Conference hydra::dejavu

    My fiance works 3rd shift and isn't home .... maybe it's feeding off of
    me or I'm just overreacting to being alone.  I've lived alone, w/o a 
    roommate and never had this problem before.
    
    Sorry for the misspells .... I wanted to hurry and put it in before I
    lost my nerve.
    
    
    /gail

    Without a thorough investigation there is little anyone can say about
    the cause of these incidents.  But what can be said is, I think,
    important...

    1 -- There may or may not be natural explanations for these incidents
	 but it is very unlikely that the explanation is that you are
	 "loosing your mind."  Perfectly sane people have had similar
	 experiences, what you describe is not very much like what people
	 who are "loosing their minds" generally describe, and your
	 fiance is sharing the experiences.

    2 -- Whatever hauntings are, it is very, very rare for there to be
	 any evidence of true malevolence.  Ghosts intent on evil are
	 mostly found in fiction (including fiction masquerading as fact
	 such as "The Amityville Horror") and in folktales.  Real hauntings
	 seem to at most show a certain amount of mischief -- and even
	 that is a matter of interpretation.  Nothing you have reported
	 shows any evidence of evil intent, here.  I know its easy for
	 me to say, but your fear is the fear of the unknown, not of any
	 demonstrable threat.  Put your fear aside and you are left with
	 a rather interesting annoyance.

				    Topher

Topher is exactly right.  There is nothing to be afraid of.  You don't sound 
like someone who has flipped out.  And whatever is causing this, it can NOT
hurt you.  The thing that can harm you most is your fear.  That's not to say 
you're being a sissy or whatever for being afraid!  Fear of the unknown is 
perfectly natural, especially under the circumstances you describe.  
So:  take a deep breath.  If you know relaxation exercises/meditations, do them.
If not, contact me via mail.  

In addition to natural phenomena (house settling or whatever), there are a 
couple of other possibilities:  (1) the "spirit" of someone is actually there,
or (2) the imprint from another time is still there - sort of like a multi-
dimensional photograph, that can include sounds, smells, etc.  No matter what
the cause, none of it can hurt you.  The thing to do is to find out what it is 
and take care of it.  This is something I have experience with.  If you want,
contact me at:

SOKO::ZICKEFOOSE

    You may want to consider seeing a competent trance channel or spirit
    medium to find out who this spirit is, what it wants/doesn't want, and,
    through the channel, make "friends" with it and send it messages.  You
    might even try talking to he/she/it on your own, telling it you want to
    make friends or whatever it is you want to communicate.  Even sending
    it loving thoughts and images of light might help.
    
    I agree wholeheartedly with .2 and .3 ... It cannot hurt you; however
    you might get yourself in the position of hurting yourself if you
    succumb to your fears.
    
    Good luck,
    Paul
     

Although I would for the most part agree with Paul, I'd be very cautious about
getting in contact with it yourself.  By all means send it light and wish it
well.  But I don't think you should open yourself up to it by asking it questions
and the like - send, but don't receive.  Leave that to someone who knows how
to do it safely.  There isn't anything to fear, ultimately, but it could get
uncomfortable if you open yourself up to it.

z

    Hi 
         I am the fiance that lives in the same apt with gail..  The
    day before yesterday I had ran into my next door neighbor and we
    started talking about the previous tenants that had lived there
    before and we had talked about this one elderly woman that used
    too live there (My neighbor is also in her late 70,s) Well one 
    morning about a year and a half ago (according to the story) my
    neighbor didn;t here the water running or any sounds from the tv
    set You see when the fauscet in the kitchen when turned on the pipes
    rattle when you shut the faucet off..  Well my neighbor then took
    a walk over there and rang the bell on the door which usually she
    heard still with no answer.. She then went and took a ride to get
    one the womans neices who had a key.. well they had found her in
    bed dead she had passed away in her sleep during the night...I have
    if by some chance it could be her I am not too sure... My other
    question is are spirits more active during the night time hours
    instead of the day???  I was really not too much of a beliver of
    this but I don;t know now...Hope this helps a little more on our
    problem
    
