Conference hydra::dejavu

    Come on George what do you mean the Big boys? Give us a few examples to
    get us started!!
    

    Please wait until tomorrow.
    
    It's not the sort of stuff that I know off the top of my head.
    
    					George.
    
    PS As you were the first to reply to the note you must have some
    interest in the subject. Have you any opinions, experiences, etc to
    tell us all ????
    

    "Demons" fall under a lot of categories.
    
    Some classify any transcorporeal entity as a demon; others don't.
    
    In the Western sense, "demons" generally are synonymour with "devils."
    
    Such beings as elementals, in this scheme, don't fall into the demonic
    category, though incubi and succubi do.
    
    Medieval students of demonology even wrote books on them; some
    ceremonial magicians try to use demons as instruments of achieving
    magical ends.  A number of the old spell books (grimoires) are
    primarily instruction manuuals on how to evoke demons, particularly
    those with the powers the magician desires.
    
    Some demonic spirits have rather malevolent powers: Surgat can open
    all locks, Khil can cause destructive earthquakes, and Guland can
    cause illnesses of any variety.
    
    The legend of Dr. Faust (Marlowe's play) looks at one aspect of
    this.
    
    In my personal opinion, demons are best left alone: they don't perform
    their services without extracting a price.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    There is a topic in AITG::Religion on this subject. Try topic 239.
    Read especially reply .14 by Ann Broomhead.
    
    Hit KP7.

    
    And there are our private demons which we all wrestle with from time
    to time.
    
    Cindy

    If I might interject some speculation...
    
    Ok, thanx. I knew you'd understand. B^)
    
    I don't see how anything like a demon could really exist. BUT, I do
    perceive humans as capable of entering irrational and uncontrolled
    mind spaces. Hence the demon as daemon inhabits the body-mind. Of
    course in this model there is no real distinction between body and
    mind. They are one in the same.
    
    There is however a frightful place that exists between the so-called
    lower and upper bio-circuits that is aptly called "Chapel Perolous". (I
    give up. I can't spell peralous. B^) This mindspace is a sometimes
    frightening place of realization that we can indeed take control of the
    throttle of our lives. In realizing this responsibility we also realize
    we have no experience in doing such. Fear of the unknown is symbolized
    by fearful spiritual entities. Welcome to the Chapel. B^)
    
    

    Re .6 (Mikie?):
    
    >I don't see how anything like a demon could really exist.  ...
    
    One could make the same claim on a magnetic field.  _Using ones
    ordinary senses_, a magnetic field "doesn't exist"; it takes the
    proper detection devices (e.g., a compass, iron filings) to determine
    its presence and/or its flux shape.  
    
    The same can be true of demons.  Until fairly recently in human
    history, "energy" was mechanical; electrical was effectively unknown
    (yes, I know of the silver plating done in the Assyro-Babylonian
    crescent; however, that probably was viewed as a "trade secret"
    or even a "magical" one rather than as something purely technological);
    thus, any mechanism purely electrical in nature (say, an electric
    motor) would be nonunderstandable by the best scientists of, say,
    the Fifteenth Century.  No posit an energy state or spectrum not
    yet quantified ("ether," "akasha," "mana"), which, under appropriate
    circumstances, can form the basis of stable structures (just as
    electrons are negative electrical energy).  Demons could be formed
    out of these.
    
    There are other possibilities; however, there's no reason to write
    off demons as mere internalizations.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    It's "perilous." Peril as in "Can't I have just a *little* peril?"

    	Jon

    Reply to .7, Steve,
    
    Thanx for reminding me of my bias.
    
    I look forward to the day when we build devices to communicate with
    our discarnate shipmates. B^)

  >  Re: <<< Note 1153.8 by ERIS::CALLAS "The Torturer's Apprentice" >>>
  >                        -< No, it's too perilous. >-
  >
  >  It's "perilous." Peril as in "Can't I have just a *little* peril?"
  >
  >  	Jon
    
    One whose node is ERIS should know these thing shouldn't he? B^)
    

    re .9
    
    The devices are already there.  I just think the mute button has been
    pressed in most cases.
    
    (Muteiny on the Bounty?)
    
    Karen
         

    Reply to .11,
    
    Perhaps you'd like to share that with me.

    Morgan .12
    
    Yes, I will share that with you.  Perhaps it will be best to contact you 
    off-line so as not to dilute the demonology topic any further.
    
    Suffice to say, our own minds contain the *device* (and the mute button) 
    that enables us to communicate with our discarnate shipmates.
    
    Karen

    re .13 BERGGREN
    
    Instead of taking the subject off-line, how about opening a new note
    on the topic? I'd guess there are many who will be interested.
    
    	- Bill

    
    Karen and Mikie,
    
    I'm interested.  Please continue.
    
    Cindy

    Me too Karen, please start a new topic.

    RE .3
    
    Steve,
    	  Thanks for your opinion, one thing that interested me was that
    two of the three demons that you mentioned are included in the Grimoire
    "The constitution of Pope Honorius the great". This Grimoire
    contains, among other things, certain demons that are called on
    seperate day's of the week, in the following order (starting on monday)
    : Lucifer, Frimost, Astaroth, Silcharde, Bechard, Guland and Surgat.
    
