Conference hydra::dejavu

    
    Ill take a swing at answering this one...
    I will be using an analogy that isn't great but any analogy falls
    apart under...ect ect..
    
    Q. Do you/we need protection/protectors in society/everyday life?
    	(Parents ect. and....pause...police?  ;-})
    
    Q. Are there individuals in society that would/could harm you if
    	those protectors wern't there? (mass murderers, ect)
    
    Q. Chances are you hopefully will never use need (or run into)
    	this protection but arn't you more comfortable knowing the
    	protection is there? (that could go either way of course...but.)
    
    Q. Are you able to function better in society and concentrate on
    	your day to day activities know that this protection is working/
    	present?
    
    I guess the protection, in the case of opening yourself, is more
    of a method of taking away the fear by imagining "guardians" around
    you. This allows you to direct your energies into the task goal
    you are trying to accomplish without the distraction/fear of
    "beasties".
    
    Maybe there are besties, maybe there arn't . Maybe the protection
    works and maybe it is a delusion.  It does seem strange that soo
    many types of protection work, (prayer to God,Jesus,White Light,
    Star Ruby :-), ect ect,) I guess its more the concept not the source,
    unless you count yourself as the source. But Ill stop my babbling.
    
    Hope I understood your question.
    
    Craig

    I appreciate your reply.  Maybe my question is better phrased: Are
    there evil beings out there with malicious intent from whom we need
    protection? I don't feel I need to fear anything that belongs to
    the All-That-Is because I wouldn't hurt myself in that way.
    
    But first, let me answer your questions as I feel.
    
    > Q. Do you/we need protection/protectors in society/everyday life?
    >	(Parents ect. and....pause...police?  ;-})
    
    > Q. Are there individuals in society that would/could harm you if
    >	those protectors wern't there? (mass murderers, ect)
                                                                
    We do have protectors in our society; that is true.  As to whether
    a "bad" person can *really* harm me, or not, I'm not so sure.  I
    can be raped, maimed, and killed, (hopefully not all three at the
    same time or that would be a really bad day ;-) ) but my soul 
    continues to exist.  So has any real harm been done?  And I guess 
    I think the person who did these horrible things to me (my body)
    has to work through his/her problems by him/herself.
                                       
  >  Q. Chances are you hopefully will never use need (or run into)
  >  	this protection but arn't you more comfortable knowing the
  >  	protection is there? (that could go either way of course...but.)
    
  >  Q. Are you able to function better in society and concentrate on
  >  	your day to day activities know that this protection is working/
  >  	present?
   
    I don't know the answer to these since I have never been without
    the protection.
    
 >   I guess the protection, in the case of opening yourself, is more
 >   of a method of taking away the fear by imagining "guardians" around
 >   you. This allows you to direct your energies into the task goal
 >   you are trying to accomplish without the distraction/fear of
 >   "beasties".
  
    I can understand this because I can easily see how frightening some
    of these experiences must be.  For example, if I were in a plane
    about to crash, I could become very "religious" in an instant. 
    And you would see me chanting the Lord's Prayer without a second
    thought.  (And I haven't said it for years!)  Heaven knows what
    my response would be to an entity existing on other plane who decides
    to converse with me.
    
    So are you saying that my requests for protection (Yup, I use them
    but the inconsistency struck me funny) are to remove the fear of
    the unknown?  
    
    Or is there something more?  Are we really afraid that an evil, evil 
    entity has the power to divert our energies to some horrible deed?
    
    What do you think?

    

      Hi, Jill.
    
         I think that a distinction might be made between a reality
    we allow versus one we direct.  In either, especially in one that
    is allowed, "evil" can and does exist for us.  While perhaps at
    some ultimate stage we do not experience "evil", we do at "these
    levels."  Do we have to?  I do not think so.  Do we have fear?
    Definitely.  Should we turn our backs on fear? No.  How about
    turning our back to evil?  That depends...many times, yes...
    no, if we aren't *sure* of how it got there because unless we
    are aware of how it got there it is bound to stay or return, for
    something (within us, I believe) put it there.  So, while the
    All-That-Is is not a danger to us, just as you say, for us on
    this physical journey there are clearly hurdles standing in the
    way...hurdles, incidentally, that we put there.  So, until we
    figure out how to *remove* the hurdles, we might want to wear
    knee pads to protect our knees as we hit them.
    
