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| Title: | Psychic Phenomena |
| Notice: | Please read note 1.0-1.* before writing |
| Moderator: | JARETH::PAINTER |
|
| Created: | Wed Jan 22 1986 |
| Last Modified: | Tue May 27 1997 |
| Last Successful Update: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Number of topics: | 2143 |
| Total number of notes: | 41773 |
1129.0. "The Power of Choice" by VITAL::KEEFE (Bill Keefe - 223-1837 - MLO21-4) Fri Sep 15 1989 15:59
[ I was asked to post this by someone who thought it might be of ]
[ interest here. It's related to notes 951,952, & 953, but the author ]
[ thought it deserved it's own topic. - Bill Keefe]
There is much attention given today in personal development
courses and self-help books and tapes to the premise that we
create our own reality. Yet that is a perplexing concept to
understand for many people, because in considering that we
create our own reality it is easy to take responsibility for
the parts of it that are successful. But it is very difficult
for us to take responsibility for the parts of our reality
that are painful or are not working. We do not accept that we
would walk consciously into pain or confusion and certainly
we do not want to accept that we create the upheavals and
stresses in our lives.
Just how much power is there in the choices we make? Do we
even realize how we create? How many of the thousands of
choices we make each day are conscious choices? How many are
unconscious choices? When we choose to read a thought
provoking book or listen to classical music instead of, for
example, watching a violent movie; how does the choice of our
activity influence our lives either positively or negatively.
What effect does the choice to steal from another person have
on the quality of ones life or to look the other way when one
is being discriminated against because of their sex or race?
On how many different levels do we really make choices? Are
there any situations in which an individual finds him or
herself that is not of their doing? Did we choose the
circumstances for entering this particular lifetime or has it
purely been one of chance? There is also the belief prevalent
in many individuals that they must play the cards they are
dealt with in this lifetime.
What is your response for example, when you consider the idea
that you may be fully responsible for your experiences? Or
suppose that you were given important new knowledge of how
you create your reality. How would you then choose to live
your life differently? Do the choices we make actually set
energy into motion? What are the powerful as well as the
subtle effects of our choices on our lives personally as well
as collectively?
Let us focus on only this one aspect, what is the dynamic or
nature of the power of choice. The dynamic of choice is
literally the power to command creation. Realize that human
beings are unaware of that but, the invisible mechanism
behind the power of choice is that through choosing you are
using your will to form and command the manner in which the
physical molecules of that plane form together to create not
only your body but events and all forms of opportunities in
your life. The power of choice literally sets in motion the
dynamic of cause and effect which is also the dynamic of
karma. So that you see the entire process of creation occurs
as a result of the choices not only that you make as
individuals but as the choices combine and form the collective
unconscious the larger sphere is created. You might think in
terms of individual power of choice to realize that within
your own life whether or not you can see it all that you
experience is the result of all that you have chosen. The
missing link for most people is not that they do not have the
power of choice but that they do not realize: one, how
powerful it is and two at how many levels they do in fact
make choices that result in the creation of their life and of
their own quality of health in their physical body.
There is the obvious level of conscious choice that many
people of course would recognize immediately. The choice of
where to live and what to do and choices at the obvious
physical level, but I would say to you that those are the
choices that have the least amount of power in your life.
Underneath the obvious choices are the choices of your
super-conscious and your unconscious and those choices that
fall into the category of emotional responses, attitudes
about life, and the entire inner being of who you are active
making choices at all times. For example, you choose in every
single moment what it is you wish to believe about life,
about God, about the universe, about your fellow human beings.
You choose in every moment your emotional responses and how
you will be in the world. The reality is that most
individuals do not recognize their state of who they are as a
product of choice. Rather, they see it as a given, something
that is the result of environment and education and culture,
not realizing that they have chosen that - and not only do
you choose it before incarnation but everywhere along the
line you have the option of always evaluating what it is you
believe and choosing to release beliefs that are not
effective or are particularly negative or are limiting. For
example, the choice to be prejudiced is a choice one makes
and one cannot in conscience truly blame the choice to be
prejudiced upon ones social environment, but if they do of
course that choice will never be challenged and it will
create certain social dynamics. It will create certain
attitudes and those attitudes in turn will create certain
options in the persons life, certain opportunities. For
example, the rich opportunities that come from peoples of
other cultures other than your own would not be as open to
you if in fact you maintained a prejudicial attitude. So you
see it is the choices at the invisible level that truly have
the creative power within your life. Just as the choice to
remain angry or unforgiving very much indeed is the root of
many cancers. People do not realize that that is a choice and
that that choice has consequences.
