Conference hydra::dejavu

Virendra,

thank you very much for typing this in. It's something to read and
re-read...

One question: I have heard of Hatha (sp?) Yoga. How does this relate to
the three types of yoga you mentioned?

Arie

RE: .0 and .1

I goofed up little bit. By Raja Yoga, I meant Jyana (Knowledge) Yoga. Thus,
there are three fundamental types of Yogas: Jyana Yoga for sattawic type
of people, Karama Yoga for people of action, and Bhakti Yoga for emotional
type of people.

An examination of such Upanishads as Sandilya, Yogatattva, Dhyanabindu,
Hamsa, Amrtananda, Varaha, Mandala, Brahmana, Nadabindu and Yogakundali
will reveal that yoga practices other than Karma and Bhakti grew in
different directions in accordance with the doctrines of the Saivas and
Saktas ranging from Mantra Yoga on one extreme and Hatha Yoga on the
other. Yogatattva describes four kinds of Yogas: Mantra Yoga, Laya Yoga,
Rajayoga and Hathayoga.

Hathayoga means "forced meditation" whose sole purpose is long and healthy
life through constant practices of elaborate nervous exercises which were
also associated with healing and other supernatural powers. 

A Hathayogi is determined not to fall sick and he/she never does. One is 
quite young at an age of 150 years without a single hair turning grey. 
Hathayogi can stop the heart beats at will and can stand on one leg for 
months or even years. Hathayogi is simply a very healthy animal. There
is no psychological development. No faith in scriptures is required to
do this kind of Yoga. This practice is very hard to perform by a normal
person. 

As an example, following Hathyoga practice is useful in removing headaches,
drink cold water through the nose as soon as you get-up in the morning, the
whole day your brain will be nice and cool, and you will never catch cold.
It is easy to do it. Put your nose into the water, draw it up through the
nostrils and make a pump action in the throat.

Rajayoga suits for empiricists type of people and its purpose is not only
good health but also spritual development. This also require no faith in
scriptures and never takes anything for granted. One gets motivated to a 
next stage only after getting satisfied with the current stage. Following
eight stages are prescribed to practice Rajayoga: Yama, Niyama, Asana,
Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi.

Jyana Yoga is suited for rationalists type of people and does require
a guru and faith in scriptures. It is claimed that this practice achieves
results in the shortest possible time probably one or two lifetimes. This
is the path of knowledge and reason. Buddha probably got nirvana in one
life time using Jyana Yoga. 

Jyana Yogi peels the universe layer by layer, as it were, and reaches its
very core and comes to be blessed with the Supreme Realization. There are 
three steps to achieve perfect knowledge by this practice: Shravana (Hearing),
Manana (Cogitating) and Nididhyasana.

The first step (Shravana) consists in hearing about the real Self. One
has to do this from an illumined guide. A liberated sage alone can speak
effectively on the subject and clears the pupil's doubts, provided the
pupil also is duly qualified. Such a sage has to be approached by the
pupil with humility, pertinent queries and service so that he may disclose
the secrets of Self-Knowledge. When, however, such a sage is not available,
one has to be guided at least by a well-advanced soul. Under such guidance
one should study the relevant Scriptures dealing with Self-knowledge.

The second step is "manana", that is cogitation. One has to reason out
what has been heard from the guru (spritual guide) and the Shastras 
(scriptures). A good deal of hard and almost constant thinking is necessary,
since one has to dwell on very subtle abstractions. And this has to be
done with one-pointed attention. The purpose of manana is to correct
confused thinking although we claim to know a good many things of the
universe. (for instance, what one means when referring to such words as
I, me, my, mine etc?). Through manana, the qualified aspirant is able
to grasp the fact that detached from the gross and fine bodies, the
he/she stands aloof as the Witness, the Supreme-Self.

The third step, nididhyasana, requires the Jyana Yogi at this stage to
withdraw himself entirely from all things and concentrate on the idea,
"I am the Witness". When such concentration matures, suddenly everything
vanishes from the scene and one finds onself one with the Eternal Spirit.
This state is called "nirvikalpa samadhi".
 
- Virendra

    
    Where would Sahaja Yoga fit in all this?
    
    -Kevin ,

	Re: .3 Sahaja Yoga integrates and goes beyond all previous
   yogas. (For those new to this topic, there is an extended
   discussion of Sahaja Yoga in Note 401.*, earlier on in this
   Conference.) 

	We are indebted to Virendra for his learned presentation, but
   none of the practices he has described are any help to the average
   westerner living a busy life in society, with a job, family
   responsibilities, and so forth. The old paths of yoga implied a
   complete withdrawal from normal life to sit at the feet of a guru
   somewhere in the jungles or the mountains, and following a life
   entirely devoted to meditation in the hope of one day receiving
   Self-realisation through Kundalini awakening. Sahaja Yoga was
   conceived by Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi to give en-masse Kundalini
   awakening to ordinary people, like all of us, giving all the fruits
   of yoga as described in the ancient texts and culminating with the
   ineffable joy of being one with God. Sahaja Yoga is a spontaneous
   experience and cannot be attained by study.

