Conference hydra::dejavu

    
    
    	I've been there, once, a few years ago. It IS in a scary 
    	location (ie isolated), but the cemetary itself was full of
    	damage, trash, and grafiti, more sad than scary. I think 
    	the tales associated with it are probably scarier than anything
    	else (but I still wouldn't go there at night!! :) )
    
    	Sherry
    

Since this hasn't seen responses in a while, would anyone mind if I turned it 
into a topic about cemetaries in general?  Any intersting stories to relate?

I have a few, but I should start by pointing out that I come from a family that
for a few (3 or 4) generations tended a Catholic cemetary.  There home was
provided for them by the church, and was inside the cemetary.  So cemetaries in
general do not worry me, and are usually restful and safe feeling.

I have seen a few that are unhappy - these are usually ill tended and abused 
(like Spider's Gate seems to be).  Although I haven't seen this, in one place 
friends have seen a dead body occasionally climbing the fence around it.  I've 
been to it, and it is unhappy, and there does seem to be a presence in force 
there, but bodies wondering is suspect.

In another cemetary, some friends and I noticed several "circles" of some kind.
We mapped them out, then played connect the dots.  We were able to generate the
following symbols using some or all of the points:

Tree of Life
Ankh
Cross
Pentacle (I think that's the right term, just the star, no cirle around it)
Star of David

Beth

    My grandfather passed on in 1964. On the day of the funeral, my dog
    ended up missing. We let her out to run and she didn't come back. We
    had to leave and as she had done this in the past we weren't to
    worried. She usually came home pregnant. :-) Around 5 hours after the
    funeral was over and everyone had left for home, my father had to go to
    the store as we were running out of groceries. Practical, he was.
    Anyway, as he was passing by the cemetary to get to the store, he
    stopped in to say another farewell to his father, and there was my dog
    lying on my grandfather's fresh grave. 
    
    Phil

    The one gravestone I will always remember is in a cemetary in
    Marlboro, Ma.  It reads simply:
    	
    		Sam White
    		(colored)
    
    	       18xx - 19xx  
    
    sigh,
    
    Karen

    re: .4 (Karenunnery)
    
         The one I'll probably never forget is the one Dan pointed out
    in a cemetary near Harvard Square almost two months ago...it seemed
    very appropriate, ironic and funny at the time (and you and six others
    were present, remember?)
         On the side, one word only...that word...DANA
    
         
    Frederick
    

    
    
              My most memorable grave yard (I can't remember where) was
    right between opposing lanes of an Interstate. At first I thought how
    nice that "progress" bowed to humanity. Then I wondered about the 
    residence of the graves. Did it matter to them?
    
                               Later,
                                Mark
    

     Know why they put fences around graveyards?



     Cause people are just dying to get in  ;-)  ;-)))

  

	I would like to relate a cemetery story and I appologize
if it gets a little long.  I think I should give some background information
on circumstances that surround the story.

	First of all, it is a story about a cemetery in the northeastern
part of Pennsylvania.  It is a very old, large cemetery in the colonial or
pre-colonial town of Forty Fort(so named for an early fort and it's
occupants).
	In the summer of 1972 the area was hit with a devistating flood as
a result of heavy rains caused by Hurricane Agnes. Almost the entire Wyoming
Valley was under water.  The cemetery was located on the Susquehanna River
with its front bordering one of the main Avenues of the town.  The area
had old retaining dikes along the river because of previous floods.
The dikes were in sad shape and over the years the land settled far below
the protective height needed if a big flood should hit.
	At 2:00 on June 24, the dikes broke at the Forty Fort cemetery.
Approximately 2,000 graves were washed out!  The amount of land washed out
dwarfed dump trucks that began the job of refilling the area.  Needless
to say, bodies, coffins and even cement burial vaults washed into
neighboring towns.  Stories of *what you found* when you went home to
clean up, were unbelievable!
	Because of the devistation and the looting that seems to follow on
the heels of other's misfortune, a VERY strict curfew was put into affect.
No one was allowed on the streets after mid day without a very good
reason. People were arrested on the spot, if caught without a permit.
	During this time, local newspapers carried all sorts of human
interest stories, rescue efforts and reports of property damage. One day
my neighbor called me over and asked if I saw the latest article on the
Forty Fort cemetery.  It seems that a reporter was flying over the area
in a helicopter, taking pictures of the damage in several of the towns
and also the cemetery.  When the photos were being developed he noticed
something strange in one of the cemetery photos.  It seems that someone
was down in the cemetery doing something?  He blew up the shot and found
something very bizzare.  It looked like a person bending over and putting
something in a sack that was laying on the ground next to him.
I say "person" but "figure" is more like it.  Because the photo was taken
from a helicopter, the figure was shot from the top and back of the head,
back shoulders and down.  The figure was extremely thin bordering on
skeleton like, and it had absolutely no hair!  Not only that,
it appeared to be unclothed except for dark shorts(or something) that
covered the midsection.  When I saw the photo from the newspaper, I got
goose bumps and felt very uncomfortable.  I studied and studied the figure
but could not imagine who or what it could be doing.
	The newspaper and police offered a award for any information that
could be given on who or what was in the picture.  For several reasons it
seemed unbelievable that someone should risk being out and clothed in that
manner.  The "person" was violating the curfew by being out at that time.
They also risked the danger of infection from cuts or accidentally
ingesting any of the poluted water if they slipped into any of the deep
puddles that were still around.  Warnings were constantly being
broadcast on the need for Typhus and Tetanus shots.  What was the "person"
putting in the bag, old jewelry deposited from the bodies?
	Because of all the excitement of the flood and the massive
cleanup effort, I never heard an answer to the riddle of the figure
in the cemetery.  I have alot of newspaper clippings and a book that
was published on the disaster but I often wish I had a copy of the
mysterious photo.
 
