| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
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| 890.1 | Good analogy!! | RAVEN1::PINION | Havanna Daydreaming..... | Tue Oct 18 1988 16:13 | 12 |
| RE: Cheryl
You're right about putting you're inner most feeling into
words. It's not an easy task! I only wish I could verbalize my
beliefs as you have.
I'll keep this short. I concur with everything you have said
and I like the way you said it. Basically, *All* my beliefs come
down to Creating your own reality which you have said quite eloquently
(sp???). Thanks for your thoughts!!!! ;-)
Scott
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| 890.2 | stealing from the jews again ;-) | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | DO WHAT THOU WILT | Wed Oct 19 1988 06:31 | 29 |
|
RE: .0
Thats an interesting concept. It is very similar to the Tree
of Life or Kaballa. (see my note 729.70, if you drew lines connecting
all the little *'s you would have a diamond)
> Is this why some of us are on a more spiritual path than others?
Well, I think some people are caught up in one facet and only
can see there color.
As far as Negative or Positive, Well I guess it is the same
as the dif. between Black Magic and White Magic. I believe a person
involved with the Black stuff tries to USE the system. White Mages
strive to BE the system.
Do we all end up back at Kether or God? (top of the diamond).
Well we are all brothers and sisters of Light or Darkness so I guess
we do.
If we all end up in the same place, why bother?
Well there is a certain enjoyment in exploring/discovering
creation by exploring yourself.
Take care
Craig
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| 890.3 | .2 GET OUT OF HERE!!! | USRCV1::JEFFERSONL | HOLY GHOST POWER!!! | Wed Oct 19 1988 09:47 | 13 |
| RE:2
I really, don't believe she meant her question to go that way...
I don't agree with that!
i agree that everyone is given a certain measure of "spirituality"
in the form of a gift. It's not how much they have that counts,
it's how they use it: remember in the bible, they that were given
differant measures of talents?
LORENZO
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| 890.4 | to bother or not to bother? | FHQ::OGILVIE | The EYES have it! | Wed Oct 19 1988 12:27 | 22 |
| RE: .2
>> Do we all end up back at Kether or God? (top of the diamond).
Well we are all brothers and sisters of Light or Darkness so I guess
we do.
>> If we all end up in the same place, why bother?
************************************************************************
Craig,
I would believe that brothers or sisters of ..Darkness.. may NOT end up at
the *same* place, depending on their intensities of darkness connection.
and I'm not sure what you mean by: why bother?
Generic *you* already decided to *bother* when you came to this plane,
altho it sure gets damn frustrating as to what today's purpose is, knowing
what tomorrow's purpose should be. :-)
Cheryl
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| 890.5 | | GENRAL::DANIEL | still here | Wed Oct 19 1988 13:33 | 21 |
| Craig, I find myself agreeing with you. Different measures of talents...each
part of the Whole. The parts construct the Whole. And like a hologram, each
part *is* the Whole.
Do the Dark Brothers reach Kether? Or do they use Kether? Interesting
thoughts. I won't even pretend to have an answer at this point. Not even one
for myself.
Re; "why bother"...one of my friends and I always used to end up saying "It
doesn't really matter!" while laughing our fool heads off. His then-sweetheart
was a good friend of mine (she still is; his new wife doesn't like for him to
have female friends, darn the bad luck) and she and I used to get in to the
heavy-duty conversations about Spirit, the Course in Miracles, Letting it Be,
Trying to Change It...(you get the idea) and still, he and I would come up
with "It doesn't really matter!" What this means is, no matter what you think
or how you perceive it, what Is, Is...and that's all there needs to be. What I
do about it is up to me. How I perceive it through my filters affects and
shapes my reality, but doesn't change It.
Love and Light
Meredith
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| 890.6 | Wow! | RAINBO::R_BROWN | We're from Brone III... | Wed Oct 19 1988 20:04 | 10 |
|
Concerning .0:
Cheryl: Your entry has, in a roundabout way, described one of the
central themes of Kabalah.
Spiritual truth is universal.
-Robert Brown III
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| 890.7 | it eventually all boils down to "0" | USACSB::OPERATOR_CB | DO WHAT THOU WILT | Thu Oct 20 1988 02:55 | 29 |
|
RE: .3
Well I think the bible should have read..."How much you use,
decides how much you have."
Explored spirituality leads to increased spirituality, (I
disagree that we are given different amounts) increased spirituality
leads to a great desire to explore your entire self, and creation.
