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Conference hydra::dejavu

Title:Psychic Phenomena
Notice:Please read note 1.0-1.* before writing
Moderator:JARETH::PAINTER
Created:Wed Jan 22 1986
Last Modified:Tue May 27 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2143
Total number of notes:41773

899.0. "Randi's Challenge..." by NEXUS::MORGAN (Snazzy Personal Name Upon Request) Sat Oct 29 1988 19:19

From:    Tim Maroney 
To:      All Psi-Believers                 Msg #142, 22-Oct-88 09:23pm
Subject: The Randi Challenge (1 of 2)
 
 
 This statement outlines the general rules covering my offer concerning 
 psychic, supernatural, or paranormal claims.  Since claims will vary 
 greatly in character and scope, specific rules must be formulated for 
 each claimant.  However, _claimants_ must agree to the rules set forth 
 here before any formal agreement is entered into.  A claimant will 
 declare agreement by signing this form before a notary public and 
 returning the form to me at 12000 NW 8th Street, Plantation, FL 
 33313-1406.  The eventual test procedure must be agreed upon by both 
 parties before any testing will take place.  I do _not_ act as a judge. 
 I do _not_ design the protocol independently of the claimant.  Claimants 
 _must_ identify themselves properly before any discussion takes place. 
 _All correspondence must include a stamped, self-addressed envelope_. 
 
 I, James Randi, will pay $10,000 (U.S.) to any person or persons who 
 demonstrate any psychic, supernatural, or paranormal activity of any 
 kind under satisfactory observing conditions.  The demonstration must 
 take place under these rules and limitations: 
 
        (1) Claimant must state clearly in advance just what powers or 
        abilities will be demonstrated, the limits of the proposed 
        demonstration (so far as time, location, and other variables 
        are concerned), and what will constitute both a positive and 
        a negative result. 
 
        (2) Only an actual performance of the stated nature and scope, 
        within the agreed limits, is acceptable. 
 
        (3) Claimant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, 
        written) of any sort gathered as a result of the testing may 
        be used freely by me in any way I choose. 
 
        (4) Tests will be designed in such a way that no judging 
        procedure is required.  Results will be self-evident to any 
        observer, in accordance with the rules agreed upon by all 
        parties in advance of any formal testing procedure. 
 
        (5) I may ask the claimant to perform informally before an 
        appointed representative, if distance and time dictate, for 
        purposes of determining if the claimant is likely to perform 
        as promised in the formal test. 
 
 (continued) 
 
---
From:    Tim Maroney 
To:      All Psi-Believers                        Msg #143, 22-Oct-88 09:27pm
Subject: The Randi Challenge (2 of 2)
 
 
        (6) I will not pay for any expenses incurred, such as 
        transportation, accomodation, or other costs. 
 
        (7) Entering into this challenge, claimant surrenders any 
        and all rights to legal action against me, as far as this may 
        be done by existing statutes.  This applies to injury, accident, 
        or any other damage -- physical, emotional, and/or financial 
        or professional -- of any kind. 
 
        (8) Prior to the commencement of the formal testing procedure, 
        I will give my check for the full amount of the award into 
        the keeping of an independent person chosen by the claimant. 
        In the event that the claimant is successful under the agreed 
        terms and conditions, that check for $10,000 (U.S.) shall be 
        _immediately_ surrendered to the claimant, in full settlement. 
 
        (9) A copy of this document is available free of charge to any 
        person who sends the required stamped, self-addressed envelope 
        to me requesting it. 
 
        (10) This offer is made by me personally and not on behalf of 
        any other person, agency, or organization, although others may 
        become involved in the examination of claims and others may add 
        their reward money to mine in certain circumstances. 
 
        (11) This offer is open to any and all person in any part of the 
        world, regardless of sex, race, educational background, etc., and 
        will continue in effect until the prize is awarded, or until my 
        death.  My will states that, upon my death, the award amount will 
        be held in escrow and in charge of the Committee for the 
        Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, in Buffalo, 
        New York, which is then empowered to continue the offer for a 
        period of ten years after my demise, after which time the 
        award amount can be used for whatever purposes it desires. 
 
        (12) Claimant must agree upon what will constitute a conclusion 
        that he or she does _not_ possess the claimed ability or power. 
        This rule _must_ be accepted by the claimant without reservation. 
 
 
 
        ___________________________          ___________________________ 
        Notary Public                        Signature 
 
---
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899.1Pleseant surprise.ERLTC::COOPERTopher CooperMon Oct 31 1988 11:1312
    I must say I am surprised.  Earlier versions of this contract
    were very different and were cleverly designed to assure that
    Mr. Randi would only have to give the prize out if he felt like
    it.  Most of the obvious holes in the previous contracts have been
    plugged.
    
    I have much too much respect for Mr. Randi's skills as a trickster
    to believe that he would not be able to work around this contract
    if he wanted to, but it appears to be much more on the up and
    up then the previous versions.
    