So, how do we realize when our beliefs are limiting the
quality of choices we could be making? This in fact is the
whole purpose of life. It is a learning experience about the
nature of your own power and about your own natural capacity
to create and so into everybody's life are the experiences of
puzzlement in which they are absolutely convinced they did
not create what they've experienced. And yet, again and again
and again, so long as human beings maintain that point of
view, they experience mysteries in their lives. Mysteries are
simply the result of not recognizing what tools you were
using to create. There are no real mysteries and so the human
being will continue to create mysterious experiences or
confusing ones or very unnecessarily painful ones, because it
is the way that causes the human being to stop and once again
consider - "did I create this?" For many people, they take
this process in very little steps. In other words, it is very
difficult for most human beings to look at the whole of their
lives, all of their confusing situations, all of their painful
histories and accept immediately that they have created the
whole of it. For one thing, part of the difficulty in
accepting that lies in the belief that why would a rational
human being choose to create pain, choose to create
discomfort? That does not make sense to many human beings, to
most human beings in fact. But that is the human response. If
you were able in that moment to ask the question from your
higher self, which is "why did I create this - to learn
what?", the pain would not be the priority, but rather the
wisdom that is present within a situation and the task of
learning.
Most individuals can only take creation in small steps and so
they take a look at a situation they're in the midst of and
can accept, for example, that they created this argument or
they created this difficulty, because it is more obvious and
more easily acceptable to their consciousness and to their
capacity to change something. For example, a human being can
accept the possibility that he or she created a cold because
it is a difficulty that has a controllable aspect to it. It
is immediately able to be responded to without too much grief
or too much guilt. But for a human being to then take
responsibility for the creation of cancer or multiple
sclerosis, that is where the reality of this process breaks
down - of the process of creation, because that is too much
creation power for a human being to grapple with and it is to
baffling to the mind to consider that anything you would have
done as an individual could have resulted in the creation of
cancer for yourself. Rather, there is a tremendous learning
which needs to be filled in between the process of what it is
you choose and what is created as a result of your choices.
Because most human beings exist in a fog about the reality
that they create their own reality, how is it that they can
begin to appreciate the power of all that they choose each
moment in their lives? Therefore, creation occurs in a fog
for most human beings upon the earth, except in the most
obvious of ways.
The challenge is not that the situation defies the power of
creation, the challenge is for you to expand your own
awareness to a height and a quality that you can perceive how
it is that you're creating this. The dynamic of creation is
what it is - you create your own reality. That you cannot
account for why something has been created is the measure of
your challenge. For you to look at what it is inside of
yourself that is at argument with this truth, because the
truth is absolute. There are no exceptions to this.
Therefore, as a human being you can find some part of it
unacceptable and many will and many do. It is their challenge
to themselves and to what it is that they do not wish to take
responsibility for or what it is that they wish to remain
angry at. It is difficult for many human beings to accept the
possibility or the truth in fact that they would have chosen
to incarnate into a family that is poverty stricken or filled
with a great deal of pain and physical abuse or difficulties
of that nature. Of course, it is difficult for the human
personality to accept that you would choose such a thing.
