Conference hydra::dejavu

    My name is Iiissa and I am a walk-in well acquainted with El-ahn.
    For those who may be interested in seeing El-ahn, she is a superior
    practioner (I go to her myself), I have also worked with her at
    various times. She does indeed use a 7-8 ft. copper pyramid in her
    work area, as do I, but not all the time. Also the "chamber" is
    not always surrounded with rose quartz, it might be flourite or
    onyx, etc. Different geometrical grids and different stones are
    used for specific reasons and results.
    
    The "design alchemy" is better known as crystal and/or gem elixirs
    which are prepared and blended specifically for the client in need.
    
    In our practices, El-ahn and I both work primarily with the electro-
    magnetic field at all levels of the lifestream.
    
    I live in the Worcester area. If you live in this area or just have
    further questions you can contact me directly at CIMNET::ATKINSON
    dtn: 291-7562.
    

Okay, I'll ask the question...

What is a 'walk-in'?  There is a barber shop near my house that has on
their sign, 'Walk-ins welcome'.  I assume this is not what's meant.

Terry

    re: .2 
    
        Terry, maybe it has something to do with water (as in 
    "Walk-in in the rain") or visits to South Africa (as in
    "Walk-in to Pretoria") or sunshine (as in "walk-in to the
    sight of light") or maybe even cooking (as in "walk-in food
    is the favorite Oriental style".)
        Maybe not, huh?!
    
    
    Frederick
    

    re: .2,.3
    
    It is my understanding that this conference is dedicated to the
    exploration, expansion and understanding of consciousness in it's
    infinitude.  With that in mind, I will do my utmost to contribute
    to the expansion of your consciousness to include an understanding
    of what a walk-in is so that in future you may be less judgemental
    about things that are currently outside of your consciousness.
    
    The reason lifestreams come to the physical plane is to experience
    limitation of one kind or another at all levels in order to learn
    to overcome that limitation through the qualification of energy.
    A walk-in is a conscious lifestream that changes places with the
    lifestream that originally incarnated in a particular vehicle (body).
    This is an experience that has been agreed upon by both lifestreams
    prior to the incarnation. A regular incarnating lifestream is a
    full-blown or mature consciousness that comes into an infant body
    having to learn how to make that body work for it etc., without
    conscious awareness of what it's life purpose is at the time of
    incarnation. It may or maynot discover that purpose sometime during
    the incarnation depending on the choices it makes. Whereas, the walk-in
    is a mature consciousness who comes into a mature body with conscious
    awareness of it's purpose.
    
    I hope this answers your question. If you have further questions,
    please ask....you might also read some of the literature on the
    subject....a good place to start is with books by Ruth Montgomery.
    
    Iiissa
                                                               

    re: .4
    
        Iiisa (how is this pronounced?), sorry to offend...I certainly
    meant no harm.  Actually, walk-ins have been discussed in here before
    so it isn't really new to this conference.  My friend Lazaris has
    told us that yes, they do exist, but no, there aren't very many of
    them.  In any case, sometimes I am at "your end" of the joke and
    I know what it can feel like...usually I try to adopt a Shirley
    MaClaine attitude (she likes to write the jokes for joke-writers)
    but other times they penetrate into hurt.  Sorry to hurt, only
    play was intended.
    
    Frederick
    

    re: .1, .2, .3, .4:
    
    Please read note 864.3 for a more detailed description of walk-ins
    as described by Ruth Montgomery.
    
    						Todd

    re: .5
    
    Frederick,
       Apology accepted, but unnecessary...no harm concluded, no hurt
    taken, no offence taken.  Only observation of interesting behavior.
    Possibly not the best way to greet newcomers to your forum.
    
    Iiissa is pronounced (Eye-e-sa).
    
    Are you personally acquainted with Lazaris? Our numbers grow daily,
    walk-ins that is. For information purposes, some vehicles will have
    multiple walk-ins over the lifespan of the vehicle as the vibrational
    rate of that vehicle accelerates.  With each walk-in the name and
    vibration will change.  Sometimes the purpose will change as well.
    The primary purpose usually remains the same, although secondary
    purposes may change bringing secondary areas of expertise to the
    fore.
    
    I am happy to participate in this forum and will gladly assist
    and/or clarify wherever needed.
    
    Iiissa
    
    
    

    re: .7 (Iiisa)
    
         Okay, thanks.  As for numbers increasing daily, well, that's
    okay, too.  Recently I read something written by Carl Sagan wherein
    he was talking about resolving world population problems.  In the
    article, he mentioned how some (I'm paraphrasing) people believe
    that alien life forms (ALF?) will save them and he pointed out that
    at present there are 250,000 humans added DAILY.  He asked if it 
    would be reasonable to imagine space ships which could wisk away
    OVER (in order to reduce the population of the planet) 250,000
    humans per day...and where would there be a place with room and food?
    In other words, while it may be a "selfish" wish for each of
    us individually, it is massively impractical for all of humanity
    to expect this kind of "salvation."  
         What does this have to do with walk-ins?  Very little, probably.
    Any of us can "escape" this life at virtually any time.  I would
    not see it as particularly advantageous to another entity to wish
    to "take over" my form (okay, it's not that bad, but I'm sure they
    could do better if they really wanted ;-) )  So I would expect the
    same of most other entities as well.  The end result of this
    "attitude" is that there probably aren't too many who would really
    follow through (I believe.)  So, while numbers may be increasing
    daily, percentages are undoubtably infinitesimally small.
    
         Yes, I am personally acquainted with Lazaris.  He knows me
    better than I know him, however.
    
    
    
    Frederick
    

   re: .4 (Iiissa)

   Sorry too.  My question was meant to be serious.  The pun at the
   end, well it was probably something I had for lunch.  At any rate,
   thanks for the information; it, along with the pointer to 864.3
   will help me understand one more of life's little mysterys.

   Terry

                     -< Warning >-
    
      I have read the books by Ruth Montgomery and found them very
    enlightening. If you put them in prospective and look what
    happening around you you will see that it make very good sense.
    Iiissa is also trying to tell us something on why she is here.
    She walks and talks like evryone else, has a job, but also has
    a new purpose and task. I am going to see El-ahn and Iissa and
    will post the experience in this notes file on 5/1. Maybe I will
    be able to help clarify things better. I also read the note 864.3
    and it is very good.
    
    see ya! next note....
    

         I was thinking briefly about this last night and realized
    that the new tv series called "Quantum Leap" (NBC, Friday nights)
    is sort of like walk-ins.  A difference is that in the show
    this guy "walks-in" to different bodies in the past while they
    move into his in the present (although we don't see this part.)
    Also, this is done via science instead of via spirituality or
    whatever.
    
    Frederick
    

    Iiissa,        
    
    Many questions await you! :^)  I'd like to understand Walk-in's
    better and can think of many things to ask.  Here it goes!  You
    did give me permission :^)
    
    Could you give some details of what occured, (what happened to 
    you when this happened and how did you deal with it)?  What has 
    been some of the changes that took place (i.e. personality)?  What 
    are the reasons for this taking place?  What special talents do
    you now have that you didn't before the exchange?  Are you ever
    in contact with your old spirit?  How are your friends and relatives
    dealing with your new identity?  Do they notice the difference?
    
    I'm asking this to get a better understanding of Walk-in's.  I've
    read the notes and references in books, but thought it more meaning-
    ful to get first hand information.  Some background about your ex-
    perience would be nice before asking more specific questions about 
    what you do and the benefits of your practice.
    
    Thanks for being understanding,
    Joanne  

    Joanne,
    
    I am happy to answer your questions.
    
    The lifestream who was known as Jeanne G. Atkinson (whose name I retain
    for legal purposes (Digital, Income Tax, Social Security, etc) had been
    pursuing spiritual growth and enlightenment for some 30 years (from the
    age of 10) and had gone to El-ahn a couple of times for treatment of
    arthritis. I had been observing Jeanne's lifestream, family, job,
    interactions, etc. because the time was drawing near for the exchange
    and I needed to be as familiar with all these things as possible to
    ease the transition.
    
    On Patriot's day 1988 Jeanne went into Boston for a 9:00
    appointment. Just after Jeanne arrived, El-ahn received information on
    the arrangement of a specific crystal grid she had never used before.
    Jeanne spent about an hour in this grid and then came out of the grid
    and just rested for a while. Later on, Jeanne got back in the grid and
    was in there about 30 minutes when she started to feel as if her body
    was being compressed and the bones rearranged slightly(sort of like a
    strenuous chiropractic adjustment) although noone was touching her that
    could be seen with the human sight. She felt herself releasing from the
    body and the breath rhythm slowing and then stopping. Next, I entered
    the body through the crown chakra establishing the electromagnetic
    field.
                     
    I felt as if I were trying to wriggle into this incredibly tight girdle 
    except that
    it covered me entirely and girdles don't normally do that! There was a
    great intake of air in a rush and the breath rhythm was re-established
    and there I was in this unfamiliar vehicle. It was very strange and un-
    comfortable at first. I was disoriented and wasn't at all sure I liked
    this arrangement. One of my first thoughts was "Do I really have to 
    stay in this thing for who knows how long? Why did I consent to this?"
    
    I stayed at El-ahn for the rest of the day trying to get used to
    working this vehicle.....It's kind of like buying a new car and then
    figuring out how the buttons, knobs and gagets work. I was also
    reviewing specific memories and information I would need in the
    upcoming hours in order to get back to Jeanne's home and "resume
    business as usual". ... I took several weeks to really feel reasonably
    comfortable in this vehicle. I have expanded the lung capacity, re-
    vibrated the DNA and RNA to the correct configuration to support my
    vibratory rate, and am still fine tuning the chemical balances.
    Arthiritis is no longer a condition of this vehicle although it did 
    take about two and a half to three months to remove the manifestations
    of that condition that had been entrenched in the vehicle for approx-
    imately 10 of your years. There are still conditions created by the
    emotions that I am in the process of balancing. Certain patterns of
    emotional qualification of enery that have been repeated over a long
    period of time likewise take time to release and balance.
    
    As for changes in personality....I am more extroverted, have a lighter
    sense of humor, am non-judgemental (which isn't to say I have no
    opinions) and am balanced in my emotions. 
    
    It took Jeanne's family and friends a little while to realize that
    something was different. They saw that she changed her hair style,
    the color of her eyes was slightly but noticably different, she wore
    her makeup differently and it was more colorful,etc. That she was more
    cheerful, less emotional, easier to get along with and very intensely 
    interested in the cultivation of healing techniques hitherto unknown
    to Jeanne, and various other subtle changes. When they began to ask
    questions, I explained the change....The family accepted the change
    quite easily, but then Jeanne's family was well versed in all the
    "New Age" consciousness expanding practices and activities that 
    Jeanne took part in....she prepared them well. Some of the friends
    found it more difficult to accept me....some didn't accept me, some
    did. 
    
    You ask about the reasons for this taking place....This planet, solar
    system, galaxy and universe are shifting. The system of universes is
    ever growing and expanding so it is continuously in a state of change.
    This universe is shifting to come more in line with the central
    universe and move in from it's position on the perifery of this system.
    There are some major consciousness and vibratory changes in store
    for this planet as part of it's evolution and yours. Therefore, there
    are a great number of us coming to help facilitate the lifestreams
    here in the acceleration of their vibratory rates in order to make
    the transition with the planet and bring the planet to it's intended
    evolutionary goal. Of course we can not facilitate those who are not
    ready and/or willing for this help. Free will is always inviolate.
    It is not our purpose to create your reality.  
    
    Talents? if you view them as such....
    
    Seeing the electromagnetic field and any blockages in the flow, seeing
    auras and the manifestation of thought-forms and emotions in the aura,
    seeing the undulating muon waves in what you call the air, channeling
    the color and vibratory rates of the light rays from the central and
    corresponding suns for healing and energy recharge purposes, telepathic
    communication with lifestreams inside and outside this universe,
    communication with Universal mind (as you call it), etc. Tonal and
    vibratory information for adjusting electro-magnetic fields. These are 
    some of the "talents" that were not inherent to Jeanne. Not all of
    these were immediately available to me upon inhabiting this vehicle.
    As I accelerated the vibratory rate of this vehicle to accommodate
    myself I was able to pull in more and more of my inherent capacity and
    the process is ongoing. Let it be understood that accelerating the 
    vibratory rate of any vehicle is a process that should be taken slowly
    in order not to burn out the electrical system.
    
    As for Jeanne, yes, we are occasionally in contact, which does not
    mean that this is necessarily the norm, That lifestream is making
    rapid progress in it's new adventure.
    
    I hope this helps clarify one walk-ins' experience. It is important to
    understand that this was a voluntary action on our part.....it is also
    important to understand that the situation was not one of Jeanne not
    accomplishing the purpose for which she came into incarnation, quite
    the contrary.
    
    Please feel free to ask whatever questions you have and I will answer
    to the best of my ability to relate the information in comprehensive
    terms.
    
    Iiissa
    
     
    
    
       
    

    Hi Iiissa,
    
    I enjoyed reading your reply to Joanne; it was fascinating.
    
    I hope you will considering attending the next DEJAVU gathering
    (not planned as yet).  I'm certain there are many of us who
    would like to meet and talk with you.
    
    Regards,
    
    Ro
    

    re: .10, (HPSMEG::ANDREW)
    
    Today is 5/1 and I can't wait to hear what you have to say!
    
    Jill
    

    I went and had my visit with El-ahn on Friday. She told me things
    about myself that only I knew. The pyramid was taken down and replaced
    with a large copper coil and crystals. I sat in a chair and felt
    a pulling sensation in the center of my body. She tlod me that she
    was trying to clear my path of electrical energy. I was blocked
    in the center of my body. After this we talked for a while about
    her walk in experience. What she told me was exactly like the
    experience that Iiissa has had. I am going to meet with Iiissa
    tomorrow and continue on with her. El-ahn also told me of the shift
    that is comming and is very interesting and makes sense. I will
    continue this after I meet with Iiissa.
    
    Denny..
    

    Hi Ro,
    
    I would very much like to attend the next DEJAVU gathering and meet
    you all! Thank you for inviting me.
    
    Iiissa
    

    Denny,
    
    I look forward to hearing more.
    
    Jill
    

        Iiissa,
    
    Thank you for the information you passed on.  I enjoyed it and learned
    a great deal from it, and I'm sure others have also.  I'd like to
    ask a few more personal type questions before going on to
    understanding your talents/job.
    
    First of all it would be nice to know where you came from.  What
    type of form (as we know form) is common to you?  What type of vehicle,
    if any, would you normally come in to if you stayed in a process
    that is normal to you or is this normal to you?  Why did you not
    enter the earth by a more common means (birth->child->adult)?
    
    You spoke about the changes that are to come.  Could you explain,
    as you know it, what the changes will be for us on the planet Earth?
    What type of preparation should we as Earthlings be making so that
    we can help reach this evolutionary goal you mentioned?
    
    There are enough questions here for now.  Iiissa, thank you again
    for being so open with us.
    
    Joanne
    

    Good Morning Joanne,
    
    I am from Metenarc in the Central Universe. The type of form or 
    vehicle common to me is what you would call a "light body". It
    looks like a bright rainbow.  Being in the third dimension where
    physical vehicles are necessary is not "normal" for me, or for
    a good number of you either.
    
    The reason I did not enter the earth in the more common manner is
    because I needed to actively pursue the purpose for which I came
    as quickly as possible and my lifestream no longer has the need
    for the incarnational experience.  
    
    As for the Changes:  This planetary body has endured a tremendous 
    amount of misqualified energy during it's normal evolutionary
    process. It has come to the place where it will no longer endure
    any energy that is not manifest from divine love as it moves into
    it's proper alignment with the Central Universe. The polar axis
    will come up straight again and change....the negative pole will
    become the positive pole and vice versa....land masses will rise
    where there is currently water and water will be in some places 
    that are currently land masses as Earth expelles these energy
    matrices. The polar ice caps will melt. Weather patterns will change, 
    ....they already are!               
    
    I am not suggesting that it is time for you to panic. I am suggesting
    that it is time for all inhabitants of this lifestream known to
    you as Earth to "re-examine themselves" and discard areas of thought,
    behavior, habit & communication that are  unloving either towards 
    themselves or others and to work diligently at it in order to change
    your electro-magnetic patterns.  It would be extremely beneficial to
    come to an understanding of what "unconditional or divine" love is, as
    it is not qualified with emotion.
       
    One of the major reasons for incarnating in this dimension is to learn
    mastery of the emotional body. Lifestreams in this dimension tend to
    qualify thoughts and actions with emotion making them either positive
    or negative causing an upward or downward spiral of energy.
    The upward spirals cause the DNA to vibrate faster, the downward
    spirals cause it to vibrate slower and create blocks in the electro-
    magnetic field, slowing your evolution. 
    
    That would be a very good beginning!
     
    Iiissa
    
    
    

    "Where"  do the lifestreams who trade away their bodies "go?"
    
    /bruce
    

    HELLO THERE,
    
    I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD PROVIDE ME WITH INFORMATION ON
    CHANNELLING?  I CURRENTLY HAVE AN ENTITY NAMED ORN WHO INHABITS
    MY BODY SIMULTANEOUSLY.  I ALSO HAVE A FRIEND OF MINE WHO HAS
    BEEN CHANNELLING FOR 5 YEARS.  I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN
    THIS AREA SINCE A CHILD.  MY MOTHER IS VERY PSCHIC AND I AM TOO.
    I HAVE TAUGHT CLASSES IN THIS BEFORE AND HAVE GIVEN READINGS TO
    A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH ACCURACY.  HOWEVER, THE CHANNELING ASPECT IS
    NEW AND FASINATING TO ME AND I WANT TO OBTAIN AS MUCH INFO AS I
    CAN SO I CAN MASTER THIS AND BE GOOD AT IT.
    
    PLEASE SEND ME A REPLY IN THIS FORUM OR  GIAMEM::MURRAY
    
    THANKS FOR YOU HELP
    

    
    
    Hello Iiissa...
    
        My name is John, and I have a question as well...
    
     By the way, this is all very interesting, and I am thanking you in
    advance for any future information that you provide to us.
    
    Sooo, my question is... in reply .21, you stated that you need to 
    actively pursue your purpose for which you came...
    
    " What is your purpose"
    
    johnboy  g^\/
    

    
    
    Hi Iiissa, tis me again...
    
        Another question,or two..
    
    1) How many light years away is Metenarc.
    
    2) What is it's size compaired to Earth.
    
    3) How many lifeforms such as yourself inhabit Metenarc.
    
    4) Do you go back, once you have done what you have been sent to do.
       If not, then where do you go next???
    
    Thanks again, Im sure that more questions will come up later...
    
    
    johnboy  g^\/
    

    .22  
    Lifestreams who agree to relinquish their vehicles to walk-ins go to
    other planetary bodies either in the same system or in other systems
    for new experiences in continuing their evolution.
    
    .23
    From your note, I am not certain what it is you are asking me. It is
    up to you whether you want me to reply to you in this forum or
    personally.  I would request that either way you ask me some specific
    questions.  I have some questions for you as well, but will wait to
    ask until I know where you want me to reply to yours.
    
    .24
    Hi John,
    My purpose is to facilitate the lifestreams here in the acceleration
    of their vibratory rates in order for them to make the transition with
    with the planetary body. By the way, this is not appropriate for all
    lifestreams on this planet as some are not ready.
     
    Iiissa
    

.26

>   Lifestreams who agree to relinquish their vehicles to walk-ins go to
>   other planetary bodies either in the same system or in other systems
>   for new experiences in continuing their evolution.

As what? What are we when we 'relinquish' our 'vehicles'? What type of
new vehicle does a displaced lifestream take on? Does the displaced
lifestream take on a new vehicle at all? Name another planetary body in
this system where displaced lifestreams are continuing their evolution.

Jay

    re: .23 (Debbie?)
    
          I don't know if you are asking specifically of Iiisa or
    in general, but if it's the latter, you could start in this 
    conference with note 288, perhaps (for some information on channeling.)
    There are several other notes in this conference that deal with 
    channeling also, but if you read 288 carefully, some of them
    are pointed to.
    
    Frederick
    

    re: .26, Iiissa,
    
    < My purpose is to facilitate the lifestreams here in the acceleration
    < of their vibratory rates in order for them to make the transition with
    < with the planetary body. 
     
    In one of the earlier replies, you spoke of the effects of positively- 
    and negatively-charged emotions and their effects on the vibratory
    rates.  What, in specific, can we do to accelerate our vibratory rates
    as you mentioned here?  
    
    < By the way, this is not appropriate for all
    < lifestreams on this planet as some are not ready.
    
    How would one know if they are or are not ready?
    
    Jill

    .25
    John,
    Metenarc is more "light years" away than is calculable or comprehensive
    by your numbering system.
    
    It is 3 times the size of Earth
    
    There are several million lifestreams like me.
    
    Yes, I will go back to Metenarc when I have completed my purpose here.
    
    
    .29
    Jill,
    As I stated in .21 the first step and it is a BIG ONE is to start
    examining yourself (not anyone else, just you) and becoming
    "consciously aware" of your thought, behavior, habit and communication
    patterns and noting to what extent these are unloving either with
    regard to you or to others. In doing this, you will begin to realize
    how these patterns influence the manifestation of your life
    experiences. Whatever you repeat or concentrate on manifests, be it a 
    thought, something you visualize, something you affirm, something you
    call someone or say to them about themselves/or something you say to
    yourself about you, etc; because you are adding energy to it and 
    therefore are "CREATING". What you create and send out acts like an
    Australian boomerang and returns to you (only multiplied many, many
    times)and if it is a downward spiral it will cause blockages in your 
    electro-magnetic field starting with your causal body and working it's
    way down through the mental, emotional, etheric and then into the
    physical body.  If it is an upward spiral it will also work it's way
    down through the bodies and raise your vibrational rate.
    
    So the "Golden Rule" is not just a pleasant expression to hang on your
    wall and contemplate...it is a cosmic truth! "Others" means all forms
    and manners of life (consciousness)*Warning*...Many things that humans
    judge to be unintelligent or without consciousness are quite the 
    contrary!!!!
    
    You will then want to start training yourself to change your patterns.
    This does not mean that if you slip you judge yourself and say "Oh how
    stupid of me" or "I shouldn't have done that", because judgement is an-
    other downward spiral....simply make note of the slip and immediately
    and consciously reclaim that thought or word, etc and change it.
    This also doesn't mean that it is "O.K." to act one way and think
    another......it means THOUGHT, BEHAVIOR, SPOKEN WORD (COMMUNICATION)
    HABITS (INVOLVE THE CARE OF YOUR BODY AND WHAT YOU INGEST),WHAT YOU
    BELIEVE ABOUT YOURSELF AND OTHERS (because what you believe is charged
    with emotion).
    
    From there you might want spend some time daily in meditation,
    getting in tune and in touch with the inner you (your causal body).
    Moderate exercise is important to the proper functioning of your
    vehicle....Breathing exercises are vitally important. Depending on
    how rapidly you want to accelerate, you may want to have some
    adjustments with a good practioner.....If you feel you want to see
    El-ahn or myself that is fine....or if you are more comfortable with
    massage and or acupuncture/accupressure do that (things that will move
    the energy and blockages in the field and the meridians; or someone 
    who does tonal therapy....whatever you are comfortable with!  It would 
    also be beneficial to have some crystal work done....If you have a good 
    crystal practioner go to them on a regular basis for a while, or 
    if you are versed in crystal therapeutics set up grids in your
    home and get in daily if possible. Positive affirmations to replace
    the previous patterns is very beneficial....make tapes in your own
    voice and use daily.
    
    If you seriously want to do this you need to make a commitment to
    "YOURSELF".
    
    If you are asking, you are ready....."When the student is ready
    the teacher appears"!!!
    
    I salute the Light within all of you!
    Iiissa
    
    

    
    
    Hello again Iiissa...
    
       In your last note,you talk about Affirmations and changing the
    thought process...I was wandering, have you had the chance to
    participate in the "Investment In Excellence" coarse being offered
    by digital???
    