Repressed spirituality (thinking I only have so much given to
me so I will keep it hidden and safe in the ground and await Kether/
Gods return) By a repressive system or by ones self leads to a
depressing unwillful person who expreses fustration in areas such
as Sex, Unorthodox beliefs, and others Ideas about spirituality.;-)
RE: .4
I think in the very distant distant future, Dark brothers will
turn and be apart of Kether again. What choice have they if there
is nothing else? I dont know how or why or have any proof, it just
seems that It has to all come back to where it began eventually.
IF this is so..I came to the logical question...If we all end
up at the same place...EVENTUALLY...."why bother" doing anything
spiritual?
I answered myself in saying...paraphrased..."There
is a joy in discovering the systems/diamond and being part of them/it."
Craig ;-)
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| 890.8 | RIDING A COSMIC WAVE?? | FHQ::OGILVIE | The EYES have it! | Thu Oct 20 1988 10:44 | 17 |
| RE. 7
I "sense" the feeling, by what you mean "why bother"...if we all
end up at the same place anyway. I don't mean to be critical, :-),
but why feel that one has been caught by some cosmic wave and just
let oneself float the tides. Our "lives" here, on this plane, are
significant ones (for whatever reason), and *I* can honestly say,
I don't want to come back here again (even tho I was informed that
I have at least one more incarnation here, oh yuk).
My interpretation only....is that "heaven" is every where else and
hell is here on Earth and it's all in what we make of it....but
I'm sure there is a cast of thousands who would disagree with THAT
statement.
Cheryl
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| 890.9 | Round goes the wheel - or was it the diamond ? | FNYHUB::PELLATT | Waiting for the winds of change... | Thu Oct 20 1988 14:16 | 19 |
| Re .0 and others.
A familiar "truth" but beautifully stated. Thanks.
>> My interpretation only....is that "heaven" is every where else and
>> hell is here on Earth and it's all in what we make of it....but
Well, IMHO, I think Heaven *AND* Hell are right here on Earth... and
***it's all in what we make of it***.
I think I'll keep coming back until I finally learn that the everyday,
physical existence that can cause me pain is not what is really
important. What is important is *us* ( you, me and all that is )
and the eternity of the spiritual existence.
When I get that down, I ( we ? ) will have no further need for the
lessons of this plane and can move on.
FWIW, Dave.
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| 890.10 | It IS and we're IT! | ORION::HERBERT | Bring on colored rain! | Mon Nov 07 1988 11:46 | 28 |
| I tend to see everything as being connected...all people, all
thoughts, all levels, all planes...everything. So, what's
better about one place over another? Why wouldn't someone
want to come *here* again? If one can't make *this* place,
level, whatever...wonderful, what makes one think they could do
it elsewhere? I sort of view it as a challenge to really make
the best of where I am. I don't even think about moving on to
somewhere else. There's so much more (than I know) right here!
I'm always moving (naturally)...but how can I define my
movement and these places I move "to and from"? I feel that
right here is connected with everywhere else. Right here IS
everywhere else. There's no where *else* for me to go. It all
blends together...like one dream into another.
I struggle with my path quite a bit. It would be comforting to
think of it as having an "end", so that I could disassociate
myself with it (and all the pain), and I could dream of moving
on to a "higher" place. But I would like to continue exploring
*this* place (as I see it)...instead of thinking about my possible
experiences somewhere else, because that is something I couldn't
really have much of an understanding about -- and if it's in my
imagination, it's already part of me anyway. We're always wanting
to be somewhere we're not. I think when we're happy with where we
are, we'll see that we're already everywhere.
Any comments?
Jerri
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| 890.11 | Bird kernels, navel captains, gravel shufflers... | WRO8A::WARDFR | Going HOME--as an Adventurer | Mon Nov 07 1988 12:24 | 37 |
| re: .10 (Jerri)
Hi, again (long time ago,)...