But, you are looking from the point of view that does not
have all the data of your life. In that moment you are totally
unaware of who you are in the larger cosmic sense and what you
have experienced through a history of thousands of lifetimes,
through what you owe in terms of karmic debt, through what you
have to give in terms of karmic accomplishment. You are not
privy to that information and without that nothing that you
will experience in your mysteries will make sense and so the
challenge is for you to transcend the nonsensical part of it,
the non-reasonable aspect to it and to pursue the heart of
the mystery if indeed you created this. If indeed the
universe is a compassionate loving force, then what is it you
must reach for to reconcile those two exclusive points of
view - that the universe is compassionate and yet there is
pain within the experience of your personal life. Then you
must reach for the point of view of learning. Learning what
am I as a soul, not a personality, but a soul meant to learn
in this experience. If in fact you can reach for that, you
are then positioned to reach more rapidly and more clearly
with your own power to create different options so that your
pain does not have to remain. So that you can move forward
beyond your karmic difficulties and into a very different
world of creation in which these pains and limitations do not
exist. Compassion and healing is built into every one of
these challenges. Creation is not meant to destroy nor harm
any form of life, not one human form of life. Yet the reality
is each of you is responsible for what you've created and
contributed to your precious Earth, whether you're looking in
terms of this lifetime or all the other lifetimes. You have
indeed stepped right into where you have left off in terms of
your energy field. Therefore many of the physical events that
are created as a result of your energy field are mysteries to
you until you develop the precious capacity of being able to
see your energy field. Not in terms of the physical elements
of it, but in terms of what is created, what quality of
energy is at work here that these types of events are
created. What then is your response in terms of choosing to
heal the energy of to improve the vibrational field and how
do you do it - through what choices? The entire human
experience is the learning of creation itself.
If it is our choice or our choices that determine the
situations we find ourselves in and the growth opportunities
available to us, then where does the choice for lifetime
circumstances begin? The answer is - it begins before you
incarnate, from a vantage point that is very difficult for you
to step into because you're in human form, but let me suggest
that you join me in imagination as I describe this. Imagine,
that prior to your incarnation your values and what you hold
as precious to you exist on a scale of immortality instead of
mortality. You have an immortality scale of values, not one
that is mortal and that is all the difference. As a soul you
are very much aware of your precious life as a spirit, your
precious reality as a mortal being and all that is real
without illusion. When you are non-physical, the illusions
that you are wrapped in because of your precious body and your
physical structure do not exist. So your values cannot
possibly be the same. You recognize the human experience as
but a momentary instant in time and space that serves this
larger, exquisite evolution of yourself as a spirit and as an
emerging powerful spirit within an entire universe of billions
and billions of life-forms and spirits that spread throughout
eternity. With that scale, you choose to empower this process
in which you do not experience fear as a spirit in this
situation. You do not experience the fear of physical pain or
physical deprivation or poverty, rather as you look at the
human experience you see it for what it is - which is a
beautiful process in motion that in fact is working through
negativity that manifests as poverty, through lack of sharing,
through greed, through fear, because the human being as a
collective unconscious remains so blinded to the truth that it
is a spiritual journey. When you are non-physical, you are
not blinded to this truth and so you choose according to that
structure.
Now imagine, shall we say, that you meet with counselors who
gather around you and share with you an analysis of the many
lifetimes you've had and of what you've contributed to the
Earth. You're aware of all the individuals that you've been
and what each of these individuals has contributed to the
energy field and of what it is that you've contributed
beautifully to the energy field in terms of learning and
talent and positive life force. This is looked at, imagine,
as a type of graphic illustration that would be placed upon a
large computer screen in which you see all the many places
and energy points on the earth that you have ties to
energy-wise and all the individual souls that you have ties
to and all the collective souls. Then with your counselors
you create a blueprint for a lifetime in terms of what it is
you wish to experience and what it is the Earth needs from
you as an entire energy field, what it is your species needs
of you, what special talents you might have to give a certain
time period into which you would incarnate. As an example of
this, the reason why the magnificently talented souls of
Mozart, Beethoven, Vivaldi and the artists of that time
choose to incarnate together is because music plays a vital
role in the evolution of the human being. So, great spirits
of musical capacity gathered together and agreed to incarnate
to give a directional elevation to human evolution through
their talents as a collective unit. They gathered together to
form a collective incarnation and therefore it happened. Now,
had Mozart seen that he would starve would he have continued
upon his choice to incarnate? Of course he would have,
because from his vantage point he saw not only what he could
give to the Earth but how all humanity would benefit. Would a
few seconds in physical time, even though they are physically
uncomfortable, prevent such a gift on an immortality scale? I
do not think so. Likewise, when you look at your own life you
see quite clearly who would benefit of the contributions you
make of your life, how the world would respond and how you as
a spirit would gain in awareness. Would it matter then that
you look down upon the earth and in order to accomplish this,
to forward humanities unreasonable consciousness about
starvation and fear of limitations. If you look at that and
realize that is why there is hunger, because there is the
fear of limitations and fear of not having enough - as if the
universe would not provide for its own life that it is
responsible for. But because you believe this you create
poverty, you as a soul choose to further the breakdown of that
limitation and of that connection to greed and materialism.