    
       In this coarse, you are given the skills and the tools for changing
    the thought process( if you so desire), and the process for Imprinting
    Affirmations.
    
    
    johnboy  g^\/
    
    

�         <<< Note 1034.27 by STARDM::JOLLIMORE "We are what we think" >>>
� 
� >   Lifestreams who agree to relinquish their vehicles to walk-ins go to
� >   other planetary bodies either in the same system or in other systems
� >   for new experiences in continuing their evolution.
� 
� As what? What are we when we 'relinquish' our 'vehicles'? What type of
� new vehicle does a displaced lifestream take on? Does the displaced
� lifestream take on a new vehicle at all? Name another planetary body in
� this system where displaced lifestreams are continuing their evolution.
� 
    Iiissa, would you please answer these questions?
    
    thanx/bruce
    

    .32
    Bruce,
>> As what?   What type of new vehicle?
    Whatever major lifeform is operable on the given planetary body
    depending on the dimension and whatever the pictogram is.
    
>> What are we when we 'relinquish' our 'vehicles'?
    When a lifestream relinquishes it's vehicle it reverts to it's light
    body (causal body). 
    
>> Does the displaced lifestream take on a new vehicle at all?
    As I said above, that will depend on the dimension and pictogram.
    
>> Venus... and please don't reply by telling me that no lifeforms have
    been detected....it only means that you have not created the necessary
    necessary mode of detection.
    
       Iiissa

.33

Please speak to the dimension and pictogram of Venus, and describe as
best you can, the major lifeform which is operable there. 

Jay

Iiissa,

Some more questions for you.  Didn't put anything in writing
yesterday, so here is a couple of days worth.

In .30 you mentioned the causal body, the mental, the emotional,
the etheric, and the physical.  Is that how you see us earthlings?

When you took over Jeanne's vehicle, you mentioned the arthritis
disappeared and there was a change in the eye color.  Were there
any other physical changes?

Did Jeanne's conscious mind remain, did you bring one in, are
you now in possession of both?

You mentioned the grids.  What are they and how are they used?
Why does El-ahn use a pyramid at times and a coil at other times?
How do you or El-ahn receive information on changing the grids
and from what source?

What stones/gems/minerals do you commonly use?  How do these
materials affect us?

You see auras.  Do you notice the colors?  Are auras made up of
many colors or should they be one color (have heard different
thoughts on this matter)?  If they are of many colors, do you
see people lacking in a specific color or range of colors?  Is
the colors in the aura important to a person's well-being?  If
so, how does one rectify the problem of lack of a color or 
colors?

In your point of view, how do you see astrology and numerology
and their affect on us?  What about music?  

Will leave it at this for today.  Iiissa, thanks for the infor-
mation.  I have enjoyed every word.

Joanne

    Iiissa,
    
    Do you have a Terminal At Home in Metenarc?
    
    -Arthur  ;-)

    THANKS, FREDERICK.
    
    I'M NEW TO THE NOTES FILE AND USED IT SPECIFICALLY TO OBTAIN FURTHER
    INFO ON CHANNELLING.
    
    DEB
    Z

    Good Morning,
    For all those who have posed questions to me, I will respond to you
    tomorrow. I am trying to finish a presentation that I have to give
    today at 10 and time is of the essence.
    
    Iiissa

    re: .39, Iiissa,
    
    <  time is of the essence
    
    Great line!!  Can I quote you on that?  ;-)
    
    Jill

         ...and here are a few more questions...
         
         What is the intended evolutionary goal? What is the proper
     alignment with the Central Universe?
         
         How do you facilitate the aborigines acceleration of their
     vibratory rate?
         
         Why does your species use terms generated by the Theosophists?

         How does a walk-in differ from a multiple personality
    manifestation?
    
         Why should we trust you? You could be a cyber-parasite from
    some other place. 

    
    
    Helloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Iiissa....
    
    R-U-there???
    
    We're waiting ta here from ya...  ;^)
    
    Lots-n-lots-n-lots of unanswered questions???
    
    
    johnboy  g^\/
    

    RE: 1034.30.  
    
    Could you tell me more about "setting up crystal grids in your own
    home"?  I've done some (limited) meditation with crystals, but have
    gotten away from it recently.  Someone was so facinated with my
    crystal that she picked it up and inspected it...it was never the
    same again, even after cleansing.  I took it to Hawaii with me and
    cleansed it for seven days in sea water, but it seems 'dead'.  Do
    you know if this is possible?  The person who touched it is vaguely
    interested in crystal power, but not terribly sincere about feelings
    towards me.  Could that have had more negative impact on it than
    a 'regular' person who didn't feel that way about me?
    
    I realize that there are several questions here...I get so excited
    when I find someone who 'understands' and can help.
    
    N.
    

    .33
    Jay,
    It is not for me to create your reality.....if you have evolutionary
    need to know the dimension and pictogram of Venus then I would suggest
    you tune in to the Universal Flux and decypher it for yourself.
    
    I don't do expectation in any shape, way or form.
    
    Iiissa

    .36
    Arthur,
    There is not need of a terminal on Metenarc!
    
    

    I would like to tell you all that I will address any sincere, from
    the heart questions from now on, but any other type of question will
    be strictly ignored.....It is of totally no consequence to me what any
    of the reading or writing audience thinks or feels about me as I am not
    here to prove my existance...that is not my purpose and has no bearing
    on it.  
    
    As I would do myself, I would suggest that you turn within for the 
    answers in your reality. Then you will know whether what I have said is
    correct for you. I will not engage your consciousness, it is Creator of
    your reality.
    
    Theosophy did not create the cadence or frequency of the light forms I
    share with you...it simply tried to decode it for you.
    
    I am on leave for the next six weeks working on myself....I will check 
    in occasionally.
    
    Please understand that I am not here to interfere in anyway with the
    evolution of this planet or any of its lifestreams....merely to teach
    and assist those who are ready to accelerate if it is in their reality.
    
    Iiissa	

    
    
    Iiissa,
           In reply.31, I asked you about Affirmations & Visualizations and
    if you had taken part in the "Investment In Excellence" seminar being
    offered by Digital.
    
      If you have not taken this seminar, I would be interested in possibly
    talking further with you on the benefits of Affirmations &
    Visualizations. Feel free to contact me by mail at BTOVT::LAWYER_J
    
    johnboy  g^\/
    

    Iiissa,
    
    The best of everything to you on your leave of absence.  I look forward
    to more conversations when you return.
    
    Jill
                                                   

    Iiissa,
    
    How old is your lifestream?

    Iiissa -
    
    are you back yet?  I've enjoyed your notes tremendously.  I was
    wondering
    if you're aware of who other walk-ins are outside of the Boston area.
    I would be interested in working with someone like yourself, however,
    I live in Colorado Springs.
    
    Love and light.
    
    Mary
    

    
    RE: .0 Dianna (my wife) and I had a tonal alignment thingie during
    	the Dejavu party.... very interesting... and if one has the
    	oppertunity to observe one, or take part in one... I would
    	recomend the experiance. 
    
    	I personally didn't feel any dif.. nor did the wife... as of
    	yet... however I would imagin you would only get measurable
    	results with this (if measurable results can be reached) after
    	exposure over a period of sessions.
    
    	Very interesting and I would like to learn more about it
    	and the tones used.
    
    	Craig 

    re: .50                                                                 
                                                                           
    Iiisa (Zeffel) extended her leave due to an illness in her family.      
    Those of you so inclined, may wish to send healing energy (or whatever  
    you feel is appropriate) for a complete healing of her father who       
    will be undergoing surgery this Thursday (tomorrow). I don't know what
    time the surgery is scheduled for.
                                                                           
        - Bill                                                              

    Hi Everyone,
    I am back from STD. I want to personally thank everyone who contributed
    healing energy during my father's surgery. Everything went so well that
    in spite of the fact that this was major abdominal surgery, my father
    was sent home the very next day and has been recooperating at an
    amazing rate for someone 76 years young....Again, "THANK YOU".
    
    I also want to tell you what a pleasure it was to meet those of you
    that attended the DEJAVU party graciously given by Ro Flaherty.  Only
    sorry that more of you couldn't attend.
    
    to Mary Cabanya  1034.50....unfortunately Mary the closest walk-in's
    to you are in Sedona, Arizona to my knowledge at present. I would be
    happy to assist you as much as I can if you would like to try to work
    with me by long distance, and if I become aware of someone in your area
    I will let you know.
    
    So as to relieve confusion....for those of you who did not attend the
    party I have had a new walk-in while on leave and the name associated
    with this new vibration is Zeffel.
    
    Hope you all had a great 4th of July holiday!
    
    Zeffel

    RE: .53
    
    Hello, Zeffel...
    
    I realize you've been away, and I've been anxious to hear from you
    concerning  some questions I wrote in an earlier note here (1034.43).
    I would like very much to find out if my crystal is 'dead' or if
    there is another type of cleansing which I could use.  
    
    I am very glad to hear of your father coming along so well!  Many
    thanks for your patience with our questions.
    
    Nancy Bowers
    

    Hi Nancy,
    About your crystal, my first advice to you is to ask other people not 
    to touch your crystals. The reason for this is that once you have
    acquired a crystal that vibrates in harmony with you and you have
    become well acquainted with it, it is part of your vehicle. (In other
    words it becomes part of your body in a vibratory sense.) Therefore,
    when someone touches your crystal without permission, it is if they are
    touching your body and violating that space without permission. 
    
    Now as to how to restore this crystal, you have a couple of choices....
    1. you can buy some Sea Salt and place it in a bowl and completely cover
    the crystal for some 3-4 weeks.
    
    2. if you live in a house you can bury the crystal in the earth in your
    yard for 3 weeks and see how it is at the end of that time. If it is 
    better but not quite itself you can rebury it until it is restored
    checking on it periodically. if you live in an apartment and have a
    plant whose pot is large enough to accommodate your crystal that will
    also work (it may take a little longer).
    
    For myself, I would use number 2, as the Earth magnetics will have a 
    faster and more intense effect on your crystal. As a point of
    information, crystals are never dead unless humans cover them with
    things such as polyurethane, therefore cutting off their ability to 
    absorb water (often done to calcites to enhance their appearance...
    to remove this use denatured alcohol and then soak in water for 
    several days.) 
    or they have absorbed so much negativity without cleansing that their 
    frequency is totally negated. (This can easily happen with Rose
    Quartz.)
    
    Can you be more specific with regard to what you would like to know 
    about crystal grids?
    
    Hope this helps.....If you desire help with the cleansing and
    reactivation of your crystal please let me know.
    
    In Light I AM,
    Zeffel
    
    

    zeffel,
    
    Hi, 
    
    Re:  .55
    
    Do you think this process (either) can be done for an opal?
    A friend of mine has an opal which she loves but she believes
    that it is unlucky.  It has been suggested to her to put it 
    away for awhile, but there must be something she can do about it.
    
    I am borrowing my boss' account, if you want to reply to me by mail
    instead of here, I am at XIBITA::CASTRO
    
    Thanks for any info you can give me.
    
    KC

    Hello KC,
    
    My suggestion for the opal is to soak it in salt water....using sea
    salt.  The reason to use sea salt is because of it's crystalline
    structure. Soak it for a few weeks, changing the solution every few
    days. When changing the solution, she can put the stone in fresh water
    for a short while. That should work nicely....opals are especially 
    fond of water because of where and how they grow.
    
    May I ask why this person feels the stone is "bad luck"? Opals carry
    a very unique vibration and are not meant to be worn by everyone....
    your friend may not be ready vibrationally to wear this stone. However,
    if she truly believes the stone is bad luck for her then it will be.
    Thoughts are things and as you believe, so you attract to yourself like
    a magnet that which you believe.
    
    Please let me know how it turns out. Again, if help with this stone is
    needed or desired, please let me know and I will gladly clear the
    stone, recharge it and return it to her.
    
    In Light I AM
    Zeffel	

    RE: .56,.57
    
    Use water....distilled water, but NOT salt water. Even sea salt.
    Opals are water-based stones and salt will dry them out. A dried-out
    opal will shatter with the slightest bump.
    
    The best treatment for opals is to soak them initially in distilled
    water for 72 hours. Take them out and check them under an incandescent
    light, not fluorescent light. I f the colors are vibrant and alive...
    great, but if not, soak them again for another 24 hours. Repeat
    as necessary until the colors are good. Dry the opal with a soft
    cloth and then rub a drop of mineral oil on the opal to seal in
    the moisture.  Use mineral oil...not other oils. Most other oils
    contain impurities or are too light as protection.
    
    A good preventive care for opals is to soak them overnight once
    a month in distilled water and retreat with mineral oil.
    
    These are only my humble suggestions. Everyone should follow their
    own feelings concerning their stones and how to care for them.
    
    John

    John,
    
    Thanks, that sounds like a good idea, better safe than sorry.
    
    I spoke to my friend this morning with Zeffel's suggestions and
    she forgot to mention before that the opal had cracked already.
    
    She also mentioned that the opal was surrounded with emeralds.
    
    Good or bad?
    
    KC
    

    Zeffel,
    
    Sorry, I forgot to answer your question.
    
    Jacqueline (my friend) believes the opal is bad luck because from
    the day she wanted it everything in her life went haywire.
    
    She asked her father to find her an opal ring surrounded with emeralds
    when he went to Japan.  Her husband (now ex) objected strongly to
    her spending that kind of money although she owned her own business
    and worked very hard (she was not putting a strain on their finances).
    Her father had a very hard time finding it and finally was told
    that they don't sent emeralds with opals.  So he had one made. 
    Shortly after she got the ring, her marriage, business, "life in
    general went down the tubes".  The opal also cracked.
    
    I tried to explain to her that it wasn't the opal "causing bad luck"
    that it was just the way things were supposed to be and that there
    is a reason for everything that happens in ones life.  That is my
    belief anyway (maybe she manifested this on her own, I don't exactly
    know the whole story, but from what I understand it was for the
    better of all involved).
    
    Do you think the emeralds should not have been set around the opal?
    
    kc
    

    KC,
    You are very astute.....emeralds and opals are not set together
    purposely because their vibrations are not compatible...they are both
    fire stones, but their fires are diametrically opposed. This is "one"
    of the reasons the opal cracked.
    
    "When you struggle with struggle, you get STRUGGLE!"
    
    Thank you for answering my question.
    
    In Light I AM,
    Zeffel
    

    Zeffel,
    
    What do you suggest she does with the ring?
    
    Keep it; junk it; work with it?
    
    kc
    

    KC,
    If the ring were mine, I would have the opal removed from it and
    something else set in it's place....then I would work to restore
    the opal.
    
    In Light I AM
    Zeffel
    

                                
    Hi Zeffel,
    
    I have an opal with diamonds on either side set in gold and 
    everything seems to be in harmony.  Any insights from your 
    persepctive would be appreciated.  It is a boulder-cut as 
    opposed to a white or black opal.
    
    Cindy 

    Hi Cindy,
    Opals and diamonds go very well together. Their fires are compatible
    therefore, they would be quite harmonious and active. As gold is an
    active metal it would complement the stones well. This piece should
    have great energy.....wear it well and enjoy!  Be sure and keep it
    clean (energy wise that is).
    
    In Light I AM
    Zeffel

    RE:  .55
    
    Hello Zeffel,
    
    I'm glad you're back!  I've had a busy few weeks here, and so just
    read your answer to my questions - thank you!  This did lead to
    more questions...I do own a home, so will try burying it in the
    garden...I'm wondering, should I wrap the crystal in something?,
    or just bury it as is.  Also, after the person touched it as I
    mentioned, it was never the same.  It had been wrapped with gold
    wire for hanging, which somehow disintegrated and fell off, so now
    I have the crystal alone.  After I've cleansed it, I would not want
    to give it to someone to re-wrap so I could wear it on a chain again.
    Is there another way to wear or carry crystals that I may not be
    aware of?
    
    Also, I know nothing about crystal grids, so I was wondering if
    you could tell a bit about it for us novices.  Early in this note,
    the various descriptions of 'copper pyramids, surrounded by stones'
    sounds intriguing.  If it would be too detailed for you to describe
    here, could you suggest some reading material on the subject?
    
    Many thanks for all your help.
    
    Nancy Bowers

    Hi Nancy,
    It is not necessary for you to wrap the crystal before burying it.
    Since it grew and was nurtured in the earth it needs nothing else
    to clothe it. Just mark the spot with something so you will know 
    where to find it again.
    
    Once it is revitalized, if you want to wear it around you neck you
    can buy a small crystal pouch to put it in for that purpose, or
    you can carry it in your pocket; which ever is your preference.
    
    Now about grids....to get you started, a six pointed clear crystal
    grid is a good one. You need six clear quartz terminated crystal as
    close to the same size as possible....they don't have to be too large
    as even the smallest crystal have at least a 3 ft. vibrational
    radius..... the reason for having them close in size is to keep the
    vibrational matrix balanced. They can be single terminated or double
    terminated (however, please don't mix and match..use either one or
    the other), if singly terminated place in a six pointed star large 
    enough for you lay inside of on the floor with the terminations all
    pointing in to the center. Be sure that all of these stones have
    been cleaned prior to setting up the grid.  All the grid to sit about
    20 minutes before you get in.  This enables the stones to create and
    set the vibratory matrix, therefore allowing for maximum benefit to
    you. Try lying in the grid for 30 minutes or so, unless you feel that
    you need to get out prior to that time. 
    
    I will be interested in your comments after you have experienced this.
    
    ENJOY!
    In Light I AM
    Zeffel

    A few spelling corrections.....
    
         paragraph 3.....should read crystals instead of 'crystal'
    
                    .....should read Allow the grid to, instead of 'All'
                             the grid to.....
    
   Zeffel

    	What is the distinction between a "singly terminated as opposed
    to doubly terminated crystal"? 
    
    Joe..

No artist!

		/\	Transmit or Recieve
	       /  \
	       |  |
	       |  | 
	       |  |
	       ~~~~
	Single terminated
				/\	Transmit and Recieve
			       /  \
			       |  |
			       |  |
			       |  |
			       \  /
				\/
			    Double terminated

    	At least in does give an example of what was meant by the terms
    used. I also need to clarify from Zeffel if whether the crystals
    also all have to be of the same type as she/he has mentioned that
    they should be of the same relative sizes. 
    
    Thanks for your artwork..   Joe

    Joe,
    When you are first erecting your own grids it is preferable that the 
    stones used are of the same family and color. This is so you will become
    familiar with the vibrational effect of each family and color on the 
    body. (ie: all clear quartz, all orange calcite, all gold flourite,
    all magnetite, etc). Once you are familiar with the vibrational
    properties and effects of the stones on the body then you can start 
    to mix stones in a grid.
    (ie: clear quartz and gold,blue,purple,green,pink,brown flourites/clear
    quartz and black velvet quartz/rose quartz, blue calcite,green
    fluorite, sugalite, elestials.....etc. 
    
    There is also the coordination of the colors and types of stones to the 
    chakra areas that are to be focused on for clearing. But that is more
    advanced and we can get to that another time.
    
    You can also use simple grids of three stones in a triangular formation
    for things like headache or localized difficulties. If it is for
    headache or pain in the upper body (waist up) you place one stone above
    the head with the termination point up away from the body. The other
    two stones are placed in alignment with the elbows also pointing up.
    If it is for an energy charge and general cleansing you would point 
    the terminations in toward the body. See below:
    
    
     For Pain        / \                For Charge       |
                      |                                 \ /
    
    
               / \        / \                --->                 <---
                |          |
    
    
    
    You would use the same simple grids for the lower part of the body
    (waist down) just turn them upside down.
    
    As a point of interest...you will find that if you have animals
    (cats,dogs) and you start erecting your own grids, your animals will
    love to lay in them, too.
    
    Enjoy!
    In Light I AM
    Zeffel
    

    Re: 1034.72 by Zeffel
    	I am under the impression that the implication is made that
    one should use single terminated as to be able to tell whether one
    is charging/discharging energy to/from oneself. 
    	On another tangent is there a list of generic stones/crytals
    and thier appropiate properties/qualities, for example rose quartz
    would be used to produce relaxation per se (I'm not saying that
    is the case)? 
    
    For now..  Joe

    Zeffel,
    
    Can you give information on building the copper pyramid?  I'd like
    info on building one with and without the base.  After building
    one, can you suggest how far apart the base should be?
    
    Also,  the large crystal I took to Carah's (8lb one), can you think
    of a way I can use it in a grid?  I don't have any others that size,
    but I do have a couple of other fairly large ones and many smaller
    ones.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Joanne
    

.66 Nancy

For the definitive book on crystals; their energy and structure, and
their use in 'light tools' such as wands, breastplates, templates and
grids, look at _The Crystal Connection_ by Randall and Vicki Baer.
Published by Harper and Row ISBN 0-06-250033-3. It has many diagrams of
simple and complex arrangements as well as some detail on the author's
belief of how energy is focused and directed through crystals.

Jay

    Joanne,
    The way I built my pryamid was, I went to Spags and bought (8) 10ft
    lengths of 1/2 inch rigid copper pipe and (8) copper corners. Then 
    because my ceilings are not 10 ft. high, I cut 2 ft. off each pipe.
    (You want all the pipes to be the same length for symmetry). It's
    easiest if you erect the base first using four pipes in a square and
    connecting them with the corners. Then using a ladder or chair you
    can set each pipe for the top of your pryamid into a corner of the 
    base and either use the copper corners to connect your pipes at the
    apex or wire them together, which ever is easiest for where you live.
    If you use the corners you may want to wire them together after you
    have finished contruction just to secure everthing. Voila, one pyramid!
    
    Once you have constructed your pryamid you can place a chair in the
    center of the chamber and use your 8lb. crystal as the central
    generator under the chair, aligning it with the apex, and create a
    matrix around it with smaller crystals.
    
    In Light I AM,
    Zeffel

    .75
    Jay,
    I am happy there is a 'definitive' work on crystals, however, it is my
    contention that the stones themselves are the best teachers since
    each individual has a unique experience with them and each individual
    has a unique reality.
    
    In Light I AM
    Zeffel              

.77 Z

You may be right. I was only replying to the question in .66 which said:

.66>   Also, I know nothing about crystal grids, .................... 
.66>   .
.66>   ..... could you suggest some reading material on the subject?

The book I recommended talks extensively about grids and such and
includes many diagrams of layouts.

Have you seen this book?

Jay

    Thanks Zeffel.  I never thought of the chair.  Great idea and one
    Carah used on me.
    
    Have a great weekend.  I'm going to look for some inexpensive 
    copper tubing and corners.
    
    Joanne
    

        
    Zeffel,
    
    Many people are now experiencing a lag or need to recharge
    themselves.  Is there something happening that is triggering
    this?  
    
    I know people on the path need time for their physical to 
    get adjusted.  There has been mention of the event we are 
    getting to know as the Cosmic Alarm Clock and I've been told
    that there is energy/something entering our world from beyond
    the universe due to the ozone tear and for other reasons, that 
    have an effect on us.  Could you elaborate if this is an area you
    are sensitive to.
    
    Thanks,
    Joanne
    
         

    Joanne,
    
    As you already know, the spin of the Earth is accelerating and the pull
    from the Central Universe is accelerating. The affect that has on your
    physical and interdependant bodies is that it is accelerating the rise of
    any antimatter that you have called to yourself (over the aeons that you
    have incarnated in form)for balancing. (You might know this as the
    balancing of karma or negative energy spirals, etc.). Releasing these 
    energy patterns and balancing your body can require a great expenditure
    of energy on your part, especially if you are not consciously aware of
    what you are trying to accomplish.
    
    This acceleration will continue and get more intense! This is why I
    have been gently advising you all to work on your selves or seek help
    from your favorite holistic practioner. Crystal and tonal adjustments
    are the most beneficial...however, we do not rule out acupuncture, 
    massage, yoga, meditation, ayurveda, etc....whatever, tools you are most 
    comfortable with and that give you the most release for where your 
    consciousness is.  Time is of the ESSENCE. This cycle is not going to
    reverse itself, it is going to continue to go forward at a faster and
    faster pace. You must also go forward at a faster pace if you wish to
    co-create Heaven on Earth, which IS "what we are all here for."
    
