Conference hydra::dejavu

    Don't really know if this has anything to do with Dejavu, but I seem to
    always have a headache during a full moon and have since I was in high
    school.  It's weird.
    
    Virginia

    One DIS manager I know told me that he always schedules extra people
    during full moon times.  Apparently the systems feel the effects too.
    
    Mary

    My son was two weeks early, born on a full moon and the nurse's said
    its always busy for them in delivery then. 
    

	I guess there have been studies done on the full moon affect
    	(or is that 'e'ffect).  The whole mystic (I want to say
      	"mis - teek") about the moon in interesting.
    
      	It is such an integral part of pagan ritual and practice.  For
        instance, I was reading recently that magic during the waxing
    	moon is a good idea...etc. (I am no expert in magic and related
    	things...), but it was just a thought.
    
    	There is also a certain elegance and beauty in the full moon	
    	reflecting of the snow, the harvest moon rise in October.
    
    	jp
    	

        
    Re.0 (Murray)
    
    Hi Deb,
    
    I was talking with a good friend who is into esoteric studies about
    this, and he said that it wasn't the physical full moon which affects
    us so much that it is like a lighthouse beacon - *representative* of 
    a time in the physical world when we are more receptive to the 
    influence of our souls and energy amplification.  So the scientists 
    are correct - the physical moon in and of itself does not have a 
    physical effect on us.
    
    Also it is a time of energy amplification.  This means that if you are
    a positive person, your positivity (?) is heightened, just as negative
    people's energy is also heightened.  So if you get trapped in the
    belief that only negative things happen during the full moon, then it
    essentially becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and a downward spiral.
    
    So be sure to send positive thoughts into the Universe, especially during 
    that time!
    
    Cindy

    Hi Cindy,
    
    Thanks for your interesting response.  Tomorrow is a full moon and
    perhaps we can observe the surrondings around us.  A friend of mine
    swares by cutting her hair on the full moon or a few days before
    saying that it makes her hair grow twice as fast.  Her advise is
    not to cut your hair after a full moon because it stunts the growth.
    She said that this advise was given to her by a hairdresser about
    10 years ago and it's worked for her.  I'm willing to give it a
    try so I scheduled my haircut appt. for tomorrow.  I am also going
    to do some Tarot readings for myself tomorrow, too.
    
    Happy FULL MOON!
    
    Deb
    
    
    

>	A friend of mine
>    swares by cutting her hair on the full moon or a few days before
>    saying that it makes her hair grow twice as fast.  
    
    
    Deb, are you sure you got this right?  My Polish grandmother used 
	to say that the New Moon was the time to do things to promote
	growth, plant crops, cut hair, etc.  I can't speak for the
	hair cuts, but the Old Farmers Almanac gives dates to plant 
	crops, and often the best times are on or after new moons.

    New Moons, afterall, do signify a new beginning.


    Bob

    Hi Bob,
    
    I'm not sure I'm right but that's what my friend said.  You jogged
    my memory though about the new moon. I think your grandmother is
    right because I think I can remember reading many years ago in a
    psychic book about the new moon and hair.  
    
    Well I'll let you know if the hair growth is more around a full
    moon because I just got mine cut.
    
    Deb
    

    In the book "Black Elk Speaks", there is the following reference
    to the power of the moon.
    
    Black Elk was describing a dance to be held in the camp of Crazy
    Horse, prior to battle with the Wasichus (white men).  The dance
    was to purify and give power and endurance to the warriors.  It
    was held in the Moon of Fatness, because that is the time when the
    sun is highest and the growing power of the world is strongest.
    
    That was their belief - seemed to pertain.
    
    
    tj
    

    Hi,
    I know that two days before and two days after a full moon my son has
    the worst nights sleep.  It is the only time he ever wakes up in the 
    middle of the night..
    
                                  cas...
    

  I've noticed (or is it just imagination?) that drivers appear to be
  more aggressive in the 2 or 3 days following the full moon.

  My wife is very practical, and doesn't tend to pay much attention to
  paranormal stuff, but when she worked with retarded, autistic and
  emotionally disturbed children, she said that they acted up quite
  regularly around the full moon, and these kids didn't know what day of
  the week it was. 

  Since the moon's gravity is capable of pushing the entire water mass
  of the planet around, there's no requirement to look for a
  supernatural explanation of the effect of the full moon. It might be
  easily explained (though hasn't been, yet) by boring old science.