    					Topher
899.2REGENT::BROOMHEADDon't panic -- yet.Tue Nov 01 1988 12:2110
    I'm surprised you're surprised, Topher.  :-)
    
    The basenote is essentially what was published in _Flim-Flam!_
    in 1982.  Except that most of the contents of its paragraph
    4) is in this version's lead paragraph.
    
    Yeah, yeah, I know.  It's a quibble to say that 1982 is not recent,
    especially from someone of my age.
    
    							Ann B.
899.3More differences than that.ERLTC::COOPERTopher CooperTue Nov 01 1988 13:2995
    Not quite Ann, there are some subtle, but significant changes that
    might appear to be simply a change of wording.  The following was
    copied from Flim-Flam and posted to USENET some time ago by
    Jerry Schwarz of Bell Labs.  I haven't checked it against the original
    but it is consistent with my memories.
    
    The real improvements are in clause 4 -- where previously Randi
    could force a subjective judgement on his part into any procedure
    -- and in clause 8 -- where Randi is no longer directly the source
    of the check, it is turned over by a neutral party appointed by
    the testee.
    
    On further consideration, though, the contract is still rather weak.
    It is still not really clear whether the money (rather than the
    check, see below) is to be awarded on the basis of passing the
    agreed upon conditions or on the basis of demonstrating paranormal
    abilities.  A check rather than a cashier's check is specified and
    Randi could place a stop payment rather easily.  It would then be
    up to the claimant to bring Randi (who has a reputation of having
    a powerhouse stable of lawyers on retainer) to court to collect
    the $10,000.  Randi could then argue (whether successfully or not)
    that clause 7 makes such a suit improper and could block the obtaining
    of any evidence under clause 3, all the while arguing that the
    claimant failed to demonstrate paranormal abilities during the
    test even if they had passed the conditions which the *claimant*
    (not Randi) had agreed constituted a conclusive test pro or con.
    
    Anyway, here goes:
    
 
-----------------------------------
 
This statement outlines the general rules covering James Randi's
offer concerning psychic claims.  Since claims will vary greatly,
specific rules will be formulated for each individual claimant.
However, all claimants must agree to the rules set forth here,
before any agreement is entered into.  Claimants will declare their
agreement by sending a letter so stating to Mr. Randi. All
correspondence must include a stamped, self-addressed envelope due
to the large amount of mail exchanged on this subject. Thank you.
 
I will pay the sum of $10,000(U.S.) to any person who can demonstrate
any paranormal ability under satisfactory observing conditions.  Such
a demonstration must be performed under these rules and limitations:
 
(1) Claimant must state in advance just what powers or abilities will
be demonstrated, the limits of the proposed demonstration (so far as
time, location and other variables are concerned) and what will
constitute a positive or negative result.
 
(2) Only the actual performance of the announced nature and scope
will be acceptable, done within the agreed limits.
 
(3) Claimant agrees that all data, photographic materials, videotape
or film records and/or other material obtained, may be used by Mr.
Randi in any way he chooses.
 
(4) Where a judging procedure is needed, such procedure will be
decided upon in advance after the claim is stated.  All such
decisions will be arrived at by Mr. Randi and the claimant, to their
mutual satisfaction, in advance of further participation.
 
(5) Mr. Randi may ask that a claimant perform before an appointed
representative, rather than before him, if distance and time dictate
that procedure.  Such performance is only for purposes of determining
whether claimant is likely to be able to perform as promised.
 
(6) Mr. Randi will not undertake to pay for any expenses involved on
the part of the claimant, such as transportation, accommodation, etc.
 
(7) Claimant surrenders any and all rights to legal action against
Mr. Randi or any other participating agency or person, so far as may
be legally done under present statues, in regard to injury,
accident, or any other damage of a physical or emotional nature, or
financial or professional loss of any kind.
 
(8) In the event that the claimant is successful under the agreed
terms and conditions, Mr. Randi's check for the amount of
$10,000(U.S.) shall be immediately paid to the claimant, in full
settlement.
 
(9) Copies of the document are available to any person who sends a
stamped, self-addressed envelope to Mr. Randi requesting it.
 
(10) This offer is made by Mr. Randi personaly, and not on behalf of
any other agency or organization, though others may be involved in
the examination of claims submitted.
 
(11) This offer is open to any and all persons in any part of the
world, regardless of sex, race, educational background, etc., and
will continue until the prize is awarded.
 
(12) CLAIMANT MUST AGREE UPON WHAT WILL CONSTITUTE A CONCLUSION THAT
HE/SHE DOES NOT POSSESS THE CLAIMED ABILITY OR POWERS. This will be a
major consideration in accepting or rejecting claimants.
899.4I had to do arcane things at a bank anyhow.REGENT::BROOMHEADDon't panic -- yet.Wed Nov 09 1988 12:4031
    I understand both your objections, but I can't really agree with
    either of them.
    