    I was wondering where you had obtained your information ?
    
    						George.
    
    Ps  I won't be able to reply again until Monday as I'm on holiday for
    four days.
    
    

    Bill, Cindy, Morgan,
    
    Okay.  I will move to a new topic hopefully today, or at the very
    latest, Friday, due to potential scheduling conflicts.  I look forward 
    to discussing it more in depth.
    
    Kb
    

    Re .17 (George):
    
    >I was wondering where you had obtained your information ?
    
    From several Grimoires.  In point of fact, each day had both "demons"
    and angels (presumably for those doing Enochian Magic); and all
    of these involve the various "planetary" characteristics of the
    day (e.g., Monday = "moon's day"; Tuesday = "Tiw's day" [Tiw = Mars,
    more or less]).
    
    Tabularizing this:
    
    
    Day              Planet              Demon(s)          Angel(s)
    ---              ------              --------          -------
    
    Monday           Moon                Lucifer           Gabriel
                                                           Bilet
                                                           Missaln
                                                           Abuzohar
    
    
    Tuesday         Mars                Frimost            Samael
                                        Nambroth           Satael
                                                           Ababiel
    
    Wednesday       Mercury             Astaroth           Raphael
                                                           Miel
                                                           Seraphiel
    
    Thursday        Jupiter             Silcharde          Sachiel
                                                           Cassiel
                                                           Asasiel
    
    Friday          Venus               Bechard            Anael
    
    Saturday        Saturn              Guland             Cassiel
                                        Nabam              Machatan
                                                           Uriel
    
    Sunday          Sun                 Surgat             Michael
                                        Aquiel             Dardael
                                                           Hurtapal
    
    Some commentators feel the demon names are aliases.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    I believe I have encountered a demon on two or three occasions.  Prior
    to those experiences I never would have called one up, because of the
    principle of the thing.  Now I have an additional reason:  I would not
    call up a demon simply out of practical respect for a power that's
    beyond me.  Would you let a little child play in an electrical
    substation?  

    Donald Reinke

    Reply to .20, Donald,
    
    When young I stuck my finger into an electrical outlet a few times. I
    wish I coulda' seen myself. B^)

    REPLY TO 20, Donald.
    
    Could you go into more detail about the experiences that you mentioned.
    I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has actually taken
    part in or heard of any incantations, etc, etc involving Demonology.
    
    						George.

    I wish first to emphasize that I am a Christian (albeit with a large
    dose of "New Age Thinking").  I have not asked for these experiences
    consciously, and in no case have I participated in any incantations. 
    
    In only one of the three instances was there someone who had "called
    up" the spirit.  I "walked in on the party" with my son, and all I did
    was ask why the 'someone' was doing this and why he/she was dressed in
    hooded robes.  After leaving the immediate area I raised my arms in
    blessing in a conscious attempt to transmute hatred into love, as
    detailed by St. Francis in his famous prayer.
    
    In the other cases, no other human was around, and whatever they were
    appeared without invitation.  Spontaneously in each case, I asked help
    from St. Francis.  In the second case, I had been meditating for
    several nights on a rock in back of my house, and it just appeared on
    my left.  In the third case, I was "cleaning out" some bad vibes in the
    woods north of my house.
    
    I have never before or since felt the enormous power of the first
    encounter.  I found for a while afterward that I had a morbid
    fascination with such things and also a fear of the dark -- something
    I'd never had before.  In addition, much of the joy seemed temporarily
    to leave my life. Louisa Poole, who spoke at the recent Annual Meeting
    of The Univeral Listening Post, has had several encounters with such
    dark powers.  She says you should never oppose them, but spread light
    and ground their energies.  
    
    Love and Light
    
    Donald Reinke
    
    

    Dear George,
               
               can you tell me if there is a demon called Jabber Bundie.
    I heard that she is the demon who has the power to fix voices in your
    head,Is there any truth in this myth.? And has she any conection with
    Boleskin.?
    
    
                                       yours.
                                       Frank Bough.

    RE.STEVE KALLIS JR,
                      I am a devout church going christian who believes
    fully in the dark and evil side,but yet I am also facinated by it's
    unholy appeal.Do you think it is because I once watched "the devil
    rides out" on video at my cousins house?This film deeply disturbed
    me and I have not had a wink of sleep in weeks.
         I am not used to these type of films and normally watch"3 men and
    a baby" type films.
        I am asking you as you seem to know a lot of this kind of stuff.
    
                                  IAN

    Re .25 (Ian):
    
    >                  I am a devout church going christian who believes
    >fully in the dark and evil side,but yet I am also fascinated by it's
    >unholy appeal.Do you think it is because I once watched "the devil
    >rides out" on video at my cousins house?
     
    Without some more information, it's hard to answer.  "Fascinated"
    could mean "attracted" or "intrigued," which are separate things;
    whether the film triggered it, or _caused_ it, I couldn't say. 
    As a devout Christian myself, I tend to find demons rather repugnant
    creatures, but "interesting" in the way that studying any dangerous
    but unique life form would be.
    
    If you'd like to cover any of this in more detail, it might be more
    efficient to do so offline.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.