    I'm afraid that our "boring old science" can't quite explain this
    effect yet, Mike.  The Moon's gravitational effect is at it's peak
    when the Moon is the *closest* to the earth (as evidenced by the
    highest tides, etc.) not at the *full* moon.  The moon's close/far
    elliptical cycles (and thus low/high tides) are not synchronized with
    the moon's new/full cycles.
    
    The moon and sun are lined up at a new moon and on opposite sides of
    the earth at a full moon.  While this can enhance or deplete the moon's
    close/far tidal effects, the moon's distance from the earth is still
    the primary tidal height indicator.
    
    If our "boring old science" could propose any full moon effects they
    would presumably have to be based upon the amount of light reflected
    off of the moon to the earth.  It is unclear to me how this would be
    connected to the observed full moon effects, however, since daylight
    would presumably have many more of the same wavelengths of light that
    would be proposed to cause the moon's reflective effect ... and it
    would presumably then not affect those who stay locked-up inside.
    
    Thus we have seemingly ruled out both gravitational and electro-magnetic
    explanations of full moon effects.
    
    Now if we start considering the Moon to reflect some form of energy
    other than that occurring within the standard electro-magnetic spectrum,
    and that the energy is in some way modified upon reflection off of the
    moon, then there might be the possibility of a 'scientific' explanation ...
    but if we are waiting for science to find another form of energy then
    we will probably be waiting for quite some time.
    
    However, if we expand our term 'science' beyond technical observation
    to include the scientific method as applied to behavior observation
    then it could be possible for science to prove that there ARE specific
    effects, even before science is able to identify what force may be causing
    the effects.
    
    Of course, these studies would rattle the cages of 'boring old' scientists,
    and proposed to investigate this are probably destined for ridicule
    and/or lack of funding.  THAT is how "boring old science" maintains its
    status quo.  I have heard of some studies which have identified
    significant correlations between hospital entries and accident reports
    to the Full Moon period, yet the studies have not had an impact yet ...
    possibly because status quo scientists cannot envision an 'acceptable'
    cause.
    
    Maybe boring old science will be forced to accept that there may
    be particular effects for which no cause has yet been identified.
    It is not 'science' which objects to this but rather 'scientists'.
    
    						Todd

RE: .12 (Todd)
    
    Actually Todd, you are both right and wrong:
    
    > The moon and sun are lined up at a new moon and on opposite sides of
    > the earth at full moon.  While this can enhance or deplete the moon's
    > close/far tidal effects, the moon's distance from the earth is still
    > the primary tidal height indicator.
    
    The primary determinant of the effect of the *lunar* tide is
    exclusively the distance of the moon from the Earth.  The sun, however,
    contributes a significant tide of its own (1/3'rd the moons is the
    figure which comes to mind), and so the primary determinant of the
    *total* tide is the alignment of the sun and the moon.
    
    Tidal force is not the result of the direct pull of gravity, but
    something a little bit more complex.  Counterintuitively there are
    *two* lunar high tides each day at any given location, one when the
    moon is overhead the other when the moon is directly "underfoot".  The
    same applies, of course to the sun, whose tide we don't really notice
    except as it modifies the height of the moon's.
    
    So each day we have two high tides (when the moon is underfoot and when
    it is overhead).  Each month we have two peak high tides (when the
    moon is lined up with the sun -- new and full).  And once a year we
    have two extra large peak high tides (when new moon occurs at perigee
    and roughly 6 months later when full moon occurs at perigee).
    
    All this ignores local resonances which can change this pattern
    radically at a particular location, part or all of the time.  The above
    is a "typical" pattern.
    
    The wrong assumption in the note you were responding to was essentially
    "the tidal force must be large to be able to move the whole ocean, so
    it must have the potential to have considerable effect on the human
    body".  The opposite is true.  The tides apply a very, very small
    effect on each cubic inch of the ocean, which adds up to a considerable
    movement of the whole (but only in human terms -- we are talking about
    feet of rise -- amplified horizontally by shallow sloped shore --
    against miles of ocean).  Human beings contain relatively few cubic
    centimeters of matter and so the total tidal force acting directly on
    the human body is very small.
    