In order to do that, you have to enter into that energy field
and yet you are shown what accomplishments are gained by your
courage to do that and therefore you choose.
From that point of view is it so puzzling that a human being
would choose to experience hunger when in fact, what is the
teaching of your master teacher Jesus, when he said "No
greater love has this than a human being would give his life
for another". He did not refer to standing in front of a
bullet. He referred to this, that you would incarnate and
choose to take on the negativity of your whole human
experience in order to move it one more step further, so that
the human consciousness could finally consider that the whole
of creation can exist without suffering.
What is the process then to begin? We have to reduce our
cosmic discussion to more practical terms. Therefore, let's
talk about what it is to make choices within your own life,
to study your own dynamic of cause and effect. In order for
individuals to appreciate this point of view, they have to
perhaps be willing to step into an experiment. That experiment
would be to live one day within the belief that they have
created everything that they experience, everything that they
are, every aspect of their health whether they're dealing
that day with a headache or a backache or even a serious
illness. That they've created everything, not being able to
find a parking spot, a tense situation with a parent, spouse
or child. You have to be willing to experiment in order to
maneuver your reality.
So, let us say that a human being has the courage to
experiment in this fashion, that they step forward into that
particular mental emotional position. That means that during
the course of that day that they are living this experiment,
that they've fully created their reality. That they cannot
blame one external aspect or person or circumstance for
anything that has happened or is happening or that they
experience. Now that, for many people, is overwhelmingly
difficult and yet that is what this requires. The beginning
step within your own life is to live as though you do create
your reality and that does mean not blaming anyone for
anything that happens in your life, because that is not so.
Now here is also the challenge and that is that
simultaneously as you create your individual reality, you
also create and participate in the creation of larger group
realities, that in fact influence what you experience. Now
this is going to get a bit tricky, but we need to pursue this
explanation.
In addition to an individual recognizing that he or she
creates their own reality, how does one take that truth and
apply it to the dynamics that happen in group relationships?
In other words, you do indeed create your own reality and at
the same time you might very well experience being lied to by
another person. Does that mean you created that persons lie?
What that means is that you agreed to be in a form of
relationship with that person, but that the person has lied
to you, is his or her karma, not yours. What you agreed to is
to be part of their learning process in some way but that the
particulars would be created when your paths crossed. You are
not responsible for what others do in a group collective, only
for your own energy. You did not agree to the particulars.
You agreed to share in a learning and so the options existed
that instead of being lied to you could just as easily had
the experience with that person of being told the truth, had
that person had more courage or more integrity.
We need to recognize that the power of choice is actually the
command of creation. Which means that every time we choose we
are in fact realigning the energy field around us. This in
turn sets up a new configuration of magnetic energy, which
draws those people and those events and circumstances that
can give us the opportunities to experience what it is we
need to learn, in order to evolve towards the level of
wholeness. Therefore we do indeed create our own reality
because we have been given this wonderful gift of the power to
choose.
How big a choice is necessary to change the direction of our
lives? I think many individuals would be very surprised to
realize that the idea of what is a major choice, is actually
from the point of view of energy, hardly distinguishable. What
you do by making a choice, no matter what it is, is that you
set energy in motion. For example, the choice to walk into a
particular store and perhaps meet a new person, can indeed
change your entire life if that is the person you end up
marrying. All choice is energy in motion and that is what is
important. When you are feeling as though you have no options
in your life, realize that simply by choosing to believe that
you do have options and that even to go for a walk down the
street can potentially change your life.
With this awesome power to choose comes the responsibility to
use it wisely. That is what the human learning experience is
all about. Because the system is self-correcting when we
don't choose wisely, the same lessons that we need to learn
are drawn to us over and over again until we do learn. If you
have a certain type of energy, until you clean that energy or
heal it, you are bound to create the same thing again and
again and again. It is not really that we draw it to us, it
is that we cannot create anything else.