                                 Thanks All
    
                                                Ted

    Well, it looks a stho' I'm getting some help all around and I really do
    appreciate it all!!!  Thank you .... I was told my Topher, via
    telephone, that it might be a good idea not to contact *it* but to
    voice my oppostion to *it's* disturbing my sleep and my daily way of
    life - only to do so when something occurs.  Last night I was
    fortunate; nothing out of the ordinary happened.  I still felt
    *something* but I refused to give in!  I'm hoping that Sunday night's
    talk did something but it's too soon to tell.  I spoke to *it* (*it*
    since I have no idea what else to call this presence/being) after being
    bothered for some time so I let *it* have it but not by talking
    vocally.  I did this in my head - sort of, not yelling, but raising
    my voice a bit.  I made it clear that I was putting up with anymore of
    *it's* games and to go to bed!!  We'll see ...!
    
    I'm printing all of the responses and would like to contact some of you 
    via mail.  I'm not sure if *it's* gone now or what ... I do know that 
    Ted has not had the experience since he works 3rd shift and I work
    during the day.  It doesn't happen everyday .... some days more than
    others and then other times there's nothing.  
    
    
    
    Thanks a great deal and I'll make sure to keep you in touch!
    
    
    /gail

  re .-1, yes, very good idea! Many microcassette recorders have this
  feature (automatic voice actuation). You could probably borrow one
  from a friend or even from work. It will be really exciting if
  anything gets recorded. Or, it might scare away the "problem".

  By the way, you may also have mice or squirrels in addition to, or
  instead of, "other things". You'd be amazed what horrifying noises
  rodents can make. A trap would be a useful and inexpensive experiment
  (Hav-a-hart if you don't want to hurt any little beasties). In fact,
  just leave a few crumbs of cheese out and see what happens. If they're
  still there in the morning (after another noisy night), then you may
  have something more interesting.

    I don't have mice, nor squirrels and I haven't lost *it* yet!
    
    
    I do have a being or presence, whatever it is you'd care to call it,
    who's name is Celia.  Lennice, Topher and Lennice's friend (sorry 
    Lennice but I forgot her name) came over last night and helped Celia
    find her way to a better existance.  Lennice will be posting the
    experience in this file later today.
    
    
    /gail

>    I don't have mice, nor squirrels

  Well that's certainly good news! Rodents are probably more of a
  nuisance and harder to persuade to leave!

    I seem to have alot of answered questions this morning for Lennice.
    Celia's life, apparently, went to pot when her husband died.  Her
    mother was some sort of battle ax and the house was built for her.
    She lived there for a very short period of time and, when she died,
    she came back to the house that she never really got the chance to
    live in.
    
    That's it for the wide angle - I'll let Lennice do the rest.
    
    
    /gail

I am beyond exhaustion, so no detailed story today, sorry.  Also, I still feel
very skittish about posting here.  I need time to think about what to say.
It was very interesting.  (now there's an understatement!)  It was different 
from anything I've ever done before, but in some basic ways the same.  Topher 
was terrific!  What a guy.  Also took along my friend Peggy who is a shrink 
and a shaman - how's that for a combination?  We had all the bases covered, 
in case it turned out that Gail was nuts after all. ;-)   

I wouldn't say her life went to pot when her husband died.  Basically Celia 
was never really together, even when alive.  It was a lot like talking to 
someone who is mentally ill.  She was very confused and very sad and lonely.  
When she died she came to the house that they never really got to live in, to 
look for her husband, and because she thought he would look for her there.
       

to .14:

Gail forwarded me your note because she really shouldn't be talking to Celia.  
please read previous notes.  when i have time, i'll try to answer your 
questions.  briefly, food etc. are totally irrelevant.  can somebody (topher?)
explain the difference between energy as Marcos is thinking of it and energy
as it applies here?  next, she sees herself as a she because that's what she 
was while she was in form - she's confused.  at some point I'll reply in 
detail to this last - what happens to "personality" is a fairly interesing
topic.