    That doesn't mean that the human body couldn't have evolved to detect
    the tidal force if there was a good reason for it.  Some tidal pool
    creatures like crabs do seem to have this ability (somehow).  There
    doesn't seem to be any good reason to evolve (or retain) such an
    ability however (but maybe science is just lacking the imagination
    or the knowledge to needed to think of that reason).
    
    Clearly, the full moon's light *does* have an effect on human beings:
    I go outside and see the full moon and admire it, and, for whatever
    reason, many societies have evolved rituals which are timed to the
    moon's cycles -- and these quite radical effects *are due* to the
    electromagnetic radiation (within the optical range) of the moon.
    
    There is a simple, but possibly important difference, between the
    moon's light and the much stronger light of the sun: the moons light
    occurs *at night*.  Given what has recently been learned about
    circadian (daily) body cycles and photic entrainment of same, relatively
    bright light at night from the full moon could have significant effects
    on those cycles and thus on behavior -- *under relatively natural
    conditions*, i.e., little or no artificial light.  Perhaps people
    in institutions -- with early lights out -- are particularly
    influenced.
    
    A source of possible influence you missed is magnetic: the moon might
    influence the Earth's magnetic field in various ways and thus influence
    us -- there is ever increasing evidence that we are influenced by magnetic
    fields.
    
    The reason that those studies you mention haven't been followed up very
    much is that they are inconsitant:  when in the lunar cycle the peak
    occurs (if it occurs) seems to depend on the city and even on the
    particular instituion.  The influence of self-fulfilling prophecy has
    to be reckoned with -- if the care-givers in an instituion, for
    example, *expect* problems, they will probably get them.
    
    					Topher

RE: .13 (me)
    
    Just did a quick calculation, and if I didn't make a mistake, the
    affect of the sun is to cause a 3:1 difference in the heights of
    the high-tide (neglecting differences due to differing distance
    of the mean) while the perigee high-tide is about 3:2 over the 
    apogee high-tide (neglecting differences due to solar tides).  That
    is, the solar alignment of the moon is about twice as important as
    the current orbital distance of the moon from the earth.
    
    						Topher

  Topher,

  I am familiar with the bidirectional watery 'bulge' which results in
 two high tides per day, however I had not realized that the peak high tides
 are associated with the new and full moon instead of the moon's closest
 approach to earth (orbital apogee).

  It is clear that the MAXIMAL tides occur when both of these factors coincide,
 but I have considered the magnitude of the gravitational difference between
 moon apogee/perigee to outweigh the tidal effects of the Sun.  Of course, if
 as you say there are two 'highest' tides per month which coincide with
 New/Full moons then you are obviously right.  The apogee would suggest a
 single 'highest' tide every month or so.  Your comments on the magnitude of
 the gravitational tidal effects are also informative.

  On another point, differentiating the Moon light from Sun light due to its
 position in our circadian cycle implies that the weather (ie. clouds) would
 be able to obliterate the effects of the Full moon.  While the circadian
 connection seems worth pursuing (possibly due to an energy other than 'light'),
 the resulting superceding effect of clouds and the requirement for visual
 contact with the moonlight doesn't seem consistent with the full moon effects
 which I have observed ... but I suppose that explanation may satisfy others.

  Also, the self-fulfilling prophesy argument (people act differently because
 they know it is a full moon and that they are supposed to act wierd) seems to
 be a skeptics dream.  This argument is too easy for a skeptic to propose, and
 has been too often in a parapsychology context to dismiss the findings of
 studies.  According to this, there would apparently be absolutely no way to
 demonstrate a Full Moon effect based upon the incredible mass of objective
 records of hospitals, insurance companies, police departments, etc. because
 everyone in the world may have been acting differently because they knew it
 was a full moon.  This seems suspiciously like a case of science disallowing
 objective evidence out-of-hand instead of allowing it while requiring further
 study to determine more specific causality.

  Your comments on the potential influence of magnetic field effects are
 interesting ... but must a cause be determined before the effect can
 be characterized?  If these admittedly rudimentary studies which I have
 alluded to are insufficient to unambiguously demonstrate a Full Moon
 effect without ruling out self-fulfilling prophesy etc., then I am sure
 that you could devise one which would ;-}.

  Of course, it probably wouldn't be funded...

						Todd

    Todd,
    
    It has been claimed, I cannot say how accurately, that the studies,
    informal and formal, have been very much less consistant than has been
    represented elsewhere.
    