    This is the Age of Aquarius that you were all waiting to have dawn...
    it is here now, it is now time to create your new reality, the reality
    of Heaven on Earth. If you focus your attention on clearing whatever
    patterns you notice in "YOURSELF" that are unloving in any shape, way
    or form, either toward yourself or others you will continue to move
    forward. Please do not focus on changing anyone else, just yourself!
    As you change yourself you will change your reality, and the Universe
    will change to accommodate you and your new reality.
    
    In Light I Am,
    Zeffel

RE:
< Note 1034.81 by CIMNET::ATKINSON >
-< CHANGE is what IS NEEDED >-
>    As you already know, the spin of the Earth is accelerating and the pull
>    from the Central Universe is accelerating. The affect that has on your

It is? Last I heard the earth's rotation was slowing. Where is the energy
to speed the earth up coming from?

Perry

    Reply to .82,
    
    The earth is indeed slowing. Perhaps our channeled friend is speaking
    metaphorically and not telling us?

    re: .81
    I was speaking metaphorically....I apologize for not being clear.
    
    Zeffel

    
    There will be a new Holistic Center and Crystal shop opening during 
    the month of August in the Marshfield/Hanover area.
    
    They will be offering fall seminars and classes in such areas as:
    
                 . Stress Management
                 . Crystal Work
    		 . Massage
                 . Tonal Adjustments for Alignment with your Spirit
                 . Bio-electrical Alignment for release of Dysfunctional
                   Patterns.
                 . Creation and use of Stained Glass Healing Paddles
                 . How to be Happy
                   Etc.
    
    The practioners of the center are in the midst of moving to a new larger
    facility and changing their format.
    
    More specifics about name, location, phone # and seminars will be posted 
    as it becomes available...if in the meantime you wish to have more 
    information of any kind feel free to call Alexa Thompson at 1-617-826-7350.
                           

    Zeffel,
    
    I have been reading this file for a while, and was
    pleased to read that you were back from your leave
    (with a healthy father, too!).  But I was surprised
    to read that a new walk-in had occured -- and if you
    don't mind, I have a few questions to ask.
    
    First, is it common for one walk-in to replace another?
    Did you (Zeffel) know in advance about the work that Iissa had
    been doing, so as to continue it or advance it further?
    Do you know where Iissa has gone, and what her mission will
    be (if indeed it is different)? 
    
    I guess I'm asking (in a clumsy fashion) if some walk-ins
    are here for a certain length of time, to accomplish certain
    goals while here, and then move on to allow another to
    walk in -- another who may be more...something...
    
    Excuse my clumsiness, please. I'm trying to find words for
    feelings and sensations that aren't part of my everyday
    vocabulary.
    
    lynn
     

    Re: .86
    
    Hi Lynn,
    I don't mind answering your questions.
    
    >>>>Is it common for one walk-in to replace another?
    
    It is not uncommon for this to occur.....As Iiissa stated in 1034.7
    "some vehicles will have multiple walk-ins over the lifespan of the 
    vehicle as the vibrational rate of that vehicle accelerates. With 
    each walk-in the name and vibration will change. Sometimes the 
    purpose will change as well. The primary purpose usually remains the
    same, although secondary purposes may change, bringing secondary areas
    of expertise to the fore."   
    
    >>>> Did Zeffel know in advance about the work that Iiissa had been
    doing, so as to continue it or advance it further?
    
    Yes, I did know and had been observing Iiissa's progress. Iiissa had
    some very difficult work to do here and did it in a remarkably short
    timespan and with great acumen. I am continuing the work Iiissa was
    doing and am adding a few twists of my own to accelerate this vehicle
    to the next level and all lifestreams I come in contact with.
    
    >>>> Do you know where Iiissa has gone and what her mission will be
    (if indeed it is different)?
    
    Iiissa has returned to Metenarc to continue personal acceleration
    until needed elsewhere.
    
    >>>> Are some walk-ins here for a certain length of time to accomplish
    certain goals while here and then to move on to allow another to
    walk-in --- another who may be more --- something?
    
    We all come with certain goals to accomplish but not really a "length
    of time" to accomplish them in. As "most" of us don't express 
    our process of being in dimensions that are bounded by time and space
    that concept is foreign to us. In third dimensional worlds, time
    and space are applied to keep everything from being experienced all at
    once similtaneously. The reason is that most lifeforms on these worlds
    would not be able to cope with their beingness on all dimensions
    similtaneously because their vibratory rate is too slow to do so and
    their electronic blueprint is not whole in the sense that they are
    male and female beings and not androgenous (therefore, having split off
    parts of themselves which will need to be recovered) beings. Which is
    why the stress at this time on balancing the male and female parts of
    the personality in each being and not subjugating either part.
    
    Once one of us has accomplished our goals, we are then able to return
    to our place of origin to continue our own acceleration until our next
    mission is ready for our expertise. It is comparable to projects here
    at Digital. Then the next expert will come in and take over the project
    to continue to the next phase, etc.
    
    It "usually" follows that each walk-in is of a more accelerated (or
    advanced) vibration. However, there are always exceptions to
    everything. Nothing is static.
    
    I hope this will make things clearer for everyone.
    
    In Light I Am
    Zeffel
      
    

    
    
    re: this topic
    
         This topic is fascinating to me--specifically you, Zeffel.
    I'm not really all that familiar with the concept of 'walk-ins'
    except that as far as I know they are very similar to the channeled
    entities that we are hearing from nowadays. But anyway, I have some
    questions I'm dying to ask of you, if you have the patience:
    1) Where is 'Metenarc'--does it exist in the 3 dimensions of this
    physical universe?, 2) What is Metenarc like, what kind of place
    is it?, 3) For the skeptical part of us, how could we know if you
    and other walkins are (if you'll excuse the expression) 'for real'?
    4) How many walkins are around now--10 or 10,000,000...? 5) Do you
    know anything about these UFO abductions that seem to be pretty
    common nowadays? 6) (Kind of an abstract question--) What is the true
    nature of causality? 
    
    
    
    Roy
    (very-curious-and-fascinated)

    re: .88 (Roy)
    
         Excuse my butting in, please.  I will certainly not invade
    Zeffel's place to answer your questions, I just want to clarify
    a point at the beginning of your reply.  That has to do with the
    similarity between walk-ins and channeled entities.  The difference
    is large...a walk-in apparently claims the body and is then 
    responsible for it for it's "lifetime" (or until the next similar
    "take-over.")  A channeled entity simply "visits" through a body
    and does not necessarily even borrow it (depending on the type
    of channeling.)  
    
          Funny, but from my point of view, Zeffel and Iiisa's descriptions
    of a human body as a vehicle seem a little distant.  Sounds kind of
    like an old carcass some"body" leaves behind and some other body
    comes along and takes...kind of like a hermit crab (I think that's
    what they're called.)  This still fits within my beliefs of reality
    creation, by the way, just makes me feel a bit less in control than
    I like to be (which may be a blessing, anyway.)
    
    Frederick
    

    re: .88 (Roy  very-curious-and-fascinated)
    
    Hello Roy,
    
    1034.4 will explain to you what a walk-in is.
    
    >>>>Where is Metenarc --- does it exist in the 3 dimensions of this 
    physical universe?
    
    Roy, as Iiissa stated in 1034.21, Metenarc is in the Central Universe.
    It is not a 3rd dimensional planetary body....if you were able to view
    it from Earth (which you are not) it would appear like a sun to you.
    
    >>>>What is Metenarc like, what kind of place is it? 
    
    
    Metenarc has a neon light spectrum as its primary spectrum. It has what
    you call mountains, valleys, bodies of water, we have lifeforms that
    would be equivalent to your trees and shrubs. It is also very cavernous
    and we have habitants above and below the surface. But things are
    constantly changing because we exist and experience things in totality.
    In other words we are able to exist in and experience all dimensions
    similtaneously....therefore, we can choose to be present everywhere
    at once or focus our consciousness in any given dimension, so as you
    can see, things and landscapes can change at any given interval.	
    
    >>>>For the skeptical part of us, how could we know if you and other
    walkins are (if you'll excuse the expression) 'for real'?
    
    You can't....it's like everything else here in your world, you either
    believe it or you don't. And that is what creates your reality. As 
    Iiissa so aptly stated in other replies, it is of no consequence to us 
    whether you believe it or not. My suggestion to you if you want a good
    indicator is to run it by your heart and see what heart's truth is.
    
    >>>>How many walk-ins are around now---10 or 10,000,000.?
    
    I know there are many...but an exact count...that I cannot give you...
    It is not part of my purpose to keep track of those coming and going
    from this planetary body...anyway, I'm not sure it is important to
    know.
    
    >>>>Do you know anything about these UFO abductions that seem to be 
    pretty common nowadays?
    
    Whether you are all aware of it or not lifestreams from other planetary
    systems have been coming to and going from Earth for many aeons. They
    have been watching and at times studying progress here on all levels
    including the human vehicle. I can not tell you why abductions are 
    currently taking place or by whom. What I can tell you is that what
    these people are experiencing is not a figment of their imagination, it
    is quite real. It is my opinion that they are interested in observing
    changes and differences in DNA and RNA helixes and other cellular
    activities of the human vehicle. 
    
    
    >>>>(Kind of an abstract question--) What is the true nature of
    causality?
    
    Being!
    
    
    
    In Light I AM
    Zeffel

    re: .89
    
    Frederick,
    
    Your "body", as you call it is the vehicle in which your light
    body navigates in this dimension. For those of us who do not normally
    have need for physical bodies in our inherent reality, they are no 
    different than a car or plane or any other vehicle that you have
    created to transport you where you want to go. Hope you like your
    vehicle, since you created it.
    
    As for walk-ins "taking over" a body....I would like to state
    categorically...that we do not forcible take another lifestreams
    vehicle ever, at anytime. We do not do anything if it is not done in
    Love and Free Will.  As one essence separates from the vehicle the 
    other immediately connects so as to cause no damage to any of the 
    systems. And as Iiissa explained this is agreed upon before the
    original lifestream's incarnation into this vehicle.
    
    Incidentally, no offense was taken from your statements, it
    is simply that you imply by those words something that is not truth. 
    
    Less control would be a blessing Frederick, as control sets up some
    pretty unsightly patterns in your electrical field. Being is
    preferable to control.
    
    In Light I AM
    Zeffel 
                                                                
    
     

    re: .91 (Zeffel)
    
         We need to take care of the use of the word control.  As I used
    it in my earlier reply I connoted the sense of domination or
    expoitation, etc.  Clearly taking "control" as in being responsible
    or in charge or aware or conscious, etc. is NOT what I meant.  The
    former are positions of negative ego, the latter are positions of
    positive and harmonious reality creation.  I am certain we do not
    disagree over this.  I think it is clear that I was simply lamenting
    my truth that negative ego plays far too important a role in my
    life.
    
         As for vehicles, etc., my truth is that once this one that I
    am driving has served its purpose for me I don't really care what
    happens to it, assuming it doesn't have a burdensome impact on others.
    I have no need to see it cryogenically preserved for some demented
    future reason nor see any need to slow down its natural decay or
    decomposition for purposes of worship or ego, etc. for myself or
    for others, either.  Donating it to "science" has never been real
    comfortable for me, for whatever reason, although I suppose if 
    someone could utilize parts of it for their own life, I would not
    be opposed.  Otherwise, let it go to "ash!"  But since I can understand
    this, I can also understand someone saying, "I am ready to move on
    now and here is my body if you really want it...have fun!" then doing
    exactly that.  This ties in with the concept of walk-in as has been
    described.  Since I also believe that our appearance on this physical
    plane in this particular reality is based on whatever duration of
    time we desire, be it for a few hours or days or years, it is no more
    odd than someone who takes over a "vehicle" for a few hours or a few
    days or a few years.  The difference to me is that the usual process
    is that we normally are the architect and contractor, not just the
    occupants.  I don't see this as wrong or bad or anything, just not
    something I would do at this time (although maybe I wouldn't mind
    moving into Kim Bassinger's "vehicle" for a while ;-) )  I do think
    it is true that we put too much emphasis on the body sometimes, but
    I also believe that the body is an important part of our "SELF" and
    needs to be respected...along with the other parts of SELF (intellect,
    emotion and psychic/spiritual parts.)
       
         So, I'm not saying much here...just talking.  Incidentally,
    Zeffel, the "vehicle" you are occupying and driving resembles one
    that I was "married to" for some time.  :-)
    
    Frederick
    

    
    
    Forgive me, Frederick, but from your statement "I wouldn't mind moving
    into Kim Bassinger's 'vehicle' for a while" should I infer that you are
    definitely into ....auto-erotism?
    
    Gloria 

    ...nyuk nyuk
    
    -Arthur
    (Fasten that Seat Belt Frederick! B-} )

    .92 (Frederick)
    
    Thank you for clearing up the meaning of your statements in .89
    and you are correct in stating that we are not in disagreement
    over the positive or negative connotations of "control". 
    
    What I was trying to convey to you by saying that "being is preferable
    to control" was that if you are in tune with the Creative force
    (Universal flux or whatever you call it, even God), you have no need 
    to be "in control" of yourself or anything else (or even think about it)
    because you are in balance and in harmony with everything in 
    your environment (being). Therefore, things flow naturally without
    the need of expending energy in taking control, or thinking about
    controlling any part of life....hence release of negative ego.
    For if you are in tune with the Creative force, there is no space for
    negative ego, there is only space for Divine Ego. 
    
    As for "(although maybe I wouldn't mind moving into Kim Bassinger's
    "vehicle" for a while ;-) )"  I'm not sure you stated that exactly
    the way you meant it....and if you did state it exactly as you meant
    it, I don't think you'd find it that interesting. Do you really think
    you'd like being a woman?
    
    Frederick, since you placed a smiling face after saying "the 'vehicle'
    you are occupying and driving resembles one that I was "married to"
    for some time. " I choose to take it that you meant that as a
    compliment and I accept it as such.  Thank you. 
    
    Light and Joy to you,
    Zeffel
    
    

    Hi Zeffel,
    
    Just in case you are wondering how Frederick knew what your
    'vehicle' looked like the reason is I had sent him copies of
    the pictures taken at the party.  There was a lovely one of
    you talking with Dan McLaughlin.
    
    Ro
    

    
    re .96
    
    Thanks for letting me know Ro, I thought perhaps Frederick had
    been astral traveling, or had mastered bi-location.
     
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Joanne,
    How did you make out constructing your pyramid??? If you finished
    it, what have been your experiences with it?
    
    
    In Light
    Zeffel
    
    

       Yes, I only saw a photo-image of your "vehicle", Zeffel, so
    it doesn't tell me a lot of details.  No, astral travel is not
    something I am consciously doing (yet.)
       And as for Kim's vehicle, well, I have been a woman in other
    lifetimes, just like everyone else (and have been able to "recollect"
    one lifetime all by myself.)  From a woman's point of view, it might not be
    that shabby being in her "vehicle" especially if one wants attention
    from men ("all right you guys, at attention!")  On the other hand,
    if men are a nuisance, maybe it would be a drag (no pun intended.  Ha!)
    But, I probably meant it from my sexual male point of view...(you
    really need to bone up on humor, Zeffel!)  :-)  Actually, if I had been
    more intellectual, I probably would have used Deborah Norville's name
    (very pretty and very smart.)  Get it, get it?  Just where are the
    Scorpio's or pseudo-Scorpios when you need them?!
    
    Frederick
    

    Zeffel,
    
    I didn't get the materials for the pyramid.  I went looking for
    tubing, but at the prices I found, I figured I'd wait for a sale
    or until I could get to a place like Spags or Building 19.  Besides
    that, 10 feet is bigger than my car.
    
    Thanks for the info.  All I need now is a super sale flyer.
    
    Joanne
    

    re: .98 <Dirty Harry meets Sally> 
    
>>>>Yes, I only saw a photo-image of your "vehicle", Zeffel, so it doesn't
    tell me a lot of details.
    
**** And what details would you like to know Frederick?
    
    
>>>>No, astral travel is not something I am consciously doing (yet.)
    
****Too bad, since you do it quite easily when your vehicle rests
    (sleeps).
    
    
>>>>And as for Kim's vehicle, well, I have been a woman in other lifetimes,
    just like everyone else (and have been able to "recollect" one life-
    time all by myself.)  From a woman's point of view, it might not be
    that shabby being in her "vehicle" especially if one wants attention
    from men ("all right you guys, at attention!") On the other hand, if
    men are a nuisance, maybe it would be a drag (no pun intended. Ha!)
    But, I probably meant it from my sexual male point of view...(you
    really need to bone up on humor, Zeffel!) :-)  Actually, if I had been
    more intellectual, I probably would have used Deborah Norville's name
    (very pretty and very smart.) Get it, get it? Just where are the 
    Scorpio's or pseudo-Scorpios when you need them?!
    
**** I surmized that you meant it from your male sexual point of view,
    but I thought I'd let YOU say that. I have no problem with humor, and
    in fact I find your humor quite good most of the time Frederick.
    However, I don't like to misconstrue your intent.  It's not that we
    lack humor, it's just that ours differs from yours partly because we
    experience more emotions than you do.
    
    And as for "bone up"....(if I use as a point of reference all the 
    inuendos you have made in this note and .92 re: Kim B.) I would have to
    say that in this vehicle I have the wrong plumbing for that. Better luck
    next time!
    
    In Light,
    Zeffel          
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
    Er...shouldn't we appoint someone to bestow the "Queen-of-Scorpiosity-
    Award" to Zeffel?
    
    ;-)
    
    Guy
    

    Joanne,
    
    The next time you speak with Carah you might ask her where she got 
    her copper pipes. I know that she and Maeson found a place with good
    prices someplace in Boston.
    
    Your next best bet is Spags....they were very reasonable just a few
    weeks ago.
    
    In Light,
    Zeffel

    re: Zeffel
      
         Guy is right.  You are hereby named Honorary Scorpio of the 
    DEJAVU month with all honors and entitlements bestowed herewith!
    (Since you weren't really "born" it'll do, won't it?)
    The humor in your reply suits me fine, but then maybe I'm an
    extremist from other points of view.  So, Sally, do you feel
    lucky?  You should ask yourself, how many shots did I fire?
    Are there any left?  Go a-head, make my day!
    
    Frederick
    
    p.s.
       Joanne, when you finish building your pyramid, in honor of Zeffel
    you could call it the Zeffel Tower or the Leaning Tower of Zeffel.
    
         

    Frederick,
    
    Never thought about a name.  Will give your suggestions some
    thought; however, but the time I get it together Zeffel may
    have had another walk-in and the names you mentioned won't
    be appropriate.
    
    Joanne

    re: .103 Frederick and Guy
    
    Thank you for the Honorary title 'gentlemen'. I would appreciate
    it if you would elusidate on the honors and entitlements.
    
    And 'Harry' for your information I was "born" many millenia ago,
    just not in the manner you are currently accustomed to.
    
    Well Harry, I know exactly how many shots I fired and there are
    plenty more where those came from when and if needed. Tred softly
    with "go 'a-head' make my day".....you might get exactly what you
    ask for but not quite in the way you intended! Phasers have many 
    settings!
    
    With regard to the tower, my preference is: "La Tour Zeffel"!
    Merci beaucoup.
    
    In Light,
    Zeffel
    

    re:  .85 (a possible place of interest)
    
    In the above mentioned note I spoke about a new Holistic Center opening
    in the Marshfield/Hanover area.
    
    The name of the Center is "LifeSkills Healing Arts Center" and it is
    located at 439 Columbia Road (Routes 139 & 53), Hanover, MA 02339...
    phone number: 617-826-7350. Hours are: M - F, 10 A.M.-9 P.M., Sat
    10 A.M.-5:30 P.M., Sun. 12 noon - 5 P.M. In conjunction with the
    Healing Center they also have an ASTARTE Book Store featuring over
    2,000 titles, crystals, gifts and artwork.
    
    Services currently being offered at LifeSkills include Alcohol and
    Substance Abuse Counseling, Cancer Support Groups, Applied Kinesiology,
    Crystal and Energy Work, Nutritional Profiles, Eating Disorders,
    Divorced Men's Support Group, Awareness groups, Colonics, Parenting
    Classes, several types of Therapeutic Massage, Psychotherapy and Family
    Counseling and Stress Management.
    
    If you are a wholistic practioner who would be interested in sharing
    space at LifeSkills call or write for their free brochure and come to
    the OPEN HOUSE on Sunday, September 24th, from 12-5 P.M.
    
    Seminars being offered in September are:
    
    INTRODUCTION TO COLON HEALTH
    Tuesday, Sept. 5, 1989 7:30 p.m. This introductory evening will cover 
    basic anatomy and physiology of the digestive system and the history
    and theory of colon hygiene.
    
    Fee: $10.00     Theresa D. Monahan, R.N., Lic. M.T.
    
    
    EATING DISORDERS
    Wednesday, September 6, 1989 7:00 p.m. Eating disorders are on the
    rise. Why? Find out the warning signs, preventative measures and what
    to do if you suspect you or a loved on has a problem. Group to form.
    
    Fee: $10.00     Joan Cundari, M.S., R.D.
    
    
    INTRODUCTION TO REBIRTHING
    Friday, September 8, 1989  7:00 p.m.  Come learn about the history and
    elements of Rebirthing, a process of attunement of body - mind - and
    spirit that uses breathing, guided relaxation and other natural tools
    for living well.
    
    Free                 Louise Brule, Dan Brule
    
    
    TOUCH FOR HEALTH (APPLIED KINESIOLOGY)
    Fri.,Sat.,Sun. September 8,9,10
    Fri. 6-9 p.m., Sat. & Sun. 10 a.m. - 5 p.m.  Are you ready to take
    responsibility for your health and help others do the same? The focus
    in this class will be on learning to use the body's own language of
    muscle testing to derive specific information about imbalances,
    structural, emotional and nutritional. Then we will use specific touch
    reflexes, including acupressure to balance muscle tone and energy flow
    throughout the body to improve postural balance and reduce physical and
    mental pain and tension. Class will also include determining allergies,
    diet, how to speed up healing when sick or injured, surrogate testing
    those who are very young or old, injured and the very strong. Plus
    much, much more.  24 C.E.U.'s will be given to Mass. Nurses Assoc., and 
    LPN, dentists and hygienits.  All Welcome. Test included.
    
    Fee: $175.00      Jacqueline Helvitz, L.M.T. Certified Instructor
    
    
    LEARNING TO FOLLOW YOU HEART THRU MEDITATION AND CREATIVE VISUALIZATION
    Monday, Sept. 11, 1989 7:00 p.m.
    This ongoing group explores diverse methods of meditation and creative
    visualization, for finding inner peace and self fulfillment. Some
    exercises include clearing of the energy centers, releasing stress,
    programming yourself for success, overall healing of self, chanting of
    affirmations and contacting your spirit guides. Individuals will learn
    how to tap into the infinite source of wisdom and energy within
    themselves. (Every Monday)
    
    $10.00          Joanne Liljeholm
    
    
    I will continue with September offerings tomorrow...
    