    Even in _Flim-Flam!_ it was clear that he worked very hard to
    get agreement with the testee on what constituted a valid test.
    I think it's good that this is now part of the documented
    procedure.
    
    For the other point, I had to do a little investigation.  Randi
    always speaks of ~carrying around a check for ten thousand dollars~.
    He doesn't say he carries his checkbook; he always refers to *a*
    check.  Why bother?  Clearly, it must be a check that even a
    suspicious testee would find acceptable.  Something that is merely
    Randi's personal check would NOT be acceptable.  A bank check?
    But a bank check is already signed, so if anyone got his hands on
    it, it would be cashable.  This would be unacceptable to Randi,
    especially since he would rather die than admit he'd had his pocket
    picked or his hotel room burgled.  It can only be a certified
    check made out to "Cash".  A bank will certify a personal check,
    and hold out that money from the person's account, so the payee
    would be happy.  The payee line cannot be left blank; the bank
    won't certify such a check.  Yet the check is not good until Randi
    signs it, so Randi would be happy.
    
    And there's no way Randi could stop payment on a certified check
    before the payee got his hands on the money, since any bank would
    honor it "immediately".  (Whatever "immediately" is for a bank.)
    
    You're thinking about that guy who "read" records, aren't you?
    
    							Ann B.
899.5You can't prove his benevolence by assuming itERLTC::COOPERTopher CooperWed Nov 09 1988 13:3876
RE: .4 (Ann)
    
    Randi's public actions are, for the most part, consistent with
    the theory that he is benevolent and works only for the purest
    motives.  Nothing in this contract disproves this viewpoint,
    nor have I said that it does.
    
    Randi's contract is frequently put forward as evidence that
    Randi is indeed on the up-and-up.  It is not, at least by itself.
    What I was pointing out was that an expert in "Flim-Flam" would
    not find it too hard to wriggle out of this contract if (s)he needed
    to.  Randi is certainly has the expertise, it is all a matter of
    whether or not you wish to assume the purity of his motives.
    
    Rollins (see sTARBABY note), once a fellow member with Randi of
    the CSICOP inner circle, quotes him saying in connection with
    the Randi challenge "I've always got an out."  Frankly, while
    it doesn't sound unlikely to me, Rollins doesn't strike me as
    too trustworthy himself, so I am a bit ambivalent about taking
    his word for anything.
    
    I never disputed that he spends a great deal of effort negotiating
    test conditions with the testees (I was tempted to say "victims"
    :-).  Wriggling out of the contract is clearly something that
    Randi doesn't want to have to do -- if, as I personally suspect,
    he would do if pressed.  The appearance of fairness and the details
    of the negotiations are, after all, how he makes his living --
    by describing them in books and lectures.
    
    What we don't know is how many people have attempted to negotiate
    a reasonable set of conditions with Randi and been balked by
    his insistence on conditions that we would not really consider
    important?  Why are all the people tested by Randi on the challenge
    seemingly extremely unsophisticated?  Our only real source of
    information is Randi himself.
    
    Why talk about "the check" if it is not a cashier's check?  Two
    reasons occur to me.  First for the dramatic impact -- the sense
    of immediacy; the sense that if someone came up to him on the
    street and levitated a mailbox or something he would immediately
    whip the check out and turn it over.  Of course, this is contrary
    to the nature of his challenge which requires careful setting up
    of the conditions under which the test is to take place.  Frankly,
    given the nature of his challenge I have to ask why he would carry
    the check on his person at all.  (I have been told by a source I
    consider reliable, but have not confirmed it, that he was asked to
    show the check once when he was on the (I think) Merve Griffen show
    talking about something else and refused pointblank).  The second
    reason is obvious in this context -- so that people will assume
    that it is a cashier's check and that it actually is covered by
    some funds.
    
    I am quite willing to listen to evidence that the check is
    uncancelable, but I will not simply assume it is without evidence.
    
    By the way, why would Randi, assuming for argument that this is
    a scam, bother testing anyone who is suspicious?  Naive and
    unsuspicious testees are easy enough to come by.
    
    I wasn't specifically thinking of the record reader, though I
    have my suspicians.  I'm told that when Randi describes the
    incident now, that he claims that the man understood in advance
    that he wasn't up for the award.  But I am pretty certain that
    he did not mention that very important point when he first described
    the incident in SI.  He simply said that while the man passed the
    test conditions that he hadn't won the prize because Randi didn't
    believe that he used paranormal means.  Perhaps Randi was just
    careless in his description or perhaps not.
    
    More important was Randi's behavior during the test according to
    his own account.  He felt absolutely no compunction at all about
    violating the carefully agreed on conditions of the test.  After
    all, it did make a better story when Randi threw some "curves"
    into the test.
    
    					Topher