    An extended period of cloud-cover (not just on the night of the full
    moon but over some number of days before the full moon) might well
    disrupt any quite real effects of the full moon, and no one would
    notice much, I suspect.  Remember, most people are aware that it is
    full moon only when they happen to see it, so if they don't see it they
    won't be surprised that it is a somewhat quiet "full-moon". 
    Differences such as this and the general exposure to the moon's light
    might very well explain the inconsitencies claimed by skeptics in the
    studies which are supposed to support this idea.
    
    Self-fulfilling prophecy can operate in a number of ways.  I suggested
    one (care-givers, ready for trouble, cause it).  You suggest another
    (people expect that they will act crazy and do so).  Another is
    observational: people expect to observe crazy behavior at the full moon
    and therefore interpret behavior as crazyness that they would interpret
    another time as simply "normal abnormallity".  A similar mode of
    operation is to notice peaks of activity any time during the full moon
    period (several days) as significant (lunacy) while similar peaks
    at other times of month are not remembered especially.
    
    Self-fulfilling prophecy has been demonstrated in all these forms in
    many ways in many contexts: people's perceptions, memories and behavior
    are all strongly influenced by expectations.  Parapsychological
    experiments have even shown that it is unnecessary for people to even
    have any conventional means of knowing about the expectation.  The
    skeptic who claims that self-fulfilling prophecy is responsible for
    some phenomena (lunar influences or parapsychological) is generally
    going beyond the available evidence.  The skeptic who, however,
    requires that you reasonably demonstrate that the well-established
    phenomenon of self-fulfilling prophecy is not responsible for effects
    which you (or I) claim are due to unknown principles is being perfectly
    reasonable.  Parapsychology has done this, I don't know about claims
    of lunar influence.
    
    Off hand I don't know how to demonstrate that self-fulfilling prophecy
    is responsible for the effects that are found.  If you come up with
    one, you might be able to get it funded by presenting the purpose of
    the experiment as attempting to prove that self-fulfilling prophecy
    *is* responsible. :-)
    
    					Topher

....until you meet Topher. :-)

Arie

    
    ...and we could have a situation where bits and pieces of all the
    possibilities work together to contribute to the "effect".  
    
    If it were initially gravitational, electromagnetic, magnetic, or
    related to some experiment done by aliens with Tesla coils from
    Hell 2 billion years ago, it could then trigger the self-fulfilling
    prophecy mechanism which then might be propagated through ancient
    body language, subtle facial movement, and bodily magnetic fields
    to others around us thereby awakening near-genetic memory of all
    the old rituals.....:-)  
    
    
    It could get messy! 
    
    guy
    

    Visitors from Earth
    
    You know, there is one thing missing from this whole discussion and it
    just dawned on me during the first 'boring science' note (thanks - I 
    enjoyed that one!)
    
    We Earth residents have had several fellows actually visit and set foot 
    on the moon.  Anybody know if they experienced anything particularly out 
    of the ordinary while they were there?  If the moon does have some kind 
    of an effect on humans, it would seem that they might have experienced 
    something directly.
    
    Jim Irwin was converted to Christianity and turned to missionary/
    witnessing-type work and Ed Mitchell was converted to mysticism and
    went on to found the Noetic Institute, but having read their stories, 
    I don't think this is quite the same thing.  (;^)
    
    Cindy

Cindy,

One thing I remember hearing about the men who went to the moon is that they
all soon after suffered from severe depression. It seems that the feat they
achieved by actually walking on the moon marked a highpoint in their lives
they could never hope to achieve again. Having experienced depression, I can
see where they might have spiritual or psychic revelations as they recover.

Pete

    	If I recall correctly, on one mission they spotted a "bogie" and
    NASA did a quick coverup, not to attract attention!
    
    Dan

    RE: THE FULL MOON:
    
    All I know is that it makes me "HOWL" consistently!!!!!!!!  I can be
    out (weekend or weekday) and just be all fired up and not know why and
    I'll look out at the moon and sure enough, it is always full.  My
    friends won't let me go dancing on the weekends if it is a full moon. 
    It really makes me KRAZY.  I love the full moon, I feel I am at my
    best.  Like very creative and I ponder on subjects in greater detail
    which is quite a bit because I am a Libra and ponder anyway.  I don't
    have any scientific explanations for my actions just personal
    experiences.  Thought I would add a quit note.
    