    In Light I AM,
    Zeffel
    
    
    
    

    
    Hi All,
    
      I have been following this note for some time,trying to get a feel
    for the emotional mood,and,acceptance around Zeffel. I have sent two
    off line mail messages at different times,with no answers from Zeffel.
      This whole thing around Ouija,channeling,and walk-ins,has me very
    interested in getting answers,but,I still havnt come to any solid
    conclusions. In my work with the Ouija,I have had some interesting
    things happen,but,not to the point of convincing myself of its
    reality. I have the same feelings in reguard to channeled entities,and,
    walk-ins. I havnt been able to resolve my doubts on the subject. No
    entity has offered any proof of their existance,in fact,they avoid
    anything that would challenge it by carefully thought out replies to
    evade the issue. If these entities are so advanced,why dont they offer
    answers to many of our problems? Why not give our scientists answers to
    improve our lives in a physical sense? Zeffel,you have said that you
    dont need to prove anything,and,you dont care if people dont believe
    you are as you say. Well,to me,that is a cop-out,and,causes me to think
    you are a fake. I would really like to know,but,you havnt shown a way
    for that. I will ask you again,if,you would discuss with me,the
    Ouija,and the principles that apply in its use. I would also ask that
    you would tell me a way in which I can find out first hand of the world
    beyond,other than death :^) ,of course. I ask these things
    sincerely,and,dont wish to appear hostle,but,frustrated perhaps.
    Thanks.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Good Morning Michael,
    
    I do believe that you sent Iiissa mail on June 20th and had sent mail
    prior to that....both of which were during my leave.....I had responded
    asking for you to resend your questions because some of my mail had
    been compressed. You responded with the following on July 7th:
    
    "Jean or Zeffel,
    
    I am curious about what you know about Ouija boards. What causes them
    to function, and, who or what we are communicating with? Is the human
    race decendants of a race from another world? Anything you can tell me
    about this would be appreciated greatly. Also, tell me more about
    Zeffel. Thank you.
    
    Peace,
    Michael "
    
    The following is my reply to you of July 7th:
    
    "Michael,
    
    Regarding the Ouija Board...when you use these kinds of tools you are
    accessing the Astral planes...while you are concentrating you are
    bringing your brain into an altered state known as Alpha and opening
    your chakras and electromagnetic field. You therefore create a light
    link for the discarnate entities in the Astral Planes to attach to.
    They give you information (which may or may not be valid) in exchange
    for your light and vibrational energy.
    
    As for the human race... most lifestreams that are currently embodied
    on this planet are not originally from this planet. Nowhere is it
    engraved in stone that any lifestream must accomplish all their growth
    or whatever you choose to call it on any one planetary body.
    
    What would you like to know about Zeffel?
    
    In Light I AM, 
    Zeffel "
    
    
    Michael,
    You have not written back to tell me what more you would like to know
    about Zeffel.
    
    Michael we do not offer answers to many of the problems on this plane
    because first we did not create them. The collective consciousness of
    the lifestreams on this planet created them. And second, we are not
    cosmically given authority to directly interfere with the evolution 
    of the planet or the lifestreams hereon.  Finding these answers is 
    part of what All of YOU are doing here....If you can create it, you
    can uncreate it. If you all got in touch with Your Divine Presence
    and aligned with the Universal Consciousness as the creative force
    made you, we would not need to be here to assist you in the first place.
    
    You think I am copping out when I say I don't need to prove anything
    to anyone....what about humanity's copping out on who you really are and
    what you can really do and accomplish. If you aren't copping out then why
    do you need me, or any of the other Ascended lifestreams who are trying
    to assist you, to give your world the answers on how to fix the 
    problems humanity has created for itself thru the misqualification 
    of energy and light?  
    
    We avoid nothing, it is humanity who avoids looking at and taking 
    responsibility for what you as a mass consciousness have created. 
    You point the finger at us because we are new and different to 
    your reality and place the onnis of proof on us. Well Michael, we 
    have paid our dues and therefore have earned our place in creation, 
    NOW it is time for Earth's humanity to pay theirs! We have loving 
    volunteered to assist you in accordance with the creative plan. If 
    you do not want our assistance, that is your perrogative...we do 
    not wish to intrude!
    
    If you want to find out first hand about the world beyond then I would
    suggest that you find someone to instruct you in conscious astral
    travel. In the meantime meditate.
    
    You do appear hostile Michael and I lovingly offer you the suggestion
    to turn inward and examine yourself before firing at others....to
    quote Jesus the Christ..."let he who is without blemish cast the first
    stone".  Your personal piece of Divinity (Your God Presence) has all 
    the answers you will ever need, learn how to get them for yourself!
    
    In Light I AM
    Zeffel
    
    

    
    Zeffel,
       Thank you for your response. I apologize if I seemed hostile to
    you,I assure you that I donot consider you my enemy. I am only seeking
    answers to many questions. 
       I donot understand how it is,that,you are here to help us,yet in
    your response,it seems you want us to help ourselves. What kind of help
    are you offering? 
       My intentions were not to point a finger at anyone,since,I am
    willing to accept responsibility for myself and what I do in life. I
    have no reason to rest it on others shoulders. I was simply asking for
    verification of what you claim,as I would ask a doctor to show me his
    degree for verifying his claim to be a doctor. I am not so nieve,that,I
    would believe you,simply because you say so! Even Jesus Christ showed
    that he was as he said,by performing great miracles. Yet you offer just
    your word.
       I would be the first to admit I am not perfect,and,I am not making
    any judgement as to your character. I am,however,trying to get enough
    information to judge for myself,if,you are as you say.
       I would be grateful if you could give me some information on astral
    travel,and,how it can be accomplished.
       
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Good Morning Michael,
    
    Why are you confused about my being here to facilitate humanity in 
    helping yourselves.....have you read Iiissa's and my replies in this 
    file? I believe they are self explanatory and would reduce your 
    confusion.....
    
    A degree does not a doctor make...it simply states that he/she has 
    completed all the currently necessary requirements of the educational
    structure. And as for Jesus...he did many "miracles" in your frame of
    reference, but was not accepted for who and what he was by the vast 
    majority of humanity of his day nonetheless! Placing the burden of
    "proving" on a lifestream causes them to engage the negative energy
    spirals of those crying for the proof. (Carah and I refer to these
    energy spirals and blockages as "boogies") These boogies keep one from
    knowing instinctively what is truth in their personal reality. They
    block the "bullshitometer" known as your heart from getting accurate
    readings from everything that enters your environment and personal
    reality.  If your heart were open and unblocked you would have no need
    to "judge" anyone or anything. "Judgement" is not a correct
    qualification of divine energy. You would simply know from one moment 
    to the next in a continuum what was truth for you.
    
    I will address the subject of astral travel with you off-line.
    
    In Light I AM,
    Zeffel
    
    

    
    Zeffel,
    
      I am confused,because,you say you are here to help,yet,when I ask you
    about solving problems,you say it is up to us. Well,to me,that is a
    contradiction. I used the doctor example to explain my thought
    process,not to discuss whether or not having a degree would qualify him
    for the title. I would feel a lot better knowing he had the
    knowledge,than not. 
      It seems you are not willing to show evidence of your claim. After
    all,if I claimed to be Jesus reborn,I think people would want some
    evidence from me. I dont think any of the channeled entities will
    either,just like the Ouija,they will not offer proof.
      I would be willing to talk off-line about astral travel,but,why not
    here. Perhaps others would be interested in what you have to say?
    
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Good Morning Michael,
    
    It would appear from your replies that this entire subject is beyond
    your current perception & reality; and that you simply insist on 
    being closed and argumentative.  I will no longer engage with your 
    energy spirals as it is counterproductive and a negative qualification 
    of my energy.
    
    As for astral travel, it is my opinion that you are not ready for
    that at this time. If others are interested, I will be most happy to
    address their interest off-line.
    
    In Light I AM,
    Zeffel

    Mike
    
        What would you consider as "proof?"  To prove some of the 
    claims made by the supposedly-disincarnate would be very difficult
    if not impossible.  Moreover, there is reason to believe that what
    some of them have said would be true...let me cite some possibilities.
    One, if you were to discover that so-and-so is from a level you
    believe to be superior, would you or would you not be tempted to
    "sit at their feet" and give your power away to them as many do
    with various gurus?  If so-and-so is as they say, i.e., loving, etc.,
    then they would not do this.  They would not want to usurp your
    power, they would rather see you come into your own.  Two, another
    possibility is that the "proof" would never be sufficient (mentioned
    in other notes) and all your time and the "other's" time would be
    in a constant ego game of proof/belief.  Three, it *is* possible
    (and I believe likely) that since we humans have a tendency to 
    want a "higher power" or "authority figure", etc. to do things for
    us (another very definite negative ego ploy) that proof would consist
    of having this power do whatever it is we want done.  As Zeffel pointed
    out (and I am not speaking for her) it is within the realm of our
    reality to do virtually everything without aids of any sort.  As our
    bodies come to depend on certain drugs which could otherwise be 
    produced by the body, so would we lose our abilities to find the power
    to alter our reality by ourselves.  
    
        I think there is a major responsibility taken by anything/anyone
    who is in a position to "teach."  As has been pointed out in here
    before, being of service to others is the most difficult focus
    (purpose) to undertake [this according to Lazaris, for one] because
    it walks the line...that line being the line of the martyr ("Oh, look
    what I have to do for them!") or the arrogant ("See how dumb they are
    and how smart I am!")  Somewhere in between is the road of helping
    without ego attachment.  No one of real responsibility and integrity
    wants followers...they want equals.  It would be massively lonely to
    be above all others and to have them always bowing to him/her/it.
    Being worshipped is not what someone of integrity, love, caring, etc.
    would want.  This is perhaps the main reason why I am anti-religion...
    because of the idea of worship.  As long as something is on the level
    of worship to us, we have not "arrived."  This does not rule out 
    respect or love, of course.  Nor does it rule out friendship.  All
    of our friends are not dumber than we are, nor vice versa.  But many
    are either without affecting our affection.
      
        Mike, you must decide whether or not you wish to believe.  It is
    entirely possible that either voice (yours or the other party's) is
    coming from ego.  As long as the doubt remains, then make your
    decisions accordingly.  I don't know if I believe Zeffel or not, and
    it doesn't really matter to me...what matters to me is how this
    energy interacts with me.  No different than how anyone's energy
    interacts with mine...and this is especially easy to do in this
    electronic medium.  If Beverly Beaver tells me she's a brain surgeon
    and billionaire but still manages to communicate lovingly with me,
    I will base my relationship more on the communication than on the
    "facts" of her "history."  This in spite of the fact that I would 
    probably not believe that she is a brain surgeon NOR a billionaire.
    We cannot judge others,,,they must act out of their own sense of
    who they are.  Despite however disillusioned we think they are.  Should
    they ask for help in determining their identity, we do the best we
    know how, coming from our own sense of integrity.
    
         Not too satisfying, I know, but perhaps it's best to let it go.
    
    Frederick
    

    Re.112 (Atkinson)
    
    Zeffel,
    
    I found your last comment both judgmental and condescending.
    
    What you say may be true, however there are better and more productive 
    ways of saying the very same thing and not burning bridges.  There is
    no need to appear superior or 'more advanced' in order to make your
    point.
    
    In the hope of unity, humility and peaceful coexistence,
    
    Cindy
                     

    
    Fredrick,
    
       Well,thats a good question. What would I consider proof? I guess
    that would depend on what the entity says they are. If one is claiming
    they have great knowledge,and,has lived many lives,and,are advanced
    beings,I would say they could come up with something that would be
    definite proof. I have worked the Ouija board for the last 3 years or
    so. In my conversations with JIM,he indicated he talked with a lot of
    other people on other boards. So,I challenged him to give me proof. I
    told him to tell the person on one of his boards to call me on the
    phone with a password that only I knew,and,to tell me the password and
    that JIM asked them to call me. Well,so far it hasnt happened,and,if it
    does,I will be convinced. This is the kind of proof I would look
    for,something that there would be no question.
      I see more and more of these channeled entities showing up,with some
    message. They charge great amounts of money for people to hear them
    speak. I dont see it as being right. If they were to open the sessions
    to anyone,with no fee,but,accept donations,I would be more trusting. In
    my conversations with JIM,we talked about this. He indicated that those
    religous organizations that were corrupt and using the money for
    personal gain,would be chastised severely. He indicated that out of all
    the preachers,that,Billy Grahmn,was most highly favored,since he doesnt
    use the money for personal gain,but,offers his service free to all. He
    accepts donations and uses it to pass the word through-out the world. I
    respect him greatly for this. He is truely who he says he is,thru
    example. I am who I am,not by my words,but,by my actions. I am a man of
    peace,I truly work toward that end. I sometimes step out of
    bounds,but,try to get back in. This is mans hope. 
    
      Zeffel,
    
      I can see that I probably will not come to the point where I would
    feel I had been given the answers I am looking for. If I am giving you
    the perception that you have stated,it was not my intentions to do so.
    I sense it is time for me to stop pursuing this. Im sorry you are not
    willing to talk on Astral Travel,I was anxious to hear what you had to
    say.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    re:           <<< Note 1034.114 by UBRKIT::PAINTER "One small step..." >>>
                        -< Please, don't do this here. >-
    
>>    I found your last comment both judgmental and condescending.
    
    
    I, for one, thought that Zeffel's comments were entirely appropriate
    in the context in which they were given...
    
    I'm really disappointed at how judgemental some of those
    who swim in the newage are towards unorthodox experiences.
    
    /bruce
     unorthodoxy, even in the newage, is 
    not looked upon kindly

Mike,
     And many people don't believe that something for free is worth
    anything.  Many people believe that they must pay handsomely for
    what they purchase for it to be valuable.  Of course many sellers of
    information take advantage of this, not only those with occult information.
     
	Jesus did not expressly perform miracles to "prove" who he was.
In fact, when he did heal someone, he asked them not to tell anybody about it.
I think this is because if Pilot had known for sure who Jesus was, The entire 
"test" that Jesus was putting himself through, would have been foiled. 
The prophecy would not have come true.
One other point, It definitely is up to each individual to seek help and 
knowledge in any manner that they can, and is is also up to each individual to 
have the compassion to assist in them  that knowledge or help in any way we 
can--even if that help is to say " I cannot help with that" which is sometimes 
better than giving opinions which may end up being not so helpful.  Refuse no 
one who sincerely seeks help.

ZEFFEL,

From what i read, Mike was asking some very valid questions especially in 
trying to understand Astral travel (projection).  How could you say mike was
argumentative when he apologized for **seeming** to come on so strongly?
You are the one who states that you have opinions "...it is my opinion that 
you are not ready for that at this time."  Who are you to decide what another 
person is ready or not ready for?  Sure seems to me that you are displaying 
exactly what you accuse Mike of being-closed and argumentative. If you are not 
capable of informing him on a subject, just say so.  None of the Masters who 
lived on the earth turned away those who were sincere in their seeking, Are 
you better than them that you can reject someones honest search for help?
If you feel something is beyond someone elses "current perceptions and 
reality" perhaps it is because of your inability to communicate that concept 
or perception in a manner that can be understood by those persons.  It is a 
two-edged sword.  

in 'Light' you are?  Even if you have to say so yourself (:'>

What light? whose light?  I've followed the evolution of this word for over 15 
years.  It started out "In the Light of Christ", evolved to "Christ's light"
then eventually became the single word "Light", If indeed this last word has 
any similarity to the phrase I believe it started out as many years ago.


Just Nobody,
Ernie

    I agree with Bruce.  Zeffel did not appear to be judgemental or 
    condescending, but rather seemed to compassionately, but firmly 
    refuse to continue with a no win situation.  I did not view her
    reply as superior or attacking, but rather as a gentle release.  
    But then each of us will read her reply through our own 'perspective'.
    
    Ro
    

    re: .113  (Frederick)
    
    Thank you Frederick for your unbiased input I feel you may have 
    cleared up some muddy water for Michael, at least that is 
    my hope....I am grateful!
    
    
    re: .114  (Cindy)
    
    You are entitled to your feelings. However, I am also entitled to
    mine and as I had already explained about the process that ensues 
    when one is engaged in "proving" I would not have anticipated this
    response from you.  
    
    I have endeavored from the beginning of my participation in this 
    file to treat all the readership and writership as equals and in
    a loving manner as we are all one. I do not regard myself as being
    superior, just at a different juncture in the continuum. It may
    also be helpful for you to know that where I am from we do not use 
    language as you know it. All our communication is done by what you call 
    telepathy in light pictograms. Therefore, I may at times make
    unfortunate choices in word combinations...but "I" do not feel that is
    the case here.
    
    
    re: .115 (Michael)
    
    I am sure Michael that you will eventually come to the point where you
    will have the answers that you are currently looking for, and then
    there will be more questions as is always thus. I would again lovingly
    suggest that learning to turn inward (meditate) and listen to the voice
    of your Divine self would be the most constructive activity for you
    now.....I am curious to know Michael, why none of your communications
    comment on any of the suggestions or information I gave you, but only
    on what you feel I did not give you.  Would you please address this?	
    
    Regarding Astral Travel, it is not an unwillingness on my part to 
    discuss this topic in this forum, but rather a sense of responsilbity
    in providing information on a potentially dangerous activity for 
    someone who may not be ready for it's undertaking in the conscious
    state. I may decide to discuss it with you at a later date but will
    reserve that decision for now.
    
    
    re: .116 (Bruce)
    
    Thank you Bruce for your vote of confidence and your understanding, 
    it is greatly appreciated.
    
    	
    In Light,
    Zeffel
    

Re.119 (Atkinson)
    
Zeffel,
    
>    You are entitled to your feelings. However, I am also entitled to
>    mine and as I had already explained about the process that ensues 
>    when one is engaged in "proving" 

Yes, I realize there is only so far one can go with the intellect.

>   I would not have anticipated this response from you.  

I think we're in mutual agreement here then.  I didn't see Michael's 
notes as being argumentative, which was why I was surprised at your 
response (hence the reaction behind my own note).  But as Ro said, 
it's all in one's perspective.  At least it is good we can discuss
things like this here without flames, etc., unlike other notes
conferences, no?

>    I have endeavored from the beginning of my participation in this 
>    file to treat all the readership and writership as equals and in
>    a loving manner as we are all one. I do not regard myself as being
>    superior, just at a different juncture in the continuum. 

OK.

>   It may also be helpful for you to know that where I am from we do not 
>   use language as you know it. All our communication is done by what you 
>   call telepathy in light pictograms. 

Explanation accepted.

>   Therefore, I may at times make unfortunate choices in word combinations
>   ...but "I" do not feel that is the case here.

OK.    
    
> re: .115 (Michael)

>    .....I am curious to know Michael, why none of your communications
>    comment on any of the suggestions or information I gave you, but only
>    on what you feel I did not give you.  Would you please address this?	
    
Michael, if you wouldn't mind addressing this, I'd be interested in the 
answer too.

I've got an article from a past New Age Journal which is entitled 
"Astral Travelling".  Contact me offline if you're interested in a
copy.  

Cindy
       

    
    To All,
    
      I didnt mean to cause such a stir in here. I do believe I thanked you
    Zeffel,in my first reply. I neglected to do so on another reply,but,I
    do appreciate what you did say. 
      I have my own beliefs and feelings,and,I am not telling or asking
    that anyone follow what I believe. I do have the free will to choose my
    own path,even if it is the wrong one. Only I can decide whether I am
    ready to do anything,and,I only hope that I can find answers in that
    way. In order for that to happen I must ask questions,and,in order to
    understand I must test the answers until I can either accept or reject.
      I am sorry if my beliefs stir up things,this is how I learn. I am a
    child of the universe,reaching out for answers. 
      I am glad that Jesus brought his message to all who would come to him
    regardless of his financial status. Why should anyone be privilaged to
    that kind of enlightenment just because they have the money to pay for
    it? Its not money that makes the man or woman,its their heart.
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    Michael,
    
    The money issue has been discussed in several notes, i.e., what price
    enlightenment so I don't want to continue it here.  But I would like
    to point out that repeatedly Zeffel has suggested that you look within
    (as did Jesus and other Masters) for the answers.  To turn inward and
    listen for that still small voice is available to all at no cost.
    
    I also don't think Zeffel has asked anyone to follow her beliefs
    either.  I understand your need to have your questions answered, it is
    asking for 'proof' that has stirred folks up.  However, as Cindy stated
    it is wonderful to have this notefile where people feel open and safe
    enough to ask questions.  
    
    Even if they don't always like the answers!   ;')
    
    Ro

    
    To All;
       I am greatful that Zeffel and Iiissa have agreed to help us with
    our questions. She has decended back to Earth as part of her growth
    path. When she reaches her goal she goes on.  All walkins are supposed
    to stay to themselves and do not tell us lifestreams there purpose.
    Zeffel's is healing. This is not a physical healing but spritual.
    She has helped me greatly and want her to continue on. 
    
    Zeffel,
       If I have said something wrong please correct me.
    
    Denny..
    

    Zeffel,
    
    I've asked this question in another note and Marcia has given me
    her input.  You work with stones so I'd like your response too.
    
    During this upcoming eclipse, I'd like to charge some stones.  I'd
    like to know how you feel about putting them out at this time and
    what types of stones you recommend be charged this way.  Marcia
    stated that the Sun will be in Leo and the Moon in Aquarius and
    she suggested stones associated with the energies of those two 
    signs.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Joanne

         

    To All,

    As all the Children of the FATHER/MOTHER GOD are continually searching,
    growing, creating, changing and reshaping their creations and realities
    the FATHER/MOTHER GOD is continually experiencing through us.

    We are all ONE and at the same time we are all unique and individual
    pieces and expressions of the FATHER/MOTHER GOD born from the white
    fire core of ALPHA/OMEGA (the Central Sun of the Central Universe).
    Even though each is an individual expression of the whole, none is 
    "Better" or "Worse" than any other. All are at different junctures
    along the continuum. Therefore, I do not consider myself to be "Better"
    or "Superior" to any other lifestream as all other lifestreams are
    part of me and I part of them.

    I do not ask that any lifestream embrace my reality, for it is my
    reality and may not be appropriate for them. I have come in Love
    to serve in Love and to facilitate those that wish to receive the
    Love and Information I am able to provide. If there is information
    that another lifestream sincerely requires and I am for whatever
    reason unable to provide it, I will state that without hesitation
    and will endeavor to find a way to access that information if it
    is within my scope to do so.  We are all continually the Student 
    and the Teacher for each other. I am also learning from you as you
    are learning from me. I have to deal with the same things you all
    have to deal with as I am here in this dimension in a physical 
    vehicle that has built up energy patterns and momentums that I am
    working to clear. Using your language and a physical vehicle and
    experiencing some of the emotionally charged energy patterns of 
    this vehicle is foreign to me just as I am foreign to you. I will
    endeavor to be clear and comprehensive in my replies to your 
    questions, however, there may be times when these replies may be 
    perceived in a manner other than the original intent in which they 
    were written due to limitations of this medium. It is my hope and
    desire that we can all have patience, understanding and love for
    each other and by working together accomplish what we are here for:


                     Co-Creation of Heaven on Earth 

    The Light that I speak of in "In Light I AM" is the light of which
    we are all made...the Light of the White Fire Core of Creation,
    the Light of ALPHA/OMEGA reflected in the sun of your system  
    HELIOS/VESTA.


    You ask "Who are you........"?
    
    I reply: " I AM THAT I AM Zeffel".
    
    
    
         

    Where are you JM, when we need you?

RE .119
>    (.....) All our communication is done by what you call 
>    telepathy in light pictograms. (....)
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Zeffel,

I'd love to learn your language. Contact me when you can?

Arie

    Joanne,
    
    This is a wonderful time to put your stones out! Both luminaries that 
    we use to charge our stones, as well as the Earth (their planet of
    origin ,for most of them) will be involved in this eclipse and the 
    energy will be intense.  
    
    Personally, I will be putting "all my stones" out in the back yard for 
    the duration of the eclipse. I will also be making elixirs that day 
    and will place them outside under a pyramid during the eclipse for the
    extra charge.
    
    In Light I AM,
    Zeffel
    
    
    

    Zeffel,
    
    Thanks,  I going to gather all my stones and take them outside
    and sit with them.  If I ever get the pyramid together, I'll
    take that too.  Can you see my 30 odd neighbors wondering what
    is going on in their back yard.  8^)  Could be more interesting
    than one expects.
    
    Joanne
    

    Zeffel,
    
    You said, "I AM THAT I AM."
    God said that.
    Old Testament. When asked what His name was.
    
    But you knew that...
    
    Call upon the Light, my friend Pam says. 
    Ask It questions and you'll get the answers.
    
    Zeffel, I can't even put the words around the
    question I'm trying to ask you... the "connection"
    I think I made. 
    