    Frederick
    

    Re .0 (Jill):
    
    From your response in 855.19, I guess I'll have to take a stab at
    responding here.
    
>I guess I'm working from the premise that we're all part of All-That-Is
>I'm not sure why I would need protection from something that is another 
>part of All-That-Is as well.
 
    Well, this is a good jumping-off point.  Let's be completely mundane.
    Using your model, if I am "part of All-That-Is," and a rattlesnake
    is _also_ part of "All-That-Is," then using the logic that one part
    wouldn't hurt another part, I shouldn't fear rattlesnakes.
    
    Part of the problem is that if you accept a completely "created
    reality" as your model (as in "I create my own ...") then being
    in full control of your reality would _preclude_ harm, etc., unless
    you "permitted" it.  However, if there's an objective reality, then
    you could be impacted by outside agencies anyway, whether or not
    you wanted to.  Actually, the _reductio ad absurdum_ of this model
    is solipsism -- where you are the only reality (the entire rest
    of the world is complete illusion).
    
    The standard JudeoChristian world view posits supernatural entities,
    some good, some evil, some neutral.  Other religions/belief_systems
    also do.  In addition, and outside the purely religious context,
    there are those who believe in ghosts, etc.  As with non-ghostly
    supernatural beings, ghosts could be good, bad, or amorally neutral.
    
    Now suppose you want to be a "channel."  This intrinsically requires
    a belief in spirits (otherwise you'd be a little silly: "I don't
    believe in spirits, but I'll try to channel one.").  If you believe
    in spirits, then you ought to consider that if they exist, they
    might not all be benign (as not all critters are benign, such as
    rattlesnakes); while they might not [or might!] be malefic, they
    might be hostile if approached improperly.  Further if there _are_
    malefic ones, they might be the first in line to do harm to vulnerable
    channels.
    
    Re .2:
    
    >I appreciate your reply.  Maybe my question is better phrased: Are
    >there evil beings out there with malicious intent from whom we need
    >protection?
     >...
    >Or is there something more?  Are we really afraid that an evil, evil 
    >entity has the power to divert our energies to some horrible deed?
     
    The possibility exists. Think of it as "safe sex": it doesn't hurt
    to take precautions.  They might not be necessary, but why take
    the chance?  BTW: germs are also part of All-There-Is, and we [ought
    to, anyway] take precautions against them.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    re: .4 (Steve)
    
 >   The possibility exists. Think of it as "safe sex": it doesn't hurt
 >   to take precautions.  They might not be necessary, but why take
 >   the chance?  
 
    This response feels most comfortable:  We don't know for sure, but
    it couldn't hurt. 
             
    Since starting this topic, I have also been pointed to note #394
    on Invisible Enemies.  I'm going to read all the responses there
    to see what folks think.  
    
    Because of circumstances with my husband's family, I have recently
    been faced with the idea that evil, indeed, does exist. (No, they're
    not evil but they relate stories of a person who may fit this
    description.)  The idea has been so completely foreign to me until now
    that I wanted some ideas and opinions on the concept of a person
    or entity being evil.
    
    Jill
    
    

    
    RE: .2 
    	Perhaps a "bad" (I hate that word) cant harm you but I am sure
    	it/he/she/they can disrupt your day/current project.
        
    
    
    	"Heaven knows what my response would be to an entity existing
    	on another  plane who decides to convers with me."
    
    	Or how-bout if it just shows up for a visit?
    
    
        "So are you saying that my requests for protection are to
    	remove the fear of the unknown?"
    
    	No, but mine are used in this fashion so that once the protection
    	is set up I can focus my all into what I am doing/working on.
    