    Love to all,
    
    Suzie
    

    ok,ok,ok, I meant a quick note.
    
    which is getting longer all the time
    
    peace,
    suz

    For those who may never have had the engaging opportunity to hear what
    a relatively die-hard 'skeptic' sounds like in full sarcasm mode,
    here's a tantalizing sample ...  This might be used as a reference
    to put certain elements of 'scientific rigor' into perspective ...
    I scrounged this from the usenet, credits at the end.  Submitted
    FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY ... :-)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
>I would like to hear some thoughts about the supposed "Full Moon Effect"
>that we sometimes hear about.
 
Perhaps the only major Full-Moon-Effect I've encountered is a 
mysterious reduction in the probability that I'll stub my toe at night
when venturing outside in my bare feet to throw the trash out.
More mysteriously, the magnitude of this effect appears to be
inversely proportional to the density of cloud cover.  
 
These observations lead me to conclude that a new paradigm which
transcends even the newly-archaic holistic world-view, might be required
to embrace the implications of my discovery (The traditional "Western"
reductionist, life-hating approach to studying physical phenomena is
completely refuted by this work, incidently).
 
My irrefutable hypothesis is that some sort of energy-manna-guiding
force emminates from the moon's surface only at the time when both
edges of the moon's disk are illuminated by the sun's radiation.
Although evidence is scant (but will be forthcoming if I remain uncensored
by the prevailing CULTURAL ELITISTS, who seek to retain their dwindling
domination over an unsuspecting public), I am absolutely convinced that
the transverse solar neutrino flux sets up a harmonic standing-wave
from each edge of the moon's disk.  At the focus of this "yin/yang"
wave (ie. the earth surface), special transcendental perturbations
split open the fabric of space-time (which I will henceforth refer
to as "SPAM" for SPAce-tiMe).  The resulting disembowelment of SPAM
draws the attention of the UNIVERSE-MIND (the core consciousness of
the universe formed as the by-product of non-linear, non-local,
interactive quantum potentials), which then permits sentient beings
to tap into its pan-galactic database (better than a Rolodex(tm)).
As a result of this temporary sensory enhancement, I am better able to
avoid obstacles in my path.
 
Clouds, or rather, the water molecules within them act to diffract
the energy, changing the effective focal-length of the beam.
Admittedly, further work is required to assess the interaction.
 
Two additional lines of evidence support this claim.
1)  This phenomena cannot be attributed to standard electromagnetic
    explanations because wearing a wire-mesh faraday cage over my
    head did not diminish the effect.  As expected from the 
    cloud diffraction model, inserting my head into balloon full
    of water (No easy task!) completely eliminated the full-moon
    effect.  In fact, my toes were stubbed multiple times before
    I passed out.
 
2)  A channeler linked to the spirit of the late Dr. Richard
    Feynmann knocked once on the table while conferencing with the
    world-renowned expert in quantum physics.  This signified that
    the late physist's spirit agreed with me.
 
Hope this helps.

Article: 33324
Path: pa.dec.com!decwrl!ames!agate!mendel.berkeley.edu!timi
From: [email protected] ( Tim Ikeda)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Effects of the Full Moon
Date: 28 Oct 1992 00:01:51 GMT
Organization: anonymous
Lines: 65
Sender: I don't want this coming back to me.
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mendel.berkeley.edu

(In a later reply, I lost the headers for this one ...)

>The esteemed author forgot to mention
>(1) chaos theory;
>(2) the fractal nature of the neutrino resonance effect;
>(3) Sheldrake's morphogenetic fields;
>(3) Catastrophe theory (surely the effect is heightened at 
>    the cusps of Thom's catastrophes in the focal interference plane
>(4) the influence of this resonance on the left brain /right brain
>    communication pattern;
>(5) Jaynes' theory of the bicameral mind, which implies that on the
>    proper occasion our thoughts will seem to be the Moon Goddess 
>    (or the 666 Proctor and Gamble Moon Man!) speaking to us.
>(6) UFO-hallucinations generation force fields from the fifth
>    dimension;
>(7) the universal quantum gravity theory that will relieve all
>    our troubles (using Penrose, see brain chapter);
>(8) the Bell inequalities and the EPR paradox.