Elaine

    

    
    
    Great story Elaine!
    
    Carole

    If I were you, I'd send it along to Stephen King ASAP!  Sounds like
    something right up his alley.
    
    Any one ever see the stone in the old Groton, Mass. cemetary for the
    Scot who was acused of being a witch?  It's not too far from the
    kirk (church...)
    
    S
    

    I've been to "Spider Gates".  Many times, as it was a kick to us
    kids to bike up to the airport and lay on the hill at the end of 
    the runway as the planes took off.  (And not many took off then, 
    either, so it was a treat when one finally did.  We spent the rest
    of the time exploring the area.)
    
    It can be called spooky, as there's a lot of old foundations around
    (and wells, so be careful) from when Worcester extended the runway,
    the town dump is (was?) out that way, there's a swampy area, and,
    of course, the cemetary, so named due to the gates with the spider
    on it (taken long before I started going there).  A family cemetary,
    still in use as late as the early sixties (unless someone dug a
    std.-sized grave just for the heck of it), stands neglected, more
    so now then when I was a boy.  Actually a beautiful spot, set in
    amongst the trees, a newer stone here and there stands out from
    the older ones, quiet and peaceful.  A nice place to spend eternity
    (if the vandals would just stay away).
    
    In the daylight it is a wooded area with gravestones; at night it
    is a shadowy, mysterious place, quiet except for the wind rustling
    the leaves (more effective in the Fall) as at that time (late fifties/
    early sixties) few aircraft took off from the West runway).  The
    mind's eye saw shadows flit from stone to stone, the ears picked
    out footsteps, always behind you or out there in the dark, and Heaven 
    forbid there was an owl around!
    
    But it is all your imagination (and no one I ever spoke to about
    it had anything supernatural to report), and the scariest event which 
    could happen is that the night you chose to test your bravery 
    coincided with an older teens' drinking party. 
                      
    Actually, I'm missing a bet here; I should have made something up.
    
    							Don
                   

    Since you asked......  Three years ago my 17 year old daughter (usual 
    and true parental disclaimers about her intelligence, "down-to-earthness",
    etc - BTW, the kid doesn't drink nor do dope) and two friends decided
    to debunk a persistant myth about the haunting of the "Blue Lady"
    cemetary in Wilton Center, NH.  So on a night when the Blue Lady was said to
    "walk" (i.e. a full moon), the 3 of them drove in ready to ghost-bust.
    
    Tho the details were not related to me in a terribly coherent manner at 
    2 a.m. when they all arrived at our place, I can tell you SOMETHING
    scared the living you-know-what out of these kids.  Apparently they saw
    a blue glow near one of the graves, and though not venturing closer to
    it than the entrance to the Cemetary, felt a dramatic drop in temperature
    They all said they felt a definite presence that didn't want them near.
    
    Around then, the body of the lad who was at the wheel became rigid and he 
    began speaking in a strange voice, speaking
    an unknown (to them) language. He was drooling at the mouth and
    his eyes were staring - (No, he was not experiencing an epiliptic
    seizure).  The other lad was crying (quite atypical!) and my daughter
    was white and shaking! She didn't turn out the lights in her room for
    several nights afterward and kept the radio softly playing constantly.
    
    Any thoughts or ideas?  This may seem easy to dismiss as a bunch of
    high schoolers playing some kind of prank - *unless* you knew the kids 
    and saw them that night.
    

    
    Re.12
    
    The color blue is holy, in Hinduism.  Krishna and Sri Ram are usually 
    pictured with blue skin, for example.
    
    The coolness is the Holy Spirit - the 'cool breeze' as talked about in
    the Sahaja Yoga note (which I have finally felt myself!), or also known
    as a kundalini awakening.
    
    Cindy

Hi,
	Back in Gosport where my family lives, there was a massive cemetary 
which I remember (great place) ... wouldn't like to have been there much after
dark though...

