Conference hydra::dejavu

    Re .0:
    
    The usual tradition is that each of the more common metals has a mystic
    connection to the (esoteric) planets.  This, classically,
    
    Sun ==> gold
    Moon ==> silver
    Mercury ==> quicksilver (aka "Mercury")
    Venus ==> copper
    Mars ==> Iron
    Jupiter ==> tin
    Saturn ==> lead
    
    This has been extended by some to include the "discovered" planets ..
    
    Uranus ==> uranium
    Neptune ==> neptunium
    Pluto ==> plutonium
    
    I would strongly suggest _not_ wearing these last three, as they are
    radioactive.
    
    There are associations with the various planets, and on that basis, the
    metals generally share conditions.  For instance, both the sun and
    Jupiter are associated with good health, wealth, etc.  Venus is
    associated with love and lust, Mars with strife and emnity, Mercury
    with commerce and learning, Saturn with the home and aspects of the
    supernatural.  Each of the "classical" planets has associated gems,
    too:
    
    Sun ==> topaz, diamond
    Moon ==> pearl, quartz
    Mercury ==> agate, opal
    Venus ==> emerald, turquoise
    Mars ==> ruby
    Jupiter ==> amethyst, sapphire
    Saturn ==> onyx, sapphire  
     
    The gems mounted on the appropriate metal (e.g., a "Saturn ring" might
    be a lead ring with an onyx cabochon) enhance the effect.  In the case
    of Mercury, an amalgum of mercury and gold can be used for the ring
    material; also, stones alone could be mounted in gold (though that's
    something of a cop-out).  Appolonius of Tyana was given a set of
    "planetary" rings by the ancient Brahmins of India (not to be confused
    with the modern variety), and he wore the appropriate ring for each day
    of the week.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    When I was in high school (early 70's) all the girls and women in my
    neighborhood (and some of the men) wore silver bangles from the West
    Indies for protection.  The bangles were supposed to serve as a warning
    - if your bracelets turned black for no reason it meant either that
    someone wished you harm, or that there were toxins in your body that
    you needed to get rid of.
    
    I remember three occasions when my bracelets turned black.  One time it
    turned out that I was walking around with that year's exotic flu and
    didn't know it till I blacked out in a movie theatre.  The other two
    times there didn't seem to be any apparent physical relationship, but
    they went back to normal in about a week (indicating that the problem
    had gone away).  Polishing your bracelets was a no-no; it destroyed the
    chemical interaction between your body and the silver.  And no one
    would wear American-made (mass produced) silver bracelets, either.
    
    Virginia 

    Re:0
    
      Read the Old Testament of the bible: there were many people who
    worshipped gold, silver, and other types of idols. You will also
    discover that the God of Isreal was very displeased because of that;
    and those who had the idols as gods were destroyed.
    
    Lorenzo
    

    Re .3 (Lorenzo):

    Hi, brother Lorenzo!  Good to see you're still dropping by.

    >  Read the Old Testament of the Bible: there were many people who
    >worshiped gold, silver, and other types of idols.

    I don't think that's what .0 was talking about.  In that note, the
    writer asked:
     
    >Has anyone ever come across info on the powers of metals (when worn)?
    
    Now in the mid to late 1960s, there was a "copper bracelet" fad, where
    people felt that wearing a bracelet of copper would help certain
    ailments (e.g., rheumatism).  And in fact, certain metals are (and have
    been) used medicinally (e.g., arsenic for amebic dysentery). 
    Additionally, such things as iron deficiency can lead to anemia.

    However, .0 asked also,

    >I know within a few cultures - gold is a protector against evil forces,
    >but never read any lore (etc) regarding this.
     
    So that person wanted to understand some of the traditions of
    metal-wearing.  I tried to address this in my reply (.1).

    You pointed out

    >....................................................  You will also
    >discover that the God of Israel was very displeased because of that;
    >and those who had the idols as gods were destroyed.
     
    But I didn't see the word "idol" or even "worship" in the query. 
    Indeed, In Ex 35:5, Moses tells his people to offer up unto the Lord 
    "gold, silver, and brass," as materials for the Ark of the Covenant and
    the tabernacle; and those metals were surely used in the Lord's work.
    It isn't the metals, or even their properties (which is what I took the
    initial query to mean), but the uses to which they were put.

    The Lord wasn't displeased with gold; however, when the gold was
    shaped into a calf, and _then_ worshiped as a god ...

    God bless,

    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    re: .3, .4,
    	Very, very confusing to me.  It sounds from my perspective like a 
    	whole collection of different concepts (good/evil, spiritual devotion, 
    	Bible, postulated forces, etc.) are being lumped together with
    	fuzzy terminology under the terms 'worship' and 'protection from 
    	evil forces'.
    	