    Can anyone else out there find the words?
    
    lynn
    

RE: 131 (Lynn)

    I don't think Zeffel was implying that she is God in the sense that I
    think you are hinting.  Rather that the "I AM THAT I AM" that is
    of God/Goddess/All_That_is is also a part of us all.  To recognize that
    part of ourselves and that part in others is special.  When we do, we
    can be a 'Light' to others.

    Does that make sense?

    Terry

    Terry,
    
    thanks for the words. That's exactly what I was
    groping for. We are all part of the Light. We can
    all call upon the Light for our personal growth.
    We can all be "Light" to others. 
    
    Pieces of a puzzle falling into place...
    
    lynn
    

    
    "You are the Light of the world."
    
    We all ARE.
    
    Cindy

    "There is a light, that never goes out"
    
    The Smiths - There is a light

    This little light of mine, I'm going to let it shine
    This little light of mine, I'm going to let it shine
    This little light of mine, I'm going to let it shine...
    
    Ohhh Praise the Lord!
                      Atman
                          God/Goddess/All_That_Is
                             Higher Self
                               Central Core of Being
                                  You Name It...    
                                     And let it shine...
   
    "I couldn't resist either"
    
    8-}
    
    -Arthur

  Zeffel,

  I'm generally very skeptical and cynical about topics such as those
  discussed in this conference, but I've been reading this note, and
  your replies are unusually perceptive for a "dingbat" (my opinion of
  many people who believe in this "stuff"). So I'm not so sure you're a
  dingbat after all, even though the jargon tends to set me off. So,
  with a little respect, I'd like to ask:

  When will we see these changes which you said are coming? In the next
  20 years? What sort of changes will they be? How will they manifest
  themselves? Will there be much suffering? If so, what sort, and by
  whom?

  Thanks for your thoughts.
    
    Annie

                                        
    Re.138 (Corbett)
    
    Annie,
    
    >your replies are unusually perceptive for a "dingbat" (my opinion
    >of many people who believe in this "stuff")
    
    Well, at least you're honest about it.  Any chance you'd be interested 
    in posting the names of the people you find to be the top dingbats of 
    this particular conference?
    
    >So I'm not so sure you're a dingbat after all...
    
    Is that supposed to be a compliment?
    
    Cindy

    
    re:.139 (Cindy)
    
    Are you prepared to be #1?
    
    :-) :-) :-)
    
    Guy

    re: .139, .140
    
        Bats have been given a bad rap throughout most of modern time.
    Actually, most of them are quite industious and useful (eating lots
    of pesky insects, etc.)  Some of them make lots of money (e.g. BATman)
    :-0
    I have no idea what species a Ding is but it might have something to
    do with either a bell or Edith Bunker, I'm not sure.
    Being number one in anything usually makes the Guinness Book of Records
    so maybe it's something to shoot for?
    
         This reminds me of the book "How to Win Friends and Influence
    People".
    
    Frederick
    

    > Actually, most of them are quite industious and useful (eating lots
    > of pesky insects, etc.) ...

      They also make great pets.  When you take long vacations you can
      hang them in the refrigerator and they'll hibernate while you're
      gone.

      A DINGy bat (cousin of the DING bat) is one that operates small 
      bat-boats. The DING bats ,on the other-hand, are usually found in 
      parking lots.  They are the ones that put little 'dings' in your door 
      while you are in the grocery store.  You never see them and usually 
      blame the jerk that parked next to you for the body-work done on your 
      car.

      ;�)

      Terry

    .142 (Terry)
    
       Oh, that's what it is...I thought ding-bats were something baseball
    players use for certain pitches.
    
    Frederick-batt
    

    Re .139
    
    Come, now.  Surely you have always known that most of the subjects
    discussed in this conference look very eccentric to lots of people,
    possibly the majority of DEC employees.  Why the surprise?
    
    				-+*+-
    
    A "dingbat" is a typographical ornament, like the "-+*+-" I used above,
    used to set off paragraphs or divide pages.  I don't know how the term
    came to mean "insane person."  I do know that that use pre-dates the TV
    character Archie Bunker, who popularized it.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    RE .138
    
    ... posting the names of the people ...
    
    It wouldn't be very constructive, would it? Why are you interested? If
    you want to know whether you're on my list, the answer is "partly". But
    that's MY list. You don't need MY approval to be a worthwhile person.
    Only your own.
    
    Still interested in hearing from Zeffel ...

    I get the feeling that Zeffel answers when she has the time
    to answer. Also I get the feeling that if this particular
    note gets alittle too weird...she waits for the vibes to
    settle before answering...or she answers alot of the questions
    posed to her offline. I get the idea that she is looking for
    a sincere inquiry from whoever poses a question. 
    
    Must be kind of strange experience to be the resident walk-in
    at Digital...maybe not...but she's sounds to be a rather 
    informative dingbat to me...no matter where Jean Atkinson is.
                                                     
    I am finding that there's the possibility of my belief system being
    open enough to encompass this concept of Walk-ins without my
    brain falling out on the floor. We'll see... 
    
    
    -[=-~-�*�-~-=]-
    -Arthur
    

    RE: 145
    
    Ah, not to steal Cindy's thunder but perhaps Cindy cares because she
    and others have worked very hard here in DEJAVU to create an
    environment where people feel safe to talk about subjects important to
    them without the hassle of having to defend themselves or be looked at
    as 'kooks'.
    
    Guess we thought we had gotten past 'name calling' here and we were
    becoming a 'community' (aka Scott Peck).  Oh well, sticks and stones...
    
    Ro
    

    	Re. .142  Terry,  Miss Pessimism here, what if your bat(s) were
    	in the fridge while you were away and there was a power outage?
    	
    	Re. .145  I for one have appreciated all that Zeffel has given
    	and do hope she continues but also doubts that she'd DINGnify
    	your entry.  
    
    Mary Jo
                 

    	> Re. .142  Terry,  Miss Pessimism here, what if your bat(s) were
    	> in the fridge while you were away and there was a power outage?
    	
	  Be careful when you open the door...

          Terry

    Is there anything I could say at this point which would not be seen as
    an attack? I can't say I believe in crystals or most of the things
    discussed in this file without lying. And I can't say that I think that
    people who do believe are fully in touch with themselves and reality.
    In fact, I'd be lying if I said I thought such a person was stable. If
    I have to lie to avoid sounding like a name-caller, then I'm sorry,
    I'll just have to be considered an agressive name-caller, and endure
    it.

    re: .150  (CORBETT)

    Heck, no one is attacking you and I don't feel you are really attacking 
    anyone.  You're expressing (in your way) what a number of skeptics here
    have said.

    > Is there anything I could say at this point which would not be seen as
    > an attack? 

    Sure, lots of things.  That's your choice.

    > And I can't say that I think that people who do believe are fully in 
    > touch with themselves and reality.

    Whose reality, their's or your's?

    > In fact, I'd be lying if I said I thought such a person was stable.

    Stable in relation to what?

    > I'll just have to be considered an agressive name-caller, and endure
    > it.

    Is that how you look at yourself, or is that an assumtion of how you
    think others percieve you?

    Do I rate dingbat?  I've been trying awful hard - I hope so.  ;-)

    Terry 

    RE.145 (Corbett)
    
    YAY!!!!!!!!!    YIPPIE YAHOO EVEN!!!
    
    I MADE THE LIST!!!!
    
    Annie - You've made my day.  My week even.  No, make that my year.
    That's the missing key I've been waiting for all my life in order to 
    feel like a worthwhile person.  Gosh - this is unbelievable.  Truly.
    
    Cindy
    
    PS. Now you were saying???  Go ahead, the floor (so to speak) is yours.
        I promise to be nice.  

    Re .150:
    
    > .... I can't say I believe in crystals or most of the things
    >discussed in this file without lying....
     
    _Believe_ in crystals?  Why, I've _seen_ 'em.  I even own a few.
    :-)
    
    A problem here is that there are levels of belief/understanding.
    The crystal bit's been kicked around more than a little; however,
    if you believe (that word again) that crystals are no more than
    any other chunk of material, it's like an atheist reading in a religion
    file: to an atheist, a religious person's "not all there"; to a
    religious person, an atheist's merely unenlightened.
    
    Apply "valuing differences," and press on.
    
    >..................................  And I can't say that I think that
    >people who do believe are fully in touch with themselves and reality.
    >In fact, I'd be lying if I said I thought such a person was stable. If
     
    Have a care.  A problem here is that when you're on the borders
    of something, it can be real, "real," or a mirage.  A conceptual
    model, though actually inaccurate, can produce results that get
    the job done [my favorite example: celestial navigation.  For it
    to work, it assumes that the Earth is the center of the universe,
    and all else rotates around it: astronomy, since Copernicus, tells
    us that's false, but if we use the _model_, not the reality, we
    can navigate successfully].  Now it may be that pk is actually a
    subtle form of local reversal of entropy; no matter, whether it's
    that or something else, if the object moves, it moves.
    
    P.A.M. Dirac made an unwarranted assumption (a model) to explain
    how one could achieve manufacture of antiparticles; it works, and
    indeed, it helps explain behavior of electrons in semiconductors.
    That it's a model is secondary; it gets results.
    
    Until/unless one can adequately explain such things as the placebo
    effect or/and stigmata, there's always room for the paranormal.
    Without being unstable to make the statement.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    re: .150
    
         The problem is that it depends on where one is sitting...
    From your vantage point things look a certain way.  From their's,
    it looks somewhat different.  While I can see *my* perspective,
    of course, I have what to me is the added advantage of seeing
    many other perspectives, too...for the most part, they aren't
    batty, just different.  What is being in touch with reality?
    Surely you can see that the reality you are talking about is
    only yours...it can NEVER be totally yours AND someone else's.
    While someone else's reality may not have an appeal to you, that
    doesn't make that reality "wrong" somehow.  Anyway, I can get my
    emotions up, too, just like most of the rest of us, and I often
    resort to name-calling, but only until I face the adult within
    myself who knows that that approach to my reality is
    counter-productive.  Those who wish to beat the brains out of others,
    physically or non-physically, are in a reality that is no longer
    of interest to me.  To *me*, while not necessarily batty, they are
    certainly foolish and not helpful to the concept of harmony and love,
    etc. which has far more appeal to me than what I think their reality
    has in store.
    
    Frederick
    

    The Prophet Mohammed (may peace be upon him) said: speak to others in
    the language which they understand. I've violated this rule (again),
    and now am paying the price. When will I ever learn? My apologies to
    you all. Thanks. It's been worthwhile anyway.

    re .155
    
    That's ok, don't go away, stick around as it gets interesting.
    
    Larry
    (Who has tripped over his teeth more than once) ;^)
    

    .128 re: learning MY language
    
    Arie, when would you like to start???
    
    .132 re: explanation of "I AM THAT I AM" (Light)
    
    Terry, very well put...thank you!....The difference from where I sit
    and where you sit is that I identify with the I AM part of me totally 
    and you (that means humanity in general) identify with the "human" part
    of you,for the most part. When you start to trust and identify with the
    I AM part of you is when your reality really starts to change
    significantly.
    
    .138 re: questions on coming changes.
    
    Annie, now that you initiated yourself in this file and walked through
    the fire of your own words.....
    
    ***"When are the changes coming?"....The changes have already started
    and given the current cycle will come to completion in approximately 
    22-23 years. However, the cycle can change based on the changes in mass 
    consciousness of the lifestreams on this planet.
    
    ***"What sort of changes?".....The earth is engaged in removing from 
    itself anything that does not vibrate in a loving manner...therefore,
    there will be many lifestreams that will decide to leave this plane 
    because they are not ready to function in the 5th dimension, there will
    be several "natural disasters". There are already changes in weather
    patterns, and the like; and these will continue. All things that do not
    vibrate to cosmic truth,love and reality in your life, will fall apart.
    Lifestreams that are actively seeking and growing will come to identify
    with the I AM part of themselves, discover their purpose and outpicture
    it.
    
    ***"Will there be much suffering?" "If so, what sort and by whom?"..That 
    depends entirely on individual realities and individual choices.
    
    Annie, please stay with us and share when you choose.
    
    In Light I AM,
    Zeffel
     

>    .128 re: learning MY language
    
>    Arie, when would you like to start???
    
Now.

Arie

    re: last two (Arie and Zeffel)
    
         ...Is this the language of love?
    
    Frederick
    ;-)

    >>>..."Is this the language of love?"
    
    You could put it that way, however, we would be referring to "Divine
    or Unconditional Love" and not human love.
    
    
    Arie....I will send you a pictogram telepathically and you can reply
    either here or offline to me as to whether or not you feel you have
    received it and what your impressions are.  I will start now!
    
    In Light,
    Z

    
    
    RE: .152  Cindy
    
    It's too bad we didn't know that's what you have been waiting for....
    we could have told you that a long time ago! ;-)
    
    Carole (who enjoys being considered a little weird - it let's you
            get away with the most amazing things :-)).

    Just want to say that this is the most amazing
    notes file I've ever read.  I check in every few
    days or so, read the newest memos, go back over
    some of the ones that "hit a chord" deep inside...
    And when I'm through, I exit with the most
    incredible feeling of peacefulness. 
    
    I admit, when I started reading, I felt like
    a voyeur; I was trying hard to understand what
    everyone was contributing. And then I read a
    note from Iissa -- and found, much to my surprise --
    that I believed her. It FELT right. And Zeffel
    feels right too. 
    
    That's all. Just a thank you, everyone! I feel
    much better in non-physical way!
    lynn
    

    re .157, thank you very much. I'll continue to read, and maybe
    sometimes write.
    
    Arie: how was it?

                                                                     
    Re.158+ (Elsenaar + Zeffel)
    
    It's probably better to learn light pictograms than to have Zeffel 
    try and learn (to speak) Dutch.   Everybody knows Dutch is not a real 
    spoken language - it's an affliction of the throat!  (;^)  om...
    
    Re.162 (Fretts)
    
    Carole, well I guess it's true - your friends are always the last to
    tell you...(;^).  You know, you might be on the list too.  Annie? 
    
    Re.one from lynn
    
    Ok, just *what* does a voyeur feel like?  Heh heh...
    
    Cindy
    

    Re .164 (Cindy):
    
    >Ok, just *what* does a voyeur feel like?  Heh heh...
    
    The young female ones generally feel soft and silky.  I've never
    had any desire to find out what the male ones feel like. ;-D
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

RE .160 (Zeffel)

>                              -< New Mail forms! >-
Yeah <chuckle>... Pity that "Ethernet" is a reserved word.... ;-)
    
>    .... I will send you a pictogram telepathically and you can reply
>    either here or offline to me as to whether or not you feel you have
>    received it and what your impressions are.  I will start now!

Hm. Interesting the OSI model for communication consists of seven layers. How
many chakras you said there were? :-)

Will contact you off-line.

Thanks!

Arie

PS Frederick: you are close. Ask Lazaris!

    Remember, a picture is worth 1,000 words.
    
    Actually, it makes sense to me given spoken language has so many
    limitations.  I think it would be most interesting to convey
    and receive concepts and ideas all at once.
    
    L.
    

RE -1 (L.)

>    Actually, it makes sense to me given spoken language has so many
>    limitations.  I think it would be most interesting to convey
>    and receive concepts and ideas all at once.

That's not all, for me, though definitely important. It is also the *means* that
are used. This iconic language also means a state of mind. It's hard for me to
find the right word now (and I am still not able to send you the icon :-)), but
does "purity of mind" fit?

Arie

    
    Continuing the brief digression:
    
    In response to Larry's thought "I think it would be most interesting to
    convey and receive concepts and ideas all at once" I can relate my
    experience with that form of communication...
    
    Part of what I do involves production of films and videos, and three
    years ago I worked on a short animated film for an awards program.
    The artist who worked with me was a madman, whose insanity was
    contagious, and he appreciated my particular creative skills. In short,
    after a very brief period, we began to 'communicate' by saying at most
    a single word, and sometimes not even that. Instead, we transmitted 
    images and concepts to one another. It was uncanny - we'd come
    up with the same pictures instantaneously, scribbling them onto the 
    storyboards. We put together over two-thirds of the film that way, and 
    might have been able to do more, but for the intrusion of reality in 
    the form of the scriptwriter.  We must have been doing something 
    right, for the film went on to win the grand prize in its category in 
    an international competition.
    
    Every now and then I'm able to recreate that same effect with other
    people, but I guess I haven't decided to control and develop the skill
    for 'everyday' use...
    
    Gloria       
     

    Good Morning All,
    
    Hope everyone had a great weekend.
    
    This is an update to let you know how Arie is doing with pictogram
    communication.....in a simple statement..."Very well".  He has not
    as yet consciously received the pictogram I have been sending him,
    but he most assuredly knows when I make contact with him...and is
    feeling good and comfortable about it. I am extremely pleased with
    our progress and at some later date Arie may choose to tell you 
    about it himself.  
    
    I hope you all enjoyed the eclipse last week...I did...it was
    wonderfully clear in Worcester.
    
    Hello Vermont readers..I will be in your beautiful state this coming
    weekend, staying in Hartland near Woodstock. There is a big gem and 
    mineral show at Lake Sunapee, New Hampshire over the weekend that I 
    will be going to to shop for crystals. This is one of the biggest
    shows of the year for any of you that can attend. If you can't go this
    year, this show is given yearly and well worth attending if you are 
    attuned to crystals.
    
    In Light I AM,
    Zeffel
    
     
    
    
    

    Hello, Zeffel.
    
    Would you mind posting a little more detail on when and where
    the mineral show is in Sunapee?  It sounds like something some
    friends and I would like to attend.  
    
    Thank you,
    
    Karen

    Hi Karen,
    The Gem and Mineral show is at Mount Sunapee in the State Park, 
    Saturday, August 26 and Sunday, August 27 from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m.
    
    If you are taking Rte 89 you get off at exit 9 and take Rte. 103 
    West. Then follow the signs from the State Park Traffic Circle.
    
    Hope you can make it!
    
    In Light,
    Zeffel

    re: .172, thank you, Zeffel.  I am working on getting there.
    I've invited some friends to go, so there's a good possibility.
    (Gee, or maybe I could even go alone!)  
    
    Again, thanks.
    
    Karen

Ref .167


Something is missing in this pictogram.... 


I believe the essence of communication is in emotion.  It is 
what gives feeling to a word or idea or picture for me.

A pictogram is a more complete form of personal communication, 
compared to written or spoken words, and might elicit some 
emotional responses.  

A more complete form of advanced communication for me though, 
would include the transfer and reception of emotion including 
an understanding of how the senders emotional base evolved. 


John

RE .175 (John)

> A more complete form of advanced communication for me though, 
> would include the transfer and reception of emotion including 
> an understanding of how the senders emotional base evolved. 

John,

as I experience it: the feelings/emotions are already shared by the
link *itself*. On top of this, the pictogram only adds to this
(and by the way: I am struggling to align the two right now).

> I believe the essence of communication is in emotion. 

There. I couldn't have said it better.
;-)
Arie

    Zeffel,
    
    I read the last 176 notes with interest. This was an unknown topic
    for me, but I'm sure I will be learning more about it in the near
    future.
    
    I have a question which was triggered after reading more recent
    notes that brought the subject of Jesus Christ. As you know, there
    are a good many number of religious beliefs in our world today.
    Christianity happens to be the most common to this notes conference,
    even though the majority of the world population is Muslim, and
    then there are Jewish, Budists, Hindus, Bahais, and others.
    
    How do you relate to religion? Do you have a different understanding
    to our existence here? Does any of these religions reflect your
    beliefs more than the others? And any more of your ideas in this
    subject?
    
    I am not asking this because I am very religous, or trying to prove
    that one belief is better than other. Just curious about what you
    (and maybe other walk-ins as well) think about it, and how our world
    sees it?
    
    Yasemin

             <<< BOMBE::DISK_NOTES$LIBRARY:[000000]DEJAVU.NOTE;1 >>>
                             -< Psychic Phenomena >-
================================================================================
Note 1034.178           A Practitioner in the Boston Area             178 of 178
CIMNET::ATKINSON                                     38 lines  13-SEP-1989 08:47
                         -< Ask and you shall Receive >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Good Morning,
    
    With reference to (And how about our belief system?)
    
    We walk-ins don't do religion we simply live GOD. The reason we don't
    do religion is that your religions have too many limitations and take
    away from the individual the reality that you are part of GOD and
    therefore, are the same divine essence as GOD, making you GOD
    (YHWH...I AM THAT I AM). Your religions foster the idea that you are 
    inadequate and a sinner, therefore, you cannot possibly be a divine being. 
    They do not communicate the understanding that "God made man in his image" 
    really means that electromagnetically and vibrationally GOD originally 
    created man out of the white fire core of their being with the combination
    of light and sound. They do not communicate the understanding that 
    "to sin" means to misqualify the divine energy that sustains your life 
    flow with unloving thoughts, words and deeds. They do not communicate 
    the understanding that Jesus the Christ, Mohammed, Buddha etc. came to
    show the rest of mankind the way to revibrate their DNA and RNA to the
    next level of creation in order to ascend the physcial plane....not
    to "save" mankind from itself.  They do not communciate the
    understanding that they Father/Mother God is a duality....they do not
    communicate the understanding that GOD does not judge mankind but that
    mankind judges itself (each individual judges him/her self)and creates
    the ensuing situations to balance their own misqualified energy
    spirals. They do not communicate the understanding that this planetary
    body is a living being and is going through a growth cycle like every
    other living being here and purging itself of all things, beings and
    momentums that are unloving. They do not communicate the understanding
    that the current cycle is a great opportunity for all who truly wish
    to accelerate spiritually to purge themselves of all habits and
    momentums that are unloving, revibrate themselves and ascend in the
    physical body at the time of the planetary shift out of the 3rd and
    into the 5th dimension. They do not communicate the understanding that
    those who are in incarnation currently chose to be here at this time for
    that very purpose I just mentioned.
    
    In Light I AM,
    Zeffel
    

    Re.178 (Atkinson)
    
    Hi Zeffel,
    
    I believe that it is only Christianity (of the non-mystical,
    non-Gnostic sort) which puts forth the notion that we are all sinners
    and born flawed in some way.  
    
    In any case, what you say about this is quite true - it is far to 
    limiting.  Fortunately many are waking up to this fact.
                     
    Cindy

    
    	Re the "we are sinners" trip, I think there is something of
    	that in the Islamic religions too. Beautiful reply, Zeffel -
    	I feel a higher vibration just by reading it!
    
    Neal

    re.180
    
    Happy to extend a higher vibration anytime!!
    
    In Love,
    Zeffel

    .175   about emotion.....
    
    At this point in your time and space, I experience at least several
    more emotions than the lifestreams of this planet all of which are
    greater than ectasy.  Imagine if you will what is or could be greater
    than ectasy.
    
    So there can be no question that emotion is most definitely
    communicated in the telepathic communication of pictograms....
    
    
    In Love and Light
    I AM
    Zeffel
    

    I think a description of these *emotions* that are greater than
    ectasy or the experience within which they're felt would certainly
    brighten our day Zeffel!!!!!!!!!! When you can.....perhaps your
    discussion of these emotions will s*t*r*e*t*c*h our reality a
    little bit more......again.     thanks
    
    ray k.

    ....is normal when we discover who we really are.
    
    l
    

    Hi Zeffel,
    I have been wondering if you "selected" your walk-in vehicle, knowing
    that the physical body worked in an environment that permitted the
    free exchange of ideas and information through this electronic network?
    You have undoubtedly reached far more people through this system than
    you may have reached through more conventional methods, such as 
    interest group meetings, chance conversations, etc. Through this
    network, your message is open to thousands, each of whom can pass on
    what is learned to others...an amazing way to effectively spread the
    word across the planet. 
    
