Conference hydra::dejavu

    Writing the earlier reply about St. John the Divine in New York City
    gave me the idea for this string.  I lived in New York for 5 years and
    was born there.  What is nice to do in that big, rough city?
    
    1.  Definitely - St. John the Divine Cathedral (Episcopal) on the Upper
    West Side of Manhattan.  It is being slowly constucted by local youth
    using medieval stonemason techniques under training by European
    masters.  It has a lot of beautiful sculpture, alcoves dedicated to the
    environment, and a gigantic natural crystal lit from beneath.  The Paul
    Winter Consort performs there regularly.
    
    2.  Plan to spend time at the Battery, the southern tip of Manhattan. 
    This is reputedly an energy center.  It is very refreshing with the sea
    air blowing in off the bay.  You can see Manhattan behind you, New
    Jersey, Staten Island, and Brooklyn, all from this one point.  Boats
    depart for the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island, both highly
    inspirational in American history.  There is a chapel on the Battery
    for seamen.
    
    3.  South Street Seaport (walking distance from the Battery) has
    restored ships and good food.  It is at the foot of the Brooklyn
    Bridge.  Bring copies of Hart Crane's Brooklyn Bridge poem, and Walt
    Whitman's poem on crossing to Brooklyn.  Also bring the prologue to
    Moby Dick.   Most tourists never realize the literary resonance of this
    spot.
    
    4.  Strawberry Fields in Central Park.  This section was replanted with
    money donated by Yoko Ono in memory of John Lennon.  It is across the
    street from the apartment building where they lived, and they often
    brought their son there to play.
    
    5.  The United Nations.  In the spring, the rose garden outside the
    building is lovely.  There is a huge pendulum in the lobby.  Tours are
    available.
    
    6.  The Cloisters in Washington Heights (the far Upper West Side). 
    Portions of European Medieval cloisters and chapels were imported and
    put together in a cohesive museum, a branch of the Metropolitan Museum
    of Art.  There are authentic herb gardens, piped-in chants, and lots of
    places to sit, sketch, read, and relax.  It is a cool place during hot
    weather, located on a cliff high above the Hudson River.  It is loaded
    with Mediavel art, both religious and secular, including several
    Unicorn tapestries.
    
    7.  Th Bronx Zoo.  Nearly all the animals have been relocated outside
    cages, into areas that simulate their natural environments.  A fortune
    has been spent on landscaping and it is really spectacular.  You can
    learn a great deal about animals and ecology.  The Jungle World
    building is fairly new and it is superb.  You can see Tibetan Snow
    Leopards, lions, bears, lots of birds, and much more.
    
    8.  The Metropolitan Museum of Art.  There is a top-notch Oriental art
    collection with a reconstructed Chinese courtyard under glass.  It is a
    nice place to meditate if its not too busy.  The Islamic art collection
    is great, and never busy, when its open.  There are Oriental rugs,
    cases of miniatures, and a reconstructed tile-mosaic courtyard with a
    fountain.
    
    9.  Carnegie Hall.  Of course.  This hall is central to the American
    musical heritage.  It has been redecorated recently and the sonics are
    better than ever.  There are concerts all the time and it is easy to
    get tickets.
    
    I'm sure I've left out lots of other places to go.  There are churches,
    mosques, and temples of most every religion, and a number of
    seminaries, yoga schools, and such.   Maybe other people can fill in
    more on this sketch.
    
    Has anyone been to the Tibetan art collection on Staten Island?
    
    Laura
    
    

    Unquestionably the most moving travel experience I've had is Carlsbad
    Caverns, in Carlsbad, New Mexico.  It's in the southeast corner of the
    state.
    
    I went in off-season (February) a few years ago and it was an
    incredible experience.  The National Park Service rangers give a
    beautiful tour, full of respect and reverence for the forces of nature
    that created it (a HUGE underground series of caverns with white
    stalactites and stalagmites).  Only 3 percent of the caverns can be
    viewed by the general public -- the rest is preserved as nature.
    
    At one point, in Queen's cavern, they asked us to be utterly still, to
    cover camera lights ... and they turned off all of the lights for about
    a minute.  Nobody moved or spoke.  Utter silence and darkness.
    
    After the tour, you can hang out in the great cavern as long as you
    like.  Indescribable.
    
    I recommend going when there aren't a lot of people around to fully
    appreciate the hugeness and quiet and age.  
    
    Pam

    My husband, Bill, and I had a wonderful tour of Arizona, western New
    Mexico, Utah, and southern Colorado.  For much of the trip, we focused on
    Native American reservations, crafts, and history.
    