    Lennice has asked me to describe what occurred.

    The evening of July 6 we went to Gail's home.  After looking around,
    we settled down to business.  We quickly came into contact with a
    personality.  The personality was incoherent and clearly rather
    dysfunctional (at least by "living" standards) but with careful
    questioning we got "her" story, at least as she perceived it.

    Celia was a young Victorian woman with a domineering mother (who was
    described, at one point, rather vividly as a "battleaxe").  She had
    what she considered to be a disfiguring mole, which she felt made her
    homely.  She believed that no one (certainly not her mother) could ever
    love her.  Somehow, however, she met who we will call "Francis" (this
    name was used but with little confidence -- it may have been Francis or
    may have been a name like Francis).  Francis, against all of Celia's
    expectations for her life, loved her.  They were to be wed (or had been
    wed, Celia seemed to have trouble distinguishing what she had pictured
    in her future from what had actually occurred).  Francis's uncle, who
    stood somehow in the role of his father, arranged to have a house built
    for the couple's home.  Celia made many plans for her new life away
    from her domineering mother.  She planned a garden -- one where she
    could choose the flowers for herself rather than her mother making all
    the decisions.  It is unclear whether or not Celia and Francis ever
    actually moved into the house, but before there was time for Celia to
    plant her garden tragedy struck.

    Francis went away, traveling by train, and while on his trip he had an
    accident.  He died in the hospital from something like pneumonia. 
    Everyone apparently agreed -- including Celia -- that she was incapable
    of living on her own so she moved back with the Battleaxe.  She lived
    into her 60s but she never got away from the control of her mother --
    who outlived her.

    When Celia died, she felt that she had to find Francis -- the only one
    who had ever made her feel loved.  She felt that Francis would expect
    to find her at "their" house, and so she returned there.  And waited
    for him there, finding some comfort in the memory of love.

    We then convinced Celia that she only could find a weak echo of love
    here, but that true and lasting love could be found "beyond the light".
    Afterwards, the general opinion was that there was that the apartment
    felt different -- empty, like the silence after a noise has ceased that
    you were only partially aware of.  I noticed that there was a distinct
    shift in the way people acted -- calmer.  There have been no more
    significant "manifestations" since.

    Was this story "real" or was it a fantasy of Celia's dysfunctional
    personality?  At this point, I have no way of knowing.  Only historical
    research, now underway, can tell us.  It may be partially true
    ("veridical" in parapsychological jargon) and partially fantasy.

    There was one rather interesting event:

    Lennice expressed doubt about the story and even of Celia's reality at
    one point, because the story was so much like what one might expect to
    read in a Gothic romance.  Celia expressed great upset at this. Later I
    asked if she would like to allay our doubts and provide us evidence of
    her reality.  She said that she would like to, and asked me if I wanted
    her to bang a door.  I replied "If you wish." and immediately, as if in
    verbal answer, there were three loud, distinct knocks, sounding
    something like a spring-hinged screen door bouncing against the door
    frame.  No one was in the apartment.

    With Gail's help I later identified the sound as identical to, and
    coming from the same part of the house as the sound produced by a
    "water hammer" in Gail's pipes when she ran her water.  According to
    Gail, no other apartment's pipes made that distinctive sound, it
    occurred in her experience only when her water was run, there was no
    significant wind outside to produce a pressure differential to push the
    hammer, I could hear no water flowing, could see into the kitchen and
    it is unlikely that anyone could have gotten into the bathroom without
    me being aware of it.  Someone might have produced the effect from the
    basement but I consider that possibility remote.

    We did get the promised "bangs" therefore, right on cue, though they
    were not produced by a door.  It is unclear what might have caused
    them.  Someone who firmly disbelieves in the possibility of such
    phenomena can certainly dismiss this incident as coincidence or even as
    fairly elaborate fraud.  But I would have to conclude that "if such
    phenomena exist, then this was very probably an example of it".