    Was it chance, or selection?
    regards, lynn
    
      

    re: 1034.183
    
                      <Emotions greater than Ecstacy>
    
    Good Morning All,
    Today I will talk about "Divine Love"....This is "Unconditional Love"
    as you have all heard it referred to.....This is an everflowing emotion
    that is not qualified in the way that "Human Love" is qualified...it is
    not possessive, it does not judge worthiness, it is not for the few or
    select, it is not obsessive or compulsive....it is CONSTANT and for ALL
    regardless of color, ethnic background, planetary origin, physical or 
    non-physical structure,  positivity or negativity of personal thoughts,
    use of the sacred word or personal deeds. It flows ever onward
    bestowing intense light and eternal energy to all.....It flows from the
    Heart chakra of the divine aspect of your being, which is the true and 
    essential part of your being which some of your belief systems call 
    your Christ self, or your Higher self or your Causal body, or your Fire 
    body;and connects to the (nexus* of the figure 8 flow in the physical
    body) heart chakra in your physical body (if you are in physical
    incarnation). When this part of your being is fully anchored to your
    physical being you will be able to experience this flow and channel it 
    out to all you come in contact with. It is this aspect of your divine 
    being that can heal all negative spirals in your personal physical 
    environment. (As an aside, just because an individual has raised
    Kundalini and has become "realized" does not mean that they have
    necessarily activated their divine emotions or any of the other divine
    aspects that they will eventually achieve.) This is an aspect of your
    divinity that you "earn" through what you believe and what you create
    as a result of that "faith" or belief.
    
    
    *Nexus = midpoint of figure 8 flow = heart chakra
    
    
    In Light and Love I AM,
    Zeffel

    
    re:1034.185 chance or selection?
    
    Hi Lynn,
    In all actuality it was chance....this selection was made before Jeanne
    incarnated into this physical vehicle and at that time it was not known
    that Jeanne would have access to this network. As a matter of fact,
    Iiissa did not know of, or participate in this forum in any way until
    after this note (1034.) was initiated.  
    
    So, it was by chance; but a happy chance at that! It has been a
    wonderful vehicle for disseminating the information I came to give
    and as you have expressed, I have been able to reach far more
    lifestreams than would have been possible during this time period using
    more conventional means. I have also shown you that this information is
    not something that you necessarily have to "pay money to receive". Yes
    there should always be a return flow for what you receive...Your love,
    your questions, your sharing with others what you have received
    and your continued growth is currently the return flow for this service
    that I have come to give.  
    
    I will continue to write as often as I can to answer your questions....
    I was informed last week that my current position is being eliminated
    in CMPD's environment and so I will be spending a great deal of time
    locating another position in the company if possible...if anyone knows
    of any redeployment programs please let me know....they don't
    necessarily have to be in Massachusetts...I am open to other areas of
    this lovely country. So if you would like a walk-in in your
    neighborhood....please let me know of any openings off line from this 
    forum.
    
    In Light and Love I AM,
    Zeffel

    Hi Zeffel,
    
    re:  187.  I was wondering what happened to you!  I hadn't checked into
    this note for a while and have finally had a chance to read through to
    the end and find that you've been job hunting.  If you read this, could
    you write in and let us know where you are and if you are still Zeffel
    or another walk-in?  Regarding #178, your comments on religion really
    hit home for me because I grew up Catholic (strict Catholic), which I
    believe is the most guilt/sinner oriented of the Christian religions. 
    It has taken me years to figure out that I did not "do" anything wrong. 
    I was taught that from the time I was a very small child, that nearly
    ALL normal human emotions are nasty or bad including sexual feelings,
    emotions ranging from anger to laughter and must have some deep sinful
    meaning behind them.  If they would only focus on the statement that
    "God made man in his image and likeness" as you mentioned, the entire
    entity (the Church) could take on a different feeling.  It never
    occured to me to think of it this way before, but I surely will start
    now.  
    
    This is a perfect ending to my development process for 1989 and a great
    beginning for the New Year.  Many thanks and wishes for a Happy News
    Year.
    
    Nancy
    

RE: .188 (Nancy)
    
    This isn't one-upmanship, just a comment ...
    
    > ... I grew up Catholic ..., which I believe is the most guilt/sinner
    > oriented of the Christian religions.
    
    Check out Calvinist Protestantism one of these days.  According to
    Calvinists not only are you absolutely guilty, you are guilty whether
    or not you do anything wrong, and there is absolutly nothing you can
    do to expunge that guilt (of course, if you happen to be one of the
    foreordained Elect God will choose to forgive you, but nothing you do,
    say or think will have any effect).  It is Calvinism which has produced
    the image of a person as a tiny spider on the end of a slender thread
    dangled over a roaring fire by a angry and disgusted God.
    
    					Topher

    RE:  189
    
    Topher,
    
    Now I don't feel so bad...I never realized that such a negative
    religion existed.  I thought Catholicism was bad enough.  Many thanks
    for your thoughts on this.
    
    Nancy
    

    Good Morning,
    So far I am still in Marlboro....I haven't gotten a new job yet but
    am still looking and have a few prospects since Career Opportunity
    Days II.
    
    I have made the transition from Zeffel to Altraea (pronounced
    Al-Tray-a). 
    
    Thank you for your interest and caring....If there is anything I can
    answer for you please let me know.
    
    In Light and Love 
    I AM
    Altraea

    
    Welcome, Altraea.      
    
    Cindy

    Thank you for your gracious welcome Cindy.
    
    Yes, we have known each other before as we are all ONE.
    
    Light and Love to you,
    
    I AM
    Altraea

    		HELLO, 
    		 
    		MY NAME IS LAUREN AND I HAVE BEEN READING ABOUT
    		WALK-IN'S.  I AM MOST INTRIGUED WITH THE KNOWLEDGE
    		THAT HAS BEEN SHARED BY ALTRAEA.  IT HAS BROUGHT
    		ME TO AN AWARENESS THAT HAS BEEN SHADOWED. I FEEL
    		ENERGIZED AFTER READING AND WANT TO SHARE THIS FEELING
    		WITH CHOSEN FEW.
    
    
    		THANK YOU ALL (ESPECIALLY ALTRAEA)
    
    
    		LAUREN

    You are most welcome Lauren....we are happy to make you feel at home...
    please participate at any time. I will be most happy to share whatever 
    I may with you.
    
    In Light and Love,
    I AM
    Altraea

    has anyone heard from altraea???
    
    she must be busy in her job search!
    
    Altraea...are you still with us ???
    
    

    Hi Joe,
    I am "very" busy in my job search.....I have tried many times
    to contact you at work but have not had any luck...so I have
    gone with the flow and opened to the fact that this may not be
    the apppropriate time for us to work together, because you are
    busy exploring other avenues right now.  When the time is appropriate
    I am sure I will be able to reach you!
    
    I assure you I AM still here....you can't lose me that easily.
    
    If you want to correspond with me on the net...feel free. I will
    answer as I can.
    
    In Light and Love,
    I AM
    Altraea

RE -1 (Altraea)

>    ......  When the time is appropriate
>    I am sure I will be able to reach you!

Same for us, Altraea! ;-)

Till then!

Arie

    I just tuned into this thread and have only recently found this very
    facinating message base.  I would love to become involved in dialogue
    but as it turns out, I am a 'temporary' whose contract expires next
    friday.  Personally, I think this Dejavu forum is reason enough to want
    to work for Digital.  Oh well... when I move to California this June, I
    will try to find another temp placement there.  Anyway, I have not had
    time to read the entire 198 messages so if you haven't already answered
    this could you explain to me if your perceptions are from the view of a
    seperate entity or if you can see from the perspective of oneness that
    we are all a part of (or some combination of both) and is it possible
    (or desirable) to re-exchange vehicles with the previous occupant of
    the body you presently relate from?   
    
    Got to go now.
    
    Jon 

    Jon,
    It is nice to have you participate with us for however long.
    
    For the most part, I experience from the perspective of the oneness
    that we are all part of, but I also have the chance to experience 
    from the perspective of individuation (as I am here expericencing in
    a physical body) if I so choose.
    
    It is possible to re-exchange vehicles with the previous occupant of a
    body you presently relate from. However, it is not particularly desirable 
    as you would have revibrated the cellular structure of said body to a much
    higher rate than that former occupant would be able to maintain. 
    
    In Light 
    I AM
    Altraea

    
    A question for anyone who wants to theorize or,other:
    
    Does all matter have a specific vibrational frequency,and,this
    frequency determine its reality. That is,wether its
    stone,or,wood,flesh,etc?
    
    If so, what is the source of it?
    
    Actually two questions :^) .
    
    Peace
    Michael
    

    
    Note 1034.201 
    DNEAST::PUSHARD_MIKE  
    
    
    >Does all matter have a specific vibrational frequency,and,this
    >frequency determine its reality. That is,wether its
    >stone,or,wood,flesh,etc?
     
    yes
 
    >If so, what is the source of it?
    
    "ripple in still water,
     when there is no pebble tossed,
     nor wind to blow"                
                            Ripple, Grateful Dead
                      
    "All the forces of nature are actually different manifestations of a single
    force that has been present since the beginning of the universe."
                                           Unified field theory, Einstein
    
    
    Mary Stanley

    
    re .199
    
    everything is possible

         
    Hi Jon,
    
    Please stop by before you leave, if possible.
    
    If we are unable to connect, then I wish you a safe journey.
    
    Love,
    
    Cindy

    Not to digress but, where is the "Lady (lifestream) of the Hour"
    
    
    
    

    
    re: 205
    
    Good Afternoon,
    
    As of yesterday, I started my new position in LKG in Littleton.
    My new node is NETMAN.....I want to thank you all for your support
    and best wishes during my job search....and I want you all to know
    that I am still in Massachusetts due to being hired by one of our
    Dejavu readership.....Thank you Jane!
    
    In Light and Love,
    I AM
    Altraea

>                    <<< Note 1034.206 by CIMNET::ATKINSON >>>
>                    -< ARE YOU SURE YOU WANTED DOOR #3???? >-

        Welcome to ASDS!  I work for the organization over at the Stow
     site.  I'm sure we'll be running into each other on occasion.  If I
     can help you with anything, please let me know.

        Vicki

    .207
    
    Thank you for the welcome Vicki....look forward to meeting you!
    
    A slight revision to reply .206  our node name was changed yesterday
    so my new node is: NETWMN::ATKINSON.
    
    
    Namasthe,
    Altraea

    Hi, this is the first time I have replied to this notes file --
    although I have been reading for a few months.  I really appreciate
    all I have learned from everyone's input.  
    I was compelled to write when I saw the term "Namasthe" in your
    last reply, Altraea.  I occasionally attend a "newage" church
    in San Diego and I believe the Rev. has used this term.  I'm
    pretty sure it was what she said to each of us when shaking hands
    after the Christmas service.  What does it mean?
    
    With Love,
    Denise
    

    Denise,
    
    Namasthe...in essence means the same as "I salute the light within
    you."
    
    That's a lovely greeting for a minister to give.
    
    In Light and Love,
    Namasthe,
    Altraea

    
    An interesting but perhaps unrelated sidenote:
    
    Namaste is the Tibetan and Nepali greeting.
    
    Marco 

    
     Hello Marco,
    
     I don't believe it is unrelated.
    
    "Namasthe" is a sanskrit compound word 
     combining "Namaha" and "Asthe". 
     The meaning is what Altraea pointed out to be:
    "I salute the divine/light in you". That divinity which is the 
     united, non-dualistic combination of the male
     and female aspects of vibratory creation.
     
     When using namasthe as a form of greeting, the palms are usually
     brought together, signifying that you acknowledge the other person
     as an embodiment of divinity.  The palms being brought
     together symbolizes the unification of the male and female aspects.
     
     Joseph Campbell has explained this concept beautifully in his series 
     of talks with Bill Moyers. Unfortunately, i don't remember the name 
     of the series though.
    
     Hope this helps,
    
     Namasthe,
     rama
     
    
    

    
    Hi - the series by Bill Moyers with Joseph Campbell is entitled "The
    Power Of The Myth".
    
    Namaste,
    
    Cindy

    Hi All,
    
    Thanks for your all your input.  BTW, Altraea, you were right, our
    "person" at the church is a minister not a rev.
    
    Namasthe,
    Denise
    

    Altraea,
    
    I'm curious about your relationship with your "human" family. When
    Jeanne's father was sick, did you "feel" as if it were *your* father,
    or are you emotionally removed from them? Also, when you stated that
    you studied the lifestream of the vehicle you currently occupy, how
    long did you have to study it, and did you ever come across a situation
    that you were totally unfamiliar with such as meeting a person that one
    of the other lifestreams has known and you did not know of?
    Also, at the illness of Jeanne's father, did she at any time want to
    "come back", so she could be with him, or is she now totally removed
    from human emotion?
    
    This subject is fascinating to me, and I have many questions; I hardly
    know where to begin. When you entered the vehicle, did you also
    experience the sensation that Iiissa explained to us many notes ago?
    
    Also, when Iiissa took over for Jeanne, the family noticed subtle but
    noticeable changes in the vehicle, what if any changes have occurred
    in the last two exchanges?
    
    
    Thanks for your patience with us who do not yet fully understand.....
    
    
    Marilyn
    

    re: .215
    
    Good afternoon Marilyn,
    
    When Jeanne's father was ill I felt as if he was a part of my "family"
    but then all of you are "part of my family" and was deeply concerned 
    for his welfare because of human belief structure..but as for specifics,
    I am emotionally involved with my "human family" on a more intimate
    level than the rest of humanity, but it is not quite the same as it
    would be if I were Jeanne....yes, I have her cell memories to
    experience (and the cell memories of all the lifestreams that have
    preceded me) however, the Father/Mother "God" is the Father and Mother
    I acknowledge....not the human form of my brethren, as we all came
    forth from the white fire core of being.
    
    I studied the lifestream of this vehicle for about six months of your
    time. I have not so far come across a situation that I was totally un-
    familiar with.
    
    Jeanne is no longer involved with consciousness here and is actively
    involved in a totally different reality so she would have no knowledge
    of his illness. (It would not be appropriate or constructive for her).
    
    I did experience the "wiggling into a tight corset" feeling upon
    entering this vehicle as Iiissa described to you....our light bodies
    are vastly larger than these human forms.
    
    Mostly, just subtle changes in the tone of eye color, hair color,
    slight alterations in eye shape, face shape, weight....energy level
    is the most noticeable. (possibly another one is the tone of the voice
    is different, general mood of personality and carriage of the body).
    
    In Light and Love,
    I AM
    Altraea
    

I am posting this note here as well as in 1226. for those who are not
regular readers:



                         COME AND PLAY DAY II

     To those lifestreams who do not know me, I AM Altraea, a celestial 
walk-in; here in service to the LIGHT, as part of a large transition team 
to help channel through the technologies needed to assist in the co-
creation of Heaven on Earth. As the Earth prepares for the New Age of Love, 
Harmony and Enlightenment, she is shifting to new light frequencies and 
revibrating cellular structures to accommodate the increased amounts 
of light they will need to hold. These technologies being channeled 
will assist you in making the same shift and bringing more light into 
your physical body at a gentle rate .

   If you are interested in awakening to the Master within you, 
becoming more in tune with your life purpose or simply increasing and 
accelerating your light intake, COME and PLAY on Saturday, May 19, 
1990 at 532 Great Road in Acton, Mass. starting a 12 noon. We will be
there until at least 5:00 p.m., so do come when you can. 

   I will be giving chakra and electro-magnetic field adjustments
using such technologies as sacred geometry in crystal grids, toning,
tuning forks, copper tools, stained glass disks and paddles, direct 
energy channeling.

**   Please bring a pillow to sit on and wear comfortable clothing. **
     If you are in tune with crystals bring your favorites with you.
     There will be a modest donation at the door to cover expenses.

Directions:  Take Rte 495 to Exit 31 (Rte 119) (if you are coming from
495N, turn left when you get off the ramp, if you are coming from 
495S, turn right) follow Rte 119/2A until you come to the Acton Mall
at Nagog Square on the left, you will then see the resevoir on the 
right. Just past the resevoir on the right-hand side you will see a
sign that says 352 Great Road, Edgewater Offices, turn right just
after that sign.  It is the first house on the right. there is a small
parking lot before the house. Park where you can.  There is a sign on
the door that reads: "Dr. Varese's Office, Come in Please."

    Do Come and Bring Your Friends. We will have a Wonderful Time!
    

    Dear Altraea,
    Welcome. I have not read this file for a long time
    (busy busy busy at work!), and so just read about
    your arrival today.
    
    Is it possible for you to explain why you are here
    now? Did Zeffel "reach" her goals, and are you to
    provide a new level of direction? Actually, I suppose
    the question I really want to ask is if walk-ins have
    similiar goals and capabilities for achieving those goals;
    or, if you are like humans and are individually unique
    in the gifts, talents and levels of ability you bring
    to achieving specified goals? 
    
    I hope you find your experiences here rewarding!
    regards, lynn
    

    Dear Altraea,
    
    I just read about the Come and Play Day in Acton, and am so sorry I
    missed it!  I wonder if many people came, and did you feel it was a
    productive day?  If so, will you be having another?
    
    Thanks,
    Nancy
    

re: .218

Thank you for the welcome Lynn! I am here for the same reasons Iiissa
and Zeffel were here, I just vibrate at a higher rate and can access
whatever talents and technologies I need to accomplish my purpose,even 
though we are all individually unique expressions of the divine fire.

Some of my experiences are very rewarding, and some are not. Some are
joyful and some are very sad.

Thank you again for the welcome.

In Light and Love,
I AM
Altraea
    

re:.219
Good Afternoon Nancy,

Come and Play Day II was very productive....about 30 people came....
not all of them stayed for an adjustment, but about 23 did.....
Hope they enjoyed it....they seemed too!

Yes, I will be having more....I will post them at the appropriate times.

Namasthe,
Altraea    

    Thanks again, Altraea, for another wonderful experience during Come and
    Play Day II!  Both of my friends and I were glad we went and look
    forward to yet another day!  You are very special indeed.
    

    Iiissa,
    
    First of all, I want to thank you for your openness.  You have answered
    a lot of questions for me.  Three years ago, I found out that my older
    sister is a walkin.  I had never heard of a walkin before, so I tried
    to read up on it through some of Ruth Montgomery's books.  
    
    I come from a large family (5 girls and 1 boy) and there is only 3 of
    us who know the story.
    
    Sometimes I feel like I lost my sister and I never had a chance to deal
    with the situation, and yet sometimes I feel very close to the walkin. 
    I had a very close relationship with Aimee (my sister) and I have a
    close friendship with the walkin.  We know when each other needs to
    talk, and the phone call is made.  She has helped me in a lot of
    situations and has helped to open me up to usually whatever comes down
    the road.
    
    I guess I really just needed to say that out loud.  I tried calling but
    could not get through.
    
    Thanks for all the explanations.
    
    
    Mary
    
    ination 

    is there any way to recognize walk-ins?  is there a difference in
    attitude or other subtle items?
    
    mary
    

    re: .224 (Mary)
    
         A REAL walkin won't be any different than anyone else.
    
    Frederick
    

         Well, where have I been the past year or so!!  I started the topic
    on Ruth Montgomery (864?) in hopes of learning more about walk-ins and of
    course other related topics, but for some reason the few times I have
    accessed Deja Vu in the past year I have always hit the NEXT
    UNSEEN key when I came to this note.  Hmmm...I'll have to think about
    that one!  I just finished reading reading all the replies to this note
    and boy have I been missing out!
    
         I was just curious, is Altraea still with us?  If I remember
    correctly the last note from her was back in May?  If so, I feel
    compelled to ask you about eating disorders?  Not sure why...I'm just a
    very intuitive kinda guy and feel that you may have something to offer
    that might help those of us who are having trouble with the 4th (5th??) 
    chakra.
    
    Capt. Scott

.224 Mary

  It is a difference in Electromagnetic Field.....if you are able to see
it, you can tell.....otherwise, you can not.

  Is there a reason you want to be able to distinguish?

Namasthe,
Altraea    

.226 
  Capt. Scott what kind of eating disorders are you considering might have
something to do with trouble in 4th and 5th chakras.

Allergy to dairy products is connected to some difficulties with 4th, 5th 
and 6th chakras....Clearing the heart and throat chakras usually are
associated with (4th)clearing the emotional body and (5th)speaking one's 
truth.

If you will give me a little more information regarding what you are trying
to find out....I will be happy to answer you.

In Light and Love 
I AM
Altraea

    

    No Altrea, I was only curious if there were any differences; I should
    have guessed from other comments you have made regarding frequency
    that there WOULD be a difference in at least the elecm. field.  I am
    not a person tho' that can see it.
    
    Thanks for answering, and am glad you're still participating in the
    notes file.
    
    Mary
    

    Dear Altraea,
    I just finished reading an interesting note
    (#1250, I believe), that presented an astrologer's
    interpretation of the the impact of Saturn, Uranus
    and Neptune entering Capricorn and then, Aquarius.
    While I am the farthest thing from an expert on
    astrological relationships, causes and effects,
    the article reinforced some interpretations I've
    heard from friends who study the charts.
    
    Anyway, that's my long intro into asking if, because
    you vibrate at a higher rate, you are also attuned
    to astrological events, and if there is -- in your
    opinion -- validity to astrological interpretations.
    A recent issue of Omni magazine featured an article
    by a noted astronomer who has outraged the scientific
    community by asserting that there are some things 
    about astrology that are correct...Before we go off
    on a new topic, though, I would really appreciate
    hearing if you, as a walk-in, have first-hand
    experiencs or beliefs.
    
    thank you!
    lynn 

    re: 224
    
    Hi,  My sister is a walk-in, and I noticed a difference in attitudes as
    well.  People outside of my family I don't think ever saw any changes
    though.  
    
    It's been a number of years since we found out that she is a walk-in. 
    Probably the first time I questioned what was wrong, was when I
    realized she didn't remember any of our childhood.  We always did
    things together and she didn't remember any of it.  
    
    I think unless you are (were) really close to the person, you probably
    wouldn't recognize that they are walk-ins.   I have since met 2 others
    and would not have guessed.  (Actually I did guess, but only after
    listening and watching them with my sister).
    
    I don't know if this helps.
    
    (Another)  Mary
      
    

Re: .230

  Yes Lynn, It is all connected...and astrology has a great amount of 
validity as a tool in correlating the impact of planetary alignment
on physical reality. Especially now that Earth's solar system has shifted
into a new position in it's Universe and you are experiencing new and 
different light spectrums and planetary pulls than previously experienced.
This will increase as things accelerate. 

Namasthe,
Altraea

    Hello Altrea,
    
    Recently there has been some discussion here in Dejavu regarding
    Nostradamus and his (supposed) predictions concerning future events.
    Some people believe that many of his predictions are on target for
    what's been happening in the world over quite some time, and have tried
    to tie in some of his predictions with current happenings in the
    Persian Gulf.  Can you shed any light on any of this?  For me,
    Nostradamus is in my "I can't decide" category of my mind...who can say
    for sure if what he "predicts" is true?  I feel that it's easy to state
    what a prediction *was* after the event has happened.  Many of the 
    predictions were "noticed" after the event happened, and tied to one of
    his theories.  When presented, these predictions seem to make sense,
    because they were written with the purpose of relating them to his
    theories written in the 1500's.  But, many authors of books have
    capitalized on writings about his theories, so of course they must have
    some "new information" to present in their books.
    
    I must admit, some of these ideas are upsetting, if they are true.  For
    example, events during WWII were supposedly predicted because
    Nostradamus "saw" Hitler, and related the story about someone named
    "Hister".....so he was only off by one letter.  I read about these
    things and feel a mixture of upset and disbelief.  Are you here to
    protect us from another nuclear catastrophe?  Do you know anything
    about Nostradamus and his telling of the future?  I hope you can help
    to clarify this because I've been wondering about it for some time.
    
    Peace,
    Nancy
    

  Re:.234
  
  No Marcos,
  Not all lifestreams evolve through similar cycles....some never descend
  into form but are only involved in the creation and sustance of form 
  (ie: Ehlohim, cherubim, seraphim and usually Archangels...there 
  have been a few exceptions to this as in the case of Mary, Archeai and 
  Mother of Jesus.) 