    We really enjoyed hiking in to Navajo National Monument.  This is an
    Anaszazi (ancient ones, ancestors of Hopis and other mesa-dwellers)
    ruin.  It is actually in a remarkable state of preservation.  The only
    visitors are hikers brought in by Forest Service tours so it is very
    quiet there.  The cliff dwellings even include the wooden ladders and
    when we went, they let us walk among the buildings.
    
    We visited a fine Anaszazi village at Aztec National Monument in
    New Mexico.  This includes a reconstructed ritual room, with recorded
    chants played on speakers.  The ritual room, or "kiva" is very large,
    is several steps down into the ground, and is the only one I know of
    that you can enter.  They are sacred and prohibited to those outside
    the ritual societies.
    
    To see the living culture, we stayed at the motel on the Hopi
    reservation.  We saw a ritual dance in one of the villages.  The men in
    the ritual society emerged from the kiva several times that day,
    adorned in colorful, elaborate, symbolic costumes, and danced for
    several hours each time.  They are considered the embodiment of the
    Katchinas, which are sort of like gods or spirits.  The Katchina dolls
    are models of the actual Katchina costumes and the Katchinas
    themselves.  We felt privileged to attend and were on our best
    behavior, dressed modestly, not talking loudly, and not taking
    pictures.  (Cameras are not allowed to be used anywhere in Hopi.)
    
    We stayed overnight and toured at Monument Valley, Utah.  This is where
    the spectacular tv automobile commercials are filmed.  More important,
    this is where Navajo people live simply, in their age-old ways.  
    
    It has been said that visiting these reservations is the closest you
    can get to visiting a foreign country while inside the US.  They are in
    fact semi-autonomous and even have their own police.  This is the way
    to see the really ancient cultures of this land, and learn about their
    spiritual insights. 
    
    Laura  

    There are many places in Ireland that I would suggest, especially near
    the ocean. In particular there is a small town called Doolin, a few
    miles outside of Shannon, near the Cliffs of Mooher, which is reputed
    to be the music capital of the country (there always seem to be someone
    playing in McGanns, one of the local pubs).There is a road leading from
    the 'center' of town (i.e. where two pubs happen to be) which
    is my favorite place in the world (yes, the world - not that I've yet
    seen it all). 
    
    Standing on the road looking down at the town (such as it is), the
    ocean and a few islands are to the right, the Cliffs of Mooher are
    straight ahead about 3-4 miles, and to the left are gentle rolling
    hills. The view, the smell of the ocean and peat, the peace of the
    place and the charm of the people have made my soul sing.
    
    /Tim
    

Thank you very much, Laura, for your trip report to the Navajo, Anaszazi and
Hopi Indians. I've read several books on the Hopi, and am quite impressed by
the richness of their legends.

One question: the most recent book mentioned that a lot of Hopi territory
was under threat of being demolished by mining activities. The whole of what
they would call the 'third mesa', if I remember correctly. Has this taken
place? Is there still a risk that it will take place?

Arie

    /Tim (.4),
    
    In my travels to Ireland, one of the most mystical/spritual places I
    found was on the Aran Isles, the largest island has a fort that is 
    at least over 2,000 years old.  Can't recall the name, Dunne Angus (sp), 
    I think?!  
    
    Ro (who is wishing she could visit there again)
    

    If you're passing through Luxemburg here in Europe there is this
    magical town in the Ardennes called Esch-Sur-Sure (sp?) about an hour
    from the Luxemburg capital.  The little town is surounded by the Sure
    river and you go through short tunnels through the mountain to get to
    it. Up on the hills overlooking the town is an old fort equipped with
    an ancient (unfortunately run-down and pigeon populated) old chapel.
    The place has much atmosphere.
    
    There are lovely mountain walks which looks down on the town. The area
    must have been quite religous as there are many little shrines and old
    churches on the roadside. Even now, at Easter time, the kids walk
    through the town rattling on scratch boards and chant some verse.(I did
    not find out what the ceremony was about.)
    
    Early morning is the best and avoid the July/August season where the
    town is flooded with tourists. 
    
    Loved it!
    
    -Brian

    Reply to .5
    
    Arie,
    
    I do not know the current status of challenges to mining on the Hopi
    Third Mesa.  When I was there, it was under dispute.  I am not certain
    whether the area in question is under Hopi or Navajo jurisdiction. 
    There are simultaneous territory disputes between these tribes. 
    