			    Topher

    I am new to this notesfile and am - at this point - picking and
    choosing the notes that are of great interest to me.
    
    I have a couple of questions that perhaps you can answer for me:
    
    1.  When you and Lennice went to Gail's home - how did you 'talk'
        to Celia?  I mean - did you and Lennice have to go into a 
        trance (in order to contact the medium) - was the room dark -
        were you and Lennice alone in the room with Celia or were Gail and
        her husband with you - could Gail and her husband hear what you 
        heard (i.e. the voice of Celia and the information she gave you)?
    
    2.  When you document information - such as the history of the
        house - name of past occupants - names in the community -
        do you then 'do something' with that information?  Is there a
        journal or something of that nature that you enter this
        information?
    
    
    I am really interested and I feel a bit 'naive' about some of the
    questions I have asked, but your description of that evening was very
    easy to 'read' and understand and these are questions I have always
    wanted answered.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Marilyn
    

RE: .17 (Marilyn)

    Marilyn, your questions are good ones and completely reasonable. I
    really hate to do this, but I'm going to have to say that there are
    reasons that I cannot answer your questions, at least those listed
    under 1.  The reasons are quite mundane and are not the least bit
    spooky, exciting or even terribly interesting, but for reasons of
    confidentiality, I simply cannot go into any more detail here about the
    process by which this investigation was conducted.  I'm truly sorry
    about this, and I know that it can only further raise your curiosity.

    As for your second group of questions: there are places where this
    could be published -- notably the Journal of the Society for Psychical
    Research.  More importantly, there are places where a factual report
    can be filed so that it is available to researchers.  Unless those
    more experienced in this aspect of the field convince me that this
    incident was more unique than I now believe it to be, I don't see much
    to be gained by publication.  It is valuable only if something new
    can be learned from it.

    I personally learned a lot, but it is not the kind of thing that can be
    communicated in a written report.  I'm not talking about anything
    metaphysical here: experience of even purely physical events teaches
    things that reading about it doesn't -- that's why science classes
    include "labs".

    However, if some communicatable lesson can be found in this, either by
    itself or in combination with other incidents, then I will quite
    anxious to publish it, and will have a number of options available as
    to where.  The Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, The
    Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research, possibly the
    Journal of Parapsychology (though this is not their usual type of
    thing), and various monograph series comes to mind.

					Topher

    Topher:
    
    Yes, you did raise my level of curiousity (smile) but I understand,
    and respect, your reasons for not answering my questions.
    
    To make a long story short...my daughter works in a Retirement Home
    that is over 100 years old.  She has come home many a morning (after
    working the 11-7 shift) with stories of 'happenings'.  I don't have 
    any answers for her - other than IF there is a spirit(s) in the house 
    - it cannot hurt her.  She got some comfort from that.
    
    She saw a psychic last week - tape recorded the session and was told
    (we already knew) that she had strong ESP powers.
    
    Perhaps you could suggest some reading material that is informative
    that either she or I could purchase.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Marilyn
    

    Months later and still curious...
    
    Gail or Ted how are things?
    
    Lennice, could you enter that informatioin you refered to in your reply 
    1297.15 about "What happen's to `personality' is a fairly interesting 
    topic."
    
    S. Michelle

    
    Hi there,
    
    Lennice no longer works for Digital, just so you know.
    
    Carole

    HI THERE....
    
                .19 In answer to your question on how Gail and I are doing 
    we are doing great, but sad to say we moved out of the house on Main 
    Street due to the Price of the Apartment >495.00< a month without
    utilities and with one paycheck it was getting hard to live a normal 
    life.
    
                After Lennice did the job of getting rid of Celia nothing 
    ever happened again after that, no more edgy nerves and no more cat's 
    standing on edge, in fact Gail and I talk about every once and a while
    but nothing ever happened from that night on the 6th of July 90 to the 
    end of August of 91 To be honest with you it was a Memorable experience
    one that I will never forget... 
    
    
    
    
                                     Ted

    
    
    That's GREAT! :^)
    
    Thanks!
    Michelle