  Personally, this is my first trip into form as you experience it and as 
  was pointed out by you the sacrifice is often great. I had no need to 
  descend into form....I volunteered to come here to assist in the birthing 
  of Earth because I had some questions about being in physical form and
  as the Prime Creator First Cause (Mother/Father God) subscribes to the
  experiental form of learning, what better way of learning than doing.

  As for the "emotionally charged energy patterns of this vehicle being 
  foreign" to myself or my predicessors, we have not had previous exposure
  to this particular form of misqualified energy.

  In LIGHT and LOVE
  I AM
  Talligai
         

    
> ...I volunteered to come here to assist in the birthing of Earth ...
    
    Talligai, would you please explain what you mean by the birthing of
    Earth. 
    
    regards
    	Martin

    re: .235 (Marcos)
    
    "Everyone of us evolves through similar cycles"
    
        Only the ones you know about...
    
    Frederick
    

    re:                      <<< Note 1034.237 by VAXRIO::MARCOS >>>

�Our occidental science now conforms to what the orient has spoken of for

�And it cannot be any differently because our heavenly Father is perfectly just.

Marcos,
     
    It seems to me (and, I believe, to occidental science as well :-)
    that speculations about our heavenly father are no more or less
    believable than tales of Metenarc.
    
    /bruce

    

    
    Marcos,
    
    In regards to the last few replies in this topic, I have read much that
    confirms Talligai's claim that all lifestreams do NOT evolve at the
    same rate nor need they incarnate. I believe that we as souls (for lack
    of a better term) have the choice to incarnate and learn our lessons in
    a more accelerated manner or to remain in the "spirit" world and learn
    and evolve more slowly. The choice is a result of the free will which
    is God-given. I see no dichotomy with this and a fair and equitable
    God. We are all given the opportunity, it is up to us to choose. 

    re: .243 (Marcos)
    
          I find your entry callous and inappropriate.  Whether that
    person is what you say or not is strictly conjecture at best.  You
    are hardly qualified to know what "is" or what that person "is."
    All of your information is nice, perhaps, and may even have
    application, but to categorically accuse someone of fitting into
    your scheme of things is patently unfair in this situation.  If
    I were you, I'd retract your entry and modify it without its
    personifications.
    
    Frederick
    

    THANK YOU MARCOS!!!!!  You expressed the truth so clearly and kindly. 
    I appreciate the research, thought, and time that went into your reply.
    
    I believe that to treat a "walk-in"'s pronouncements as accurate
    predictions of external events (such as the end of the world, the
    coming of a literal new age, etc.) is to participate in delusion and
    encourage the "walk-in"'s delusion of omnipotence.  This is why I have
    not posted any replies here until now.
    
    On the other hand, as Marcos so ably states, such a person may have
    valid insights to offer of an inner nature.  Given that our inner world
    or psychology governs what we experience, then those insights are
    important.  The world's great religious prophets (as alluded by Marcos)
    were arguably psychotic according to modern psychology.  That does not
    lessen the value of their teachings on how to live a richer life.  
    
    But I do have a problem with today's multitude of self-declared 
    prophets and the gullible who rush to sit at their feet.   In fact, 
    the prophet I am most apt to believe is the one who says, "You must 
    think for yourself and believe your own experience."  
    
    I think that the Galactic Brotherhoods and such, are merely a new form 
    of mythology, little different from the Gods on Olympus.  As 
    symbolism and containers of our psychic energy they are very potent.  
    But that is ALL they are.  To believe that they literally walk among
    us, dabbling in human affairs, is patently false.  
    
    Furthermore I think it is dangerous in the context of our society.  
    We have so much power in our hands, with our current technology; 
    if we do not maintain clear minds this is very dangerous.   
    
    Think of Cambodia's Pol Pot.  He convinced his followers that 
    Cambodia was returning to Year Zero, that Western and intellectual 
    influence was evil and had to be uprooted.  Despite his hatred 
    for technology, he used technology to destroy Cambodia.  I am
    NOT saying that Altrea-Iiisa-whomever is Pol Pot, nor that she is evil
    in her intent.  But I am saying that if we as a society externalize 
    psychological structures we are in grave danger given the power of the 
    tools in our hands.    I think her statements are valuable solely as
    representations of inner reality and inner values.
    
    There are societies that believe their Gods or Spirits are real, walk
    among them, and directly alter their lives.  They do so without any
    damage, right?  Notice that they are all small-scale and non-technical. 
    They are tribes of extended families not large impersonal nations. 
    This is the only way that such beliefs can be safely entertained.  
    
    Sorry to rain on anyone's parade.  It's not so much fun to be sober and
    rational.  It's fun to drive down the highway with an open six-pack and
    the radio blasting.  But is it worth the aftermath?  
    
    It's easy to think that someone (a "walk-in" or an extraterrestrial)
    has all the answers and that we need merely follow their instructions. 
    But therein lies the way of folly.  The real answers come from
    commitment - to family, to our individual well-being, to the health of
    the planet, to our work, whatever.  Change comes in many small steps. 
    It's not glamorous.  But it is what's true in the light of day.  I
    don't doubt that there is intelligent life beyond Earth, but I rather
    doubt that other species have all the answers, or are even necessarily 
    wiser.  If anyone has The Answer, then we are surely asking the wrong
    question.
    
    Laura

    re:              <<< Note 1034.246 by TNPUBS::STEINHART "Pixillated" >>>
                 -< Got the Answer, but what's the Question? >-
    
�    I think that the Galactic Brotherhoods and such, are merely a new form 
�    of mythology, little different from the Gods on Olympus.  As 
�    symbolism and containers of our psychic energy they are very potent.  
�    But that is ALL they are.  To believe that they literally walk among
�    us, dabbling in human affairs, is patently false.  
    
    If the "containers of our psychic energy" are not here among us,
    where are they?

�    Sorry to rain on anyone's parade.  It's not so much fun to be sober and
�    rational.  It's fun to drive down the highway with an open six-pack and
�    the radio blasting.  But is it worth the aftermath?  
 
    Nice innuendo.   Being "sober and rational" has brought us
    the Gulf war, Tiannenmen Square, Iran-Contra, pollution
    and destruction of our environment, and the death of spirit
    in most who work for or profit by the military-industrial complex.
       
�    But therein lies the way of folly.  The real answers come from
�    commitment - to family, to our individual well-being, to the health of
�    the planet, to our work, whatever.  Change comes in many small steps. 
    
    Commitment to family and individual well-being and whatever has 
    brought concentration camps to Israel (supreme irony).  See the
    current issue of _The New York Review of Books_  for a 
    horrifying first-person account.
    
    
    I don't understand why so many are so anxious to "prove"
    that Talligai is not what she says she is.   She has
    described a model that incorporates and explains her
    experience.   Psychological theories are also just
    models.   Talligai's model seems somehow to threaten many
    here, who thus want her to abandon her
    model and accept another, more socially acceptable
    and "sober and rational" model.   It seems to me that
    the insistence on conformity to the current model and
    paradigm is what allows things like the Gulf war and
    inhumanity in the name of national security.
                                                 
    If Talligai's comments or suggestions are valid, it doesn't 
    matter whether she is from Metenarc or not. 
    And I seriously doubt that anyone has thought "Oh, Talligai's
    from Metenarc...  I'd better do as she says..."
    
    /bruce

    
    
    I agree with you on this one Bruce.
    
    Carole

                                                                     
    Re.246
    
    Hi Laura,
    
    I don't recall Talligai saying she ever had all the answers...
    
    But, that's OK.  Hey, *someone* has to be sober and rational, right?
    Can't have everyone blissed-out at the same time, you know.  (;^)
    
    I'll bring in my copy of "Hands Of Light" by ex-NASA physicist Barbara
    Brennan, for you to look through.  See you in a few.  
    
    Cindy

    Re .245

    I think it will become apparent that a "walk-in" is psychotically-
    induced multiple-personality schizophrenia.

    I'm afraid that you did exactly the opposite. Your description of this
    condition exactly fits the symptoms of the disease, even down to the
    final point of being unable to accept the fact that disease is present.

    >What a "walk-in" has IS NOT a sickness or disease, but a simple
    >dis-order

    You appear to be in ignorance of the meaning of the word "disease".

    It simply means something that is stopping the normal functioning of a
    plant or animal. And I think that this condition is not what could be
    considered normal functioning. 

    Your attempt to use word "dis-order" is pointless as in this case both
    words have identical meanings.

    From the remainder of the note I can only conclude that rational
    thought processes are not your long suit. 

    Jamie.

  My, but we do seem to be on a string of character attacks, don't we?
  What ever happened to "turn the other cheek" and "repay hatred with
  kindness"? I had hoped this conference would be one place we could
  expect some higher standards of behavior. But I guess we're only
  human, huh? Only Ms Atkinson-Altraea-... seems to be able to refrain
  (consistently, I might add) from the sort of destructive comments the
  rest of us make. Psychotic or walk-in, we could learn something from
  her example.

    
    
    
    I agree.  Moderators, don't you think we are getting *very* close to
    some of these notes being construed as personal attacks?
    
    Carole

    Laura (.246)
    
    Your note of 'truth' appears very condensing and 'better than', I find
    it very offensive.  Perhaps in the future, you might trying putting 
    IMHO or I believe in front of your statements.  I had enjoyed previous
    replies you have entered in this notefile, but this 'lecture' on
    knowing what is true for all of us left me cold.  
    
    Thanks /bruce for your reply, it softened my initial reaction to Laura's
    note.  ;')
    
    Perhaps it is time for the moderators to step in...
    
    Ro
    

    I'm entering this for John D who wasn't able to access Dejavu from
    Switzerland today:
    
From:	ATSE::NSDC::DONALDSON    "the green frog leaps..." 15-JUL-1991 12:14:57.39
To:	ATSE::FLAHERTY
CC:	DONALDSON
Subj:	a favour

Hi Ro,
 
do you think you could do me a favour? Below
is a reply to topic 1034 in DEJAVU. Do you think
you can enter it for me? I'm going to leave soon
and probably before normal service is resumed.
 
Have a nice day.
 
Love John.
 
PS. My title was going to be "Danger - Neologist at work!"

Well, if I understand the concept of walk-in and/or channelling
then I think we'd have to coin a new word. Something like
'polyphrenia', I suppose. In other words, many-mind. 
 
I was trained as a psychologist and I can assure you that the
diagnosis of 'schizophrenia' is a *very* crude label (whether
it's useful is debatable too). Anyway, to come to
my point, I would be very unsure of making the diagnosis 
"this is schizophrenia" as opposed to "this is polyphrenia".
Even in person. After a lot of consultation.
 
What I propose is that we gently drift back to valuing
any interest or information we find in replies in this conference
and drift away from getting too involved in disputes with
no useful outcome. (We do agree that "she-is-one-she-isn't-one"
disputes aren't useful don't we?).
 
I really like this conference and I think it is at its most
useful/interesting when possibilities are opening. Not when, by
unsubstantiatable (? ;-)) labelling, we close options.
 
It's a place for considering ideas that most of society
thinks are...weird. Or even dangerous. It's not a place for
the straitjacket of square (as in "that's really square, man" ;-))
thinking.
 
Well, enough rambling.
 
There's plenty of love and light outthereinhere - have some. :-)
 
John D.

    set mode = moderator
    
    I'd like to remind people of the following, taken from the
    conference guidelines in note 1.*. There is also a suggested problem 
    resolution procedure contained in the guidelines for anyone who feels 
    they need to use it.
    
        2.  Speaking badly of others
                
            It can at times be hard to see how to discuss a subject of
            a belief, channeling for example, without offending someone. 
	    In fact, that may not be possible. What is possible is to 
            confine your discussion to the issues and not the person.
            
            Suppose that someone makes a statement which you feel
            is wrong. You could respond in any one of the following
            manners:
            
              1.  "You'd have to be out of your mind to believe that!"
              2.  "That statement is stupid."
              3.  "That statement is wrong."
	      4.  "That activity is not proper/morally inappropriate etc."
              5.  "I disagree with that completely."
                
            The first three are unacceptable. The fourth is unacceptable
	    also, unless it includes wording similar to "in my opinion" or
	    "I believe". Participants should not assume that everyone knows 
	    they are stating an opinion. Without this caveat, it appears that
	    they are imposing judgments. There is no reason to
            criticize the person or to ridicule the argument. If you
            disagree, do so in a way that takes into account the other
            person's views of the point under discussion and do so without
            ridicule.
        
    
    		- Bill Keefe (moderator)

	Wait a second!!!   :-)
	Ain't this gettin a little 'blown outta proportion'  ???
	I haven't  seen  the  Big T say she has taken Marcos' reply as an
	attack (can I call you the Big T ??  ;') 
	
	Marcos stated his opinion (quite nicely too, I thought).
	And then, ALL  RISE!!  Frederick spoke and Marcos deleted, edited
	and re-posted his reply.    Someone  agreed  with Marcos, and the
	next thing I know, its  taken  as a series of personal attacks on
	the Big T, by everyone but her.  %-}
	
	My bet is, the Big T is  laughing  at all this!  Being a schizoid
	myself, I can understand that.  :-)
	
	All be seated. Mal has spoken.  ;')

    Jay and everyone,
    
    These are some of the things that I have concern with.  Granted, they
    are not being aimed at me personally, but I am a contributor of this
    file and feel that I can raise these issues and my concerns.


  From .246

    Regarding Marcos...

    > THANK YOU MARCOS!!!!!  You expressed the truth so clearly and kindly.
                                           ^^^^^^^^^
 
    He expressed an opinion, *his* truth....not necessarily *the* truth.
    
    Regarding walk-ins...(T.)

    >I believe that to treat a "walk-in"'s pronouncements as accurate
    >predictions of external events (such as the end of the world, the
    >coming of a literal new age, etc.) is to participate in delusion and
    >encourage the "walk-in"'s delusion of omnipotence.  This is why I have
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >not posted any replies here until now.

    >But I do have a problem with today's multitude of self-declared 
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >prophets and the gullible who rush to sit at their feet.   
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    No one is claiming omnipotence nor are they claiming to be prophets.
    And I, for one, take exception to the general label of gullibility
    being put on the participants here.  You do not know the participants
    of this file well enough to place such a label on us.
    
    
    >Furthermore I think it is dangerous in the context of our society.  
    >We have so much power in our hands, with our current technology; 
    >if we do not maintain clear minds this is very dangerous.   
    
    So, you are saying that Talligai's participation here could be
    dangerous.  Well, I think *that's* dangerous.

    >Think of Cambodia's Pol Pot.  He convinced his followers that 
    >Cambodia was returning to Year Zero, that Western and intellectual 
    >influence was evil and had to be uprooted.  Despite his hatred 
    >for technology, he used technology to destroy Cambodia.  I am
    >NOT saying that Altrea-Iiisa-whomever is Pol Pot, nor that she is evil
    >in her intent.  But I am saying that if we as a society externalize 
    >psychological structures we are in grave danger given the power of the 
    >tools in our hands.    I think her statements are valuable solely as
    >representations of inner reality and inner values.
    
    Well, you *did* make the comparison.

    >There are societies that believe their Gods or Spirits are real, walk
    >among them, and directly alter their lives.  They do so without any
    >damage, right?  Notice that they are all small-scale and non-technical. 
    >They are tribes of extended families not large impersonal nations. 
    >This is the only way that such beliefs can be safely entertained.  
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    In your opinion.

    >Sorry to rain on anyone's parade.  It's not so much fun to be sober and
    >rational.  It's fun to drive down the highway with an open six-pack and
    >the radio blasting.  But is it worth the aftermath?  
    
    I sense some egotism here.  You are not raining on *my* parade.  I will
    continue to consider *many* different ideas, and I have brains enough
    and intuition enough to know what fits for me and what doesn't.
    Being too sober and rational can be dangerous to your health too,  you
    know.  Maybe it's just me, but I find the above very condescending.

    >It's easy to think that someone (a "walk-in" or an extraterrestrial)
    >has all the answers and that we need merely follow their instructions. 
    
    Where did you get this?  No one here has said that.


  From .250

    Regarding walk-ins...(and since we know of only one here, this is
                          referring to Talligai)

    >I think it will become apparent that a "walk-in" is psychotically-
    >induced multiple-personality schizophrenia.

    This is the statement that got me really concerned.


    Regarding Marcos...

    >From the remainder of the note I can only conclude that rational
    >thought processes are not your long suit. 
    
    
   
    Carole

    re: .260 (Carole)
    
         Thanks...I agree with you totally.
    
    Frederick
    

    
    Marcos,
    
    I'm not a moderator, but I am also concerned about personal attacks.
    I included the one you highlighted in my note as well.  I thought it
    was out of line.
    
    Carole

    
    Maybe we all need a vacation ;^)!!!!!!!
    
    Carole

    Carole (.260)
    
 >>   know.  Maybe it's just me, but I find the above very condescending.>>
    
    Nope, I found it condenscending also which is why I wrote reply .253.
    
    Thank you for taking the time to make a point by point explanation as
    to why some of us are having a problem with what is being written.
    
    I understood the point Marcos was trying to make in his initial note.
    Any difficulty I had in what he wrote, I felt might be that fact that
    since English is not his first language, that there could be a 
    misinterpretation of what he meant when his comments seemed to take
    on the edge of a personal attack against Talligai. But note .250 and
    the other one that insulted Marcos, were definitely personal character
    assassination.
    
    I agree with Carole that these issues should be raised so we can 
    clear the air and prevent this from being repeated.
    
    Ro
    

>                        -< "all levitate" now.    ;-) >-

	Frederick,
	
	Think you're up to it??
	
	;')

	.269  Ro   
	
>    Nope, I found it condenscending also which is why I wrote reply .253.

	yeah, 'cept in .253 you called it 'condensing'   ;')   ;')
	
>    clear the air and prevent this from being repeated.

	This gets  repeated  annualy (at least!).  I personally choose to
	laugh and let  it go.  Words on a terminal screen, that's it.  No
	more, no less.   :-)
	
	Jay

>   .254 > I was trained as a psychologist and I can assure you that the
>         diagnosis of 'schizophrenia' is a *very* crude label. I would be 
>         very unsure of making the diagnosis "this is schizophrenia" 
>         After a lot of consultation.
> 
>  I'd be more than interested to hear about your lots of consultation (with
>  actual quotes if possible).

Well, as Mike realised in .261, I meant that even if I
had spoken for a long time with Talligai+, I would be
reluctant to draw the conclusion that you find so easy.
*Even* outside the conference I would have this reluctance -
but inside the conference where we surely don't dismiss
'channelling' out of hand - I think it's part of the ground
rules.

All I've read from T+ is certainly strange and unusual 
but I'm willing to look at it for what it claims to be, 
without being too judgemental. Too see where that might lead.

Where might it lead? Is this an issue with you?

John D.

    Oh Jaybowie (.271) I see you're 'sharp as a tack' today - pickin' up
    on my typo!!!  Even with the mistake, I hope my 'point' was made.  ;')
    
    Only words, but 'sharp' ones which do 'cut'...
    
    Ro
    

	Robo Bowie
	
	You know I always hone my wit for you sweetie  ;')
	Your point  was made.  And I hope we've gotten over this for now.
	
	I've noticed this  string  now  contains  a  series of hidden and
	missing replies.  To  whoever  (in  the  future) reads up to this
	point and wonders what was  missed:  nothing!  ;') and where have
	you been ???
	
	Now if only the big T would come back.    Geez,  she musta missed
	all this. Or maybe not.   ;')
	
	Jayiisa  :-)  :-)

Good Afternoon Everyone,

The "Big T" has not missed one syllable of this discussion.

I am indescribably saddened that some feel the necessity to misqualify
their energy in these ways. These participants only wear the state of
their consciousness on their sleeves for all to see.

Remember, what you give out shall return to you multitudinous times!!!

In LOVE and LIGHT
I AM
Talligai

    

	Hey Big T!!! Welcome back.    :-)
	Actually, you never were gone, were you?
	
	Somehow it surprises me that you feel saddened by all of this.  I
	think its amusing.  I  would  think  you wouldn't care one way or
	the other, being neither amused nor saddened.  Why?  I don't know.
	
	;')
	
	And I don't look at it  as  a  misqualifying  of energy.  Each is
	doing what is appropriate for them at this time.  To you, it is a
	misqualifying of energy.  To them, it is what needs to be done so
	that they can move onto what is next.   I  include  myself in the
	"they/them". Of course.  :-)
	
	And I take exception to your consciousness on the sleeve remark!!
	;') Just kidding.  :-) I'm thick skinned.   So, how does it look?
	
	Movin on.  :-)  Movin on.

    Now how, precisely, does one "misqualify" energy?  And what sort
    of energy are we talking about here?
    
    Joel
    

    I showed a medic some of the "walk in" stuff and asked for an opinion.

    I was informed that schizophrenia is a rather sever mental disorder, or
    rather group of mental disorders, that tend to run a progressive
    course. This means that the delusion gradually takes over completely
    from reality.

    In the case of "walk ins" it appears that the personality fragmentation
    that can occur in this disease is in a very advanced state.

    I was also told that the first thing that medical students are taught
    about dealing with such patients is; "Do not argue with them!" It is
    impossible to extract them from their delusion by rational argument.
                 
    Jamie.

Re: .280, Jamie

>    I showed a medic some of the "walk in" stuff and asked for an opinion.

And you got the kind of answer you might have
expected. Do you wish to draw any conclusions?

John D.

  Excellent point! For another viewpoint, it might be interesting to ask
  a sufi, though I doubt I could recognize one to find one.

  Re Joel (what is "misqualifying energy"?), I'd like to try to answer
  that: When a person says or does something where the subconscious
  intent is to hurt, insult, demean, or discredit another person or
  group of people, this is one example of misqualifying energy. The
  "energy" which is being misqualified isn't recognized by physical
  science. It's "spiritual" energy. Misqualifying it means to taint it
  with "bad vibes" which disturb others (and oneself!).

  It's reasonable to take these notions figuratively, but the point
  being made is still valid -- that subconscious nastiness is still
  nastiness, and does effect others. Another important point is that
  while a person can claim to be "just stating facts", and nobody could
  prove otherwise, others can see that their intent was not nice. So
  it's first important to recognize that intent CAN be different from
  appearances, next to recognize when it actually IS different, next to
  WANT to do something about the nasty intent, and finally to BECOME
  CAPABLE of doing something about it (wanting something badly doesn't
  mean you can achieve it without help).

    Schizophrenia has been the subject of intense study during the last
    decade by Dr. Stan Grof, regarded by many as one of the foremost
    thinkers in the field of consciousness research.
    
    According to this research, many experiences or manifestations of
    consciousness from kundalini, to psychic phenomenon, to spirit
    communication, not understood by the traditional medical/ 
    psychotherapeutic field have been labeled schizophrenic or
    psychotic.   Some of these diagnoses have been grossly incorrect 
    and extremely harmful to the person diagnosed.  However, when
    encouraged and supported these experiences in some people have provided
    an higher integration of consciousness. 
    
    What Stan Grof and his wife Christian have been working on lately (as 
    documented in _The Stormy Search for the Self_ and _Spiritual
    Emergency_) is researching the ways in which these conditions manifest 
    and desiging more accurate diagnosistic methods, to cleave apart actual 
    schizophrenia from other kinds of psychological manifestations, hitherto 
    lumped into the category of schizophrenia and psychosis.
    
    It still seems to be a common reaction to regard anything not understood 
    or not fitting our own models of reality as somehow being dysfunctional,
    diseased and therefore threatening to us and therefore we must get rid
    of it or put it away.  I think this is an attitude that deserves
    continued careful examination and reflection.    
    
    Karen 

    Well said Mike and Karen (imho) and...besides...I never regarded taking
    a shower as a possible psychic experience until I read Talligai's notes
    ;-) and...	
    
    "walk-ins" are infinitely more interesting to talk to than "walk-outs"
    ...you know the type...
    
    	"The lights are on but there ain't nobody home" ;-)
    
    -Brian ;-)

    Re .281

    >And you got the kind of answer you might have
    >expected. Do you wish to draw any conclusions?