    There is no direct threat to tourism in Hopi since the mining area is
    far away from the villages.  Indirectly, they are concerned about
    pollution of the water and air, destruction of the environment, and
    incursions on land they consider sacred.  The biggest threat to the air
    are the big power plants at Four Corners (where Arizona, New Mexico,
    Utah, and Colorado meet).  The air there is terrible and it spreads a
    long way.  These plants generate much of the power for LA via the grid.
    
    I recommend that you put your query into GENRAL::NATIVE_AMERICAN.  I
    did a search under "Hopi" and did not find anything about it.  It may
    be under some other name. . .  Good luck.
    
    Laura

    
    If in England, take a day or two to visit Glastonbury, which is in
    either Somerset or Avon (I forget which county). It is an incredibly
    beautiful place which fills you with peace and energy at the same time!
    
    Galstonbury is the site on a ruined Abbey in which (reputedly) were
    found the remains of King Arthur and Guenivere somewhere in the 12th
    century, though some claim it was probably a Mediaeval tourist trap.
    
    It also contains Tor hill on which is an ancient tower dedicated to St.
    Michael (?) This part is supposedly a great magnetic center. There is
    also well whose water is said to have restorative powers. 
    
    Glastonbury claims to be the famed Avalon of Arthurian legend, and has
    some historical basis for those claims. In ancient times this land was
    submerged by rising water at some periods, which probably gave rise to
    the legend that it was an island. It is also the first place in
    England where Christianity was introduced. There is a large cross in
    the Abbey grounds, donated by Queen Elizabeth, commemorating this fact.
    A tree also on the grounds of the Abbey, is said to have been planted
    by Joseph to Arimathea who supposedly came to England after Jesus's
    death.
    
    You may or may not believe all Glastonbury claims to be, but what is
    almost indisputable is that is has long been regarded as a sacred and
    wonderful place to visit.
    
    If you have time, visit the George and Pilgrim Inn, which has stood
    since the 13th or 14th centuries in Glastonbury and was built to cater
    to well-to-do pilgrims to the Abbey in its active days before falling
    victim to Henry VIII's forces during the Reformation.
    
    It is my favorite place on Earth (as you may have guessed)
    
    
    Marilyn
    

    
    Sorry the last should have read Joseph of Arimathea!
    
    
    Marilyn

As long as you're traipsing the UK, take in Stonehenge.

Not as much fun as it used to be (when I visited it before, there was
less of the thoughtless element, and the pl;ace was quite accessable.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Thailand is the place to experience living Buddhism.
    
    Everywhere you go there is a Buddhist temple ("wat").  Many of them
    have very old statues and distinctive architecture.
    
    You can see people meditating and hear monks chant from the sutras.  I
    saw women practicing walking meditation.  They walk very very slowly,
    focusing on everything going on in their bodies, and in their minds
    relevant to walking.  You'd be amazed how complex walking is, whem you
    pay attention to every muscle.  And where is the mind or will that
    controls the body?  (This question is rhetorical - no ratholes
    intended.)
    
    I remember seeing a couple releasing doves by the river.  Releasing
    wild animals is considered meritorious for this life and future
    incarnations.
    
    There are monks on the ferries and buses, on the streets walking.  They
    receive the highest respect.  You can see them on formal begging rounds
    in the early morning.  It is an honor and a duty for the women to
    provide them with food.
    
    The country has a complex amalgam of formal Buddhist religion and
    practices of local and Hindu origin.  For instance, every building has
    a spirit house - often an elaborate doll house-tyoe structure - mounted
    on a pole in the yard and often decorated with strings of flowers and
    incense.  This provides a home for, and appeases the local spirits! 
    
    The people are genuinely friendly and usually smiling.  Not for nothing
    does Thailand bill itself as the Land of Smiles.  They are extremely
    courteous.
    
    I felt like I landed on another planet when I arrived there. 
    Everything is so different.  But surprisingly comfortable!
    
    By the way, there is a Thailand notes file!
    
    Laura                   

  
  As Steve said, Stonehenge has been mainly fenced off - you can only walk
  around the outside, not through up to the stones themselves thanks to
  idiots climbing on them and carving their initials, etc., ... you don't
  have to be a druid to consider this as sacrilege to an ancient monument.
  
  On the other hand, while you're in the area, pop up to Avebury and walk
  around the circle there ... I don't know if there's a "proper" note that
  describes it but I find it's a great place, specially on more overcast
  days (so there are less people about !).
  
