindy
    
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    The Dance

    Consciousness expresses itself through Creation.  This world we live in 
    is the dance of the Creator.  Dancers come and go in the twinkling of an 
    eye but the dance lives on.  On many an occasion when I am dancing, I 
    have felt touched by something sacred.  In those moments, I felt my 
    spirit soar and become one with everything that exists.

    I become the stars and the moon.  I become the lover and the beloved.  I 
    become the victor and the vanquished.  I become the master and the 
    slave.  I become the singer and the song.  I become the knower and the 
    known.  I keep on dancing then it is the eternal dance of Creation.  The 
    Creator and the Creation merge into one wholeness of joy.  I keep on 
    dancing...and dancing...and dancing, until there is only...the dance.

re: 1518.19 
TNPUBS::PAINTER 

    
>    Can you guess the author?

	Guns and Roses ?  Metallica, maybe ?

	-Art  ;-}

                                              
    Re.20
    
    Hey - thanks Art! (;^)
    
    No...it's Michael Jackson from his Dangerous CD.
    
    Guess he's had a few very interesting experiences!  
    
    Cindy

    Not necessarily, Maybe just some songwriter... Probably Mikey just
    liked the sound of it.
    
    john

    Michael Jackson dances as one posessed - though WHAT possesses him, is
    anyone's guess. -;)  
    
    Laura

    His plastic surgeon?
    
    Jamie.

    You know I'm so old that I can remember when he looked like a male.

    Jamie.

    It's what possesses his fans that worries me - Ha! HAAA!!!
    
    								- JIM CAD*

         
    Heh heh.
    
    Just you wait...
    
    Cindy

                                     
          Indian Bharatnatyam Dance Lessons offered in the
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          Cindy
    
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	  Sridevi Thirumalai is a professional bharatnatyam
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