The dynamic of learning to make wise choices takes place
within every single situation of your life. Let us back up
from the perfectly evolved soul - an individual who is a
fully enlightened soul would have no difficulty in
recognizing that he or she is totally at the helm of creation
within his or her reality. As you back up from that point of
being fully enlightened, you enter into blank spots of
confusion where you are not quite certain that you create this
or that part of your reality. So challenges are set up for
you to respond to in such a way that eventually you do come
to that conclusion that even this, yes indeed even this,
you've participated in the creation of in your life. In every
persons life where it is that situations occur that are
puzzling or you can't figure out how they were created -
that's your opportunity to say there is a learning here that I
am unaware of and must pursue. There is a part of myself that
I obviously do not know that is participating in creation and
so I accept the challenge to look into myself even more
deeply and find that part of myself that is operating.
| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1129.1 | This is my "choice" | MISERY::WARD_FR | Going HOME--as an Adventurer | Fri Sep 15 1989 17:32 | 7 |
| re: .0
I don't know the source, but it sounds pretty good to me.
Fits in well with my beliefs.
Frederick
|
| 1129.2 | | BOOKIE::ENGLAND | I'm a part of It's a part of me | Fri Sep 15 1989 17:44 | 14 |
| Re: .0
Thank you for entering that. Sometimes I feel like I can see a
great deal about my creations (even the unpleasant ones).
Surprisingly, with that feeling of "responsibility" comes a
feeling of freedom -- and greater lack of fear.
Some of my creations involve me acting unaware and feeling
trapped. But there's a part of me that wants to go through with
those creations anyway. I've felt that many times.
It's like being a character in a book I wrote.
Jerri
|
| 1129.3 | Yes indeed... | CGVAX2::PAINTER | One small step... | Fri Sep 15 1989 21:27 | 6 |
|
Re.0
Fantastic! Thank you.
Cindy
|
| 1129.4 | Breakthrough! | DNEAST::CHRISTENSENL | Keeper of the Myth | Sat Sep 16 1989 01:19 | 9 |
| Re: .2
How a snake must feel those minutes just before it sheds it's skin.
or a pollywog
or an emerging butterfly
or a birth
_the twelfth letter of the English alphabet_
|
| 1129.5 | Show me how to think ('n I'll follow you anywhere) | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | Let us go together, in Love | Mon Sep 18 1989 14:08 | 64 |
|
- .0
>So you see it is the choices at the invisible level that truly
>have creative power within your life. Just as the choice to remain
>angry or unforgiving very much is the root of many cancers. People
>do not realize that that is a choice and that that choice has
>consequences.
>So, how do we realize when our beliefs are limiting the quality
>of choices we could be making? This is in fact the whole purpose
>of life.
Example of choice at the invisible level? Connect all the dots
in the following pattern using only 4 straight lines, *without lifting
your pencil or pen from the paper*:
* * *
* * *
* * *
(Hint: it can be done)
If you cannot do it, you've made a choice at the "invisible level"
- I guess. Most people (myself included) will "lock on" to the idea
that the solution lies *within* the pattern, hence, locking out
the possibility that the solution lies elsewhere, which it does.
Locking onto the "solution within the pattern" belief, limits the
choices you have in solving the problem and therfore you conclude
that it cannot be done. The choice limitation here is directly due to
a thinking process limitation.
Perhaps the "whole purpose of life" is realizing that it is our
*thinking* which is limiting our beliefs, which in turn limits our
choices, which in turn determines what happens next. Perhaps creation
is more a product of the dynamics of thinking than it is the dynamics
of choice.
Another great example of our minds tendancy to "lock onto" a
limiting belief or perception is those front licence plates with
the word "FLY" on them - just comprised of only the shapes needed
to outline the word. I can still recall, until someone *showed me*, I
could not see for the life of me anything else but what looked like
a collection of random shapes and an arrow. I could not see the
word "FLY" until I was shown what to look for; I had made an "invisible
choice" of what I wanted to see.
I believe you have to change how you think - the very thought
dynamics - before you can change your beliefs, make different choices,
effect your life and determine your reality. I also belive it is
far better to be shown how, than to spend your whole life trying
to figure it out on your own, perhaps dying in the process along
the way.
Joe Jasniewski
|
| 1129.6 | But again, this too is a choice. | MISERY::WARD_FR | Going HOME--as an Adventurer | Mon Sep 18 1989 14:33 | 10 |
| re: .5 (JoeJas)
"I also believe it is far better to be shown how, than to spend
a life trying to figure it out, possibly dying in the process"
I agree...which is why I don't mind asking for help (and getting
it.)