  There are also hundreds of tumuli around the country, some are simply the
  plain mounds that they look but others seem to be sited in particularly
  "powerful" surroundings. [ Not sure of the correct word but I mean the
  sort of subconscious awareness that seems to strike a chord within the
  heart of the spirit. ]
  
  If you prefer to find peace in more conventional settings then I'd fully
  recommend spending some time in Durham Cathedral. Again, I'm not trying
  to sell the place but, briefly, it is a Norman cathedral with additions
  from the Middle Ages and little (if any) 'tampering' from the current
  century. The overall effect is one of incredible tranquility & peace
  that calms and refreshes the soul. There are plenty of solid, old churches
  and cathedrals around the country but IMHO this is the best by far.
  
  Frank

    
    My favorite place is Zermatt, Switzerland, where the Matterhorn is.
    I've spent a total of 3 weeks there - mostly skiing and devouring
    chocolate (a spiritual experience in itself!)  The air is clear because
    no cars are allowed.
    
    Cindy

    
    Cindy, let's meet there someday.  =8-)
    
    Carla
    

Re: .14 and .15, Cindy and Carla

Hey don't leave me out if you arrange your
chocolate and skiing trip! ;-) Two of my
favourite things (physically speaking that is).

And I second the Avebury, England suggestion.

Also, check out the abbeys and cathedrals in 
Yorkshire, England (those in ruins and those still working).
I come from Yorkshire and one of my jobs was as
the verger of Selby Abbey. It was always a great
pleasure to open up the Abbey in the morning and 
do a kind of walking meditation round the church.
The peace and quietness; the soft flushes of
colour from the stained glass windows; heard
distantly, the sound of birds outside.

And if you are searching for an old and lonely
wilderness, try the west coast of Scotland. It's
exceptionally beautiful. Take a cottage and just
ramble in the hills and by the lochs. (And to make
this slightly relevant - there is a very large stone
circle on Stornaway in the Outer Hebrides that is
a *very* long way off the beaten track).

John_in_a_farflung_outpost_of_Digital_called_Switzerland.

    Cindy,
    
    Yes, Zermatt is beautiful.  I second John's recommendation regarding 
    Scotland.  Both you and Carla are welcome to UK.
    
    girish

    Girish,
    
    Please keep us posted on your impending plans to visit Nashua.  We
    would be happy to hold a Dejavu dinner in your honor (lot of party
    folks in this crowd)!!!
    
    BTW, have a Happy Birthday!!
    
    Ro
    

    Has anyone else visited Israel?  What were your experiences?
    
    I went there about 10 years ago.  I particularly enjoyed my time in
    Jerusalem.  I didn't have strong feelings at the Wailing Wall (I am a
    Jew), which was surprising.  But I did enjoy immersing myself in the
    city's history by taking the municipal walking tours and wandering the
    streets by myself.  The monument at the Garden of Gethsemane is
    particularly pretty.  I felt moved when I saw the excavated remnants of
    the older city walls, dating back to First Temple period.
    
    I also enjoyed a bus tour into the Galilee, and a tour to Massada.
    
    My sense of the country was strongly bittersweet, with deep currents of
    history and identity beneath.  It was a complex experience, and very
    rewarding.
    
    Laura

    I have just returned from Stonehenge which is great, but Avebury is by
    far, greater.
    
    Visit the museum which contains some of the finds made at Avebury.
    
    Very close by is Silbury Hill a 39.5m man-made hill which still remains
    a mystery.  
    
    This whole area is very special, and I believe still quite unspoilt.
    
    Don't ever drive past.
    
    Mary Ann
    

In many ways my spritual place is virtual...nowhere in particular...... but 
anywhere there is sea.

Between Salem and Gloucester on a full moon night with ocean swell
 Moonlight on a black fun house mirror
 Gentle sounds whispering nothingness as the swell crashes on nearby islands
 
One hundred miles from shore surrounded by 20 pilot whales whose breath you can
 hear, as though they were human divers...who just swam over to be with you..
 no expectations, no gain other than the company of other beings at dusk.

Rowing in the harbor watching the changing reflections, colors...a thousand
Monets at every turn.

Red, yellow, purple sea at sunset ever changing...calming....opening
allowing my deepest thoughts to emerge and be set free.

On top of a cliff, looking down at the surge of hurricane swell as it
transforms water into patterns of foam as a seagull flies below.

In a storm three hundred miles from shore...and I face my mortality in a
cathedral of breaking waves where the air forced  makes the dark waters look
pale blue green like tropical waters covering sandy beaches.

On a moonless night, as my hand on the tiller guides a sailboat through the
 night...using the constellations as guides.... as my shipmates sleep like
 babies below.

    Yes.... I've been there in my mind.