	(A note on Hatha Yoga. The word "Hatha" comes from two Sanskrit
   roots He and Tha meaning "Sun" and "Moon", symbolising the left and
   right sides of the subtle nervous system. The various asanas are
   intended to bring the left and right sides (Tamo and Rajo gunas, or
   Yin and Yang) into balance, allowing the Kundalini to rise more
   easily, and to rectify the flow of subtle energy through the
   different chakras.

	To do Hatha Yoga correctly, one has to know which chakras need
   attention and in what way the left and right sides may be out of
   order (each asana being prescribed for a particular condition), and
   to know this one needs Self-realisation. This is why Patanjali, in
   his Yoga Sutras, said that any yoga practice, whether Hatha Yoga,
   Pranayama, or any of the various yogas Virendra has outlined, is
   futile in the absence of _Atmasakshatkar_, becoming the Spirit,
   through the awakening of the Kundalini. Modern Hatha yogis, who
   don't have this awakening, are in the situation of someone who,
   feeling vaguely unwell, decides to take some medicine, and, not
   knowing exactly what to take, consumes a little of everything...)

	Anyway, for more details, check out 401.*...

	Phil

RE: .3

Since it deals with the control of the nervious system, it is a kind of
Hathayoga. You will find such variations all over the place depending upon
the teacher. It is like a process; some processes are more effective than
the others depending upon so many factors as the nature of the aspirant, the 
teacher, food and so many other environmental conditions. 

    
    I was using a beginner Hatha yoga tape the other evening (from Kripalu
    - Megha) for the first time, and the first 22 minutes were essentially 
    Jane Fonda stretching exercises at 1/4th the speed.
    
    Jane leaves out the references to prana though.  (;^)
    
    Cindy

RE: .4 (Phil)

I don't think yoga practices imply complete witdrawal from life for all
all aspirants. In fact karma yoga is meant for a householder or working
people. Through this yoga, one can get same results as a wandering yogi.
On the contrary, without karma yoga, a wandering yogi can never achieve
the final goal because of the nature of karma. The nature of karma is to
produce effect or karma phala. A wandering yogi may do all wonderful
things, but, if he acts in such a way as to produce "bad" karma", he is
not likely to achieve anything. A "true" yogi need to understand all types
of yogas especially karma and bhakti before taking up higher yogas. We should 
be careful not to fall in the following trap. There was this crazy lady very 
fanatic of "man non-smokers". One day she found this man who was a drunkard, 
womanizer, and vey wicked. The lady asked the man "Do you smoke?". "No" said 
the man. The lady then became crazy about this man. To stretch the anolgy 
to the current situation, one may be crazy about certain yoga, but he/she 
may not be aware of the results produced by other sources. Karma yoga is 
particularly important, because karma only produces effects. If you have 
read Gita, you will immediately realize the importance of karma yoga for a 
"working person". Even the learned people such as Bhishma, Guru Drona and 
many others were regarded as evil and were destroyed with the morality of 
karma yoga. A wife serving her "sick" husband deserves the same results as 
a learned Jyana Yogi. There is no difference except the paths are different.

Karma yoga requires the "balance of mind" in performing ones prescribed
duties. It requires renunciation of resistance according to circumstances. 
"Non-resistance is the highest ideal". There is no positive or negative
"non-resistance" just like a very low frequency and very high frequency
sounds are not audible. Under certain circumstances "non-resistance" becomes
a sin and in others does not produce any effects. For example, "non-resistance"
by the weak does not produce any results. "Non-resistance" by the strong
against evil is sin. Arjuna, the stronger of all, suddenly becomes cowardice
and weak by refusing to resist due to loosing the balance of his mind.

The rationale behind karma yoga is that every action produces effect or
karma-phala which brings pleasure or pain depending upon the result. This
pleasure or pain disturbs the control of our mind bringing further desires. 
This in turn means that we are slave of the results and we do not act 
freely and fiercely which is a sign of weakness and cause of all miseries. 
Now apply the reverse logic. If we want balance of our mind, we should act 
equally under all circumstances regardless of the results of any action. 
Work for the sake of work is the formula. Motivation should be the control 
of ones mind rather than the results. Under such circumstances, karma becomes 
baren and does not produce karma-phala that will disturb the balance of 
our mind. The work then becomes worship and meditation. The same karma 
which brings a person to the level of brutes will uplift the person to 
the level of a deity.

Karma yoga as other yogas is very hard to do.

- Virendra