	It was the dead-centre of town! (Pfffttt!!! :-)  )

	DRrrrrrrmmMMM  {Clash!!}
	
	Mind you, I can't make any bones about it (SNNKKKkkkk :-) )

	DRRrrrrrrmmmMMM {Clash!!}

	It was so packed there was no room to breathe! (Okay, okay...)

	DRrrrrrrmmMMM {Clash!!}


								- JIM CAD*

    re: .12 (::MILLETT)
    
         I don't like to get into lots of things, for example, Astrology
    or Tarot or dreams...and ghosts, etc., either.  But I'd like to make
    just a quick sort of comment about this, if you don't mind.
         First off, much of the stuff in our reality manifests from our
    unconscious mind (the rest from either the sub-conscious or conscious
    minds.)  "Ghosts" are most likely from the unconscious.  So, it is entirely
    possible to manifest stuff like this.  Another point, if we don't seek
    out the unconscious mind, it will seek *us* out.  The important thing
    to remember here is that the unconscious mind holds far more of value
    than of deterence.  But placed in the hands (mind) of a hormonally
    raging teenager, the unconscious that manifests consciously is very
    likely to be that which titillates the most.  That is, it is totally
    unsurprising to me that a bunch of teenagers set out to scare the
    pyschic shit out of themselves (though clearly not expressed this way)
    and accomplished exactly that.  Is it "real?"  Yes, and no.  The
    things that manifest in this way in our reality tend to be more
    "fluff" because there simply aren't enough supporting beliefs to 
    maintain them.  So, in that sense they aren't "real enough."
    Is there anything to worry about?  Not unless the goal is worry
    itself.  That is, you can perhaps create a "Freddy Krueger,"
    but it isn't very likely, for there isn't enough support in our
    beliefs to warrant a "Freddy Krueger" existence.  By the same token,
    we have much greater power to create a "banishing force" than 
    vice versa.  Would I worry about it?  Hard to say, because if at this
    stage of the game I developed junk like that I'd be sorely disappointed
    in myself...and there would doubtlessly be more anguish for me in
    my lack of clear thought than there would be fear in regards to the 
    garbage itself.
        The emotion of fear is *real.*  Honor that.  But the symptom or
    the manifestation of the fear is *not* real.  There really isn't 
    any*thing* to be afraid of...rather it's the feeling that is genuine
    and needs to be addressed.  
        I'll drop this for now, but just let you know that what you've
    witnessed is the power of focus...a power that teenage minds are
    notoriously able to engage.  Did it happen?  Probably, yes.  But
    it can just as easily be undone, by focusing on something to undo
    it.
    
    Frederick
     

    re: .16 (Cliff)
    
         To it being all in the mind...well, the mind as such ceases
    to exist upon death, so this splits the discussion.  This also
    ties in with the concept of subjective versus objective reality.
    I believe that objectivity is a *subset* of subjectivity.  Most
    people in my reality hold the opposite view.  But if what I say
    is true, then, yes, the Earth, etc., ceases to exist in my
    consciousness upon death.  At least for so long as I remain a
    singular entity.  Since all time is simultaneous, however, then
    the Earth still exists as an available dream to other aspects of
    myself...and to the extent that I can take on the multiplicity of
    myself, then I can also continue to hold its existence; that is,
    the Earth will always be there--just not in "Frederick's"
    consciousness, since "Frederick" will have moved on somewhere else,
    *unless* "Frederick's consciousness" *remembers* the other parts of
    himself that also exist on Earth.  
         I don't think this is being expressed very clearly...but the basic
    response is that as the consciousness leaves the Earth plane, then
    yes, the Earth ceases to exist for that consciousness.  AND, there is
    no more Earth anywhere unless it returns to that consciousness as
    that consciousness becomes human once again, if it chooses to.  It
    never really goes away, it just only exists when we "will it."  There
    is no life existing apart from our consciousnesses, in other words.
         As to our unconscious seeking us out...well, this is not something
    I *own* totally, at this point.  But this ties in to understanding
    what the unconscious mind is and how it relates to the shadow.  The
    shadow is, loosely stated, the dark side of the unconscious mind.
    What your original note expressed was the manifestation of the shadow.  
    To understand what life is about is to also accept some concepts that
    have no proof.  Among these is the concept of the soul.  If you can
    accept the concept of soul, then you can probably also allow that the
    soul goes through various stages/faces/phases.  Each and every life
    and lifetime has a complete set of these faces available to it.  
    Among the faces is one called the "shadow" (see 358.133.)  This 
    WILL HAPPEN.  But, rather than letting it "happen" in some sort of
    powerless manner, we can MAKE it happen or force it or engage it
    voluntarily.  In other words, we can seek it before it finds us.
    The beauty in this is that we then don't have to allow whatever it
    throws up at us, we can choose the time, etc., and can deal with
    it with "control."  But the significant point to remember is that
    the shadow WILL expose itself to us, somehow or other.
    
    Frederick