    	Would Lorenzo or Steve mind explaining to me what it means in
    	simple terms for someone to worship a material, and how that
    	differs from directing mental focus on an arbitrary object,
    	or devoting ourselves to any creed, object, or book ?   Is there
    	a specific type of behavior or moral code associated with
    	devotion to precious metals for some people ?
    
    							todd

    re: .5 (Todd)
    
         Perhaps I'm wrong, but it might have to do with the 
    intense fear most fundamental or strict or fanatical Christians
    (for starters) display at *anything* or *anyone* being idolized
    EXCEPT for Jesus, who of course CAN and SHOULD BE be idolized (in 
    their minds.)  
         Can't let any other threats in, you know?
    
    Frederick
    

    Re .5 (Todd):
    
        >Would Lorenzo or Steve mind explaining to me what it means in
    	>simple terms for someone to worship a material, and how that
    	>differs from directing mental focus on an arbitrary object,
    	>or devoting ourselves to any creed, object, or book ?
    
    Umm.  In my response, I noted:
    
    >>  Read the Old Testament of the Bible: there were many people who
    >>worshiped gold, silver, and other types of idols.
    >
    >I don't think that's what .0 was talking about.  In that note, the
    >writer asked:
    > 
    >>Has anyone ever come across info on the powers of metals (when worn)?
    
    I don't associate that with "metal worship."  I also pointed out that
    .0 didn't mention "worship."
    
    To explain that metal was neither inherently "good" nor "evil," I
    pointed out one of many scriptural passages wherein metals were used
    for what a reader could assume was an other-than-evil purpose in its
    context.
    
    However, .0 asked also,

    >I know within a few cultures - gold is a protector against evil forces,
    >but never read any lore (etc) regarding this.
     
    So that person wanted to understand some of the traditions of
    metal-wearing.  I tried to address this in my reply (.1).
    However, .0 asked also,

    >I know within a few cultures - gold is a protector against evil forces,
    >but never read any lore (etc) regarding this.
     
    So that person wanted to understand some of the traditions of
    metal-wearing.  I tried to address this in my reply (.1).
    
    You said:
    
    > ... It sounds ... like ... different concepts ... are being lumped
    >together ... under the terms 'worship' and 'protection from 
    >evil forces'. ...
    
    I suspect that .0 was asking for traditions while .3 was concerned
    about fashioning metals into objects of worship.  Apples and oranges.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.     

    
    Lorenzo truly means well, and his opinion is just as valid here as 
    anyone elses.
    
    As for .0 - I've come across several references to metals being used to
    heal in "Autobiography Of A Yogi" by Yogananda.  Yogananda himself was
    very skeptical of this practice (astrological bracelet wearing to heal) 
    while growing up, however his guru, Sri Yukteswar, once prescribed him 
    to wear a certain mix of metals in a bracelet. to lessen the impact of
    an illness he was going to fall victim to.  While Sri Yukteswar did 
    reply to Yogananda that indeed ultimate healing power comes from God, 
    that the metals facilitated in strengthening the aura - that this was 
    a physical property.  It worked, and from that moment on Yogananda wore 
    the bangle throughout the rest of his life. (I'm not explaining the
    story very well - it's far better in the book itself, and this is only
    one of many stories on this same topic.)  Sri Yukteswar also 
    mentioned that flawless gems of not less than 2 carats also worked 
    in this same way.  Unfortunately there are no actual details given in 
    this book about proportions of the metals or of gems re: the various 
    illnesses.
    
    I'm requesting the catalog from the Self-Realization Foundation listing
    Yogananda's works and if he's written more on this subject, I'll post
    the title(s) here.
    
    Cindy

    
    I thought "metal worship" was what heavy-metal fans did....
    
    guy

>    I suspect that .0 was asking for traditions while .3 was concerned
>    about fashioning metals into objects of worship.  Apples and oranges.
    
    Thanks.  That helps.
    
    					todd

    Not to change the subject but.....
    	
    	I read somewhere that the Aztecs believed if they wore copper
    bracelets on their left rist that their heart rate would go up,
    therefore giving them more stamina, and the oppisite if worn on the
    right then the heart rate would be lower.  But then they also believed
    that the sun would not come up with out sacrificing a virgin.
    

re: .11,
>	But then they also believed
>    that the sun would not come up with out sacrificing a virgin.
    
    Are you implying that this belief is untrue ?   How would you test it ?
    You can't even find virgins anymore, much less figure out when and
    where they're being sacrificed in order to verify this hypothesis.
    
    							todd

    
    Maybe YOU can't find them.....;-)
    
    guy

    HEY, I'm a virgin...I'll get it.  
    
    WHAT???!!  OOHHHhhhhhhh, I though you sack of rice...left my miracle
    ear at home.  Never mind....
    
    The above was just a joke...
    
     I don't wear a miracle ear!!! ;-) ;-) ;-)))))))))))))
    
                                                            Capt. Scott

    Trying to get back to the subject:
    
    In some cultures, "cold iron" was used as a defense against some kinds
    of supernatural entities (e.g., malevolent ghosts) and as hex-breakers. 
    The hex-breaking tradition is echoed vaguely in the idea that a(n iron)
    horseshoe brings good luck.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.