    
    	"are we really afraid that an evil, evil entity has the power
        to divert our energies to some horrible deed?
    		
        I dont know if "we" are. :-)
    	But I do know that I am afraid/fear that an evil entities power
    	would be flashy/great enough to awaken greed for power and start
    	a quest for individual immortality ect and tend to make me forget
    	The Law.
                
    	Are there "evil" beings? if there are that is their problem/choice.
    
    	Are there "good" beings? Ditto

.4 (Steve Kallis)

The rattlesnake is *indeed* part of 'All-that-is'. While I think you
should respect the rattlesnake, there is no need to fear it.

And yes, the entire rest of the world is complete illusion.

Jay

< Note 857.7 by FSLENG::JOLLIMORE "For the greatest good... " >

>And yes, the entire rest of the world is complete illusion.

I agree.  I think of it as a "physical dream".  We are just the stars of
own personal dramas.  All of our personal dramas overlap in an extremely
complex manner.

		Dave

    
    And so it is indeed, from my spot on the stage...
    
    Gloria

    Reply to .0,
    
    Protections. Protections against what? whom? why?
    
    Science tells us that at the lowest level everything is energy.
    I'll defer to Steve, Topher and Earl to describe how this energy
    gets to be seen as matter. I don't really understand the theory quite
    yet.                     
    
    Hence in my worldview things that are "evil" take energy from me
    against my will or in a damaging, unatural way. "Good" things leave
    me alone or participate in a positive, two way energy exchange.
    
    Steve's snake could take my energy away if I place myself in an
    unnecessarily risky position. The snake is not feared, but I'm
    certainly not going to tempt it to natural defences.
    
    At other levels there could be energy organizations, energy systems,
    perhaps energy beings with differing grades of consciousness. I
    generally operate under the assumption that they do exist. A good way
    to demonstrate this is to look at the full spectrums of sound and
    light. Humans only perceive a limited small part of these spectrums.
    
    Part of the chaos theories is the theory of dissipative structures.
    Basicly this theory states that in highly stressed open energy systems 
    the stressed energy system reorgainzes itself to the next higher step in
    complexity in complete defience of the second law of thermal dynamics.
    
    Now think of the most stressful open energy systems in the Universe.
    The planet earth however small is a great demonstration of this theory.
    However if the theory holds true for the planet then some really wierd
    energy organizations exist within stars, star systems, neutron stars, so
    called black holes, pulsars, etc. Perhaps these 'wierd' energy
    organizations can exist in space, perhaps on earth. We can't see
    all the way up and down the spectrum of light. We could be missing
    many life forms because we aren't looking in the proper areas of
    the light spectrum.
    
    It has been specualted in the past that planets and stars are conscious
    in their own way with planet and star "thinking thoughts" taking 1000s
    of years. 
    
    To bring this back to the subject it is entirely possible that even
    limited intelligent energy forms are created and nurtured in Nature.
    Some people call these elementals, some spirits, some angels, some
    demons, and still others energy beings. 
    
    And it may be that the model presented in nature is that some open
    energy systems absorb other open energy systems. Bigger fish eat
    littler fish. 
    
    Protections are needed, if for nothing else than for peace of mind.
    Since the physical world is the most dense it seems reasonable to
    think that other non-physical energy organizations are in the less
    dense, more spectral realm; the realm of ghosts, of spirits, yes,
    even of the Gods themselves.
    
    

    Re .7 (Jay):
    
>The rattlesnake is *indeed* part of 'All-that-is'. While I think you
>should respect the rattlesnake, there is no need to fear it.
 
    I perhaps overstated the case to make my point.  Actually, I don't
    _fear_ rattlesnakes (nor spitting cobras, coral snakes, anacondas,
    or boomslangs), but I treat them with circumspection.  Point is,
    the idea of protections is to guard one against harm (I don't _fear_
    a circular saw, but I might wear protective goggles while operating
    one, depending on circumstances).
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.