I agree with your "here and now" attitude. The ideas you lay
forth are valid for me, too. There is a bit of a problem with some
of the concepts, however. IFF you believe in the here and now,
then that would automatically preclude moving on in the way you
have characterized it. If there is no time and space (as I believe
the case to be) and therefore all of reality is "one massive dream"
as you have stated and I tend to believe, then one doesn't ever
*really* move away from (as in leaving it somewhere else) anything
at all. What I believe is that we move, not linearly (as your
fear implies) but in an expansive or contractive manner. What this
means is that all the other lifetimes, lessons, levels, etc., etc.
are not "gone" but that we have expanded/contracted away/beyond/past
one and moved toward/nearer/closer to something else. YES, this
lifetime can be fulfilling, as exploring my own belly button was
fulfilling when I was 8 months old...and nothing but nothing is
"wrong" with that. However, once you've moved from the belly-button
(say, e.g.) and discovered your genitals (keeping this within the
same context and analogy) you are not likely to return to the
belly-button (at least I wasn't ;-) .) The belly-button and the
genitals are all part of the same "whole." Maybe some day you
return to the belly-button to remember, etc. what that was...but
hopefully you will move on (even past the genitals...;-) ;-) .)
So the point is that it isn't really saying something is better
than something else; it's admitting or acknowledging or having
awareness that things exist beyond the place where you are and
then consciously reaching for them...AT THE SAME TIME as one is
fully enjoying the place and time that exists for them. We have
sort of bantered this around before...am I still not making my
understanding clear? This is not intended as a discounting of
any other related ideas...but hopefully as a bit of an expansion.
Frederick
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| 890.12 | A title for my reply | ORION::HERBERT | Bring on colored rain! | Mon Nov 07 1988 17:01 | 93 |
| Re: .11
> Hi, again (long time ago,)...
Greetings! ^ Miss me?? ;^)
Perhaps I did not explain my feelings as well as I thought, based
on your reply.
Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you...but I will attempt to
respond to some of the things you said.
> IFF you believe in the here and now, then that would
automatically preclude moving on in the way you have
characterized it.
Perhaps I did a poor job of explaining it.
> If there is no time and space (as I believe the case to be)
and therefore all of reality is "one massive dream" as you have
stated and I tend to believe, then one doesn't ever *really*
move away from (as in leaving it somewhere else) anything at all.
That could be one way of looking at it.
> What I believe is that we move, not linearly (as your fear implies)
Excuse me?
> but in an expansive or contractive manner. What this
means is that all the other lifetimes, lessons, levels, etc., etc.
are not "gone" but that we have expanded/contracted away/beyond/past
one and moved toward/nearer/closer to something else.
I do not think that I focused on linear movement. I prefer to think
in terms of awareness of our surroundings (all that is), rather than
ANY kind of "movement" -- because when people talk of movement, they
often are rating it somehow. "Look at where I was, and where I am
now!" or "Look at where I'm going!" That seems like a game for the
ego. That is what I am cautious about. If that's the game someone
wants to play, fine...but it's not all there is.
> YES, this
lifetime can be fulfilling, as exploring my own belly button was
fulfilling when I was 8 months old...and nothing but nothing is
"wrong" with that. However, once you've moved from the belly-button
(say, e.g.) and discovered your genitals (keeping this within the
same context and analogy) you are not likely to return to the
belly-button (at least I wasn't ;-) .) The belly-button and the
genitals are all part of the same "whole."
Interesting. Thank you for explaining it for me. However, if the
belly-button and the genitals ARE all part of the same "WHOLE"...and
I'm talking about experiecing the "WHOLE" from WHEREVER...then why
are you playing with your genitals and pretending it's an advancement
beyond your belly-button?
Sorry...I couldn't resist. ;^)
> So the point is that it isn't really saying something is better
than something else; it's admitting or acknowledging or having
awareness that things exist beyond the place where you are
I admit that things exist that I am not aware of. I do not think
that those things are necessarily inaccessible from where I am OR
that I can project where they would be accessible from! <-- Unless
they are accessible from everywhere.
Other planes might have their Heavens and Hells too. If they
didn't, then you ARE saying >something is better<. They might just
be a *different way* to experience. So I wouldn't want to
necessarily TRADE one for another. I want to experience them all
at various times. That's why I don't think I have to go somewhere
else for things to be better. Just my opinion right now.
To believe that some planes are better than others...is like religion
to me. Maybe the "higher experience" we're working towards can be in
our own backyard, and different planes have little to do with it.
Maybe it's possible to have that higher experience, that oneness and
completeness, by developing who you are, independent of what plane
you're on.
> We have sort of bantered this around before...am I still not
making my understanding clear?
Maybe you are. Maybe I just don't agree with it.
> This is not intended as a discounting of
any other related ideas...but hopefully as a bit of an expansion.
Thanks.
Jerri
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