Frederick
|
| 1129.7 | The Power of Mind | LEVERS::SBEHM | | Fri Sep 29 1989 11:59 | 63 |
|
> >So, how do we realize when our beliefs are limiting the quality
> >of choices we could be making? This is in fact the whole purpose
> >of life.
> Perhaps the "whole purpose of life" is realizing that it is our
> *thinking* which is limiting our beliefs, which in turn limits our
> choices, which in turn determines what happens next. Perhaps creation
> is more a product of the dynamics of thinking than it is the dynamics
> of choice.
> I believe you have to change how you think - the very thought
> dynamics - before you can change your beliefs, make different choices,
> effect your life and determine your reality.
Joe, and anybody else it may concern,
You may find some of the following ideas interesting.
In our ignorance of the truth, we have missed the highest
power we possess. And so great is this power - so complete
is our freedom in it, so absolute the domain of law through
it that the misuse of this power has brought upon us the vary
conditions from which we suffer. We are bound becouse we are
first free; the power which appears to bind us is the only
power in the universe which can free us. This is why Jesus
summed up His whole philosophy in this simple statement:
"It is done unto you as you believe". And so we suffer, not
becouse suffering is imposed upon us, but becouse we are
ignorant of our true nature.
To learn how to think is to learn how to live, for our
thoughts go into a medium that is Infinite in Its ability
to do and to be. Man, by thinking can bring into his
experience whatsoever he desires - if he thinks correctly,
and becomes a living embodiment of his thoughts. This is
not done by holding thoughts but by knowing the Truth.
The entire problem of limitation, evil, suffering, and
uncertainty is not God-ordained, but is the result of
ignorance. It has been written that the truth shall make
us free, provided we know the truth, the ignorance of
which excuses no man from it's effects - the bondage of
humanity.
To suppose that the Creative Intelligence of the Universe
would create man in bondage and leave him bound, would
be to dishonor the Creative Power we call God. To suppose
that God could make man as an individual, without leaving
him to discover himself, would be to suppose an impossibility.
Individuality must be spontaneous; it can never be automatic.
The seed of freedom must be planted in the innermost
being of man, but, like the Prodigal Son, man must make
the great discovery for himself.
If we try to find something difficult to grasp, then we
shall never grasp it, becouse we shall always think of
it as incomprehensible. The mind which we discover within
us IS THE MIND THAT GOVERNS EVERYTHING. This is The Thing
Itself, and we should recognize its simplicity.
Some highlights taken from The Science of Mind,
written by Ernest Holmes.
Steve
|
| 1129.8 | Quote | CGVAX2::PAINTER | One small step... | Fri Sep 29 1989 15:32 | 4 |
|
"Whether you think you _can_ or think you _can't_ - you are right."
- Henry Ford
|
| 1129.9 | | USWAV1::JOLLIMORE | | Fri Sep 29 1989 16:27 | 12 |
| .8 Cindy
Hank was a great man, but I feel he's wrong on that quote. Sounds
off-the-cuff to me.
Many people surprise themselves.
"Some think they can't and do. Some
think they can and fool themselves."
- Jay Jollimore
|
| 1129.10 | i doubt that i can't... | REGENT::WAGNER | | Mon Oct 02 1989 09:46 | 10 |
| .9 Jay
Perhaps, there was some miniscule doubt that they "can't" so
for that moment they operated on the "can" and found out they "could".
In other words, if someone is convinced that they "can't," then they
won't even try, otherwise if their conviction is not so concrete
a glimmer of hope they have may take over and they find out that they
"can." They didn't fully believe they "couldn't" in the first place.
What did i just say? (:'>
|
| 1129.11 | | USWAV1::JOLLIMORE | | Wed Oct 04 1989 09:28 | 7 |
| .10 Ernie
If I followed what you said ;') I think I agree.
Sometimes I think it takes an outside source to provide that glimmer
of hope tho.
Jay
|
| 1129.12 | Making Choices | ACE::MOORE | | Fri Nov 02 1990 18:38 | 10 |
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Few people make a deliberate choice between good and evil; the choice
is between what we want to do and what we ought to do. I think that
choice, not chance, determines destiny. When someone makes a choice
and doesn't make it, that in itself is a choice. The choice is simple
you can either stand up and be counted or lie down and be counted
out.
RM
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