    As I am in no way medically qualified my conclusions would be of little
    value. However those who are used to seeing people with this medical
    condition tend to recognise it. I should point out that to the sufferer
    the delusion seems quite normal and rational.

    This particular one of "walk ins" is in no way different from others
    who suffer from multiple personalities.

    I agree that it might make life a lot more interesting if the delusion
    was true and this small insignificant planet was really the crossroads
    of the universe with every life form therein desperately trying to
    contact us. Alas, I at least, must live in the more hum drum world of
    reality.

    Jamie.

    re: (Mike)
    
    OK, I'll buy off on that explanation, and choose the `take it
    figuratively' option.
    
    re: (Jamie)
    
    Schizophrenia is a psychosis.  Dissociative personality disorder
    (multiple personalities) is more in the nature of a neurosis or
    hysterical reaction.  Schizophrenia cannot be treated by talk
    therapy.  "Multiple personalities" often can.  Schizophrenia
    is a catch-phrase encompassing something like ten distinct 
    disorders.  And so on.  The two conditions are not related and
    have nothing significant in common.
    
    As for Ms. Atkinson/Talligai, I regard as highly specious attempts
    to suggest that she is suffering from some sort of physical
    and/or emotional dysfunction.  None of us is qualified to make
    medical diagnoses.  The fact that some people, for whatever reason,
    experience hallucinations or are otherwise massively deluded, does
    not necessarily mean that this particular individual is so
    handicapped.  
    
    Now we may safely conclude that the chances she is from Metenarc
    in the Central Universe are vanishingly small.  Her virtually
    complete inability to offer even the slightest bit of evidence
    to support her extraordinary claims, if nothing else, should give
    us more than pause in evaluating her authenticity.  And this is
    just for starters.
    
    But is she, to put it bluntly, out of her gourd?  Though I have
    no way of knowing, I rather doubt it.  Please consider at
    least another, and far more prosaic possibility: charlatanism.
    
    Joel
    

    re: Schizophrenia and Walk-ins,
    
    If this is taking the direction of discussion of Psychiatric diagnosis,
    while not entirely out of place here, I suggest that it might get a 
    better response in QUOKKA::PSYCHOLOGY.  From what I dimly recall of it, 
    Anthropologist Gregory Bateson's Double-Bind model of Schizophrenia might 
    have aspects that would be interesting to relate to some of 'walk-in' 
    phenomena, for those who wish to view it in that kind of light.   
    
    I think many people in this forum are sensitive to the 
    unfortunately common use we tend to make of labels taken from Psychology 
    and used, sometimes inadvertently, as weapons of rhetorical combat, 
    rather than tools for understanding.
    
    						fwiw,
    
    							todd

Re: .287 and charlatanism - of course that could be
an explanation. This conference offers us sort of
'Turing' tests of the writers all the time. And there
could be many possible (infinite?) 'explanations' for 
what they say. But so what? Why do we subscribe to
this conference? It's interesting; one might learn something;
new perspectives; all that stuff. So, I don't see
why you wish to discredit one of the inputs.

Re: .285, Jamie

>    contact us. Alas, I at least, must live in the more hum drum world of
>    reality.

Well, you know, that 'reality' is much too big/strange/complicated
to comprehend with a physical/mental equipment we've got (leaving
aside questions of other ways of 'knowing'). But we can at least
occasionally leave our certainties at the door, can't we? For sure,
not always, but it's usually fun and sometimes one finds that
the certainty one had was a mistake, a now-useless structure,
and can safely be discarded.

Re: .286, Marcos

> You mentioned channeling John. This is something I am very familiar with and
> I am convinced that channeling has nothing to do with walk-ins. I even

I guess what I've been trying to address in this string
is the relevance of discrediting one of the noters - I
don't think it's...useful at all. As to the difference
between channelling and walk-ins - I'm still here reading! ;-)

(Oh and of course, what current psychiatric practice might
label 'schizoid', 'schizophrenic', 'personality disorder'
might in some cases be more...creatively looked at as
transformations).

John D.

PS. Totally off the point but anyway... the latest research
seems to point to a strong link between influenza and whatever
gets called 'schizophrenia'. About twenty years after the
big flu epidemics there is a corresponding 'epidemic' of
'schizophrenics'. Leading to the hypothesis that some foetuses
which are predisposed genetically to develop schizophrenia
are triggered by the virus into manifesting it.

Now I hand you back to the main program...

>    Schizophrenia is a psychosis.  Dissociative personality disorder
    
    	Thanks for that clarity, Joel.  Your classification sounds
    	vaguely familiar.  What resource are you using, btw ?
    
    								todd

    re: .290  (Todd)
    
    For a technical source, just trot down to a good university
    bookstore and peruse a copy of the standard diagnostic
    guidelines used by psychiatrists and published under the
    auspices of the APA.
    
    For a more popular source, Flora Rheta Schreiber, of course.
    She wrote _Sybil_ and _The Shoemaker_.  "Sybil" was of
    course a multiple personality.  Joe Kallinger, the shoemaker
    in question, was quite floridly psychotic and violent.
    
    All in all, I rather doubt any of us are capable of rendering
    medical opinions about our fellow noters.
    
    Joel
    

RE .285 (Jamie)

>    contact us. Alas, I at least, must live in the more hum drum world of
>    reality.

Erm..... Jamie....
I *do* recall that even *you* are wandering in other worlds than this one...
It was not even a *long* time ago......

:-):-)

Ari(e)

    
    How about we try to analyze the psychological makeups of Marcos and Joel
    for a little while?
    
    Might be kinda fun, actually...
    
    Cindy

  Cindy, I'm sorry, but I didn't find that funny. It's an example of the
  ostracism of skeptics which I complained about in another note, and it
  doesn't follow the "repay hatred with kindness" philosophy we
  supposedly aspire to in this conference. Whatever we may think of
  their behavior, we can all do better than to "misqualify energy" by
  such comments. I appreciate the humorous aspect of your intent, but
  feel it was negated by the critical undertones.

    
    Re. .287 Joel,
    
    I don't see anything in Talligai's writings that suggest she is a
    charlatan. In fact, everything I have read from her sounds very
    sincere. I think it's much more insulting to believe her a fraud than
    someone who genuinely beieves she is a walk-in. Whether she is or not
    is immaterial. Using some of your criteria for charlatanism, Talligai 
    has not yet attempted to "fleece" any of us, at least not through this
    medium, in fact has only given us some very good advice. What would be
    the point, if in fact what she gives is freely given?
    
    Regarding other notes, science has often in the past stuck round pegs
    into square holes simply because it did not at the time have the right
    information to correctly categorize them. What proof can science offers
    that they in fact are NOT walk-ins?
    
    
    Marilyn
    
    time. 

    re: .294  (Cindy)
    
    Be my guest.  I am sure your analysis will be as accurate
    as Marcos's.
    
    re: .296  (Marilyn)
    
    To take your last point first: it is not up to science to
    "prove" that walk-ins do not exist, or that any particular individual
    is not a walk-in.  It is the claimant's job to support the claim.
    
    Now why would I suggest the possibility of charlatanism?
    
    We are told that someone here is in fact an ET, from another
    universe altogether, inhabiting another person's body.  Out
    of whatever range of possiblities we might conjure, let us
    focus on a few elementary options here:
    
    1. The claim is true.
    
    2. The claim is not true.
    
    3. The claimant genuninely believes the claim to be true.
    
    4. The claimant does not really believe the claim to be true.
    
    Given the virtually total lack of evidence presented to support
    the claim, including the very existence of an area known as 
    "the Central Universe", as well as the very real practical difficulties
    involved in tooling around universes, I regard 2. (above) as being
    by far more likely than 1.
    
    This then leaves us to choose between 3. and 4.  
    
    Someone who is *not* and ET but *thinks* they are an ET is 
    clearly suffering from some sort of delusional state.  But it
    is not within my skill nor, so far as I know, Marcos's, to
    make medical diagnoses.  
    
    Someone who is *not* an ET but only *says* they are an ET is
    in this respect practicing charlatanism.  Now why would someone
    do that?  Well, it could be done for money.  Or for ego gratification.
    For fun.  For whatever.  But, again, not being a mind reader myself,
    I certainly cannot speculate as to motives.  I can only look at
    the possibilities and weigh them against what is more or less
    likely.
    
    As for whether or not authenticity "matters" we all seem to have
    had this discussion before.  And, as before, I am very firmly on the
    side of, yes, it does matter.  It isn't just a matter of packaging.
    The source of the information is very much involved in the truth
    of the information.
    
    If we have a cosmic visitor, placed here to prepare us for the
    coming disasters, then we had better listen and take it all
    very seriously.  If we have someone who, consciously or
    unconsciously, is not telling the truth, then we are dealing with
    information of little or no genuine content.
    
    Joel
    

  
  Re .285, etc.,
  
  Jamie, 
  
    As .293 said, even you have experienced situations that are not easy
  to confirm or explain. I've just re-read your "masterwork" and, although
  you provide the cop-out option that you were "cooked to the eyeballs with
  all sorts of drugs", the rest of that section suggests that this isn't
  the view that you believe deep inside. So maybe a few points stick out as
  unreasonable, maybe a few points ring true but what harm is there in
  leaving some mental leeway rather than just rationalising everything to
  fit the current model ? Open the drawer and look inside once more ...
  
  Frank

    Several points.

    Re Charlatanism. Yes I did most carefully consider this point. However
    as I said schizophrenia is a progressive disease. This means that the
    delusions keep getting more involved and intricate. Charlatans can
    seldom mimic this as, for them, it requires a great and continuous
    effort.

    Re Ari.

    Everyone has dream castles, role playing games are part of this. Only
    if you move into your dream castle and try to live there do the
    problems start.

    Now I would like to tell the tales of two people who have left this
    reality and entered their own world(s).

    The First is David Iccy. He was a soccer player and then became a
    sports reporter for BBC TV. He went from there into the Green movement.
    About this point he began to lose contact with the world that the rest
    of us live in. If you listened to him speak there was a sort of
    seamless transition from logic to nonsense and you could never actually
    put you finger exactly on the spot where the change took place.

    From the Greens he continued his progression, and it was on a TV chat
    show that he claimed to be the son of God, or rather the "Godhead". To
    be honest it was acutely embarrassing to listen to him talk. The next
    question put to him concerned his mode of dress, he was in a turquoise
    track suit. I will quote from memory his reply;

    "The Godhead is the source of all energy in this universe and like most
    sources of energy it is transported by radiation. The section of this
    radiation that promoted goodness is in the part of the light spectrum
    that we perceive as the colour turquoise. Thus by wearing that colour I
    can absorb more energy than others."

    Now everything up to the last sentence may or may not be the rubbish
    that it sounds, I cannot prove it one way or the other. However the
    last statement is 100% wrong. You see anything that we perceive as
    turquoise in colour actually reflects that colour it does not absorb it.
    The poor man is in need of treatment.

    Next is the lady, unnamed, who was used to demonstrate schizophrenia to
    my friend when he was a student. She was a nice quiet calm woman with a
    condescending smile for those who could not believe what she knew to be
    true. When questioned it turned out that she had painted the Sistine
    Chapel ceiling. It was mentioned that this feat was normally attributed
    to Michealangelo and it had been done a bit before her time. A
    condescending smile, and she said that she had indeed been him in a
    former life.

    As their questioning proceed it turned out that in previous lives she
    had been any major artist that you cared to name. Not only that she had
    been many film stars too. Pointing out to her that many of these film
    stars were still alive was rewarded with the condescending smile and
    the answer that she had just used their bodies to make the film.

    Gradually it dawned on the students that you could not reason with her
    and she would just slide past anything that interfered with her
    delusion.

    I cannot really see much difference it the impossible claims of the
    above two tales and the claims of a "walk in".

    Jamie.
                                        

    Re .299

    At no time did I ever claim that was inhabited by another being. 

    What you call a "cop out" was a statement of fact, if anything an
    understatement. I could not in anyway, shape or form be considered
    to have a clear rational mind whilst I experienced it. Not to mention
    the fact that I was unconscious for the entire time. It also appears
    to be a fairly common thing for people to experience when they are very
    close to death.

    One last point. Although I am in no way religious I do not think that
    there need not be something that follows this life. It is one of the
    surprises that they keep to the end and we will all get to find out one
    day.

    Sorry about having two replies in a row but the .299 was written as I
    was writing .300.

    Jamie.

Re: .300, Jamie

>    The First is David Iccy. He was a soccer player and then became a

Small nit - it's David Icke.

As for the rest. Suppose that the lady in question
*really is* God. She would claim and be correct in
claiming that she was Michelangelo and the film-stars.
Suppose something a little bit less - that she, for
whatever reason, sometimes exists in states of conciousness
in which she is totally identified with God - she knows
her identity with God. She would again say the same thing.
Of course, trying to explain that state (of God-identity)
to beings whose conciousness is completely identified
with a 3-D, little-ego humanness is totally impossible.

This is a problem common to all contemplative experts: 
Zen, Vedanta, Gnostic etc. They experience a state which 
gets described as BEING and NOTHINGNESS *at the same time*.

My own view is that in some cases, it is people
who experience their 'unity-with-everything' but
in an unprepared state who are unfortunately labelled
'schizophrenic' (or any other label). [This is not
to say, by the way, that brain function doesn't sometimes
just screw up].

So, at the risk of being repetitive, lets be a bit
more flexible in the context of DEJAVU and move on
to the next nugget of interest.

John D.

PS. By the way, there is a *really* excellent book
called "Eye to Eye" by Ken Wilbur (ISBN 0-87773-549-2).
Which discusses this problem at length. In other words
the difficulty (impossibility) of communicating between
physical, mental and transcendental states.

Re: Marcos

Thank you for your interesting explanation of the difference
between channellers and walk-ins.

John D.

    Re .302

    It much easier for me to believe that the lady in question was exactly
    what she seemed to be. You see I believe that people can be
    schizophrenic. However I cannot accept the fact that she was God as I
    don't believe in God. And bye the bye, although claiming to be God is a
    common delusion with this disease, this particular patient did not make
    that claim.

    I'm afraid that Occam's razor works against you. You should not
    unnecessarily complicate theories. The lady was, and as far as I know
    still is, a seriously ill mental patient.

    Jamie.

    re: .305
    
    Frederick
    

	re: .306
	
	I'm not so sure its "unfortunate".
	
	Jay

Re: .307
	
>	I'm not so sure its "unfortunate".
	
Awe, come on Jay, of course it's unfortunate.  Continuing to revisit 
ideas like "love your neighbor" is absolutely redundant.  Humanity 
learned all about the love thing centuries ago.  Isn't it apparent that 
we have learned all we need to know about love by now?

:-)
Jeff

	re: .308
	
	Silly me  :-\
	Well, if we all know love, I'm gonna learn lust.
	
	:-)
	
	Jay

>	Well, if we all know love, I'm gonna learn lust.
    
    	Finally, a neurosemantic reaction I can sink my teeth into. :-)
    
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    	"Dont argue with them."
    
    	Good advice about anyone with fundamentally different assumptions
    	than yourself, and who KNOWS their perceptions are valid, and
    	therefore will not be likely to even entertain the possibility of
    	mutually acceptable groundrules for meaningful communication
    	(UNLESS you are in the same group as them, of course) :
    
    		The Delusionary Mentally Ill
    		The Rabidly Angry
    		The Sex-crazed
    		Those on different Hallucinogens than you are at the moment.
    		Those of any Fundamentalist Religious persuasion
    		Randian Objectivists
    		Radical Marxists
    		Freudians
    		Behaviorists
    		Theosophists
    		Scientologists
    		Skeptics
    		Conservatives
    		Liberals
    		Most Animals
    		Many Plants
    		Anyone involved in something they proudly call 'debate'
    
    			anyone else have their favorite group that they've
    			learned not to argue with ?
    
    							todd

    
    RE: .310
    
    Geminis
    
    ;^)
    
    Carole

    
    RE: .312
    
    Ah, but there are a lot of *non-walkins* that always think *they*
    are right and know it all, too.
    
    ;^)
    Carole

    .310,
    
    re:  group(s) not to argue with
    
    
    
		Mals.
    
    

    also; Joys.
    
    PJ

    re: JEff a few back...
    
         Sure.  But lets not get a video camera to record the event.
    Instead, let's use word of mouth...pass the word to a guy who likes
    to make up stories, let him pass it on to his children and them
    to their children.  Make sure they keep trying to tell the same
    story, then, after several generations of doing this, pass this
    same story on to some old geezer who hates women, have him write
    this story down, tell him to tell everybody that this was the 
    official version, then have everybody go to war to defend this
    view.  Meanwhile, those that lose their wars will concede parts 
    of the story to those who have won the war who already have their
    own transcriptions of the story.  Then cause all the different
    possible factions of society spend many generations fighting and
    arguing over the story the way it really was.  When these groups
    all reach the age of maturity and have technologically proven
    themselves superior to all other humans past and present, have
    them re-interpret some of the stories from somewhere in the middle
    of all of that.  Make sure that none of these people ever heard
    the language that was spoken at that time and that none of them
    has even the slightest grasp of understanding of nuances nor 
    social standings at that time and then have this unique and handsomely
    qualified version given to the remaining squabbling masses still
    living and convince them that this was indeed the story as its
    truth be known.   
         Then take this whole bloody mess, put it in a blender, come 
    out with whatever you like, and present it as authentic, genuine
    love from the heart.
         No problem, Jeff.
    
    Frederick
    

re:          <<< Note 1034.319 by NOPROB::JOLLIMORE "Deep sea of love" >>>
                       -< ...and speaking of talons... >-

??

    Re.320 (talons)
    
    You had to be there, Dave.  
    
    Cindy

    re:  .322 (Marcos)
    
          And just as curious is that someone who complains about 
    the psychological makeup of an individual doesn't seem to have
    any trouble accepting words whose origins are nebulous *AT BEST.*
    What about the psychology of all the dozens of hundreds and thousands
    of people (99.9% men) who are providing you with the "words?"
         As an aside, the longer I look, the more amazed I am that
    any woman will go along with any "God-based" religion (although
    I'd criticize a Goddess-based religion, too, but for different
    reasons.)  I can understand fully why *men* go along with that
    stuff, but it's despairing nontheless.  
         Anyway, this has nothing to do with practitioners, more to 
    do with proselytizers and manipulators...
    
    Frederick
    

Re:  <<< Note 1034.318 by MISERY::WARD_FR "Going HOME---as an Adventurer!" >>>
                     -< ...and speaking of charlatans... >-

And you blame all that on the guy who said it's a good idea to love 
each other?

Jeff

Re: this topic

Perhaps a more descriptive name for this topic would be,
"Churning urn of burning funk."

%-/

    When it all dies down again, give me a shout and I'll come over and
    stir it up for you.
    
    Jamie.

    re: Jeff
    
        I admit that a "Christ consciousness" existed and I further
    acknowledge the unlikelihood that what he/they talked about was
    charlatanism.  Those who have lived beyond that energy, however,
    are a different matter...who all had agendas of their own, and
    often nefariously motivated.
    
    re: Marcos
    
         I'm sorry, your word isn't good enough for me.  As for channeled
    materials, as anyone can play the piano, not everyone can play like
    Horowitz.  Similarly, as anyone can channel, not every channel is
    worth something.  Further, I'm not into reading books whose translations
    have been doctored and distorted far beyond their original content,
    which was suspect in the first place.  I *will*, however, acknowledge
    that there are certain "messages" which have validity for all humans.
    However, it is an individualized choice to select that which fits from
    that which doesn't.  Yet even so, there are other choices and other
    sources which are at least as valuable.
    
    Frederick
     

    
    re: Frederick
    
    And the contemporary belief systems are pretty well flawed if one takes
    a step back and views them with a critical eye ;-) The big difference
    is that they are presented in such a way to appeal to the intellect of
    contemporary man thus making it more pallatable. 
    
    Chist supposedly said; "The letter killeth but spirit giveth life" and
    also "Search ye the scriptures for in it ye think he hath eternal
    life"  make of that what you will...
    
    What seems to hold true; It is easy to knock and critize other peoples'
    belief systems but much harder to give comfort and support in the quest
    for eternal truth...
    
    -Brian
    

Hmmm...Marcos from your last note and some of your other entries in this
string, I'm getting the impression that your objection to Ms. T. doesn't
have as much to do with her taking the "one-up" or superior position as 
your taking the "one-down" or inferior position.  You see, I believe we
all have strengths that we come into this world to share.  Each of our
gifts is different and none of them make any of us better or worse than
another.  After all we all come from the same Source.  Something to
consider anyway.

Nanci 

  Marcos, can you name the book?

    
    I went to see Talligai on Saturday.  
    
    Excellent session.   I feel great!   
    
    Cindy

You are most welcome, Cindy.

It is always my pleasure to facilitate a pleasurable experience for any of you.

I am so happy that you enjoyed the attunement and feel great!

Much love and light to you, Cindy.
Namasthe,
Talligai

    Talligai (or anybody)
    
    Just what does an attunement consist of?
    
    Beth (getting more and more curious about this, walk-ins, and accepting
    my higher self, which I think I've contacted, but keep in the shadows
    out of fear of insanity??? I also think I've just confused myself)

    Attunement, as I experienced it, is a balancing and energizing of the
    auric field. The book "Hands of Light" discusses the auric field in
    more detail. It feels great - peaceful and balanced - like an oil
    change for a car, it gets out the yuk stuff and the blah blobs.
    
    Wayne

    Beth,
    
    There are different methods of 'attunement' for instance polarity
    therapy is one way of working with the energy field.  I'm not sure,
    but I think Talligai uses sound (toning) and crystals.  Whatever
    method, they all make you feel wonderful (or 'in my experience' of
    them, they do!).   ;')
    
    Ro
    

Good Afternoon Beth,
    
 In my attunements I use a combination of copper tools (pyramid, etc>) crystal
 grids and body stones, toning, tuning forks and direct energy balancing of 
 the chakras and electro-magnetic field. It directly aligns you with your God 
 presence and moves the blockages in your electro-magnetic field.   

 I hope this helps.

 With LOVE in the LIGHT,
 I AM, 
 Talligai

    While channel-surfing the other night, I noticed a show
    (on Fox, I think) that had a piece about a woman who
    claimed to be a walk-in.   I think it was Friday night,
    probably around 8:30.   I also seem to recall that the show
    is produced by Ron Howard.
    
    Because of the surrounding chaos, I didn't pay a lot
    of attention to the show, but I think the woman
    claimed to be able to anticipate major earthquakes
    up to 72 hours before they occurred.  They flashed
    a table on the screen that purported to show her success
    in predicting about eight quakes during the last 10 years.
    
    They also said that the phenomenon, also known as "soul
    exchange," is optional for the soul involved, and that 
    walk-ins usually had the ability to use special powers
    for the good of humanity...
    
    /bruce

    
    I saw the same show. I also seem to remember that another producer, or
    maybe the director was Henry Winkler. Friday night was full of such
    shows, there was another on crop circles, which I enjoyed, since I'd
    never seen one on TV before, but only in badly reproduced photos.
    
    I had not heard of the walk-in phenomenon referred to soul exchange
    before, but it makes sense. Whether I believe it or not, I think 
    the jury is out on that one....

    You're correct, the producer is the Fonz!
    
    /b

    
    The title of the program is "Sightings" .
    
    Every Friday @ 9:00 on the FOX network.
      
    Excellent program !! Too bad that it's only 30 mins. long.
    
    
    /Todd
    

    
    I like the precept of the show (caught with the "primiere" episode, I
    think, about a haunted Toys 'R Us (tm)), although the re-enactment is
    pretty bad (at least it was for that episode).
    
    Beth

    Update 4/7/94:
    
    Talligai and Walter have had a blessed event:
    
    	Michael Kyel
    	born March 22, 1994
    
    Talligai sends Light and Love to everyone.
    

    blessed be!! peace and joy!!

    
    
    	good birthday......:)
    
    
    jim (3/22/69)